'Ron Cross' and 'Lt Col. Charles Crest'

[Francesca Akhtar]

Fonzi also gave codenames to these two characters , again I am wondering if their real identity has since come out?

'Ron Cross' worked at JM/WAVE and organised some cuban exile 'units' and had come into contact with Frank Sturgis in Cuba. He said he knew D.A. Phillips as 'Bishop' and that E. Howard Hunt used the alias 'Knight'.

'Lt. Col. Charles Crest', was a marine officer who in 1958 started working for the CIA. He said he had worked with David Morales in Vietnam.

[Robert Charles-Dunne]

Fonzi also gave codenames to these two characters , again I am wondering if their real identity has since come out?

'Ron Cross' worked at JM/WAVE and organised some cuban exile 'units' and had come into contact with Frank Sturgis in Cuba. He said he knew D.A. Phillips as 'Bishop' and that E. Howard Hunt used the alias 'Knight'.

'Lt. Col. Charles Crest', was a marine officer who in 1958 started working for the CIA. He said he had worked with David Morales in Vietnam.

"Ron Cross" was the alias given by the HSCA to Ross Crozier, about whom I've plucked the info below from Weberman's Nodule 12. Sorry, but I cannot help you with "Charles Crest."

In Miami, Gaeton Fonzi interviewed a former career CIA agent, Ross Crozier. Fonzi wrote: "The CIA would later demand that the Committee not use the man's real name. The Committee called him Ron Cross. Crozier, we discovered, had worked as a case officer out of the CIA's JMWAVE station. He handled Cuban exile labor units, and helped in organizing a militant group that, although not nearly as large and effective as Alpha-66, was very active. Early in his career, posing as an American businessman with financial connections, Ross Crozier had infiltrated Castro's mountain stronghold before the big barbudo seized power." There, Crozier met FRANK STURGIS and Andrew St. George. HEMMING told this researcher: "The one time FRANK ever risked his life was when he went with St. George and Ross Crozier. You know what that trip was all about? To take Fidel out. He was a patriot. He was serving his country. They couldn't find Fidel. It was the last two weeks of December 1958. FRANK was a spotter. Crozier was his case officer. That's bad news. He wouldn't do it. He's not a kamikaze. STURGIS never dropped a hammer on anyone in his life. Crozier was a case officer who belonged to Alcoholics Anonymous. He's a C.O. for STURGIS, and he's reporting to Sam Kail in Havana. STURGIS dealt with Kail when he was in Miami." From September 1960 until November 1962, Ross Crozier was a JMWAVE case officer. According to Ross Crozier, HUNT frequented this facility. While Ross Crozier was at JMWAVE, PHILLIPS, who was stationed in Washington, was responsible for certain CIA anti-Castro operations. Gaeton Fonzi reported: "Both Al Gonzalez and I stopped short of asking him certain questions for fear of revealing what we knew...But we did ask him about DAVID PHILLIPS. Sure Crozier said, he knew PHILLIPS. He said PHILLIPS, working through the JMWAVE, coordinated the propaganda operations of all the Cuban exile groups the Agency was running. PHILLIPS, he said, worked mostly out of Washington at that time, but flew in and out of Miami frequently. On a daily basis, Crozier said, the case officers worked with PHILLIPS direct subordinate at the station, a man called Doug Gupton...One day Al Gonzalez called Crozier and told him we were working on something that required confirmation of the pseudonyms or aliases used by CIA officers who had worked out of the JM WAVE station. He threw three names at Crozier: One was 'BISHOP,' another was 'KNIGHT' and the third was the true name of an officer who had worked out of the Havana Station. Off the top of his head, Crozier said, he believed BISHOP was the name used by PHILLIPS, KNIGHT, a name that HOWARD HUNT occasionally used. He said we must be mistaken about the third name because that was the true name of a fellow he had known in Havana. Crozier said that in the next few days he would be talking with some of the Cuban exile agents he had worked with and, in chatting with them about the old days, perhaps his memory would be refreshed. Several days later Gonzalez dropped in for a chat with Crozier to see if his memory had been refreshed. Well, Crozier said, it had been a bit. He now said he was 'almost certain' that DAVID PHILLIPS had used the name of MAURICE BISHOP but he still was not definite about whether HUNT had used the KNIGHT alias. He was sure, however, that the third name was a true name. His answer surprised us. We had not given Crozier the first name of BISHOP."

