TFX Scandal and the JFK assassination

[Ron Bulman]

55 minutes ago, Robert Montenegro said:

Has anyone on this forum looked into Richard Mervin Bissell Jr.'s connections to the "Tactical Fighter Experimental" program?

The former Deputy Director for Plans of the Central Intelligence Agency was an executive comptroller for the United Aircraft Corporation sometime in early 1964.

And as I understand it, United Aircraft Corporation (later known as United Technologies Corporation, now called Raytheon Technologies Corporation), oversaw the procurement of billions of dollars worth of strategic materials for the manufacturing of the "Pratt & Whitney TF30"  turbofan engine for Ling-Temco-Vought's "A-7 Corsair II" and the General Dynamics F-111 Aardvark.

I don't imagine having the the Central Intelligence Agency's former chief of covert action and the commander of the "Bay Of Pigs" Invasion (Operation Zapata) as a central money-man to the development of the F-111 Aardvark and the A-7 Corsair II (aircraft that would end up costing the US taxpayers forty billion dollars to manufacture) would be suspicious to anybody on this forum.

Incidentally, since a couple people on this forum contacted me about my deleting all of my posts, I was threatened by Ms. Leslie Sharp (a person who was working with my late friend H.P. "Hank" Albarelli on his book "Coup In Dallas") that she would hit me with a "cease and desist" lawsuit if I said anything more about the conversations that I had Hank Albarelli about his research and his book.

I am only coming forward now, because I have sought legal counsel of my own on the matter and am now aware of my legal rights, such as they are.

I am sorry to the other researchers on this forum, like Paul Brancato and Rob Couteau who were following my posts on the "NATO's Secret Armies, Operation Gladio and JFK" post started by James DiEugenio.

I wish I could recover and put back the posts I deleted.

Perhaps Anthony Thorne could help me, since he put Leslie Sharp in contact with me?

Hah!

 

I've no dog in this hunt, but...  If your revealing information in the forthcoming book I could see how Leslie might be a little peeved.  If she spent several months, a year or two (?) helping him finish (largely transcribing ?) his final say on what he knew I'd think she, like you had become his friend, and she would be invested in seeing his work published in book form.  As opposed to blurbs leaked on an internet forum.  I've only followed this from afar and am probably way out of the loop on it all.  I only comment because of having conversed with Leslie on jfkfacts.  She was knowledgeable, courteous and insightful there.  I believe she transcribed some hard to read pages of a document for Jeff there voluntarily once.

[Robert Montenegro]

3 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

If your revealing information in the forthcoming book I could see how Leslie might be a little peeved. 

That is completely understandable.

However, I did not, according to her own line of reasoning, reveal anything about Hank's book. In fact, she said to me that I and Hank's private conversations had very little to do with the final conclusions of his book.

In any case, I am back on the forum, with some legal counsel to back me up.

 

[Calvin Ye]

The book Empire of High Finance stated that Wall Street firm Lehman Brother has financial interest in General Dynamics. The book Dollars and Sense of Disarmament stated that General Dynamic's board consists 50 percent of ex-military men, AEC, Department of Defense officials and military scientists. The book also pointed that its large stockholders is members or clients of Lehman Brothers, which is investment bankers.

[Calvin Ye]

On 12/4/2011 at 5:12 PM, Jim Phelps said:

I do think the key word is General Dynamics was close to bankrupt, and it was a critical US national security industry associated with subs and fighter planes.

General Dynamics started life as Electric Boat, or submaines, they then pick up a Canadian aircraft company followed by the Texas aircraft company associated with old WWII production plants.

The US Mil/Ind Network will find ways to keep various weapons industries alive in the interests of national security. So, they'll pump money with political deals into a high cost overrun F-111 project to keep General Dynamics afloat economically. Then crank up the little Vietnam War to keep feeding the critical national defense weapons systems and developements. US national security in the Pentagon vision has to have a weapons keep alive effort that comes from these various continual wars.

