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Guest Mark Valenti

How the Magic Bullet got on the stretcher

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Guest Mark Valenti

This is already known but sometimes it's a good idea to revisit the facts.

Mr. TOMLINSON. Well, sir; I don't recall how long it had been exactly, but an intern or doctor, I didn't know which, came to use the men's room there in the elevator lobby.

Mr. SPECTER. Where is the men's room located on this diagram?

Mr. TOMLINSON. It would be right there (indicating) beside the "B" stretcher.

Mr. SPECTER. Would you draw in ink there the outline of that room in a general way?

Mr. TOMLINSON. Well, I really don't know.

Mr. SPECTER. And would you mark that with the letter "C"? (Witness complied with request of Counsel Specter.)

Mr. SPECTER. That's fine. What happened when that gentleman came to use the men's room?

Mr. TOMLINSON. Well, he pushed the stretcher out from the wall to get in, and then when he came out he just walked off and didn't push the stretcher back up against the wall, so I pushed it out of the way where we would have clear area in front of the elevator.

Mr. SPECTER. And where did you push it to?

Mr. TOMLINSON. I pushed it back up against the wall.

Mr. SPECTER. What, if anything, happened then?

Mr. TOMLINSON. I bumped the wall and a spent cartridge or bullet rolled out that apparently had been lodged under the edge of the mat.

Edited by Mark Valenti

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Tomlinson's story really doesn't make much sense.

To start with, what hospital staff would leave a stretcher blocking the restroom door? Did some conspirator do it so someone would move it and a bullet would roll out? How could the conspirator be sure that the bullet would roll out or be found? Tomlinson said the bullet rolled out because he hit the wall with the stretcher. Was hitting the wall foreseen by the conspirator?

Also, Tomlinson said the bullet had become "lodged under the edge of the mat." Why would someone planting a bullet lodge it under the mat, instead of in clear view?

And if the bullet wasn't planted but fell out of someone who had been on the stretcher, how could it lodge under the edge of the mat? Did it gravitate around the edge and crawl in?

Seems to me that the person to suspect in this story would not be the "intern or doctor" who moved the stretcher to get into the restroom, but the teller of the story.

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Guest Mark Valenti
Tomlinson's story really doesn't make much sense.

To start with, what hospital staff would leave a stretcher blocking the restroom door? Did some conspirator do it so someone would move it and a bullet would roll out? How could the conspirator be sure that the bullet would roll out or be found? Tomlinson said the bullet rolled out because he hit the wall with the stretcher. Was hitting the wall foreseen by the conspirator?

Also, Tomlinson said the bullet had become "lodged under the edge of the mat." Why would someone planting a bullet lodge it under the mat, instead of in clear view?

And if the bullet wasn't planted but fell out of someone who had been on the stretcher, how could it lodge under the edge of the mat? Did it gravitate around the edge and crawl in?

Seems to me that the person to suspect in this story would not be the "intern or doctor" who moved the stretcher to get into the restroom, but the teller of the story.

Since hospitals use stretchers, gurneys, sheets and pads on a daily basis, it may have been thought that the bullet would be found at some point within a week or so. Even if it took several weeks to find it, the bullet itself would still have been considered important evidence. The fact that it was found right away might be nothing more than happenstance.

Also, remember there was a lot of chaos in the hospital that day, it's entirely conceivable that a stretcher would be pushed against a bathroom door in haste.

It's a moot point anyway - Tomlinson told the FBI that he couldn't identify the bullet they showed him as being the one he found on the stretcher.

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Guest Mark Valenti
it wasn't magic...it just wasn't involved in the shooting and was likely placed by hand in the hospital to be 'found'......

Exactly my point.

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It looks like when the stretcher is placed there in front of the toilet that the door with question mark is accessible. Where does that door lead? If the stretcher was taken out of the elevator and placed there perhaps the person doing so then left by this door?

(tomlinson exhibit # 2) Where's exhibit #1, is that ce399?