DOUG GUPTON

Fonzi revisited Ross Crozier and brought up the topic of KNIGHT and BISHOP. "Yes, Crozier said, as a matter of fact, he had been giving it more thought. He said he was fairly sure now that HUNT did use the KNIGHT alias. He was said he was now 'almost positive' that DAVID PHILLIPS used the name BISHOP. The reason he was sure about that, he said, was because he had been thinking about the period when he worked with PHILLIPS' assistant at the JMWAVE Station, that young fellow named Doug Gupton. Crozier said he now recalled often discussing special field agent problems with Gupton and Gupton at times saying 'Well, I guess 'Mr. BISHOP' will have to talk to him. Ross Crozier said, 'And of course I knew he was referring to his boss, DAVID PHILLIPS.'" In Give Us This Day HUNT wrote: ""I met Douglas Gupton, an aggressive bilingual young officer who handled field propaganda operations for KNIGHT. Gupton was already organizing, guiding and subsidizing the same exile groups that Varona had wanted to bring under FRD direction and control. He also subsidized a number of former Havana newspapers that now had "In Exile" added to their names. (Though not, or course, Diario de la Marina). Subscriptions to Latin Americans were sold at nominal cost to spread the anti-Castro word in countries where Fidel was regarded sympathetically...Unlike the political freeze, Gupton's psychological warfare activities were going full blast. Under such dedicated young student activists as Luis Fernandez Rocha, Ernesto Fernandez Travieso, the exile DRE had achieved sufficient cohesion to permit its operating as an independent infiltration unit. The members were scoring sabotage successes in Havana, and the resultant publicity provoked resentment in Tony Varona, who felt he should have charge of the DRE as well. Organizationally this made sense, but Varona's personality was so corrosive, that both Gupton and I realized we would have to spend so much effort policing the merger as to make it impractical." [Day pages 46,85] The HSCA interviewed "Doug Gupton" on August 22, 1978, at CIA Headquarters. 'Doug Gupton" acknowledged that he worked with PHILLIPS and Ross Crozier but denied having heard the name MAURICE BISHOP. Fonzi reported: "When told that Ross Crozier said that he specifically mentioned remembering Gupton referring to DAVID PHILLIPS as Mr. BISHOP, Gupton remained silent for a moment, looked down at his lap, and said 'Well, maybe I did. I don't remember.'" PHILLIPS testified before the HSCA in executive session, and denied all of the allegations. When Antonio Veciana testified, he denied PHILLIPS was BISHOP.

Oddy, when comparing to the above text, in which Fonzi interviewed Crozier several times, Crozier subsequently denied ever meeting Fonzi, if the following can be believed. [Given that it was submitted by Jerry McNally, whose modus operandi could scarcely be called objective or impartial - witness his paraphrasing portions of Crozier's responses, rather than simply direct quotes - one invests belief in McNally at one's own peril.]

From: jerry98@my-dejanews.com

Subject: Interview With Ross Crozier

Date: 1999/05/07 Message-ID: <7guusa$amp$1@nnrp1.deja.com>#1/1

Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk

I spoke with Ross Crozier today, 5/7/99 as follows:

>Have you read TLI and the HSCA's treatment of you on the allegation that David

>Phillips was "Maurice Bishop"?

No. [He remembers talking to an HSCA investigator, but, not to Fonzi. He says he never would reveal the cover name of a CIA officer or say anything to reveal covert operations or to embarrass a high official like Dave Phillips.}

>My reading is that you are cited as being the only person who ever said

>directly that Phillips was "Bishop" – is this accurate?

Somebody said to me once, 'You're going to come out and deny that, right?' and I didn't know what he was talking about.

I remember hearing that name used [Maurice Bishop] around the station. But I just called him "Dave" – everybody did. So, it's not something I could say with any positive assurance. […] [Regarding cover names] You will relax to the point where you'll relax and drop the [cover] names…

>Do you find it credible that in 1978 Phillips did not remember the name

>Veciana, nor had he met him previously?

Yes, that's conceivable … we heard about them ...the info at JM/WAVE … [concerned operations and not the names of founders].

>I understand that Dave Phillips was drinking heavily at this time [when he was quesioned by HSCA] – could that have played a role?

It could well have.

>To you knowledge was Alpha66 assigned a case officer?

No, we knew about them, of course. Well … not everybody … they were a paramilitary outfit, hit and run, using surface craft … I didn't know the names of the prominent personalities, just the name of the outfit and I was right inside JM/WAVE.

>The Maurice Bishop that Fonzi portrays is a rabid Kennedy hater who urges

>Alpha66 to launch raids during the CMC to embarrass JFK and perhaps provoke a

>war – does this sound like Phillips?

