Survey: Where to look?

Thomas H. Purvis · November 2, 2006

In preparation to looking at the part of the Zfilm covering this third shot here's a panorama.
(the fuzzy people are the ones moving around)

John;

The downward slope of Elm St. was (-) 3 degrees 8 minutes.

In event that you can utilize the curb as reference, it will place this in a much better perspective if the road runs downhill like it should.

Tom

John Dolva · November 2, 2006

I see what you mean, Tom. If you look at the people they're upright and leaning towards Zapruder (appears to be) of course they're not, but he is filming down onto the scene. Note I added a (zipfile to the last post) of the sequence. Hopefully it will work. That takes up my file space so I'll just leave it for a day or so.

__________

the necessary movie file is too big to post and the image host converts it into a flash so until I work out a fix in the meantime here's a gif which shows a little bit of what can be known. The patch on the street helps to locate the sequence.

(gif)

(sorry even the gif is too big) I'll work something out, in the meantime:

# Hill attempts to leap onto the car, stumbles and instead oftrying to grip the spare tyre thingy goes for the hand hold. In doing so his hand sweeps a bit forward and this is about when Jackie starts to rise. There's a faintly seen brownish spot that Hill appears to have knocked forward from behind the tyre and this is about the spot that Jackie ends out reaching for. It's impossible to say she is picking something up.

# Jackie:: Before rising or starting to rise her left hand is behind Kennedy's neck. When her left hand leaves the neck and she starts to reach over the hood, her right hand goes behind Kennedys head and pushes it forward.

# When she starts to rise she also pushes Kennedy slightly more upright. He then doesn't slump back very much which seems to indicate that his brace is actually supporting his trunk in an upright position.

# At no time can I see any sign of Kennedy being hit. At normal speed there are at a couple of points a blur that could be mistaken for something.

If he is hit, it would seem to me to have to be just at that moment when Jackies hands are changing position and this is in front of Altgens.

# Looking at Connally at this time: Nelly pulls him down and cowers down herself. They almost disappear behind foliage.

# There are two almost stationary men, which seems curious, but they appear for only a short time and the little boy is almost stationary too.

I'll continue to look at it.

Tom, what is the primary reason for thinking Kennedy is hit a third time here? I guess one can say the primary reason for thinking he was hit at z312-3 is simply it is clearly seen in the zfilm. What about this third shot? I mean right at the start in those early days, what drew attention to that particular moment?

________________

EDIT:: here it is zipped mpg01 hopefully in a correct codec. A viewer like InterVideo allows varying frame rate, zooming, pan and stepping, to look at the various parts of the movie.

EDIT2:: name corection

This post has been edited by John Dolva: Today, 04:19 AM

Attached File(s)

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...ost&id=7917

Edited November 2, 2006 by John Dolva

Thomas H. Purvis · November 2, 2006

the necessary movie file is too big to post and the image host converts it into a flash so until I work out a fix in the meantime here's a gif which shows a little bit of what can be known. The patch on the street helps to locate the sequence.
(gif)

(sorry even the gif is too big) I'll work something out, in the meantime:

# Greer attempts to leap onto the car, stumbles and instead oftrying to grip the spare tyre thingy goes for the hand hold. In doing so his hand sweeps a bit forward and this is about when Jackie starts to rise. There's a faintly seen brownish spot that Greer appears to have knocked forward from behind the tyre and this is about the spot that Jackie ends out reaching for. It's impossible to say she is picking something up.

# Jackie:: Before rising or starting to rise her left hand is behind Kennedy's neck. When her left hand leaves the neck and she starts to reach over the hood, her right hand goes behind Kennedys head and pushes it forward.

# When she starts to rise she also pushes Kennedy slightly more upright. He then doesn't slump back very much which seems to indicate that his brace is actually supporting his trunk in an upright position.

# At no time can I see any sign of Kennedy being hit. At normal speed there are at a couple of points a blur that could be mistaken for something.

If he is hit, it would seem to me to have to be just at that moment when Jackies hands are changing position and this is in front of Altgens.

# Looking at Connally at this time: Nelly pulls him down and cowers down herself. They almost disappear behind foliage.

# There are two almost stationary men, which seems curious, but they appear for only a short time and the little boy is almost stationary too.

I'll continue to look at it.

Tom, what is the primary reason for thinking Kennedy is hit a third time here? I guess one can say the primary reason for thinking he was hit at z312-3 is simply it is clearly seen in the zfilm. What about this third shot? I mean right at the start in those early days, what drew attention to that particular moment?

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z340.jpg

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z341.jpg

# Greer attempts to leap onto the car, stumbles and instead oftrying to grip the spare tyre thingy goes for the hand hold. In doing so his hand sweeps a bit forward and this is about when Jackie starts to rise. There's a faintly seen brownish spot that Greer appears to have knocked forward from behind the tyre and this is about the spot that Jackie ends out reaching for. It's impossible to say she is picking something up.

It's Clint Hill, but don't worry about it, we all get that way at times.