It is interesting to watch the General Dynamics dealings with Netherlands to pull in the Netherland's Fokker aircraft to make parts for the F-16 fighter for the Netherlands. Then the efforts of Lockheed to bribe Netherland's Bernhard on other Texas aircraft contracts.

Then keep in mind that LHO and de Mohrenschildt's big nickname for General Walker is General Fokker.

The book Empire of High Finance stated that Wall Street firm Lehman Brother has financial interest in General Dynamics. The book Dollars and Sense of Disarmament stated that General Dynamic's board consists 50 percent of ex-military men, AEC, Department of Defense officials and military scientists. The book also pointed that its large stockholders is members or clients of Lehman Brothers, which is investment bankers.

[Calvin Ye]

On 3/17/2012 at 5:44 PM, William Kelly said:

Clark Mollenhoff on LeMay & Zuckert & the TFK Scandal

JFKCountercoup2: LeMay & Zuckert

From The Pentagon –Politics, Profits and Plunder by Clark R. Mollenhoff. (Pinnacle Books, NY,1967) n January, President Eisenhower had submitted a proposed Defense Department budge for fiscal 1962 of $41.8 billion. Within two months, President Kennedy and McNamara had added nearly $2 billion to the request to provide more money for Polaris-armed submarines, increase research in nonnuclear weapons for limited wars and boost personnel in the Army. General Maxwell Taylor became the special military representative of the President, and took part in planning the defense budge, which soon jumped to $46.7 billion –nearly $5 billion over President Eisenhower's initial request for fiscal 1962.

While much of the activity was aimed at budge boosting, some budget slicing was taking place. McNamara ended the nuclear plane program, and moved into a highly sensitive area by recommending that the development funds for the B-70 be cut from $358 million to $220 million.

The controversy this created with General Curtis E. LeMay, the Air Force Chief of Staff, was only a forerunner of the long and bitter dispute that was to surround the manned bomber. In that first year ofMcNamara's reign as Defense chief, the House took the suggestion of general LeMay and boosted the B-70 funds from $220 million to $525 million. And when the whole defense appropriations was passed by Congress, it included $400 million for the B-70 program, and $515 more for the B-58 and B-52 programs.

McNamara retaliated by declaring he would defy the wishes of Congress and not spend the additional funds; it was his first real clash with the Air Force enthusiasts in Congress and with General LeMay.

If Robert S. McNamara was lacking in political knowledge,the same could not have been said about the man President Kennedy named as Deputy Defense Secretary. The man was Roswell Leavitt Gilpatrick, a suave New York lawyer with an Ivy League background and yearsof experience in dealing with the military-industrial complex. Like McNamara, was graduated Phi Beta Kappa, but unlike McNamara, he was schooled in the operations and politics of government.

Following graduation from Yale College in 1928 and Yale Law Schoolin 1931, Gilpatrick became a partner in the eminent New York law firm of Cravath, de Gersdorff, Swaine &Wood. He left the first briefly to serve, from 1951 to 1953, as Under Secretaryof the Air Force. He returned to law practice in 1953, represented many bigdefense contractors, became active in Democratic politics, and served aschairman of the board of trustees of the Aerospace Corporation established bythe Air Force during the Eisenhower Administration to conduct studies inconnection with the major missile programs.

Gilpatrick's Washingtonconnections served him well. In 1958, one of his former Washingtonassociates, Frank Pace, asked him to handle some rather extensive legal workfor the General Dynamics Corporation, which Pace then headed. Pace had servedas Secretary of the Army in the Truman Administration, and had moved out ofhigh government office into a lucrative job with this large defense contractor.His experience as a lawyer for general Dynamics from 1958 to 1961 was only onesegment of the background that made Gilpatrick an important senior partner inthe law firm that by 1961 had become Cravath, Swaine & Moore.

