Igor Vaganov

[James Richards]

Lee,

I believe you are correct that our discussion regarding the Ford was in the 'Suspicious Vehicles' thread. The news clipping I posted said the vehicle was a red convertible heading toward Dallas two days before the assassination. Another clipping (one I will have to find) identified the vehicle as a red Ford convertible.

The incident occured in Sarasota and according to the story, it was speculated that the vehicle may have been a getaway one for Oswald. It doesn't say who did the speculating or why this conclusion was drawn.

I'm also not sure of Vaganov's movements during this time or whether he ever spent any time in Florida.

James

[Lee Forman]

Oops - the style changed in 1961. Here's a comparison to demonstrate the change over time.

As per the Dealey Plaza Echo piece Robert Howard posted - it was a 1962 red Thunderbird convertible - which is consistent with the one I am using in the illustration. The article goes on about a red car parked in the area where Tippit was murdered and in front of Jack Ruby's residence, and Vaganov's having his tires changed 'around the corner.' Around the corner from his residence at the time? Bizarre - Vaganov uses the fact that he paid using a Texaco card for having his tires changed as part of his alibi - the infamous jacket of course was discovered in the parking lot of Ballew's Texaco, there directly behind the Abundant Life Temple [where it was believed that the murder suspect hid out in the basement], on the corner of Jefferson and Crawford.

That's the corner of the temple at left, with what used to be the Texaco station in the distance. There is an alley that goes behind the Temple and all of the houses there - from Crawford to Patton.

Curious. Wonder if the FBI followed up on the receipt?

- lee

Edited July 10, 2006 by Lee Forman

[Lee Forman]

In case anyone may have an interest - here's a view down the alley behind the Temple. The parking lot for the Texaco is to our right. We are standing on Crawford, looking towards Patton. Jefferson is out of sight to the far right, 10th is to our left.

A shot of the front of the Temple on 10th, and the best I could get at the rear.

- lee

[Lee Forman]

Not the best job. Looking up 10th towards the corner of Crawford.

[Josiah Thompson]

You folks sure have put together some interesting information on Vaganov. In the fall of 1966, Vince Salandria and I got interested in him because he came from Philadelphia. I did some digging about him when I was in Dallas that fall. I think I still have a photo of Vaganov driving some beaty queen in a Pennsylvania parade. The car is a Thunderbird convertible. At some time, Agent Lewis of the Media FBI office did a number of interviews with respect to Vaganov and the Kennedy assassination. These interviews were in the initial files opened by the Commission back in the mid-60s. They may have been in CD-5.

The Esquire article states that Benavides told Berendt that the red car had a white top. Vaganov's Thunderbird was a red convertible with a white top. Benavides then added that he was not sure that the car was a Ford. No year is listed for the Thunderbird. However, when Vaganov left Philadelphia for Dallas he still owed $3,309.02 for the vehicle.

[Lee Forman]

Sideview comparison of a 1963 Ford Falcon convertible with a 1962 Thunderbird convertible.

Rearview comparison of a 1962 Thunderbird and a 1961 Ford Falcon.

I can see how one might make a mistake.

[Michael Hogan]

In his thorough, extended article in The Dealey Plaza Echo (thanks Robert Howard), Mark Bridger writes about the Esquire article by John Berendt:

The article also gave insight into the Philadelphia investigation of Vaganov by Salandria, Fonzi, Josiah Thompson (who interviewed many of the Dallas witnesses) and the pseudonymous 'James Henderson' and how Esquire felt the need to write their article, guaranteeing that Vaganov's side of the story would be told.

This was/is an outstanding thread. Thanks to Bill Kelly, Lee Forman, Ed O'Hagan, James Richards, and Robert Howard.

[Ed O'Hagan]

Red dot...... Mack Pate garage

Green dot....El Chico restaurant

Blue dot .... 214 W.Neeley

Think take-out orders, and the fact that names get called out when the order is ready.

You might conclude that T.F. White had seen Marina's husband at the El Chico on more than one occasion a few months earlier.

