A new workers' party

[Derek McMillan]

*Campaign for a New Workers’ Party Conference

*Saturday 12 May 12 – 5 pm (registration opens at 11 am)

University College London,

Cruciform Building,

Gower St,

London WC1

(nearest tubes Euston, Euston Square and Goodge St)

"New Labour, my arse!"

Ricky Tomlinson addressed the meeting of about 250 in Liverpool on 12 Feb . Older readers will remember the Shrewsbury Two, imprisoned for trade union organisation. Ricky was one of them.

“Tony Blair has disembowelled the Labour Party. It’s not New Labour, it’s the New Phoney Labour Party and a growing number of people are fed up with it. We’ve now got to stop the rot.”

The current choice, he says, between New Labour, the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats, represents no choice at all.

“There are loads of groups that have set up in opposition but we’ve got to bring all the different socialist parties together to form one powerful new party that can win elections.

“There’s got to be one unified, left wing party that has the interests of the working class at heart.

“Why am I doing this? Sometimes you have to put yourself up as an Aunt Sally. I’ve been at the bottom of the ladder. I’ve had my house repossessed. I’ve been blacklisted. I’ve been unemployed.

“But I have got lucky – I got a wonderful job, earned good money and travelled to places all over the world that I never thought I’d see. I know what is the best out of those two and I want other people to have as many opportunities in life as possible.”

[Guest Stephen Turner]

*Campaign for a New Workers’ Party Conference

*Saturday 12 May 12 – 5 pm (registration opens at 11 am)

University College London,

Cruciform Building,

Gower St,

London WC1

(nearest tubes Euston, Euston Square and Goodge St)

"New Labour, my arse!"

Ricky Tomlinson addressed the meeting of about 250 in Liverpool on 12 Feb . Older readers will remember the Shrewsbury Two, imprisoned for trade union organisation. Ricky was one of them.

“Tony Blair has disembowelled the Labour Party. It’s not New Labour, it’s the New Phoney Labour Party and a growing number of people are fed up with it. We’ve now got to stop the rot.”

The current choice, he says, between New Labour, the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats, represents no choice at all.

“There are loads of groups that have set up in opposition but we’ve got to bring all the different socialist parties together to form one powerful new party that can win elections.

“There’s got to be one unified, left wing party that has the interests of the working class at heart.

“Why am I doing this? Sometimes you have to put yourself up as an Aunt Sally. I’ve been at the bottom of the ladder. I’ve had my house repossessed. I’ve been blacklisted. I’ve been unemployed.

“But I have got lucky – I got a wonderful job, earned good money and travelled to places all over the world that I never thought I’d see. I know what is the best out of those two and I want other people to have as many opportunities in life as possible.”

Lets hope, that for once, delegates leave minor sectarian differences outside the debating chamber. As my Brother once observed, whilst attending a bad tempered left unification meeting, "No wonder we can't ever go foward, we hate each other worse than we hate the Capitalist class."

[Guest]

Lets hope, that for once, delegates leave minor sectarian differences outside the debating chamber. As my Brother once observed, whilst attending a bad tempered left unification meeting, "No wonder we can't ever go foward, we hate each other worse than we hate the Capitalist class."

Are we the Judean Peoples' Front?

http://www.mwscomp.com/movies/brian/brian-07.htm

[Guest Stephen Turner]

Lets hope, that for once, delegates leave minor sectarian differences outside the debating chamber. As my Brother once observed, whilst attending a bad tempered left unification meeting, "No wonder we can't ever go foward, we hate each other worse than we hate the Capitalist class."

Are we the Judean Peoples' Front?

http://www.mwscomp.com/movies/brian/brian-07.htm

Judean Peoples Front @*$£ ~ off, SPLITTER!!!!!

Edited March 27, 2007 by Stephen Turner

[Guest]

Lets hope, that for once, delegates leave minor sectarian differences outside the debating chamber. As my Brother once observed, whilst attending a bad tempered left unification meeting, "No wonder we can't ever go foward, we hate each other worse than we hate the Capitalist class."

Are we the Judean Peoples' Front?

http://www.mwscomp.com/movies/brian/brian-07.htm

No he's down the front, SPLITTER!!!!!