1. Why was a stretcherA by itself in the emergency elevator when Tomlinson entered it on the (which floor?... the basement?) ?

2. When he pushed the stretcherA out of the elevator, the stretcherB was 2 feet from the wall/door to the toilet C.

3. StretcherB is the one Connally was on when moved to second floor operating room. Jane Wester moved it to the centre of the room and R. J. Jimison took it into the elevator. At this point Specter stops being detailed about the stretcher movements. Jimison says what would normaly happen and and that he saw no other stretcher put on to the elevator. Then Jimison says he was interviewed by a SS agent and the testimony ends.

Is this SS interview available?

It seems funny that Specter is very careful to note the movements of the stretchers EXCEPT when in the possession of Jimison. He seems to fuzz out at that point.

Edited by John Dolva

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The point at which he 'fuzzes out' is when Jimison seems to stumble and says the Stretchers sheets were not rolled up* then with prodding from Specter he says they were kind of bundled but not rolled up as the operating nurse says. Specter than drifts off the subject of the stretcher movements and picks it up again with Tomlinson.

He then spends quite a lot of time establishing that, under oath, Tominson cannot say with absolute certainty which stretcher was which.

Is this another one of those sleights of hands that this case seems to have so many of?

Perhaps Jimisons' SS interview holds a key.

*the stretcher that Tomlinson came upon in the elevator when he entered it was with flat white sheets.

[peter I put the image back for a while(hull)]

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Guest Mark Valenti

I think it's one of the most important elements in the whole series of events. Tracing that bullet back to its origins is another key to the mystery.

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I thought Ruby placed the bullet on a stretcher, albeit the wrong stretcher. He was seen and recognized by at least two people at Parkland (I don't have their names handy, sorry) right after the shooting.

Myra

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Guest Stephen Turner
I thought Ruby placed the bullet on a stretcher, albeit the wrong stretcher. He was seen and recognized by at least two people at Parkland (I don't have their names handy, sorry) right after the shooting.

Myra

Myra, Seth Kantor claimed to have seen Ruby outside Parkland, and to have spoken to him. (he knew Ruby well) The image of Ruby placing the bullet on the gurney comes from Stones JFK...Steve.

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I thought Ruby placed the bullet on a stretcher, albeit the wrong stretcher. He was seen and recognized by at least two people at Parkland (I don't have their names handy, sorry) right after the shooting.

Myra

Myra, Seth Kantor claimed to have seen Ruby outside Parkland, and to have spoken to him. (he knew Ruby well) The image of Ruby placing the bullet on the gurney comes from Stones JFK...Steve.

Thanks Steve. I haven't seen Stones JFK believe it or not. (But I want to see the director's cut.) So I know I've read in a book that two people saw Ruby and he could have planted the magic bullet. It might have been from Mark Lane, I just finished his books, probably Rush to Judgement.

Ok good, one man (Seth Kantor then) spoke to Ruby at the hospital. Then there was a woman who saw him at length during something like a press conference where people were standing around. Ah, this website says that Crossfire/Jim Marrs mentioned that Seth Kantor saw Ruby. http://roswell.fortunecity.com/angelic/96/pctime.htm

(Hey, according to this site Kantor wrote a book about Ruby called "The Ruby Cover-Up."

http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_...blio_alph.html)

I do think he was a likely source of the bullet. I don't think it came out of a body 'cause it was pristine.

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Guest Mark Valenti
I do think he was a likely source of the bullet. I don't think it came out of a body 'cause it was pristine.

Which leads us back to the "intern" or "doctor" who was seen near the stretcher.

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Guest Stephen Turner

Myra, Ruby was present at the press scrum at DPD H/Q most of Friday/Saturday, even answering some of the reporters questions about Oswalds afiliations with pro Cuba groups. At one point he is prevented from entering a room where Oswald is being questioned. Many people attest to his presence, and he was caught on camera several times. There can be little doubt that he was stalking Oswald from Friday evening onwards..

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