When Gilpatrick became the number two man in the DefenseDepartment in January, 1961, he was regarded as the perfect type to team withMcNamara. Smooth and knowledgeable in the ways of the big defense contractors,he knew the men in Congress who counted where Defense Department problems wereconcerned. The "Bob and Roz" team appeared to be one of the most effectivecombinations created by the Kennedy administration. If McNamara dealtabrasively with the ordinary Senator or Congressman, Roz Gilpatrick with hispersuasive manner could smooth things over. He and his attractive wife gavewonderful parties to cultivate members of the Armed Services and Appropriationscommittees of the Senate and House. He also made an effort to keep a closerelationship with his old friend Senator Stuart Symington, the Missourian whohad been the first Air Force Secretary and who held an important post as amember of the Senate Armed Services Committee.

Other members of the top-level Pentagon team appointed byPresident Kennedy were Elvis J. Stahr, Jr., Secretary of the Army; John B.Connally, Jr., Secretary of the Navy; Eugene M. Zuckert, Secretary of the AirForce; General Lyman Lemnitzer, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff; GeneralCurtis LeMay, Air Force Chief of Staff; and Admiral George Anderson, Chief ofNaval Operations. Probably the most significant appointment was that of GeneralMaxwell D. Taylor as a special military representative of the President at theWhite House – a prelude to moving him to the Pentagon as Chairman of the JointChiefs of Staff. Taylor, strong dissenter from the massive-retaliation theoriesof the Eisenhower Administration, was to be a major figure in new shifts indefense posture.

Stahr, a Rhodes Scholar and lawyer with a distinguishedrecord in the infantry during World War II, seemed most in line with theKennedy pattern….

The name of John Connally was associated closely with that of Vice PresidentLyndon B. Johnson, and there was no doubt the Fort Worthlawyer owed his appointment as Navy Secretary to his Texaspolitical connection with Johnson. The handsome Texan had been linked with theJohnson political fortunes from the earliest days, and had even riskedinfuriating the Kennedys at the 1960 Democratic National convention byenthusiastically pushing Johnson's nomination. He further roused their ire byquestioning the physical condition of the then-candidate John Kennedy.Representing the big oil interests of Texasmillionaire Sid Richardson had mad Connally a wealthy man, but he possessed theflexibility to adapt to the pattern of the Ivy League or the Boston Irish.

From the start the McNamara Pentagon was stacked withJohnson men. Cyrus R. Vance, a long-time Johnson protégé, served as generalcounsel for the Department, later became Secretary of the Army and finally wasnamed Deputy Defense Secretary. Solis Horwitz, another Johnson man, wasdirector of organizational and management planning in the Defense Departmentgeneral counsel's office and was later elevated to the job of AssistantSecretary of Defense for Administration. The Assistant Secretary of Navy wasKenneth E. BeLieu, who had been staff director of Johnson's Senate PreparednessSubcommittee a few years earlier.

When Connally resigned as Navy Secretary to run hissuccessful campaign for Governor of Texas, another Johnson man moved into theNavy Secretary post – Fred Korth, a Fort Worth bank president who had beendeputy counselor and Assistant Secretary of the Army during the last two yearsof the Truman Administration.

Air Force Secretary Zuckert, a graduate of the Yale Law School,had been an assistant professor and assistant dean of the Harvard GraduateSchool of Business administration when McNamara served on the faculty. Zuckerthad used his talents in law and business administration on a number ofgovernment jobs, including a term as Assistant Secretary of the Air Force from1947 to 1952, and as a Truman appointee to the Atomic Energy Commission in aterm that ran from 1952 to 1054.

General Lemnitzer, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff,was a holdover, as was General Decker, the Army Chief of Staff. The new man onthe Joint Chiefs of Staff were General LeMay, who had succeeded General ThomasD. White as Air Force Chief of Staff, and Admiral Anderson, who succeededAdmiral Arleigh Burke as Chief of Naval Operations. General LeMay and AdmiralAnderson were expected to be McNamara team men, who would be placated by biggerDefense Department budgets planned by the Kennedy Administration.

