Zion's (Mad) Dogs of War Unleashed Again?

[Sid Walker]

Zion's (Mad) Dogs of War Unleashed Again?

Remarkably, there appears to be no topic in this forum suitable for recording one’s revulsion at Israel's latest crimes against humanity - and for expressing concern about the possibility that current events in the Holy Land may escalate into a full-scale war. One can find more discussion about soccer. Hence this new thread.

Collective punishment against civilian populations is a war crime under the Geneva Convention. Today's Wikipedia informs us that: "Collective punishment is the punishment of a group of people for the crime(s) of a few or even of one. It is contradictory to the modern concepts of rule of law and due process, (ie. civil society) where each individual receives separate treatment based on their individual circumstances — as they relate to the crime in question. Article 33 of the fourth Geneva Convention specifically forbids collective punishment."

In recent days, the Israeli military has been systematically demolishing the basic infrastructure of Gaza and the Lebanon and has conducted numerous remote assassination attempts, oblivious to the massive civilian causalities these so-called 'targeted attacks' are causing. There is no proportionality in Israel's violent actions. One can only infer its intent is to terrorize neighbors and enforce its will by brute force, unconstrained by any regard for national sovereignty or international law. Gaza is on the brink of a humanitarian debacle. Israel also shows signs of seeking to expand the conflict and ferment a wider war in the region.

Unsurprisingly, given its pro-Zionist bias, the western mainstream media has been fence sitting or openly siding with Israel. Condemnation of Israeli aggression by leaders of the self-styled 'free world' has been muted at best and completely lacking in many cases.

Most western politicians, journalists and other 'talking heads' are too intimidated by Zionists or too miseld and morally desensitized to blow the whistle on the criminal activities of the world's most dangerous rogue state. This silence encourages the Israeli Government to take further provocative actions. It has hinted at extending its punitive attacks to Syria and Iran.

Warning signs abound that Israel is in 'mad dog' mode, willing to jeopardize the very survival of civilization in pursuit of hegemony.

Some years ago, Martin van Creveld (Professor of Military History at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem), who can fairly claim to be the 'Father of the Apartheid Wall' as well as Israel's contemporary Dr Stangelove, expressed the following views:

...more and more Israelis were coming to regard the 'transfer' of the Palestinians as the only salvation; resort to it was growing 'more probable' with each passing day. Sharon 'wants to escalate the conflict and knows that nothing else will succeed'.

But would the world permit such ethnic cleansing? 'That depends on who does it and how quickly it happens. We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan: "Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother." I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third. We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.'

We'd be well-advised to recall the famous words of Edmund Burke: "when bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle."

Current events in the middle east seem crafted to give Israel a pretext for direct attacks on Syria and Iran – potentially triggering a regional, even a global war.

Peace-loving people everywhere must rise in active opposition to mad dogs such as Olmert and van Creveld lest they destroy civilization itself through their rabid sectarianism.

Edited July 14, 2006 by Sid Walker

[Owen Parsons]

We've had disagreements in the past and there are still some things that I take issue with in your position, but we are much closer to being on the same page now. I'd like to say right now that I repudiate my previous position; that the United States is in some manner working against Israel. Far too much intellectual gymnastics is required to maintain that silly position for my comfort and I now feel ridiculous for endorsing it the extent that I did. Since that's out of the way, lets proceed.

Remarkably, there appears to be no topic in this forum suitable for recording one's revulsion at Israel's latest crimes against humanity - and for expressing concern about the possibility that current events in the Holy Land may escalate into a full-scale war. One can find more discussion about soccer. Hence this new thread.

You're totally correct. The way this conflict is developing is unnerving, to say the least. A thread of this nature is certainly needed. Its unfortunate that almost no one visits this particular corner of the Education Forum.

Collective punishment against civilian populations is a war crime under the Geneva Convention. Today's Wikipedia informs us that: "Collective punishment is the punishment of a group of people for the crime(s) of a few or even of one. It is contradictory to the modern concepts of rule of law and due process, (ie. civil society) where each individual receives separate treatment based on their individual circumstances — as they relate to the crime in question. Article 33 of the fourth Geneva Convention specifically forbids collective punishment."