And, not unlike my advice to others, when the running/jumping man reveals ALL of his secrets, then the final pieces of the puzzle will begin to come into place as regards the Z-film and the Limo speed between Z313 and Altgens position.

Mr. HILL. This is the first sound that I heard; yes, sir. I jumped from the car, realizing that something was wrong, ran to the Presidential limousine. Just about as I reached it, there was another sound, which was different than the first sound. I think I described it in my statement as though someone was shooting a revolver into a hard object--it seemed to have some type of an echo

Between the time I originally grabbed the handhold and until I was up on the car, Mrs. Kennedy--the second noise that I heard had removed a portion of the President's head, and he had slumped noticeably to his left.

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Mr. SPECTER. Now, did the impact on the President's head occur simultaneously, before, or after the second noise which you have described?

Mr. HILL. Almost simultaneously.

Just about as I reached it, there was another sound,

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Mr. SPECTER. Was there any conversation by anybody else in the President's automobile from the time of the shooting to the arrival at Parkland Hospital?

Mr. HILL. I heard Special Agent Kellerman say on the radio, "To the nearest hospital, quick."

Mr. SPECTER. Any other comment?

Mr. HILL. He said, "We have been hit."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes. Good. There was enough for me to verify that the man was hit. So, in the same motion I come right back and grabbed the speaker and said to the driver, "Let's get out of here; we are hit," and grabbed the mike and I said, "Lawson, this is Kellerman,"--this is Lawson, who is in the front car. "We are hit; get us to the hospital immediately." Now, in the seconds that I talked just now, a flurry of shells come into the car. I then looked back and this time Mr. Hill, who was riding on the left front bumper of our followup car, was on the back trunk of that car;

Mr. KELLERMAN. I am going to say two, and it was like a double bang--bang, bang.

Mr. SPECTER. You mean now two shots in addition to the first noise?

Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir; yes, sir; at least.

Mr. SPECTER. How soon thereafter did the flurry of shots come?

Mr. KELLERMAN. They came in, Mr. Specter, while I am delivering that radio message.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. HILL. I heard Special Agent Kellerman say on the radio, "To the nearest hospital, quick."

Mr. SPECTER. Any other comment?

Mr. HILL. He said, "We have been hit."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. SPECTER. To Mr. Lawson. All right. Was there any timespan which you could discern between the first and second shots and what you have described as the flurry?

Mr. KELLERMAN. I will estimate 5 seconds, if that.

Mr. SPECTER. All right. Now, when the flurry occurred then, were you still facing forward talking into the microphone to Lawson?

Mr. KELLERMAN. That is right.

Mr. KELLERMAN. When I completed the delivery of those instructions to Lawson, I just hung up the receiver and looked back.

Mr. SPECTER. To your right this time--to your left; pardon me.

Mr. KELLERMAN. To my left; that is right. This is when I first viewed Mr. Hill, who was on the back of the--

Mr. SPECTER. Precisely where was he in that instant?

Mr. KELLERMAN. Lying right across the trunk of the car with Mrs. Kennedy on the left rear, Mr. Hill's head was right up in back of her.

Mr. KELLERMAN. Our car accelerated immediately on the time-at the time--this flurry of shots came into it.

Mr. SPECTER. Would you say the acceleration--

Mr. KELLERMAN. Between the second and third shot.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. HILL. This is the first sound that I heard; yes, sir. I jumped from the car, realizing that something was wrong, ran to the Presidential limousine. Just about as I reached it, there was another sound, which was different than the first sound. I think I described it in my statement as though someone was shooting a revolver into a hard object--it seemed to have some type of an echo. I put my right foot, I believe it was, on the left rear step of the automobile, and I had a hold of the handgrip with my hand, when the car lurched forward. I lost my footing and I had to run about three or four more steps before I could get back up in the car.

Between the time I originally grabbed the handhold and until I was up on the car, Mrs. Kennedy--the second noise that I heard had removed a portion of the President's head,

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. SPECTER. Now, to the best of your ability to recollect, exactly when did your automobile first accelerate?

Mr. KELLERMAN. Our car accelerated immediately on the time-at the time--this flurry of shots came into it.

Mr. SPECTER. Would you say the acceleration--

Mr. KELLERMAN. Between the second and third shot.

Senator COOPER. A few minutes ago you said in response to a question that when you spoke to the driver the car leaped forward from an acceleration immediately. Did that acceleration occur before the second shot was fired?

Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir. Just about the time that it came in.

Senator COOPER. About the time it came in?

Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir.

Senator COOPER. Not before?

Mr. KELLERMAN. No.

Senator COOPER. When you were speaking of a flurry of shots, was there a longer interval between the first shot and the second shot as compared to the interval between the second shot and the third shot?

Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/sa-greer.htm

After the second shot, I glanced over my right shoulder and saw Governor Connally start to fall, I knew then that something was wrong and I immediately pushed the accelerator to the floor and Mr. Kellerman said, get out of here.

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z317.jpg

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Mr. KELLERMAN. Our car accelerated immediately on the time-at the time--this flurry of shots came into it.