Chapter 28 - TheManned Bomber Fuss

General Curtis LeMay and other top Air Force generalsaccepted the fact that the ballistic missiles with nuclear warheads wouldeventually replace the manned bomber as the major deterrent to Communistaggression. But in the early 1960's, the Air Force Chief of Staff and hissupporters in the Pentagon and in Congress were not willing to accept the viewthat the missiles could be accepted as the ultimate weapons system, and that itwas safe to start a phase out the manned bombers. Major controversy was to ragefor years over the cuts that Defense Secretary Robert S. McNamara insisted inmaking in the manned-bomber program.

Defense Secretary McNamara's dispute with General LeMay andCongress centered on two major areas. First, he wanted to cut back the budgetfor new B-52 and B-58 manned bombers by as much as $500,000,000 a year on thetheory that the Strategic Air Command was strong enough to serve as a deterrentforce until the missiles could take their place. Second, he was highlyskeptical of the need for proceeding with plans for the expensive 2000-miles-anhour B-70, which was planned as the follow-up bomber to take the place of theB-52 and the B-58. He saw no sense in proceeding with the B-70, and in his firstyear proposed cutting the B-70 funds from $385 million to $220 million….

The investigation of the Aerospace Corporation demonstratedthat the establishment of a nonprofit corporation to handle research andmanagement jobs for the Pentagon could result in some of the same abuses thathad been found to exist when big business corporations were given too free ahand with the tax money….

General LeMay, as the Air Force Chief of Staff, was theleading opponent of McNamara's plans to phase out manned bombers and he had theprestige with Congress to make his views count….A bomber could perform manymissions a guided missile could not….(He) declared that even if the missile wasthe ultimate weapon of the future, it was still far from fully developed. Hedeclared it was just plain foolhardy to base national defense plans on a systemthat had not been fully tested….

The House committee declared that the purpose of theextensive report was to make it clear exactly what it meant authorizing $491million for the RS-70 system.

"The Secretary of the Air Force (Zuckert), as an official ofthe executive branch, is directed, ordered, mandated, and required to utilizethe full amount of the $491 million," the House members declared…The braveposition of the House Armed Services Committee did not last for long. PresidentKennedy asked Chairman Vinson to come to the White House, and prevailed uponthe aging committee chairman to drop the word "direct" and to substitute"authorize." In exchange, President Kennedy promised that the DefenseDepartment would "restudy" the whole program of the RS-70….

…Secretary of Defense McNamara, by persistent rejection ofthe RS-70 program, managed to downgrade it and kill it off in the face of themost stubborn opposition from General LeMay…President Johnson extended GeneralLeMay's term as Air Force Chief of Staff for another year, which prevented theblunt-talking champion of the manned bomber from becoming involved in the 1964political campaign. When LeMay retired as Air Force Chief of Staff in January,1965, he had been unable to change McNamara's plans to phase out the mannedbombers….The Defense Secretary gave the military men no choice; they acceptedthe FB-111 bomber as better than no follow-on bomber at all.

The FB-111, a bomber version of the controversial TFXfighter, had never been intended to be used as a long-range bomber. It lackedrange, load carrying capacity and general performance characteristics needed inany follow-on replacement for the B-58 bombers…

Chapter 29 – THE CONTROVERSIAL TFX

The multibillion dollar TFB warplane contract was the mostcoveted prize the Pentagon ever dangled before bidders. Government spending, itwas estimated, would exceed $6.5 billion – the largest contract for militaryplanes in the nation's history. The program was planned to include more than1,700 planes for the Navy and Air Force. Such a contract could mean prosperityfor an entire state, and the competition was intense.