In recent days, the Israeli military has been systematically demolishing the basic infrastructure of Gaza and the Lebanon and has conducted numerous remote assassination attempts, oblivious to the massive civilian causalities these so-called 'targeted attacks' are causing. There is no proportionality in Israel's violent actions. One can only infer its intent is to terrorize neighbors and enforce its will by brute force, unconstrained by any regard for national sovereignty or international law. Gaza is on the brink of a humanitarian debacle. Israel also shows signs of seeking to expand the conflict and ferment a wider war in the region.

I can't find any fault with your analysis here.

Unsurprisingly, given its pro-Zionist bias, the western mainstream media has been fence sitting or openly siding with Israel. Condemnation of Israeli aggression by leaders of the self-styled 'free world' has been muted at best and completely lacking in many cases.

Most western politicians, journalists and other 'talking heads' are too intimidated by Zionists or too miseld and morally desensitized to blow the whistle on the criminal activities of the world's most dangerous rogue state. This silence encourages the Israeli Government to take further provocative actions. It has hinted at extending its punitive attacks to Syria and Iran.

Israel is not a special case by any means. The most massive and outrageous example of media falsification in recent times would be the coverage of the conflicts in Yugoslavia, the subject of my recent studies. A totally false history was created and propagated to serve the interests of the NATO governments. The end result was the destruction of a nation and massive suffering. None of this had anything to do with Israeli goals. The media says (mostly) what the government wants or needs it to say; if this involves falling lock, stock and barrel behind Israel, then this is what will occur.

Warning signs abound that Israel is in 'mad dog' mode, willing to jeopardize the very survival of civilization in pursuit of hegemony.

I can't disagree with this. What Israel is now doing is insane. Israel's goal of hegemony goes all the way back to Ben-Gurion, as this enlightening read shows. The "roadmap" does not appear to have significantly changed. Let's hope that Israel doesn't enter into the next stage of madness, as Iran and Syria will not hesitate to respond in kind.

Peace-loving people everywhere must rise in active opposition to mad dogs such as Olmert and van Creveld lest they destroy civilization itself through their rabid sectarianism.

And to think... for a while I was half-way under the delusion that Olmert was some sort of sell-out to the PA. Needless to say, he's set me straight. "Operation Summer Rain" was/is horrible and "Just Reward" is even worse.

[Mark Stapleton]

I agree. Israel's response to the second kidnapping is over the top. Unless the US pressures Israel to cease hostilities, war with Syria and Iran is will come any day now, the UN being routinely ignored in matters like this. Bush has stated Israel "is entitled to defend itself" so he may be hoping for an excuse to join Israel in declaring war on Iran. That would probably cause major global economic problems as the oil price surges.

Unfortunately, the idea that this might all be part of a contrived scheme to both take over the Middle East oil supplies and destroy opposition to Israel can't be discounted. Many would baulk at such a suggestion but when you look at the players involved, it starts to seem not so unlikely.

(The quote from Moshe Dayan in Sid's post shows why I believe Israel would have had no qualms about organising and/or participating in the plan to remove JFK. Dayan was JFK's contemporary and it was this mindset he was determined to confront.)

I think this is a very important thread.

Edited July 14, 2006 by Mark Stapleton

[Owen Parsons]

Report: Israel gives Syria ultimatum

Looks like its time for stage 2.

[Ron Ecker]

To play devil's advocate, it is not "collective punishment of a few or even one" to retaliate against a nation that has attacked you. Hezbollah is a Lebanese organization (an organization in Lebanon) that controls southern Lebanon and sits as part of the central Lebanese government.

Israel is retaliating against Hezbollah, and it makes sense to go ahead and irradicate Hezbollah now if possible since Hezbollah's apparent sole purpose on the planet is to destroy Israel (reportedly on behalf of Syria and Iran). So who the hell needs Hezbollah, and who will weep for them?