He got the number of the Plymouth , but described it as being a red Ford Falcon. Then he identified LHO as being the man he saw leaving the parking lot at 2:00 p.m. on the afternoon of the assassination, when LHO was already in police custody. Remember this was at a time when 'two Oswald' tales did not exist., and given that circumstance, he could not have seen LHO, but he could have seen Harvey.... However, absent

awareness of the existence of Harvey at that time, White's story had to be regarded as one of mistaken identity. The real problem was the fact that the license plate number could not be explained away as easily. Nevertheless if he was 'wrong ' about seeing LHO, then switching the blue Plymouth into becoming a red Ford Falcon, added to his lack of credibility. I wonder if 'Mike' told Igor that it was time to get his tires rotated at the Mack Pate garage shortly after the encounter with T.F White. The red Thunderbird was a real problem. It was probably the reason that Vaganov headed back to Philadelphia before sunset on the 23rd and why he parked it in a friend's garage before heading back to Dallas in a Sting Ray.

Both the Plymouth and the red Thunderbird were probably in the parking lot at the same time. Vaganov would have been inside the restaurant picking-up a take out order. Harvey would have been waiting outside, when he spied White, whom he knew would recognize him, so he drove off heading west on West Davis, in the general direction of the Sunset Motel.

In the morning Harvey ('Mike from the CIA) and Vaganov probably breakfasted at the El Chico, and the Plymouth had remained parked there right up to the time White saw it being driven away.

I'll leave off here for the time being, but think ...two tickets at the Top Ten ...two bottles of beer at the Jiffy Store on Industrial Ave. followed by two pieces of peanut brittle.... Vaganov not wearing his good clothes ...Julie Ann Mercer's tale. The trick is to tie the bits and pieces together into a coherent explanation as to what was really going on. Over the years, I have been harping on and on about this aspect . No new information appears likely well into the forseeable future, so we have to resynthesize what we already know. In and of itself that will not provide new information per se , but it sure enough can produce a brand new AWARENESS.

[Lee Forman]

View of the parking lot area where the jacket was recovered - under the 'NL 95' license plate. Not a Thunderbird in sight.

Edited July 11, 2006 by Lee Forman

[William Kelly]

Yo! Tink,

As they say in Philly.

Thanks for chipping in on this thread.

In respect to FBI Agent Lewis of the Media, Pa. FBI office, that is the office that was burglarized by anti-war activists circa 1970, with stolen files revealing the existence of COINTELPRO.

Do you know what became of the original documents that were later leaked to the press, some radical publications, some mainstream, ie. Wasington Post?

Bill Kelly

bkjfk3@yahoo.com

You folks sure have put together some interesting information on Vaganov. In the fall of 1966, Vince Salandria and I got interested in him because he came from Philadelphia. I did some digging about him when I was in Dallas that fall. I think I still have a photo of Vaganov driving some beaty queen in a Pennsylvania parade. The car is a Thunderbird convertible. At some time, Agent Lewis of the Media FBI office did a number of interviews with respect to Vaganov and the Kennedy assassination. These interviews were in the initial files opened by the Commission back in the mid-60s. They may have been in CD-5.

The jacket had a laundry ticket that could not be traced, but the jacket itself was said to have been traced to the Philadelphia Strawbridge & Clothier department store, and somehow affiliated with Vaganov.

Does anyone have any documentation for this report on the source of the jacket?

BK

[Greg Parker]

The jacket had a laundry ticket that could not be traced, but the jacket itself was said to have been traced to the Philadelphia Strawbridge & Clothier department store, and somehow affiliated with Vaganov.

Does anyone have any documentation for this report on the source of the jacket?

BK

Bill, no source on the jacket, but I did make a mental note on the following from the DP Echo article: The following day, 13 November, Vaganov visited the The Alamo Cleaners dry cleaners/laundrette at 116 South Tyler, Oak Cliff to have some shirts laundered and other items dry cleaned. When he returned on Saturday the 16th his demeanor gave the clerk, Mrs Bea Collins, such cause for concern that she later called the FBI...

Ah... but the FBI checked every dry cleaner in Dallas looking for the origin of that laundry tag, so this couldn't have been from The Alamo... could it?

[Robert Howard]

The jacket had a laundry ticket that could not be traced, but the jacket itself was said to have been traced to the Philadelphia Strawbridge & Clothier department store, and somehow affiliated with Vaganov.