Early in 1962, the rivalry for the TFXcontract narrowed down to two major firms. The Boeing Company with headquartersin Seatle, Washington,proposed to build the plane at its plant in Wichita, Kansas. The General Dynamics Corporation'sConvair Division, in Fort Worth, Texas,cooperating with the Grumman Engineering Company of Bethpage, New York, planned to build the Air Forceversion in Texas and the Navyversion in New York…Politicallythe Texas-New York combination backing General Dynamics and Grummanhad a distinct advantage. Texaselectoral votes (24) and New Yorkelectoral votes (45) went to Kennedy in 1960, while Washington'snine electoral votes and the eight Kansasvotes had gone to Republican candidate, Richard Nixon.

Late in the summer of 1962, persistent rumors of Texaspolitical pressure on the TFX contract cameto Senator Jackson. Calling Deputy Defense Secretary Roswell Gilpatrick, hetold him he had heard General Dynamics was certain to receive the contract.Gilpatrick assured him there was nothing to it and that the decision would bemade "strictly on the merits."

…On November 24, 1962, the blow fell with the Pentagon's announcement that the TFXcontract would be awarded to General Dynamics…Scoop Jackson rejected the reportthat cost-conscious McNamara would take the second-best plane and pay more forit. He asked Sen. John L. McClellan, chairman of the Permanent Subcommittee onInvestigations, to examine the TFX contract.

The McClellan subcommittee investigators questionedwitnesses, examined documents and established: 1) The four service evaluationdid favor to Boeing, 2) The Boeing price was $100 million lower on the firstphase of the contract, and it might be $415 million lower on the total job, 3)The Pentagon Source Selection Board, composed of top generals and admirals, wasunanimous in its finding that the Boeing plane would be cheaper and better, 4)The only document at the Pentagon that supported the General Dynamics plane wasa five-page memorandum of justification, dated November 21, 1062. It was signedby McNamara; Eugene Zuckert, Secretary of the Air Force; and Fred Korth,Secretary of the Navy. (Gilpatrick also agreed with the award, but hissignature was not necessary because McNamara had signed.)

This document was loaded with errors, according to theinvestigators from the McClellan subcommittee…It was appalling to learn thatMcNamara's decision to award the contract to General Dynamics could result inwasting $100 million to $415 million on a second-best plane. Republicansderisively dubbed the plane the "LBJ" sine it appeared to have beenperemptorily awarded to Texas….

General Curtis E. LeMay, the Air Force Chief of Staff,testified that he was not consulted prior to McNamara's decision to overrulethe Source Selection Board.

"I thought we had such a clear cut and unanimous opinion allup and down the line that I was completely surprised at the decision," the AirForce Chief declared.

"Did any group, any authority at any level from you down tothe evaluation group ever recommend the General Dynamics plane?" McClellanasked.

"No, sir," LeMay answered. In all hisexperience he was unable to recall a single instance where the decision of theservice selection board had been rejected by a civilian secretary….

In the Pentagon, Deputy Secretary of Defense RoswellGilpatrick was given the job of implementing the new, tough code ofethics….Ironically, Deputy Defense Secretary Gilpatrick was the firsthigh-ranking Administration official to come under sharp congressionalcriticism in connection with the new code of ethics. The TFXwarplane contract investigation raised questions of the "conflicts of interest"problem against Gilpatrick and also against Navy Secretary Fred Korth…

From 1958 to January, 1961 Gilpatrick was a lawyer for theGeneral Dynamics Corporation…New money was needed to keep General Dynamicsmoving, and Roswell Gilpatrick had a major role in the merger between GeneralDynamics and Material Services Corporation, a Chicago construction firmcontrolled by Colonel Henry Crown, an influential Democratic political figure.Frank Pace and other high officials were Gilpatrick's personal friends, and theNew York lawyer had an office inthe General Dynamic's headquarters….

The difficulty of Gilpatrick's personal role in the TFXaffair certainly made it unlikely that he would be enforcing the new code ofethics on such others as Navy Secretary Fred Korth, who had a similar problem.