I believe that the targets hit in Beirut are Hezbollah targets, the airport and roads targeted to keep weapons from coming in and the kidnapped soldiers from being taken out, and the blockade likewise to keep weapons out of Hezbollah hands. All of Lebanon necessarily has to suffer for this. But the presence of Hezbollah in Lebanon is Lebanon's responsibility, which the Lebanese PM has belatedly acknowledged, since he has now indicated, under a bit of pressure, that he may send the Lebanese Army south to do something about Hezbollah. That could mean civil war, which I suppose would somehow be Israel's fault too. It's all Israel's fault for Hezbollah being in Lebanon for the purpose of destroying Israel.

There is a fear that this could all lead to war with Iran. Well, Iran is a rogue nation, in the terrorism business for decades and now working on nuclear weapons, and which coincidentally like Hezbollah is also hellbent on the destruction of Israel. So looking at it from an Israeli perspective, this would seem like a good time to take care of the Iranian problem too.

Did Israel ask for all these nations and peoples to work toward its total destruction? There has been a long and confusing dispute about land in that region, but Israel wound up with a certain amount of it, and other parts were offered to Palestinians and refused, once back when Israel was created, and more recently when Arafat, one of the biggest embezzlers of his own people's funds in the history of the world, was offered about 99 percent of what the Palestinians wanted, which would seem like a fair deal. But noooo! The deal fell through because Israel would continue to exist, and because Arafat might have to quit embezzling after peace broke out.

I am not an expert on the history of the conflict over there, I don't pretend to understand it all, and much of what I have said may therefore be 99 percent wrong-headed. Anyone therefore feel free to correct me. But it basically seems to me that when attacked across their border and their soldiers kidnapped by these single-minded fanatics who seem to live only for the destruction of Israel, I can hardly blame the perennially despised Israelis for saying, "Pardon me if we 'overreact.'" Or how do you say "Enough is enough" in Hebrew?

Edited July 16, 2006 by Ron Ecker

[Mark Stapleton]

Report: Israel gives Syria ultimatum

Looks like its time for stage 2.

It doesn't look good. Israel's rockets are now reaching the Syrian border and the Hezbollah rockets are hitting numerous Israeli cities. It seems to be an Israeli/Syrian conflict being played out in poor old Lebanon. How many times are they going to have to rebuild Beirut? The Arab League has given the 'peace process' the last rites and the coward who calls himself Australia's Prime Minister has yet to condemn Israel's disregard for civilian deaths--now 100 and rising. The only thing our Prime Minister says, over and over, is, "It's Hezbollah's fault, it's Hezbollah's fault". He's no statesman, he's a poodle.

[Steve Rymer]

Hi guys,

I would agree with most of what's been said - save the devil's advocate bit from Ron. I also think that too many excuses have been made for Israel in the past. A situation which may have indirectly led to today's predicament.

I would disagree on one point. Israel's targetting of strategic supply routes is not only to deny supplies to Hezbollah, but a prelude to all-out war. It's a pre-invasion tactic. The reason I think this, is the speed at which western governments are sending transport to evacuate their citizens. When was the was time you heard of that happening? There have been a few Canadian deaths, but no more than other conflicts. They know it's about to hit the fan!

The US failed in it's bid to gain support for the invasion of Iran. They have been taking pot-shots at Syria, Lebanon and North Korea for some time now. The US has already committed to defend Israel in the event of Iranian retaliation, so it's not difficult to see what's happening. The reason Israel's response appears disproportionate is because it is. They were looking for any excuse and now they have it (although, I have read several reports that the IDF troops were on the wrong side of the border).

This is all going to end badly!!!

[Sid Walker]

Today Australian news services carried stories about an Israeli soldier who held dual Australian-Israeli nationality, killed in the fighting in southern Lebanon. His mother is on the way to his funeral. The tone of coverage was somber and respectful. Australia had lost one of her own. Mourning is in order.

Fortunately, there are no reports to date of Australian Lebanese killed fighting for Hezbollah.

I say ‘fortunately’ for more than one reason.

First, it would have been yet another human tragedy – like the death of the young Israeli. In my book, Hezbollah activists are humans too (‘though you wouldn’t guess it from plenty of media coverage in Oz).

Second, had this occurred, the hypothetical warrior’s friends and family in Australia would have been put in a highly dangerous position. Even organizing a memorial service in his honour might be construed as supporting terrorism under Australia’s numerous 21st century ‘anti-Terror Laws’. Sending money to Hezbollah to organize a funeral would likely be a serious punishable offense as well. Funding a proscribed terrorist organization can attract long prison terms.