Oh, no, no, no, that's not the kind of guy I knew. Dave was concerned about risky operations which could cause the Agency embarrassment [Ross gave details of a covert operation that he had proposed which Dave shot down for those sort of reasons.] ]That's not at all the Dave Phillips I knew. Dave was a very natural kind of guy, you couldn't help but get along with him, he ran a good shop, everybody loved him. You'd work for a guy like that.

>Further, MB meets Veciana & Oswald in Dallas in late summer 1963. Can you imagine Dave Phillips running Oswald & meeting him in sight of Veciana?

That's inconceivable. Oswald was a real freak and I can't see Dave having anything to do with him under any circumstances. Dave was a very high officer … I don't think he'd run a low level operation like this personally.

>Finally, MB pays off Veciana in 1973-74: he gives him $253K in cash in the parking lot of the Flagler Dog Track. Does this sound like something a CIA officer would do?

Who did that? I want to go work for him. I had to account for every penny. [Ross goes on to say that that sum of money would only be available for bribing a very high official who was of high operational interest to the Agency].

Perhaps Crozier's intermittent memory regarding speaking with Fonzi can be attributed to his alcoholism, referenced by Gerry Hemming's comments in Weberman's text. But then, one is also advised to take whatever Hemming claims with a rather hefty grain of salt, too.

[Francesca Akhtar]

Many thanks for the information. I did not know of the Jerry McNally interview. It doesn't surprise me that Crozier appears to have denied what he said or even meeting Fonzi. After he had time to think abou ti, he probably thought he'd better deny the whole thing, maybe for his own sake.

I really don't believe he is being truthful in that. Having read Gaeton's Fonzi's book, he strikes me as a very 'straight', truthful person.

I wonder who on earth Lt Col. Charles Crest could be? I think in the book it said he worked at the China Lake Naval station in California.

[Thomas Graves]

Fonzi also gave codenames to these two characters , again I am wondering if their real identity has since come out?

'Ron Cross' worked at JM/WAVE and organised some cuban exile 'units' and had come into contact with Frank Sturgis in Cuba. He said he knew D.A. Phillips as 'Bishop' and that E. Howard Hunt used the alias 'Knight'.

'Lt. Col. Charles Crest', was a marine officer who in 1958 started working for the CIA. He said he had worked with David Morales in Vietnam.

"Ron Cross" was the alias given by the HSCA to Ross Crozier, about whom I've plucked the info below from Weberman's Nodule 12. Sorry, but I cannot help you with "Charles Crest."

In Miami, Gaeton Fonzi interviewed a former career CIA agent, Ross Crozier. Fonzi wrote: "The CIA would later demand that the Committee not use the man's real name. The Committee called him Ron Cross. Crozier, we discovered, had worked as a case officer out of the CIA's JMWAVE station. He handled Cuban exile labor units, and helped in organizing a militant group that, although not nearly as large and effective as Alpha-66, was very active. Early in his career, posing as an American businessman with financial connections, Ross Crozier had infiltrated Castro's mountain stronghold before the big barbudo seized power." There, Crozier met FRANK STURGIS and Andrew St. George. HEMMING told this researcher: "The one time FRANK ever risked his life was when he went with St. George and Ross Crozier. You know what that trip was all about? To take Fidel out. He was a patriot. He was serving his country. They couldn't find Fidel. It was the last two weeks of December 1958. FRANK was a spotter. Crozier was his case officer. That's bad news. He wouldn't do it. He's not a kamikaze. STURGIS never dropped a hammer on anyone in his life. Crozier was a case officer who belonged to Alcoholics Anonymous. He's a C.O. for STURGIS, and he's reporting to Sam Kail in Havana. STURGIS dealt with Kail when he was in Miami." From September 1960 until November 1962, Ross Crozier was a JMWAVE case officer. According to Ross Crozier, HUNT frequented this facility. While Ross Crozier was at JMWAVE, PHILLIPS, who was stationed in Washington, was responsible for certain CIA anti-Castro operations. Gaeton Fonzi reported: "Both Al Gonzalez and I stopped short of asking him certain questions for fear of revealing what we knew...But we did ask him about DAVID PHILLIPS. Sure Crozier said, he knew PHILLIPS. He said PHILLIPS, working through the JMWAVE, coordinated the propaganda operations of all the Cuban exile groups the Agency was running. PHILLIPS, he said, worked mostly out of Washington at that time, but flew in and out of Miami frequently.

On a daily basis, Crozier said, the case officers worked with PHILLIPS' direct subordinate at the [JMWAVE] station, a man called Doug Gupton.