Korth, a Fort Worth attorney and bank president, became NavySecretary in January, 1962. He succeeded John Connally, another Fort Worth lawyer who resigned to seek the Democraticgubernatorial nomination in Texas.Fred Korth was an enthusiastic booster of his home town and of the GeneralDynamics firm, which had the huge Convair plant in Fort Worth….and the General Dynamics Corporation was one ofthe best customers of Kroth's Continental National Bank of Fort Worth.

Only three months before Korth became Navy secretary, he hadgiven his personal approval to a $400,000 loan from the Continental NationalBank to the General Dynamics Corporation….When it came time for Korth to make adecision on the TFX contract, the NavySecretary overruled the recommendations of the top admirals and suggested theDefense Secretary aware the contact to General Dynamics….

The book Empire of High Finance stated that Wall Street firm Lehman Brother has financial interest in General Dynamics. The book Dollars and Sense of Disarmament stated that General Dynamic's board consists 50 percent of ex-military men, AEC, Department of Defense officials and military scientists. The book also pointed that its large stockholders is members or clients of Lehman Brothers, which is investment bankers.

[James DiEugenio]

Please,  Boeing lost the fly off.  This is something that no on ever mentioned until I did the research on it.

Secondly, General Dynamics model had. a much higher ratio of interchangeable parts than did Boeing, and it was not even close. Which was the whole purpose of the project: to build one plane for two branches of the service. McNamara concluded that Boeing would essentially be building two different planes and was lying about the cost. And he had secretly commissioned a secret report on that issue. 

Before my article came out, no one, and I mean no one, had fingered Henry Jackson as the bad guy behind all of this.  Which is amazing. Since he was known as the senator from Boeing. And Jackson was really the godfather of the Neocon movement, which was the antithesis of what Kennedy stood for. Please read if you have not.

https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/was-the-tfx-case-a-scandal

[Calvin Ye]

1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

Please,  Boeing lost the fly off.  This is something that no on ever mentioned until I did the research on it.

Secondly, General Dynamics model had. a much higher ratio of interchangeable parts than did Boeing, and it was not even close. Which was the whole purpose of the project: to build one plane for two branches of the service. McNamara concluded that Boeing would essentially be building two different planes and was lying about the cost. And he had secretly commissioned a secret report on that issue. 

Before my article came out, no one, and I mean no one, had fingered Henry Jackson as the bad guy behind all of this.  Which is amazing. Since he was known as the senator from Boeing. And Jackson was really the godfather of the Neocon movement, which was the antithesis of what Kennedy stood for. Please read if you have not.

https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/was-the-tfx-case-a-scandal

Have you read the book The empire of high finance?

https://www.marxists.org/subject/economy/authors/perlo/1957/empire-high-finance.pdf

Edited April 10, 2021 by Calvin Ye

[James DiEugenio]

Calvin, I just asked you to read a relatively brief article on the whole F-111 case.  That article contains all kinds of information that had not been available before, since I did some real research on that case.

You then ask me to read a whole book just to prove that some Wall Street firm had an interest in General Dynamics?

That is not what the whole F-111 case was about. It was about McNamara's attempt to contain Pentagon spending by unifying certain weapons systems. And also to make it align itself with its own testing results. Third, not to be enthralled by  the promise of high performance and explosive power that costs too much and goes beyond the requirements of the original design.  That is what McNamara was trying to do here.  He was trying to buck an entrenched system of corruption and waste.

That is a story that has been quashed by the likes of Drew Pearson.  Who actually wrote that he knew what LBJ was thinking about this. Drew never explained  how he knew that.

Edited April 10, 2021 by James DiEugenio

[Richard Booth]

1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

Third, not to be enthralled by  the promise of high performance and explosive power that costs too much and goes beyond the requirements of the original design.  That is what McNamara was trying to do here.  He was trying to buck an entrenched system of corruption and waste.

