James Worrell: Fact or Fiction?

[Duke Lane]

... As for David Atlee Phillips under arrest in Fort Worth that morning, I'd like to hear more about that, though I don't believe it just because you said it happened.

I didn't say it did; I think it was Robert Morrow in 1990 or thereabouts, citing Gary Shaw, et al., in an earlier book. Google "Cowtown Connection;" you'll find it in a dozen places. The whole story is there, along with some sidebars (e.g., "Tom Tilson Tells Tall Tales").

[David Josephs]

On 1/31/2013 at 9:11 PM, Duke Lane said:

David, what are we looking at? Can you post a larger or full-sized image of the inset photo? What is it, what is it looking at, and what time is it? Remember that Worrell was gone by the third shot; he heard two after he started running, he said. The key time(s) to find him would be before any shots were fired, particularly as the motorcade was moving north along Houston.

Remember, too, that he was there for an hour or longer, he said, before the parade got there (even though AF1 hadn't landed even an hour before JFK got to DP, and Dicky had to get from Love Field (where he'd seen the President) to DP by bus in the interim.

This is Betzner's 2nd photo as the limo turns the corner... possbily at or just before the first shot...

the person in question is just above the windshield...

Yet from Worrell's statement he seems to have been closer to the building... maybe one of the men to the left of the man in the foreground??

Just looks to me the one I pointed out before is Tall, and dressed similiarly to the other photo of him...

DJ

Edited May 23, 2017 by David Josephs

[David Josephs]

Mr. WORRELL - Well, I got up about, well, I got up at my usual time, about 6:30. I was going to go to school that day but I decided to go see the President and my mother left about 7:30, and my sister left about a quarter of 8. I left about 8, and hitchhiked down to Love Field and got there. It took me quite a while to get there, about 9, and just messed around there until the President come in, whatever time that was. And then I didn't get to see him good at all. So I caught a bus and went over, went downtown and I just, I don't know, happened to pick that place at the Depository, and I stood at the corner of Elm and Houston.

Mr. SPECTER - Did you leave Love Field before the President did?

Mr. WORRELL - Oh, yes.

Mr. SPECTER - Why did you happen to leave Love Field before he left?

Mr. WORRELL - Well, so I could see him better.

Mr. SPECTER - Couldn't you get a good view of him a Love Field?

Mr. WORRELL - No, I just saw him get off the plane and I figured that I wasn't going to see him good so I was going to get a better place to see him.

Mr. SPECTER - How did you travel from Love Field to Elm and Houston?

Mr. WORRELL - Bus. No, no; I just traveled so far on the bus. I went down to Elm, and took a buds from there. I went down as far as, I don't know where that bus stops, anyway, I got close to there and I walked the rest of the way.

Mr. SPECTER - What time, to the best of your recollection, did you arrive at the intersection of Elm and Houston?

Mr. WORRELL - Well, about 10, 10:30, 10:45, something around there. There weren't many people standing around there then.

Mr. SPECTER - Well about how long before the Presidential motorcade came to Elm and Houston did you get there?

Mr. WORRELL - An hour; an hour and a half.

Mr. SPECTER - Are you sure you were at Love Field when the President arrived there?

Mr. WORRELL - Oh yes.

Yet on the other side of that coin... this is simply not possible... since the plane does not arrive until well after 11am.

So either he has his times wrong (which months after the fact you'd think he would have given the timing a LITTLE thought...)

Or he simply wanted a little limelight

DJ

[David Josephs]

And the Bell film of that corner before the limo turns...

Another look at the cardigan man and he seems too fat....

[Duke Lane]

Thanks for that, David.

Insofar as the images go, another question to ask is whether an individual in question could look "straight up," tilting his head back as I recall Worrell stated, and see a gun sticking out of any window. Your "Cardigan Man" is too far from the building and not directly under any window to do that.

Dicky didn't make any claims as to what he'd been wearing, and we've got no reason (as yet) to think that a 20-year-old high school senior in a public school wore a white shirt and tie to school, particularly on a day that he skipped school. Not unheard of, I suppose, but we needn't presume that his "posed" photo prior to going to Washington was his normal attire.