Does anyone have any documentation for this report on the source of the jacket?

BK

Bill, no source on the jacket, but I did make a mental note on the following from the DP Echo article: The following day, 13 November, Vaganov visited the The Alamo Cleaners dry cleaners/laundrette at 116 South Tyler, Oak Cliff to have some shirts laundered and other items dry cleaned. When he returned on Saturday the 16th his demeanor gave the clerk, Mrs Bea Collins, such cause for concern that she later called the FBI...

Ah... but the FBI checked every dry cleaner in Dallas looking for the origin of that laundry tag, so this couldn't have been from The Alamo... could it?

From WC CD 728 Radio Transmissions DPD on the day of the assassination.

Appx. 1:54 PM

"Have they got another one?"

"Carrollton PD called Public service and said someone had reported a 1963 Chev Impala, bearing Georgia License 52J1033 had been parked 3 or 4 days near Harry Hines circle - reported vehicle left location traveling North on Harry Hines at high rate of speed - Red, '63 Chev Impala. All we have at this time."

END

[Antti Hynonen]

Robert Howard Posted Today, 12:56 PM

QUOTE(Greg Parker @ Jul 12 2006, 04:33 AM)

QUOTE(William Kelly @ Jul 12 2006, 03:14 AM)

The jacket had a laundry ticket that could not be traced, but the jacket itself was said to have been traced to the Philadelphia Strawbridge & Clothier department store, and somehow affiliated with Vaganov.

Does anyone have any documentation for this report on the source of the jacket?

BK

Bill, no source on the jacket, but I did make a mental note on the following from the DP Echo article: The following day, 13 November, Vaganov visited the The Alamo Cleaners dry cleaners/laundrette at 116 South Tyler, Oak Cliff to have some shirts laundered and other items dry cleaned. When he returned on Saturday the 16th his demeanor gave the clerk, Mrs Bea Collins, such cause for concern that she later called the FBI...

Ah... but the FBI checked every dry cleaner in Dallas looking for the origin of that laundry tag, so this couldn't have been from The Alamo... could it?

From WC CD 728 Radio Transmissions DPD on the day of the assassination.

Appx. 1:54 PM

"Have they got another one?"

"Carrollton PD called Public service and said someone had reported a 1963 Chev Impala, bearing Georgia License 52J1033 had been parked 3 or 4 days near Harry Hines circle - reported vehicle left location traveling North on Harry Hines at high rate of speed - Red, '63 Chev Impala. All we have at this time."

END

Interesting! Milteer and possible GA associates come to mind. I wonder if this particular tag no. was ever traced down. It might be worthwile to know how was "traveling north on Harry Hines at a high rate of speed" Friday afternoon on 11/22/1963.

[Lee Forman]

From WC CD 728 Radio Transmissions DPD on the day of the assassination.

Appx. 1:54 PM

"Have they got another one?"

"Carrollton PD called Public service and said someone had reported a 1963 Chev Impala, bearing Georgia License 52J1033 had been parked 3 or 4 days near Harry Hines circle - reported vehicle left location traveling North on Harry Hines at high rate of speed - Red, '63 Chev Impala. All we have at this time."

END

Interesting! Milteer and possible GA associates come to mind. I wonder if this particular tag no. was ever traced down. It might be worthwile to know how was "traveling north on Harry Hines at a high rate of speed" Friday afternoon on 11/22/1963.

Hey guys.

We have covered this one before - it's the one that ended up being registered to a 'James Cecil Bradley' who claimed that the tag was stolen - and had back-up for that claim. The name 'James Bradley' as I pointed out, being an interesting coincidence, since this same name was apparently used as an alias by both James Dolan and Jim Braden, who were associates.

Side note - lot of tag swapping that day I'll wager.

"The owner of the car and license, James Cecil Bradley, was interviewed by special agents of the FBI on May 14, 1964. At that time Bradley informed the FBI that he owned a 1960 Belair Chevrolet. The color of the car was not given, but Bradley stated that he had never owned a red 1963 Chevrolet Impala. Bradley said that in August or September 1963 his 1963 license plate was stolen from he car as it was parked overnight with a flat tire on Highway 80 between Swainsboro and Twin City, Ga. Bradley stated that he reported the theft to law officers in Twin City and Swainsboro."