That Monty Python scene makes a very pertinent point about tiny far left political groups - their hatred of their rivals is indeed stronger than their commitment to their "cause". I have first hand experience of this when at University I was attacked by a number of thugs from Militant Tendency for selling a rival publication - the ideological differences between the two were minimal.

I wonder why this is the case? Maybe it is something to do with the essential paranoia that often goes hand in hand with an historicist mindset??

[Derek McMillan]

I am sorry you were "attacked by a number of thugs from the Militant tendency".

Seriously I think the reason people debate so fiercely (and I assure you attacking people is not on my agenda) is because the issues matter to them a lot.

The minor differences with the SWP have now reached the stage where they play down their opposition to homophobia in order to woo the muslim community. Rather more than a "minor difference" don't you think?

[Derek McMillan]

The NUT came up with a compromise on the political fund. The union has established a political fund but in a bid to prevent local associations raising money for what would be termed extreme candidates the NUT will continue not to provide support for particular candidates.

However as the PCS has done, they will be able to question candidates on issues like teachers' pay, privatisation, academies etc and circulate the answers (or refusals to give a straight answer!) to members.

As socialist councillor Jackie Grunsell mentioned, advising people not to vote BNP when the only alternative is New Labour (cuts, privatisation and war) or the Tories (ditto) then it will be less effective.

And incidentally one of the "minor differences" now being debated is the attitude towards Iran's nuclear weapons. Not that minor an issue I wouldn't have thought. Can anyone support the right of the Iranian regime to impoverish its people to pursue nuclear weapons?

[Guest]

The minor differences with the SWP have now reached the stage where they play down their opposition to homophobia in order to woo the muslim community. Rather more than a "minor difference" don't you think?

Bloody spiltters :lol:

I was in the Socialist party not the SWP dear boy.

[John Simkin]

*Campaign for a New Workers’ Party Conference

*Saturday 12 May 12 – 5 pm (registration opens at 11 am)

University College London,

Cruciform Building,

Gower St,

London WC1

(nearest tubes Euston, Euston Square and Goodge St)

"New Labour, my arse!"

Ricky Tomlinson addressed the meeting of about 250 in Liverpool on 12 Feb . Older readers will remember the Shrewsbury Two, imprisoned for trade union organisation. Ricky was one of them.

“Tony Blair has disembowelled the Labour Party. It’s not New Labour, it’s the New Phoney Labour Party and a growing number of people are fed up with it. We’ve now got to stop the rot.”

The current choice, he says, between New Labour, the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats, represents no choice at all.

“There are loads of groups that have set up in opposition but we’ve got to bring all the different socialist parties together to form one powerful new party that can win elections.

“There’s got to be one unified, left wing party that has the interests of the working class at heart.

“Why am I doing this? Sometimes you have to put yourself up as an Aunt Sally. I’ve been at the bottom of the ladder. I’ve had my house repossessed. I’ve been blacklisted. I’ve been unemployed.

“But I have got lucky – I got a wonderful job, earned good money and travelled to places all over the world that I never thought I’d see. I know what is the best out of those two and I want other people to have as many opportunities in life as possible.”

Have you seen this thread?

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=9750

Is this united worker's party targeting the middle class?

[Derek McMillan]

Now come off it Andy. The SPGB (as it then was) is not remotely "close" to any other group in the UK. There are not "minor" differences. They regarded the USSR as capitalist and trade unions as an arm of the capitalist state

If you want to discuss this the moderated group for Campaign for a New Workers Party Teachers is

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CNWPteachers/

We are serious. Unlike the erstwhile SPGB I suspect.

[Guest]

Now come off it Andy. The SPGB (as it then was) is not remotely "close" to any other group in the UK. There are not "minor" differences. They regarded the USSR as capitalist and trade unions as an arm of the capitalist state

If you want to discuss this the moderated group for Campaign for a New Workers Party Teachers is

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CNWPteachers/

We are serious. Unlike the erstwhile SPGB I suspect.

Naively I expected another 'Marxist' group to have at least not tried to cave my head in for being and I quote a "scab on the Soviet Union".

Incidentally I would have been about as surprised if an avertly "socialist" group has physically attacked me for me being opposed to Hitler's Germany.

Socialism is not a complicated idea but its understanding and application does require an intellectual and emotional level of maturity from the majority greater than the will to lead and the necessity to be "right".