As to the times, yes, he could simply have been mistaken ... other than that he had to be able to take a bus - with its multiple and myriad stops and potential delays for the parade downtown - from Love Field to downtown from sometime after AF1 landed (11:40-ish) with enough time to get from its closest downtown stop to DP to the TSBD. The schedules I was able to come up with only barely allow that, and then only if, for example, a driver stuck around at LF to watch AF1 (he couldn't have actually seen POTUS) from the terminal access road. Absent that, the bus most likely able to have gotten him there on time (again presuming no delays downtown) would already have left.

Possible? Yes ... and the question that one actually did would be nailed by Worrell's appearance in one of those images, just like Brennan being where he is, and said he was, is. A tall young man beneath TSBD6SE almost directly against the building? Not very helpful.

So if Worrell isn't or wasn't there, then his observations go out the window. He didn't hear any number of shots, he didn't run a hundred yards or more (i.e., half of a city block by his own description), and he didn't see anyone run out of the side of the TSBD, just like James Romack said - vehemently! - that he didn't.

If he was there but managed to escape the notice of the camera lens, then we have a problem with other people's stories, particularly about more than one man running from the TSBD, into a Rambler or around the back of the building, or walking determinedly but quickly away south on Houston in a brown suit and hat (to get in a Rambler that was already parked where that man had already been, i.e., he walked right past the Rambler he got into several blocks away, if that makes sense).

For that matter, we don't see said Rambler on Houston to the right of the TSBD in the photo either.

I think the truth of the matter is that he got caught skipping school (at 20, he'd have been noticeably absent) and told his mother a story that would have excused him. But she got concerned, wanted to relay his story to the cops (the responsible thing to do), and Dicky got locked into a story that grew beyond his control, known to all his friends and family, and one he couldn't rightly fly to Washington simply to recant. The tangled web.

And yes, I suspect he enjoyed the limelight as well.

But I'm happy to be proven wrong ....

[Josh Cron]

Duke, just curious, what do you make of this?

A Record from Mary Ferrell's Database

Record: SUGGS, AUBREY F.

Sources: Arch P. Kimbrough interview

Mary's Comments: Was standing, with Worrell, on west curb of Houston, 25' north of Main. Witnessed assassination. (He worked for Kimbrough)

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/marysdb/showRec.do?mode=searchResult&id=9225

Edited May 7, 2013 by Josh Cron

[David Josephs]

Here is a gif I did of the Bell corner turn for a discussion about Truly's comment regarding the limo almost hitting the curb...

Seems to me we SHOULD see Worrell somewhere... especially given where he marks the photo... 'cept he's not there....

unless he's the tall guy directly in the middle of that wall sculpture.

I also posted the frames used to create the gif... they are MUCH larger and may help in finding him... or showing he's not really there.

DJ

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh16/html/WH_Vol16_0491a.htm

Mr. SPECTER - Now take a look at that picture and tell us where you were standing - and I will give you a pencil so you can mark it on that picture itself - at the time the Presidential motorcade came by. Mark it with an "X," if you would, just exactly where were you standing, as best you can recollect it, at this moment, at the time the President went by.
Mr. WORRELL - Right underneath that window right there.
Mr. SPECTER - Now, how close were you standing to this building which I will ask you to identify; first of all, what building is that?
Mr. WORRELL - That is the Texas Depository.
Mr. SPECTER - All right. Now how close to that building were you standing?
Mr. WORRELL - I was, I don't know, 4 or 5 feet out from it.
Mr. SPECTER - Were you standing with your face to the building, with your back to the building, or how?
Mr. WORRELL - My back was to the building.
Mr. SPECTER - I show you a photograph which has been identified as Commission Exhibit 360 and I will ask you if you can identify what that building is?
Mr. WORRELL - That is the Depository.
Mr. SPECTER - All right. Now on this picture will you again, with an "X," mark where you were standing as closely as you can recollect it.
Mr. WORRELL - That car is in the way.
Mr. SPECTER - All right. Put a mark then right above where the car is, indicating where you were standing on the sidewalk near that building.
(Witness marking.)

Edited May 23, 2017 by David Josephs

[Josh Cron]

I tried tracking down Aubrey Suggs, figuring if he was a friend of Worrell's that he would have been relatively young at the time of the assassination.

He appears to have passed away in June of 1973 at the age of 53. Cause of death unknown to me at this time.