In short, those mourning an Australian who fought and died with an invading army are given full, respectful media rights. Those mourning a (hypothetical) Australian fighting with the resisting force would probably be harassed, jailed - even denied access to lawyers for long periods under so-called ‘anti-Terror’ laws.

I think this helps bring into stark relief the outrageous (yet usually unspoken) Zionist bias embedded in anti-terrorism laws enacted pursuant to the bogus ‘War on Terror’.

Edited July 29, 2006 by Sid Walker

[Sid Walker]

A couple of fascinating non-mainstream commentaries on the current state of play in the Israeli Wars of Agression (2006).

First, an article in the Daily Kos entitled John Bolton: Dead Lebanese worth less than dead Israelis which discusses current negotiations over terms for a ceasefirs. It examines what the mainstream media isn't saying about behind the scenses manouvering inside the Security Council.

Second, a hot-off-the-press classic by Israel Shamir: The Yoke of Zion

Shamir sees Hezbollah's largely unpredicted success in the current conflict as the sign and trigger for a major turnaround in Arab fortunes. He claims that even reactionary pro-American Arab regimes are turning to support Hezbollah, after initiially joining American condemnation of Hezbollah 'terrorism'.

This is the second quite upbeat article by Shamir that applauds the recent successes of Hezbollah (he lives in Haifa so this is not a position he can take lightly).

I tended to discount early reports of Israeli troops stalled in their advance through southern Lebanon, but weeks have passed and it seems a real and unexpected phenomenon is unfolding; Israel's military juggernaut is experiencing fierce and spirited resistance and this time is finding the invasion of Lebanon hard going.

No wonder the US-Israeli axis pushes for French troops to take over their self-appointed task of disarming Hezbollah. No wonder the French politely decline.

Viva Hezbollah! (and to hell with the stupid, discriminatory, unjustifiable and palpably pro-Zionist laws in countires such as Australia that brand resistance forces "terrorist" while we cozy up to the undisputed Lords of Aerial Mass Terror).

[Mark Stapleton]

A couple of fascinating non-mainstream commentaries on the current state of play in the Israeli Wars of Agression (2006).

First, an article in the Daily Kos entitled John Bolton: Dead Lebanese worth less than dead Israelis which discusses current negotiations over terms for a ceasefirs. It examines what the mainstream media isn't saying about behind the scenses manouvering inside the Security Council.

Second, a hot-off-the-press classic by Israel Shamir: The Yoke of Zion

Shamir sees Hezbollah's largely unpredicted success in the current conflict as the sign and trigger for a major turnaround in Arab fortunes. He claims that even reactionary pro-American Arab regimes are turning to support Hezbollah, after initiially joining American condemnation of Hezbollah 'terrorism'.

This is the second quite upbeat article by Shamir that applauds the recent successes of Hezbollah (he lives in Haifa so this is not a position he can take lightly).

I tended to discount early reports of Israeli troops stalled in their advance through southern Lebanon, but weeks have passed and it seems a real and unexpected phenomenon is unfolding; Israel's military juggernaut is experiencing fierce and spirited resistance and this time is finding the invasion of Lebanon hard going.

No wonder the US-Israeli axis pushes for French troops to take over their self-appointed task of disarming Hezbollah. No wonder the French politely decline.

Viva Hezbollah! (and to hell with the stupid, discriminatory, unjustifiable and palpably pro-Zionist laws in countires such as Australia that brand resistance forces "terrorist" while we cozy up to the undisputed Lords of Aerial Mass Terror).

Great stuff, Sid. Yes, I get the feeling that the longer this war goes on, the more likely a moral Hezbollah victory (or Israeli withdrawal) becomes. Despite the current casualty numbers (about 1000 Lebanese to 100 Israelis), this has been a turning point for the Middle East geopolitics. Israel is getting a taste of its own medicine. Indiscriminate slaughter is a very nasty thing and while Israel complains loudly about its losses, it continues devastating Lebanon to the brink of yet another humanitarian crisis, which, of course, the rest of the world will have to try and fix.