Mr. SPECTER. Would you say the acceleration--

Mr. KELLERMAN. Between the second and third shot.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. HILL. This is the first sound that I heard; yes, sir. I jumped from the car, realizing that something was wrong, ran to the Presidential limousine. Just about as I reached it, there was another sound, which was different than the first sound. I think I described it in my statement as though someone was shooting a revolver into a hard object--it seemed to have some type of an echo. I put my right foot, I believe it was, on the left rear step of the automobile, and I had a hold of the handgrip with my hand, when the car lurched forward. I lost my footing and I had to run about three or four more steps before I could get back up in the car.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. SPECTER. Do you have an independent recollection at this moment of having heard three shots at that time?

Mr. GREER. I knew that after I heard the second one, that is when I looked over my shoulder, and I was conscious that there was something wrong, because that is when I saw Governor Connally. And when I turned around again, to the best of my recollection there was another one, right immediately after.

Mr. SPECTER. How much time elapsed, to the best of your ability to estimate and recollect, between the time of the second noise and the time of the third noise?

Mr. GREER. The last two seemed to be just simultaneously, one behind the other, but I don't recollect just how much, how many seconds were between the two. I couldn't really say.

Mr. GREER. The second one didn't sound any different much than the first one but I kind of got, by turning around, I don't know whether I got a little concussion of it, maybe when it hit something or not, I may have gotten a little concussion that made me think there was something different to it. But so far as the noise is concerned, I haven't got any memory of any difference in them at all.

Mr. SPECTER. Describe as best you can the sound of the third noise.

Mr. GREER. Just, to me it was similar, to the first two. They all sounded practically the same to me.

Mr. SPECTER. You testified that at the second noise you glanced over your shoulder.

Mr. GREER. Yes, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Which shoulder did you glance over?

Mr. GREER. Right shoulder.

Mr. SPECTER. And describe or indicate how far you turned your head to the right at that time?

Mr. GREER. Just so that my eyes over, caught the Governor, I could see, I couldn't see the President. I just could see the Governor. I made a quick glance and back again.

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z317.jpg

Mr. SPECTER. Exactly where was Governor Connally when you first caught him out of the corner of your eye?

Mr. GREER. He was--he seemed to be falling a little bit toward Mrs. Connally, to the left. He started to go over a little bit to the left.

Mr. SPECTER. And how far did you catch his movement during the time you were able to observe him?

Mr. GREER. Just a second. He probably hadn't gotten his shoulder, he hadn't fell down or anything. He probably was in a position such as I am now.

Mr. SPECTER. Did he fall to the rear or to the side or how?

Mr. GREER. In my opinion, he fell toward Mrs. Connally which would be to his left or to his side.

Mr. SPECTER. Did he fall then on his left shoulder and arm or in some other way?

Mr. GREER. He appeared to me to be falling on his left shoulder when I glanced. He had only started to move that way whenever he--when I saw him.

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Mrs. CONNALLY. I just pulled him over into my arms because it would have been impossible to get us really both down with me sitting and me holding him. So that I looked out, I mean as he was in my arms, I put my head down over his head so that his head and my head were right together, and all I could see, too, were the people flashing by. I didn't look back any more. The third shot that I heard I felt, it felt like spent buckshot falling all over us, and then, of course, I too could see that it was the matter, brain tissue, or whatever, just human matter, all over the car and both of us.

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Mrs. CONNALLY. I heard--you know how we were seated in the car, the President and Mrs. Kennedy, John was in front of the President and I was seated in front of Mrs. Kennedy--I heard a noise that I didn't think of as a gunshot. I just heard a disturbing noise and turned to my right from where I thought the noise had come and looked in the back and saw the President clutch his neck with both hands.

He said nothing. He just sort of slumped down in the seat. John had turned to his right also when we heard that first noise and shouted, "no, no, no," and in the process of turning back around so that he could look back and see the President--I don't think he could see him when he turned to his right--the second shot was fired and hit him. He was in the process of turning, so it hit him through this shoulder, came out right about here. His hand was either right in front of him or on his knee as he turned to look so that the bullet went through him, crushed his wrist and lodged in his leg. And then he just recoiled and just sort of slumped in his seat.

I thought he was dead. When you see a big man totally defenseless like that, then you do whatever you think you can do to help most and the only thing I could think of to do was to pull him down out of the line of fire, or whatever was happening to us and I thought if I could get him down, maybe they wouldn't hurt him anymore. So, I pulled him down in my lap.

Then, I heard a third shot and felt matter cover us and she said, "They have killed my husband, I have his brains in my hand". I thought was John was dead, and I heard the Secret Service man say, "Let's get out of here quick."

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Mr. HILL. At the time of the shooting, when I got into the rear of the car, she said, "My God, they have shot his head off."

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Governor CONNALLY: so I reclined with my head in her lap, conscious all the time, and with my eyes open; and then, of course, the third shot sounded, and I heard the shot very clearly. I heard it hit him. I heard the shot hit something, and I assumed again--it never entered my mind that it ever hit anybody but the President. I heard it hit. It was a very loud noise, just that audible, very clear.