[Guest]

Thanks to Malcolm Blunt

 

[Ron Bulman]

Bumping this thread on it's own merits in relation to the current one on the TSBD rear exit possibilities.  Duke Lane started a four part series on Worrell in 3/06 the abandoned it until 1/13 concluding none of his testimony holds up, he's in no photos, he didn't witness a thing.  He speculates Worrell got caught playing hooky, lied to mom who called the cops about his story, then he couldn't stop.  Bill Kelly still believed Worrell.  David Joseph seemed unconvinced though it Might be him in a photograph.  I never realized Worrell was a 20 year old senior in high school.

Edited February 20, 2021 by Ron Bulman

[Ron Bulman]

On 2/19/2021 at 7:35 PM, Ron Bulman said:

Bumping this thread on it's own merits in relation to the current one on the TSBD rear exit possibilities.  Duke Lane started a four part series on Worrell in 3/06 the abandoned it until 1/13 concluding none of his testimony holds up, he's in no photos, he didn't witness a thing.  He speculates Worrell got caught playing hooky, lied to mom who called the cops about his story, then he couldn't stop.  Bill Kelly still believed Worrell.  David Joseph seemed unconvinced though it Might be him in a photograph.  I never realized Worrell was a 20 year old senior in high school.

Reading Worrell's testimony.  He said he skipped school to watch the assassination.  Then under further questioning he admits he quit going to school in October.

[John Butler]

On 1/29/2013 at 12:40 PM, Duke Lane said:

No, it's NOT worth noting ... if he wasn't there.

According to his own description of where he was standing, he is not in any photograph or movie of the front of the TSBD.

Until someone can place him there photographically, then it doesn't matter a whit about what he says occurred in DP.

Nothing else about his story holds up either. He didn't witness a thing, so sorry to say.

James Worrell’s location

James Worrell said where he was located in his Warren Commission testimony when asked Arlen Specter:

CE 360 shows the location of the vehicle talked about by Specter and Worrell.  The X puts him in the middle of the window:

A crop and mag of this photo shows this in a clearer light:

The Betzner photo shows the area better than other photos or frames.  Here is a crop and mag of Betzner:

This Betzner crop is different from other depictions of this area.  More in a moment.

Just as an aside this photo by Betzner has two perhaps three people taking photos of the limousine.  Where are their photos?  Who are they?

In this crop the man with the western hat is out of place according to other media when the p. limo passes by:

One has to count the glass blocks in the window to see that the man in the hat is standing under the ninth block in a row on the westward side.  In the others he is standing under the 5^th glass block in a row in a western direction.  Towner is hard to see, but the man with the western hat is standing in about the same location as Bell. 

What’s going on?  I haven’t a clue.

In the Betzner photo crop there seems to be mostly women standing in the area marked in CE 360.  There are only two men in the crop that I can identify.  Of these two men the one standing to the east of the man with the western hat might be Worrell.

Conclusions:  From these photo/frames one cannot conclusively identify James Worrell.  But, on the other hand you cannot conclusively said he was not there.

[Steve Thomas]

45 minutes ago, John Butler said:

Conclusions:  From these photo/frames one cannot conclusively identify James Worrell.  But, on the other hand you cannot conclusively said he was not there.

John,

Irrespective of where he drew the X on the Warren Commission Exhibit, if Worrell was there, this would be my guess (From the Bell photo you showed).

I do not know what kind of clothes Worrell was wearing.

Steve Thomas

 

 

[Ron Bulman]

On 1/31/2013 at 4:26 PM, David Josephs said:

Duke... I found the image on the left of Worrell and then tried to find someone similiar in the location he described....

And I found this taller man, with what looks like an open dark cardigan and similair features...

Thoughts?

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/dhjosephs/betzer-Worrell-1_zps381fb01b.jpg

Steve,

You asked in Larry's back door thread if Worrell was black.  Per David Josephs posted photo above that's Worrell in the sweater and tie holding the glasses on the right. 

[John Butler]

On 2/27/2021 at 1:24 PM, Steve Thomas said:

John,

Irrespective of where he drew the X on the Warren Commission Exhibit, if Worrell was there, this would be my guess (From the Bell photo you showed).

I do not know what kind of clothes Worrell was wearing.

Steve Thomas

 

 

Steve T.,

Didn't Worrell in his testimony say he was at one point leaning back against the building?