[Derek McMillan]

I don't support hooliganism in any shape or form and the Militant tendency (as it then was) was founded on an opposition to hooligan tactics.

And I cannot imagine why anyone would want to offer violence to the SPGB. They might have been irritating but hardly a threat to anyone or anything.

In any case this must have been a long time ago. And the issue today is the collossal betrayal of the Labour Party and the need to create an alternative. Do you have any thoughts about that?

Now come off it Andy. The SPGB (as it then was) is not remotely "close" to any other group in the UK. There are not "minor" differences. They regarded the USSR as capitalist and trade unions as an arm of the capitalist state

If you want to discuss this the moderated group for Campaign for a New Workers Party Teachers is

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CNWPteachers/

We are serious. Unlike the erstwhile SPGB I suspect.

Naively I expected another 'Marxist' group to have at least not tried to cave my head in for being and I quote a "scab on the Soviet Union".

Incidentally I would have been about as surprised if an avertly "socialist" group has physically attacked me for me being opposed to Hitler's Germany.

Socialism is not a complicated idea but its understanding and application does require an intellectual and emotional level of maturity from the majority greater than the will to lead and the necessity to be "right".

[Guest]

I don't support hooliganism in any shape or form and the Militant tendency (as it then was) was founded on an opposition to hooligan tactics.

And I cannot imagine why anyone would want to offer violence to the SPGB. They might have been irritating but hardly a threat to anyone or anything.

In any case this must have been a long time ago. And the issue today is the collossal betrayal of the Labour Party and the need to create an alternative. Do you have any thoughts about that?

Now come off it Andy. The SPGB (as it then was) is not remotely "close" to any other group in the UK. There are not "minor" differences. They regarded the USSR as capitalist and trade unions as an arm of the capitalist state

If you want to discuss this the moderated group for Campaign for a New Workers Party Teachers is

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CNWPteachers/

We are serious. Unlike the erstwhile SPGB I suspect.

Naively I expected another 'Marxist' group to have at least not tried to cave my head in for being and I quote a "scab on the Soviet Union".

Incidentally I would have been about as surprised if an avertly "socialist" group has physically attacked me for me being opposed to Hitler's Germany.

Socialism is not a complicated idea but its understanding and application does require an intellectual and emotional level of maturity from the majority greater than the will to lead and the necessity to be "right".

The point, as many of us have been pointing out for a considerable length of time, is that Labour was never a "workers" party let alone a socialist one. Furthermore no number of sad Trots practising entryism in the 1980s was ever going to make it anything different. Now the same sad Trots wish to debate the creation of a New Worker's party separate from the Labour Party?? Give me strength!

Unfortunately they appear unable to understand the fundamental incompatibility of the elitist ideas of Trotskyism and Leninism with a genuine humane socialism.

If you are serious about creating alternatives to capitalism Derek then you must at first comprehend socialism.

[Derek McMillan]

I always felt the problem with the SPGB (as it then was) was that their pure version of socialism could not come into direct contact with the realities of life.

And I am amused by the idea of them calling anyone elitist.....or sectarian....or sad for that matter.

The situation is that somebody has to challenge New Labour electorally and the (imperfect) trade unions and (imperfect) community campaigns against hospital closures or privatisation are probably the best starting point for creating such an alternative.

The conference is on 12 May and you can get tickets online

http://www.cnwp.org.uk/

[Guest]

I always felt the problem with the SPGB (as it then was) was that their pure version of socialism could not come into direct contact with the realities of life.

And I am amused by the idea of them calling anyone elitist.....or sectarian....or sad for that matter.

The situation is that somebody has to challenge New Labour electorally and the (imperfect) trade unions and (imperfect) community campaigns against hospital closures or privatisation are probably the best starting point for creating such an alternative.

The conference is on 12 May and you can get tickets online

http://www.cnwp.org.uk/

Let us deal in reality here Degsy

Leninist ideology IS elitist and thus the antithesis of socialism. All the Leninist/Trotskyite parties I have ever had the misfortune to encounter have been just a little more than "imperfect" – in fact rule by any of those the spotty bourgeois "vanguards" would be infinitely far worse potentially than the elites they pretend to oppose.

If you want to oppose privatization do so with intelligence vision and theory - that would be a good starting point