Immediately I could see on my clothes, my clothing, I could see on the interior of the car which, as I recall, was a pale blue, brain tissue, which I immediately recognized, and I recall very well, on my trousers there was one chunk of brain tissue as big as almost my thumb, thumbnail,

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z321.jpg

Governor, you have described hearing a first shot and a third shot. Did you hear a second shot?

Governor CONNALLY. No; I did not.

because when the third shot was fired I was in a reclining position, and heard it, saw it and the effects of it, rather--I didn't see it, I saw the effects of it--so it obviously could not have been the third, and couldn't have been the first, in my judgment.

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http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/m_j_russ/hscacon.htm

Mr. CONNALLY: was in her lap facing forward when another shot was fired. I only heard two shots. I did not hear the shot that hit me. I wasn't conscious of it. I am sure I heard it, but I was not conscious of it at all. I heard another shot. I heard it hit. It hit with a very pronounced impact, just [slap of hands] almost like that. Almost that loud a sound; it made a very, very strong sound.

Immediately, I could see blood and brain tissue all over the interior of the car and all over our clothes. We were both covered with brain tissue, and there were pieces of brain tissue as big as your little finger. It was something that was unmistakable. There was no question in my mind about what it was.

About this moment in time, Roy Kellerman, who was the Secret Service agent sitting in the right-front seat, pushed, apparently was pushing some buttons on the panel, doing what, I don't know. I heard him say, "Let's get out of here fast," and the car lurched forward then. Bill Greer was the driver. He accelerated it tremendously.

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Mr. ALTGENS : There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing,

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol22_0411a.htm

Altgens stated pieces of flesh, blood and bone appeared to fly from the right side of the President's head and pass in front of Mrs. Kennedy..

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http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/m_j_russ/hscacon.htm

Mrs. CONNALLY: Then, I heard a third shot and felt matter cover us and she said, "They have killed my husband, I have his brains in my hand".

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Mr. SPECTER. When, in relation to the shots, Mr. Kellerman, did you notice the substance in the air?

Mr. KELLERMAN. Fine. When I have given the orders to Mr. Lawson, this is when it all came between the driver and myself.

Mr. SPECTER. Can you describe what it was in a little more detail as it appeared to you at that time?

Mr. KELLERMAN. This is a rather poor comparison, but let's say you take a little handful of matter--I am going to use sawdust for want of a better item--and just

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http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/m_j_russ/hscacon.htm

Mrs. CONNALLY:Then, I heard a third shot and felt matter cover us and she said, "They have killed my husband, I have his brains in my hand". I thought was John was dead, and I heard the Secret Service man say, "Let's get out of here quick."

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Mr. SPECTER. Do you recollect whether you accelerated before or at the same time or after the third shot?

Mr. GREER. I couldn't really say. Just as soon as I turned my head back from the second shot, right away I accelerated right then. It was a matter of my reflexes to the accelerator.

Mr. SPECTER. Was it at about that time that you heard the third shot?

Mr. GREER. Yes, sir; just as soon as I turned my head.

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Mr. HILL. This is the first sound that I heard; yes, sir. I jumped from the car, realizing that something was wrong, ran to the Presidential limousine. Just about as I reached it, there was another sound, which was different than the first sound. I think I described it in my statement as though someone was shooting a revolver into a hard object--it seemed to have some type of an echo. I put my right foot, I believe it was, on the left rear step of the automobile, and I had a hold of the handgrip with my hand, when the car lurched forward. I lost my footing and I had to run about three or four more steps before I could get back up in the car.

Mr. SPECTER. Can you characterize the type of acceleration which the car made after it started to speed forward- that is, the Presidential car.

Mr. HILL. Well, the initial surge was quite violent, because it almost jerked me off the left rear step board. Then after that it was apparently gradual, because I did not notice it any more.

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Lastly, a review of the testimony of Lyndal Shaneyfelt will reveal that according to him, Agent Clint Hill first placed one hand on the Presidential Limousine at Z343, which as Agent Hill has indicated, was before the Presidential Limo "surged" forward.

Thomas H. Purvis · November 2, 2006

the necessary movie file is too big to post and the image host converts it into a flash so until I work out a fix in the meantime here's a gif which shows a little bit of what can be known. The patch on the street helps to locate the sequence.
(gif)

(sorry even the gif is too big) I'll work something out, in the meantime:

# Hill attempts to leap onto the car, stumbles and instead oftrying to grip the spare tyre thingy goes for the hand hold. In doing so his hand sweeps a bit forward and this is about when Jackie starts to rise. There's a faintly seen brownish spot that Hill appears to have knocked forward from behind the tyre and this is about the spot that Jackie ends out reaching for. It's impossible to say she is picking something up.

# Jackie:: Before rising or starting to rise her left hand is behind Kennedy's neck. When her left hand leaves the neck and she starts to reach over the hood, her right hand goes behind Kennedys head and pushes it forward.

# When she starts to rise she also pushes Kennedy slightly more upright. He then doesn't slump back very much which seems to indicate that his brace is actually supporting his trunk in an upright position.

# At no time can I see any sign of Kennedy being hit. At normal speed there are at a couple of points a blur that could be mistaken for something.