The arrogance of Israel insisting that the UN must step in and administer a buffer zone for its protection is one of the reasons that the Israel/US axis has few friends left in Europe and the Middle East.

I like the Shamir article, this passage in particular:

...after all, Americans and Europeans may just get bored with the guys that endlessly preach to others and are never willing to harken to other views. Even the Germans may one day kick their masochistic habit of endless repentance.

Israel, as it stands today, will never peacefully co-exist with its Arab neighbours. Nazrullah is now a demi-God, Lebanon has been transformed into a terrorist assembly line and moderates have become hardliners. The only way Israel can guarantee its safety now would be to occupy and declare all its Arab neighbours to be one giant buffer zone (administered by the UN of course). Sadly, this would probably be seen as a viable solution by the crazies in Tel Aviv and Washington. Maybe this is what they meant when they said they were intent on redrawing the map of the Middle East.

And I agree--Hezbollah is not a terrorist outfit but rather a resistance force opposed to Israel's brutal occupation. It has just as much if not more legitimacy than the Irgun or Hagannah--those pioneering Jewish groups of yesteryear and the leading forces behind the "noble Hebrew struggle for liberation".

[Peter McGuire]

As many of you know, JFK came out for Algerian independence in 1956 as a US Senator. Sadly, I believe if Kennedy had lived and implemented a more balanced approach to the affairs in this region, we would not be where we are today. I sent in a petition to President Bush a while back urging peace in the middle east. It included JFK's American University speech. The petition had parts of the speech in it and a picture of our executed president. I have never recieved a response from the White House yet.

Edited August 9, 2006 by Peter McGuire

[Sid Walker]

As many of you know, JFK came out for Algerian independence in 1956 as a US Senator. Sadly, I believe if Kennedy had lived and implemented a more balanced approach to affairs in this region, we would not be where we are today. I sent in a petition to President Bush a while back urging peace in the middle east. It included JFK's American University speech. The petition had parts of the speech in it and a picture of our executed president. I have never recieved a response from the White House yet.

Hi Peter

You may be interested in some of the earlier debates on this Forum that discuss the hypothesis that Israeli intelligence and its international support network were at the center of the conspiracy to murder JFK. It's a hypothesis most developed in the writings of Michael Collins Piper who writes for American Free Press in the USA.

Piper's book 'Final Judgment' has been discussed on this forum and he made a brief appearance here earlier this year.

Final Judgment, now in its sixth edition, has never been available in highstreet bookshops and has never been reviewed in mainstream media. First published in the mid-1990s, Final Judgment draws on archival releases from the early 90s which make it clear that JFK was having a major row with Israel's leadership - especially Ben Gurion - in the years preceding his assassination. This stand-off was kept private. The lack of publicty meant there was no reason for most people to suspect at the time that Israeli intelligence would have had any motive for killing JFK. Kennedy was pursuaded not to demand UN inspections of Dimona, but instead to continue US inspections that were outside the public spotlight.

After Kennedy's death, the US attempt (begun by Eisenhower and continued by Kennedy) to stop Israel from gaining nuclear weapons was quietly abandoned. By 1967 Israel had developed its first nuclear weapons.

On this forum, for instance, these references are relevant:

• Journalists and the Assassination of JFK
  
• Michael Collins Piper: Final Judgment (in JFK Assassination Debate)
  
• Michael Collins Piper: Final Judgment (in History Books)
  
• Biography: Michael Collins Piper
  
• Israel,LBJ and the JFK assassination
  

Warning: Some language used in these threads is not 'family-friendly' and plenty of the dialogue is most unfriendly to Piper.

[Mark Stapleton]

As many of you know, JFK came out for Algerian independence in 1956 as a US Senator. Sadly, I believe if Kennedy had lived and implemented a more balanced approach to affairs in this region, we would not be where we are today. I sent in a petition to President Bush a while back urging peace in the middle east. It included JFK's American University speech. The petition had parts of the speech in it and a picture of our executed president. I have never recieved a response from the White House yet.