The F-35 is a modern example of all these things: promises of high performance and explosive power that costs too much and goes beyond the requirements of the design... the very definition of boondoggle and a "lemon." The wikipedia entry for the F-35 accurately says that "the program has drawn much scrutiny and criticism for its unprecedented size, complexity, ballooning costs, and much-delayed deliveries, with numerous technical flaws still being corrected. The acquisition strategy of concurrent production of the aircraft while it was still in development and testing led to expensive design changes and retrofits"

That entrenched system of corruption and waste is sadly still in-place and the F-35 is a great example of having too many cooks in the kitchen.

Now imagine if the amount of money wasted on this piece of dooky were spent on something like healthcare for Americans. 

Sufficient healthcare and dental care for our people, I think, constitutes national security. An argument could be made for that. How many millions of deaths could be prevented, lives extended, and quality of life extended if we had basic health care like Canadians or British people do, where a poor person can actually afford dental care? 

I guess I should get off my high horse, lest I be labeled a communist for wanting to afford dental care, or wanting to see our seniors taken care of in the golden years of their lives...

[James DiEugenio]

The F 35 turned into a monstrosity.

What was the purpose of that plane?

Which sucked up 1.9 trillion.  And now will probably never fly.  Its like a grotesque symbol of the Pentagon gone mad.

[Richard Booth]

9 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

The F 35 turned into a monstrosity.

What was the purpose of that plane?

Which sucked up 1.9 trillion.  And now will probably never fly.  Its like a grotesque symbol of the Pentagon gone mad.

From what I can tell the F-35 was supposed to be a replacement for the F22 Raptor and the F15 Strike Eagle. 

Sad thing is the F-22 Raptor is superior and need not be replaced by this thing. The Russian's Sukhoia PAK-FA is also superior.

Meanwhile we're stuck with this POS F-35 and it's supposed to be our primary fighter and ground strike aircraft for the next 50 years... 

[Richard Booth]

The F-35 is a death-trap ... it has a problem whereby toxic fumes are vented into the cabin which can give pilots cancer or kill them. 

Meanwhile, if a pilot has to eject, that will snap his neck.

https://www.rt.com/news/317758-f35-ejection-seat-neck/

[James DiEugenio]

BTW if you read my article on the F-111, the pilots did not even want to phase it out for the Strike Eagle.

They were perfectly happy with the plane, and its variants, as was.  

But they went ahead with the Strike Eagle anyway and they want to phase that out for the F 35.

And the F 35 has turned into a boondoggle.

[Richard Booth]

54 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

BTW if you read my article on the F-111, the pilots did not even want to phase it out for the Strike Eagle.

They were perfectly happy with the plane, and its variants, as was.  

But they went ahead with the Strike Eagle anyway and they want to phase that out for the F 35.

And the F 35 has turned into a boondoggle.

Your article is very correct about the F-111 being an exceptional aircraft. I've seen pilots talk about it, it was actually used in Desert Storm and one of it's pilots can be seen talking about that on the History channel program Dogfights.

In one episode, there is a pilot talking about flying an F-111 variant (EF-111A Raven) that featured no offensive weapons--it was flying in an ELINT / signals / electronic warfare role. 

Anyhow, this pilot was engaged by Iraqi pilots flying Mirages outfitted with plenty of weapons and he managed to win in a dogfight by nature of the plane's maneuverability. He actually was able to cause pilots giving chase to crash their aircraft.

You've got a very good pilot -- and a very good aircraft -- to win a dogfight without any weapons, using only maneuverability to your advantage. I guess this was the only confirmed kill by an F-111 pilot, you can see more about that here:

The same can't be said for the F-35.  It is outclassed and outperformed by Sukhoi and MiG airframes from previous generations. 

Edited April 10, 2021 by Richard Booth

[James DiEugenio]

What makes that remarkable is that the Mirage is a fighter attack plane.

The F 111 is a fighter bomber. 

It was really something with those decoy flares to misguide those heat seeking missiles.

And to go to just a thousand feet?