If he is hit, it would seem to me to have to be just at that moment when Jackies hands are changing position and this is in front of Altgens.

# Looking at Connally at this time: Nelly pulls him down and cowers down herself. They almost disappear behind foliage.

# There are two almost stationary men, which seems curious, but they appear for only a short time and the little boy is almost stationary too.

I'll continue to look at it.

Tom, what is the primary reason for thinking Kennedy is hit a third time here? I guess one can say the primary reason for thinking he was hit at z312-3 is simply it is clearly seen in the zfilm. What about this third shot? I mean right at the start in those early days, what drew attention to that particular moment?

________________

EDIT:: here it is zipped mpg01 hopefully in a correct codec. A viewer like InterVideo allows varying frame rate, zooming, pan and stepping, to look at the various parts of the movie.

EDIT2:: name corection

Tom, what is the primary reason for thinking Kennedy is hit a third time here? I guess one can say the primary reason for thinking he was hit at z312-3 is simply it is clearly seen in the zfilm. What about this third shot? I mean right at the start in those early days, what drew attention to that particular moment?

Originally, it was merely the WC Testimony of witnesses. Unfortunately, at that point one could not go much farther even though it all indicated that a third shot strike occurred after the Z313 impact.

Secondl, the nature of the wound which the autopsy surgeons found. Strike in hairline, tunnel through soft flesh of the neck (upwards) to strike in the EOP region.

Absolutely impossible with JFK's head in any form of an erect position, with a shot from 60 feet high.

Elongated nature of the entry wound in the skull of JFK basically tells the position that his head had to be in to incur the entry wound which the autopsy surgeons found.

Lastly, when I first contacted Mr. West, it was only in regards to the WC Survey work, as it was unknown at the time that any other survey work and resulting survey plats had been generated.

In conversation with Mr. West, he informed me of the other work and asked if I wanted copies of these survey plats as well.

To which I answered absolutely, to include any and all survey notes that he could find and copy for me.

Upon receiving this material from Mr. West, suprisingly, I found that the US Secret Service had placed a third shot in the exact position that so much testimony stated that it had occurred.

And, since I had long prior resolved the issue of the first shot, there was not that much remaining that was difficult with the exception of looking up all of the sneaky little methods and diversions which the WC utilized to obscure and confuse the evidence, as well as make a thoroughly documented third shot become "Magic" and disappear.

Thomas H. Purvis · November 2, 2006

the necessary movie file is too big to post and the image host converts it into a flash so until I work out a fix in the meantime here's a gif which shows a little bit of what can be known. The patch on the street helps to locate the sequence.

(gif)

(sorry even the gif is too big) I'll work something out, in the meantime:

# Greer attempts to leap onto the car, stumbles and instead oftrying to grip the spare tyre thingy goes for the hand hold. In doing so his hand sweeps a bit forward and this is about when Jackie starts to rise. There's a faintly seen brownish spot that Greer appears to have knocked forward from behind the tyre and this is about the spot that Jackie ends out reaching for. It's impossible to say she is picking something up.

# Jackie:: Before rising or starting to rise her left hand is behind Kennedy's neck. When her left hand leaves the neck and she starts to reach over the hood, her right hand goes behind Kennedys head and pushes it forward.

# When she starts to rise she also pushes Kennedy slightly more upright. He then doesn't slump back very much which seems to indicate that his brace is actually supporting his trunk in an upright position.

# At no time can I see any sign of Kennedy being hit. At normal speed there are at a couple of points a blur that could be mistaken for something.

If he is hit, it would seem to me to have to be just at that moment when Jackies hands are changing position and this is in front of Altgens.

# Looking at Connally at this time: Nelly pulls him down and cowers down herself. They almost disappear behind foliage.

# There are two almost stationary men, which seems curious, but they appear for only a short time and the little boy is almost stationary too.

I'll continue to look at it.

Tom, what is the primary reason for thinking Kennedy is hit a third time here? I guess one can say the primary reason for thinking he was hit at z312-3 is simply it is clearly seen in the zfilm. What about this third shot? I mean right at the start in those early days, what drew attention to that particular moment?

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z340.jpg

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z341.jpg

# Greer attempts to leap onto the car, stumbles and instead oftrying to grip the spare tyre thingy goes for the hand hold. In doing so his hand sweeps a bit forward and this is about when Jackie starts to rise. There's a faintly seen brownish spot that Greer appears to have knocked forward from behind the tyre and this is about the spot that Jackie ends out reaching for. It's impossible to say she is picking something up.

It's Clint Hill, but don't worry about it, we all get that way at times.

And, not unlike my advice to others, when the running/jumping man reveals ALL of his secrets, then the final pieces of the puzzle will begin to come into place as regards the Z-film and the Limo speed between Z313 and Altgens position.