Hi Peter

You may be interested in some of the earlier debates on this Forum that discuss the hypothesis that Israeli intelligence and its international support network were at the center of the conspiracy to murder JFK. It's a hypothesis most developed in the writings of Michael Collins Piper who writes for American Free Press in the USA.

Piper's book 'Final Judgment' has been discussed on this forum and he made a brief appearance here earlier this year.

Final Judgment, now in its sixth edition, has never been available in highstreet bookshops and has never been reviewed in mainstream media. First published in the mid-1990s, Final Judgment draws on archival releases from the early 90s which make it clear that JFK was having a major row with Israel's leadership - especially Ben Gurion - in the years preceding his assassination. This stand-off was kept private. The lack of publicty meant there was no reason for most people to suspect at the time that Israeli intelligence would have had any motive for killing JFK. Kennedy was pursuaded not to demand UN inspections of Dimona, but instead to continue US inspections that were outside the public spotlight.

After Kennedy's death, the US attempt (begun by Eisenhower and continued by Kennedy) to stop Israel from gaining nuclear weapons was quietly abandoned. By 1967 Israel had developed its first nuclear weapons.

On this forum, for instance, these references are relevant:

• Journalists and the Assassination of JFK
  
• Michael Collins Piper: Final Judgment (in JFK Assassination Debate)
  
• Michael Collins Piper: Final Judgment (in History Books)
  
• Biography: Michael Collins Piper
  
• Israel,LBJ and the JFK assassination
  

Warning: Some language used in these threads is not 'family-friendly' and plenty of the dialogue is most unfriendly to Piper.

Just a quick note on the Dimona inspections from Avner Cohen's "Israel and the Bomb" (1998)

1st inspection: 20 May 1961--This visit was tightly controlled by the Israeli hosts. The US scientists, Staebler and Croach, prepared a two page memo for McGeorge Bundy, the President's national security advisor, stating that nothing was concealed from them. However, they were not told of the large underground reprocessing plant which was under construction at the time.

2nd inspection: 26 September 1962--This visit was made to look as a spontaneous Israeli idea during a trip by two US nuclear scientists who arrived to conduct a routine inspection at the Nachal Soreq nuclear reactor (a small, pool type research reactor built by the US for Israel in the 1950's). This improvisation had been planned as a way of easing American pressure on Dimona. This visit was unduly restricted by the Israeli hosts to just 45 minutes.

Sadly, these were the only two inspections JFK got. In 1963, he ramped up the pressure on the reluctant Ben-Gurion. Kennedy, spooked by the Cuban missile crisis and keen to sign off on the nuclear test ban treaty with the Soviets, wanted proof of Israel's repeated 'peaceful purposes' reassurances and was willing to risk confrontation with Ben-Gurion to get it. Kennedy now insisted on bi-annual visits, which was the only way of ensuring that Israel was not gaining access to all aspects of the nuclear fuel cycle. Ben-Gurion protested and stalled, citing a variety of excuses including Egypt's ballistic missile program and the Arab Federation Proclamation. He even put forward an ambitious proposal for a joint US-Soviet declaration to guarantee Israel's territorial integrity and security. Kennedy was not swayed. In the face of Kennedy's dogged persistence, Ben-Gurion resigned in June 1963, citing personal reasons but it was widely believed that his failure to persuade JFK of Israel's security concerns was the real reason.

Interestingly, on December 5, 1963,--two weeks after JFK's assassination--Israel invited US representatives to visit Dimona at a convenient date in January 1964. Henceforth, Israel set the ground rules.

The link for the book's website, with lengthy excerpts and document citations, below:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/israel/index.htm

Edited August 12, 2006 by Mark Stapleton

[Mark Stapleton]

It looks like Israel and its underwriter, the US, might be headed for defeat in their latest adventure, if these observations are on the money:

http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=34271

[David G. Healy]

It looks like Israel and its underwriter, the US, might be headed for defeat in their latest adventure, if these observations are on the money:

http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=34271

Comparing the 6 Day War with hit and flee or self detonating terrorists may make good anti-US blogs and publication headlines, it's fools folly comparing them militarily... Apples to Oranges, unless of course you become part of the body count ... Iran may have overstepped its bounds this time...

Edited August 9, 2006 by David G. Healy