The Assassinations Committee report also found: (1) Bradley's statement that his car tag had been stolen was confirmed in an FBI interview by a friend who helped to repair the flat tire; (2) official records confirmed that Bradley had reported his tag as stolen; and (3) the tag later stolen was originally issued to Bradley on Mar. 28, 1963. The Committee was unable to determine who stole the tag or who was in the fleeing Chevrolet.

But I went back to the suspicious vehicles thread and reread one of Steve Thomas' posts that I don't think we fully worked out - and it should be posted again here. Is it possible that there is an answer earlier on in the dispatch reports? A 1964 Falcon?

Based on the timing of the dispatches, I believe the person being described below is Lonnie Ray Wright:

At 1:12 # 243 calls in on Channel 2. #243 is Patrolman B. L. Apple

“I’m down here with this three wheeler at the dead-end of Laurels (sic) and he has got black hair. He is 42 years old and got a light colored jacket on and he is pretty drunk but he has been walking down these railroad tracks. Do you want me to take him up there or what do you want me to do with him?"

Along the lines of suspicious vehicles, I have always found these exchanges intriguing:

According to CE 1974 at 23H885, at approximately 2:20PM, Unit 474A (which is only identified as the Special Services Bureau) is dispatched to pick up a "subject on this overpass, carrying a rifle; railroad tracks, Cobb Stadium." 474A was asked if he could see the subject. 474A said no, but that they would go over and get him.

At 2:23, Unit 22 (Patrolman L.L. Hill) was dispatched to go out to Cobb Stadium on the railroad track overpass and meet 474A at the railroad tracks. "There is a white male carrying a rifle" (23H886)

At 2:26, unit 562 (a wrecker) radioed in and said that he was at Cobb stadium "for that suspect's car" (23H887). The Dispatcher told the wrecker to wait there, that 474A will "be back in a minute".

At 2:27, Unit 52(unknown) radioed in and asked if the T.C. Cobb Stadium was on the Hines Blvd overpass, the railroad overpass, or the freeway overpass and asked which direction the suspect was walking. The Dispatcher's response was garbled, but said he didn't know about the direction. (23H887)

At 2:28 Patrolman Hill reported that he was with the wrecker at Cobb Stadium and Unit 474A was ordered to go there. (23H887)

474A radios in and says, "The car that we want picked up is on the parking lot if front of the Merchandise Mart just north of Cobb Stadium."

22 asks if it is a 1964 Falcon. 474A says, "No. It is a red panel truck with writing on the side... license plate 3E9087. (23H888)

The time on Elrod's Arrest Record is given as 2:45 pm.

As early as 2:03 PM, Unit 474A was calling for a wrecker. "We need a wrecker on the parking lot just west of Cobb's stadium for suspect's car." (23H881)

At 2:26, unit 562 (a wrecker) radioed in and said that he was at Cobb stadium "for that suspect's car" (23H887). The Dispatcher told the wrecker to wait there, that 474A will "be back in a minute".

What suspect was that? At 2:03 unit 474A is looking to pick up a "suspect's" car, but 474A wasn't dispatched to pick up the suspect walking on the railroad tracks until 2:20 PM. (23H885)

There follows as series of transmissions from 474A looking for Deputy Chief M.W. Stevenson and Lieutenant C.C. Wallace.

Steve Thomas

[Robert Howard]

From WC CD 728 Radio Transmissions DPD on the day of the assassination.

Appx. 1:54 PM

"Have they got another one?"

"Carrollton PD called Public service and said someone had reported a 1963 Chev Impala, bearing Georgia License 52J1033 had been parked 3 or 4 days near Harry Hines circle - reported vehicle left location traveling North on Harry Hines at high rate of speed - Red, '63 Chev Impala. All we have at this time."

END

Interesting! Milteer and possible GA associates come to mind. I wonder if this particular tag no. was ever traced down. It might be worthwile to know how was "traveling north on Harry Hines at a high rate of speed" Friday afternoon on 11/22/1963.

Hey guys.