Mr. HILL. This is the first sound that I heard; yes, sir. I jumped from the car, realizing that something was wrong, ran to the Presidential limousine. Just about as I reached it, there was another sound, which was different than the first sound. I think I described it in my statement as though someone was shooting a revolver into a hard object--it seemed to have some type of an echo

Between the time I originally grabbed the handhold and until I was up on the car, Mrs. Kennedy--the second noise that I heard had removed a portion of the President's head, and he had slumped noticeably to his left.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. SPECTER. Now, did the impact on the President's head occur simultaneously, before, or after the second noise which you have described?

Mr. HILL. Almost simultaneously.

Just about as I reached it, there was another sound,

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Mr. SPECTER. Was there any conversation by anybody else in the President's automobile from the time of the shooting to the arrival at Parkland Hospital?

Mr. HILL. I heard Special Agent Kellerman say on the radio, "To the nearest hospital, quick."

Mr. SPECTER. Any other comment?

Mr. HILL. He said, "We have been hit."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes. Good. There was enough for me to verify that the man was hit. So, in the same motion I come right back and grabbed the speaker and said to the driver, "Let's get out of here; we are hit," and grabbed the mike and I said, "Lawson, this is Kellerman,"--this is Lawson, who is in the front car. "We are hit; get us to the hospital immediately." Now, in the seconds that I talked just now, a flurry of shells come into the car. I then looked back and this time Mr. Hill, who was riding on the left front bumper of our followup car, was on the back trunk of that car;

Mr. KELLERMAN. I am going to say two, and it was like a double bang--bang, bang.

Mr. SPECTER. You mean now two shots in addition to the first noise?

Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir; yes, sir; at least.

Mr. SPECTER. How soon thereafter did the flurry of shots come?

Mr. KELLERMAN. They came in, Mr. Specter, while I am delivering that radio message.

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Mr. HILL. I heard Special Agent Kellerman say on the radio, "To the nearest hospital, quick."

Mr. SPECTER. Any other comment?

Mr. HILL. He said, "We have been hit."

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Mr. SPECTER. To Mr. Lawson. All right. Was there any timespan which you could discern between the first and second shots and what you have described as the flurry?

Mr. KELLERMAN. I will estimate 5 seconds, if that.

Mr. SPECTER. All right. Now, when the flurry occurred then, were you still facing forward talking into the microphone to Lawson?

Mr. KELLERMAN. That is right.

Mr. KELLERMAN. When I completed the delivery of those instructions to Lawson, I just hung up the receiver and looked back.

Mr. SPECTER. To your right this time--to your left; pardon me.

Mr. KELLERMAN. To my left; that is right. This is when I first viewed Mr. Hill, who was on the back of the--

Mr. SPECTER. Precisely where was he in that instant?

Mr. KELLERMAN. Lying right across the trunk of the car with Mrs. Kennedy on the left rear, Mr. Hill's head was right up in back of her.

Mr. KELLERMAN. Our car accelerated immediately on the time-at the time--this flurry of shots came into it.

Mr. SPECTER. Would you say the acceleration--

Mr. KELLERMAN. Between the second and third shot.

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Mr. HILL. This is the first sound that I heard; yes, sir. I jumped from the car, realizing that something was wrong, ran to the Presidential limousine. Just about as I reached it, there was another sound, which was different than the first sound. I think I described it in my statement as though someone was shooting a revolver into a hard object--it seemed to have some type of an echo. I put my right foot, I believe it was, on the left rear step of the automobile, and I had a hold of the handgrip with my hand, when the car lurched forward. I lost my footing and I had to run about three or four more steps before I could get back up in the car.

Between the time I originally grabbed the handhold and until I was up on the car, Mrs. Kennedy--the second noise that I heard had removed a portion of the President's head,

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Mr. SPECTER. Now, to the best of your ability to recollect, exactly when did your automobile first accelerate?

Mr. KELLERMAN. Our car accelerated immediately on the time-at the time--this flurry of shots came into it.

Mr. SPECTER. Would you say the acceleration--

Mr. KELLERMAN. Between the second and third shot.

Senator COOPER. A few minutes ago you said in response to a question that when you spoke to the driver the car leaped forward from an acceleration immediately. Did that acceleration occur before the second shot was fired?

Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir. Just about the time that it came in.

Senator COOPER. About the time it came in?

Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir.

Senator COOPER. Not before?

Mr. KELLERMAN. No.

Senator COOPER. When you were speaking of a flurry of shots, was there a longer interval between the first shot and the second shot as compared to the interval between the second shot and the third shot?

Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir.

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http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/sa-greer.htm

After the second shot, I glanced over my right shoulder and saw Governor Connally start to fall, I knew then that something was wrong and I immediately pushed the accelerator to the floor and Mr. Kellerman said, get out of here.

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z317.jpg

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Mr. KELLERMAN. Our car accelerated immediately on the time-at the time--this flurry of shots came into it.

Mr. SPECTER. Would you say the acceleration--

Mr. KELLERMAN. Between the second and third shot.

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Mr. HILL. This is the first sound that I heard; yes, sir. I jumped from the car, realizing that something was wrong, ran to the Presidential limousine. Just about as I reached it, there was another sound, which was different than the first sound. I think I described it in my statement as though someone was shooting a revolver into a hard object--it seemed to have some type of an echo. I put my right foot, I believe it was, on the left rear step of the automobile, and I had a hold of the handgrip with my hand, when the car lurched forward. I lost my footing and I had to run about three or four more steps before I could get back up in the car.