One day Al Gonzalez called Crozier and told him we were working on something that required confirmation of the pseudonyms or aliases used by CIA officers who had worked out of the JM WAVE station. He threw three names at Crozier: One was 'BISHOP,' another was 'KNIGHT' and the third was the true name of an officer who had worked out of the Havana Station. Off the top of his head, Crozier said, he believed BISHOP was the name used by PHILLIPS, KNIGHT, a name that HOWARD HUNT occasionally used. He said we must be mistaken about the third name because that was the true name of a fellow he had known in Havana. Crozier said that in the next few days he would be talking with some of the Cuban exile agents he had worked with and, in chatting with them about the old days, perhaps his memory would be refreshed. Several days later Gonzalez dropped in for a chat with Crozier to see if his memory had been refreshed. Well, Crozier said, it had been a bit. He now said he was 'almost certain' that DAVID PHILLIPS had used the name of MAURICE BISHOP but he still was not definite about whether HUNT had used the KNIGHT alias. He was sure, however, that the third name was a true name. His answer surprised us. We had not given Crozier the first name of BISHOP."

DOUG GUPTON

Fonzi revisited Ross Crozier and brought up the topic of KNIGHT and BISHOP. "Yes, Crozier said, as a matter of fact, he had been giving it more thought. He said he was fairly sure now that HUNT did use the KNIGHT alias. He was said he was now 'almost positive' that DAVID PHILLIPS used the name BISHOP. The reason he was sure about that, he said, was because he had been thinking about the period when he worked with PHILLIPS' assistant at the JMWAVE Station, that young fellow named Doug Gupton. Crozier said he now recalled often discussing special field agent problems with Gupton and Gupton at times saying 'Well, I guess 'Mr. BISHOP' will have to talk to him. Ross Crozier said, 'And of course I knew he was referring to his boss, DAVID PHILLIPS.'"

In Give Us This Day HUNT wrote:

"I met Douglas Gupton, an aggressive bilingual young officer who handled field propaganda operations for KNIGHT...

[i think Hunt is either confusing two chess pieces or trying to protect Phillips by referring to him as "Knight" instead of "Bishop". FWIW, Richard Helms may have been a "Knight" and "Knight" might have been one of Hunt's own pseudos, for that matter. --Tommy]

...Gupton was already organizing, guiding and subsidizing the same exile groups that Varona had wanted to bring under FRD direction and control. He also subsidized a number of former Havana newspapers that now had "In Exile" added to their names. (Though not, or course, Diario de la Marina). Subscriptions to Latin Americans were sold at nominal cost to spread the anti-Castro word in countries where Fidel was regarded sympathetically...Unlike the political freeze, Gupton's psychological warfare activities were going full blast. Under such dedicated young student activists as Luis Fernandez Rocha, Ernesto Fernandez Travieso, the exile DRE had achieved sufficient cohesion to permit its operating as an independent infiltration unit. The members were scoring sabotage successes in Havana, and the resultant publicity provoked resentment in Tony Varona, who felt he should have charge of the DRE as well. Organizationally this made sense, but Varona's personality was so corrosive, that both Gupton and I realized we would have to spend so much effort policing the merger as to make it impractical." [Give Us This Day pages 46,85]

The HSCA interviewed "Doug Gupton" on August 22, 1978, at CIA Headquarters. 'Doug Gupton" acknowledged that he worked with PHILLIPS and Ross Crozier but denied having heard the name MAURICE BISHOP. Fonzi reported: "When told that Ross Crozier said that he specifically mentioned remembering Gupton referring to DAVID PHILLIPS as Mr. BISHOP, Gupton remained silent for a moment, looked down at his lap, and said 'Well, maybe I did. I don't remember.'" PHILLIPS testified before the HSCA in executive session, and denied all of the allegations. When Antonio Veciana testified, he denied PHILLIPS was BISHOP.

[...]

John Newman says William M. Kent's CIA pseudonyms were "Douglas Gupton", "Robert K.Trouchard", and "Oliver H. Corbuston".

For more info on "Doug Gupton" see this:

http://jfkfacts.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Crozier-on-Bishop-HSCA-011878.pdf

--Tommy

Edited December 20, 2014 by Thomas Graves

[Paul Brancato]

That would make Phillips two levels above Joannides, since Gupton/Kent was Joannides case officer, and Kent worked for Phillips.

[Steve Rosen]

Paul,

George Joannides was a CIA case officer. Assets and agents have case officers. Kent/Gupton may have had a supervisory position over Joannides, but that is not certain. I don't think Kent would be considered Joannides's case officer in any sense.

From what is known about JM/WAVE, Joannides likely reported to Helms, Phillips, Ted Shackley, and Dave Morales, depending on the project.

Steve

[Chuck Schwartz]

Though this thread ended in early 2015, it now seems relevant again (re: DAP / Alpha 66) discussion).