We have covered this one before - it's the one that ended up being registered to a 'James Cecil Bradley' who claimed that the tag was stolen - and had back-up for that claim. The name 'James Bradley' as I pointed out, being an interesting coincidence, since this same name was apparently used as an alias by both James Dolan and Jim Braden, who were associates.

Side note - lot of tag swapping that day I'll wager.

"The owner of the car and license, James Cecil Bradley, was interviewed by special agents of the FBI on May 14, 1964. At that time Bradley informed the FBI that he owned a 1960 Belair Chevrolet. The color of the car was not given, but Bradley stated that he had never owned a red 1963 Chevrolet Impala. Bradley said that in August or September 1963 his 1963 license plate was stolen from he car as it was parked overnight with a flat tire on Highway 80 between Swainsboro and Twin City, Ga. Bradley stated that he reported the theft to law officers in Twin City and Swainsboro."

The Assassinations Committee report also found: (1) Bradley's statement that his car tag had been stolen was confirmed in an FBI interview by a friend who helped to repair the flat tire; (2) official records confirmed that Bradley had reported his tag as stolen; and (3) the tag later stolen was originally issued to Bradley on Mar. 28, 1963. The Committee was unable to determine who stole the tag or who was in the fleeing Chevrolet.

But I went back to the suspicious vehicles thread and reread one of Steve Thomas' posts that I don't think we fully worked out - and it should be posted again here. Is it possible that there is an answer earlier on in the dispatch reports? A 1964 Falcon?

Based on the timing of the dispatches, I believe the person being described below is Lonnie Ray Wright:

At 1:12 # 243 calls in on Channel 2. #243 is Patrolman B. L. Apple

“I’m down here with this three wheeler at the dead-end of Laurels (sic) and he has got black hair. He is 42 years old and got a light colored jacket on and he is pretty drunk but he has been walking down these railroad tracks. Do you want me to take him up there or what do you want me to do with him?"

Along the lines of suspicious vehicles, I have always found these exchanges intriguing:

According to CE 1974 at 23H885, at approximately 2:20PM, Unit 474A (which is only identified as the Special Services Bureau) is dispatched to pick up a "subject on this overpass, carrying a rifle; railroad tracks, Cobb Stadium." 474A was asked if he could see the subject. 474A said no, but that they would go over and get him.

At 2:23, Unit 22 (Patrolman L.L. Hill) was dispatched to go out to Cobb Stadium on the railroad track overpass and meet 474A at the railroad tracks. "There is a white male carrying a rifle" (23H886)

At 2:26, unit 562 (a wrecker) radioed in and said that he was at Cobb stadium "for that suspect's car" (23H887). The Dispatcher told the wrecker to wait there, that 474A will "be back in a minute".

At 2:27, Unit 52(unknown) radioed in and asked if the T.C. Cobb Stadium was on the Hines Blvd overpass, the railroad overpass, or the freeway overpass and asked which direction the suspect was walking. The Dispatcher's response was garbled, but said he didn't know about the direction. (23H887)

At 2:28 Patrolman Hill reported that he was with the wrecker at Cobb Stadium and Unit 474A was ordered to go there. (23H887)

474A radios in and says, "The car that we want picked up is on the parking lot if front of the Merchandise Mart just north of Cobb Stadium."

22 asks if it is a 1964 Falcon. 474A says, "No. It is a red panel truck with writing on the side... license plate 3E9087. (23H888)

The time on Elrod's Arrest Record is given as 2:45 pm.

As early as 2:03 PM, Unit 474A was calling for a wrecker. "We need a wrecker on the parking lot just west of Cobb's stadium for suspect's car." (23H881)

At 2:26, unit 562 (a wrecker) radioed in and said that he was at Cobb stadium "for that suspect's car" (23H887). The Dispatcher told the wrecker to wait there, that 474A will "be back in a minute".

What suspect was that? At 2:03 unit 474A is looking to pick up a "suspect's" car, but 474A wasn't dispatched to pick up the suspect walking on the railroad tracks until 2:20 PM. (23H885)

There follows as series of transmissions from 474A looking for Deputy Chief M.W. Stevenson and Lieutenant C.C. Wallace.

Steve Thomas

bump