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Mr. SPECTER. Do you have an independent recollection at this moment of having heard three shots at that time?

Mr. GREER. I knew that after I heard the second one, that is when I looked over my shoulder, and I was conscious that there was something wrong, because that is when I saw Governor Connally. And when I turned around again, to the best of my recollection there was another one, right immediately after.

Mr. SPECTER. How much time elapsed, to the best of your ability to estimate and recollect, between the time of the second noise and the time of the third noise?

Mr. GREER. The last two seemed to be just simultaneously, one behind the other, but I don't recollect just how much, how many seconds were between the two. I couldn't really say.

Mr. GREER. The second one didn't sound any different much than the first one but I kind of got, by turning around, I don't know whether I got a little concussion of it, maybe when it hit something or not, I may have gotten a little concussion that made me think there was something different to it. But so far as the noise is concerned, I haven't got any memory of any difference in them at all.

Mr. SPECTER. Describe as best you can the sound of the third noise.

Mr. GREER. Just, to me it was similar, to the first two. They all sounded practically the same to me.

Mr. SPECTER. You testified that at the second noise you glanced over your shoulder.

Mr. GREER. Yes, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Which shoulder did you glance over?

Mr. GREER. Right shoulder.

Mr. SPECTER. And describe or indicate how far you turned your head to the right at that time?

Mr. GREER. Just so that my eyes over, caught the Governor, I could see, I couldn't see the President. I just could see the Governor. I made a quick glance and back again.

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z317.jpg

Mr. SPECTER. Exactly where was Governor Connally when you first caught him out of the corner of your eye?

Mr. GREER. He was--he seemed to be falling a little bit toward Mrs. Connally, to the left. He started to go over a little bit to the left.

Mr. SPECTER. And how far did you catch his movement during the time you were able to observe him?

Mr. GREER. Just a second. He probably hadn't gotten his shoulder, he hadn't fell down or anything. He probably was in a position such as I am now.

Mr. SPECTER. Did he fall to the rear or to the side or how?

Mr. GREER. In my opinion, he fell toward Mrs. Connally which would be to his left or to his side.

Mr. SPECTER. Did he fall then on his left shoulder and arm or in some other way?

Mr. GREER. He appeared to me to be falling on his left shoulder when I glanced. He had only started to move that way whenever he--when I saw him.

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Mrs. CONNALLY. I just pulled him over into my arms because it would have been impossible to get us really both down with me sitting and me holding him. So that I looked out, I mean as he was in my arms, I put my head down over his head so that his head and my head were right together, and all I could see, too, were the people flashing by. I didn't look back any more. The third shot that I heard I felt, it felt like spent buckshot falling all over us, and then, of course, I too could see that it was the matter, brain tissue, or whatever, just human matter, all over the car and both of us.

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Mrs. CONNALLY. I heard--you know how we were seated in the car, the President and Mrs. Kennedy, John was in front of the President and I was seated in front of Mrs. Kennedy--I heard a noise that I didn't think of as a gunshot. I just heard a disturbing noise and turned to my right from where I thought the noise had come and looked in the back and saw the President clutch his neck with both hands.

He said nothing. He just sort of slumped down in the seat. John had turned to his right also when we heard that first noise and shouted, "no, no, no," and in the process of turning back around so that he could look back and see the President--I don't think he could see him when he turned to his right--the second shot was fired and hit him. He was in the process of turning, so it hit him through this shoulder, came out right about here. His hand was either right in front of him or on his knee as he turned to look so that the bullet went through him, crushed his wrist and lodged in his leg. And then he just recoiled and just sort of slumped in his seat.

I thought he was dead. When you see a big man totally defenseless like that, then you do whatever you think you can do to help most and the only thing I could think of to do was to pull him down out of the line of fire, or whatever was happening to us and I thought if I could get him down, maybe they wouldn't hurt him anymore. So, I pulled him down in my lap.

Then, I heard a third shot and felt matter cover us and she said, "They have killed my husband, I have his brains in my hand". I thought was John was dead, and I heard the Secret Service man say, "Let's get out of here quick."

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Mr. HILL. At the time of the shooting, when I got into the rear of the car, she said, "My God, they have shot his head off."

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Governor CONNALLY: so I reclined with my head in her lap, conscious all the time, and with my eyes open; and then, of course, the third shot sounded, and I heard the shot very clearly. I heard it hit him. I heard the shot hit something, and I assumed again--it never entered my mind that it ever hit anybody but the President. I heard it hit. It was a very loud noise, just that audible, very clear.

Immediately I could see on my clothes, my clothing, I could see on the interior of the car which, as I recall, was a pale blue, brain tissue, which I immediately recognized, and I recall very well, on my trousers there was one chunk of brain tissue as big as almost my thumb, thumbnail,

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z321.jpg

Governor, you have described hearing a first shot and a third shot. Did you hear a second shot?

Governor CONNALLY. No; I did not.

because when the third shot was fired I was in a reclining position, and heard it, saw it and the effects of it, rather--I didn't see it, I saw the effects of it--so it obviously could not have been the third, and couldn't have been the first, in my judgment.

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http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/m_j_russ/hscacon.htm

Mr. CONNALLY: was in her lap facing forward when another shot was fired. I only heard two shots. I did not hear the shot that hit me. I wasn't conscious of it. I am sure I heard it, but I was not conscious of it at all. I heard another shot. I heard it hit. It hit with a very pronounced impact, just [slap of hands] almost like that. Almost that loud a sound; it made a very, very strong sound.

Immediately, I could see blood and brain tissue all over the interior of the car and all over our clothes. We were both covered with brain tissue, and there were pieces of brain tissue as big as your little finger. It was something that was unmistakable. There was no question in my mind about what it was.

About this moment in time, Roy Kellerman, who was the Secret Service agent sitting in the right-front seat, pushed, apparently was pushing some buttons on the panel, doing what, I don't know. I heard him say, "Let's get out of here fast," and the car lurched forward then. Bill Greer was the driver. He accelerated it tremendously.

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Mr. ALTGENS : There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing,

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol22_0411a.htm

Altgens stated pieces of flesh, blood and bone appeared to fly from the right side of the President's head and pass in front of Mrs. Kennedy..

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http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/m_j_russ/hscacon.htm

Mrs. CONNALLY: Then, I heard a third shot and felt matter cover us and she said, "They have killed my husband, I have his brains in my hand".

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Mr. SPECTER. When, in relation to the shots, Mr. Kellerman, did you notice the substance in the air?

Mr. KELLERMAN. Fine. When I have given the orders to Mr. Lawson, this is when it all came between the driver and myself.

Mr. SPECTER. Can you describe what it was in a little more detail as it appeared to you at that time?

Mr. KELLERMAN. This is a rather poor comparison, but let's say you take a little handful of matter--I am going to use sawdust for want of a better item--and just

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http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/m_j_russ/hscacon.htm

Mrs. CONNALLY:Then, I heard a third shot and felt matter cover us and she said, "They have killed my husband, I have his brains in my hand". I thought was John was dead, and I heard the Secret Service man say, "Let's get out of here quick."

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Mr. SPECTER. Do you recollect whether you accelerated before or at the same time or after the third shot?

Mr. GREER. I couldn't really say. Just as soon as I turned my head back from the second shot, right away I accelerated right then. It was a matter of my reflexes to the accelerator.

Mr. SPECTER. Was it at about that time that you heard the third shot?

Mr. GREER. Yes, sir; just as soon as I turned my head.

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Mr. HILL. This is the first sound that I heard; yes, sir. I jumped from the car, realizing that something was wrong, ran to the Presidential limousine. Just about as I reached it, there was another sound, which was different than the first sound. I think I described it in my statement as though someone was shooting a revolver into a hard object--it seemed to have some type of an echo. I put my right foot, I believe it was, on the left rear step of the automobile, and I had a hold of the handgrip with my hand, when the car lurched forward. I lost my footing and I had to run about three or four more steps before I could get back up in the car.

Mr. SPECTER. Can you characterize the type of acceleration which the car made after it started to speed forward- that is, the Presidential car.

Mr. HILL. Well, the initial surge was quite violent, because it almost jerked me off the left rear step board. Then after that it was apparently gradual, because I did not notice it any more.

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Lastly, a review of the testimony of Lyndal Shaneyfelt will reveal that according to him, Agent Clint Hill first placed one hand on the Presidential Limousine at Z343, which as Agent Hill has indicated, was before the Presidential Limo "surged" forward.

John;

Now we could go back and re-list the half dozen or so witnesses who accurately reported and described that the shot to the head of JFK at Z313 was the second shot fired, but since I long ago did that also, it would serve little purpose.

The answers to the assassination of JFK, for the most part, can be found within the WC. NOT within those books which progressively guide one deeper and deeper into "Alice's" wonderland world of never ceasing rabbit holes of multiple assassins, body kidnappers, and wound alterers.

Due to the progressive confusion surrounding the assassination, more and more persons have obviously felt it safe to claim just about anything, as it seemed that no one was likely to disprove these claims.

Therefore, we have the continuation of the garbage, as well as those who are adequately blinded by it to the extent that they too take up the cause.

It is another of those fallacies of human nature/the species.

Personally, I took my marbles and withdrew from the game long ago when it was observed exactly how gullible many are as well as how easily they can be mislead.

And since I fought for the rights of all americans to be exactly as misguided and stupid as they wish to be, then who am I to say that they do not have that right.

Just that now, with the Internet, there are those such as Pat Speer, David Healy, and still the great ones such as Josiah Thompson, who deserve some answers as they have taken it as far as they could with what avenues/doors remain open to them.

As one can see from the Ft. Stockton paper, I most certainly am not some "new guy" to this.

Just that it is best to fly under the radar until one has a full load of ammunition and has a few reinforcements of their own.

Thomas H. Purvis · November 2, 2006