NASA Warped our View of Space

[Matthew Lewis]

And again, if there are so many deadly cosmic rays in deep space, then what about the astronauts in Earth orbit? The Van Allen belts do not block cosmic rays.

[Evan Burton]

Someone I knew, who was a Kennedy Assassination expert, said he knew somebody who had a certain type of radio and tuned it into NASA's frequency when the astronauts where about to land on the moon the first time. He heard one of the astronauts say, "They're all over the place. I think they're watching us." He was talking about UFO's. And the moon was a station for them.

Kathy

That sounds suspiciously like one of the bits from 'ALTERNATIVE 3', a UK 'mockumentry' from the 70s. Although done as an elaborate April Fools prank, many conspiracy theorists have taken it as being proof of everything from the "Apollo hoax" to the existence of UFOs.

The show is full of fictional people, inaccurate dates, times, and hardware, and they said themselves that it was a stunt for entertainment purposes. This, however, has not stopped some people taking it as fact.

[Kathleen Collins]

Someone I knew, who was a Kennedy Assassination expert, said he knew somebody who had a certain type of radio and tuned it into NASA's frequency when the astronauts where about to land on the moon the first time. He heard one of the astronauts say, "They're all over the place. I think they're watching us." He was talking about UFO's. And the moon was a station for them.

Kathy

That sounds suspiciously like one of the bits from 'ALTERNATIVE 3', a UK 'mockumentry' from the 70s. Although done as an elaborate April Fools prank, many conspiracy theorists have taken it as being proof of everything from the "Apollo hoax" to the existence of UFOs.

The show is full of fictional people, inaccurate dates, times, and hardware, and they said themselves that it was a stunt for entertainment purposes. This, however, has not stopped some people taking it as fact.

Boy, would I like to tell someone on another forum his story was a hoax.

Kathy

[Evan Burton]

Kathy,

Point them here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_3

The quote I am thinking of is:

Then, according to Binder, there was this exchange:

MISSION CONTROL: What's there? malfunction(garble).Mission Control calling Apollo 11.

APOLLO 11: These babies were huge, sir. enormous, Oh, God you wouldn't believe it! I'm telling you there are other space-craft out there lined up on the far side of the crater edge. They're on the Moon watching us.

[Duane Daman]

And again, if there are so many deadly cosmic rays in deep space, then what about the astronauts in Earth orbit? The Van Allen belts do not block cosmic rays.

Wrong again Matt ... The astronauts in low earth orbit ARE protected by the Van Allen belts , which do block cosmic ray radiation ... but here's what you don't know because all you ever read are self serving nasa sites ... Deadly cosmic rays , along with various other types of radiation , are the main reason no manned missions have ever flown through the belts to land on the hot , radioactive moon ..

Scientists today are completely baffled as to how to build a craft to soft land humans on the moon , with the proper radiation shielding to keep them alive on the lunar surface.. .. In fact they are so puzzled that they are making journeys to museums where the Apollo LM's are on display , to try to figure out how those babies ever flew to the moon ..

But what a surprise is in store for them when they discover that those babies never did , and never could have, flown and soft landed on the moon , even if God was the co-pilot !

Like I have stated many times before .. the future unmanned moon missions will prove once and for all that manned missions never landed there over 38 years ago , using the computing power of a Wallmart watch and slide rule , antiquated technology .

Edited April 18, 2007 by Duane Daman

[Craig Lamson]

Wrong again Matt ... The astronauts in low earth orbit ARE protected by the Van Allen belts , which do block cosmic ray radiation ... but here's what you don't know because all you ever read are self serving nasa sites ... Deadly cosmic rays , along with various other types of radiation , are the main reason no manned missions have ever flown through the belts to land on the hot , radioactive moon ..

I confess my ignorance of the subject, so please since you claim to understand it so well, how about teaching me something. You can start with some solid peer reviewed papers that support your position.

Like I have stated many times before .. the future unmanned moon missions will prove once and for all that manned missions never landed there over 38 years ago , using the computing power of a Wallmart watch and slide rule , antiquated technology .

It's quite amazing that the 747 was designed and built during the same time frame and with the same technology as the Apollo hardware and yet it still flies today. Now how could that be?

Since it was built using such crude and antiquated methods and tools, that thing MUST be a deathtrap or worse...a complete HOAX!

Edited April 19, 2007 by Craig Lamson

[Matthew Lewis]

And again, if there are so many deadly cosmic rays in deep space, then what about the astronauts in Earth orbit? The Van Allen belts do not block cosmic rays.

Wrong again Matt ... The astronauts in low earth orbit ARE protected by the Van Allen belts , which do block cosmic ray radiation ... but here\\\'s what you don\\\'t know because all you ever read are self serving nasa sites ... Deadly cosmic rays , along with various other types of radiation , are the main reason no manned missions have ever flown through the belts to land on the hot , radioactive moon ..

Scientists today are completely baffled as to how to build a craft to soft land humans on the moon , with the proper radiation shielding to keep them alive on the lunar surface.. .. In fact they are so puzzled that they are making journeys to museums where the Apollo LM\\\'s are on display , to try to figure out how those babies ever flew to the moon ..

But what a surprise is in store for them when they discover that those babies never did , and never could have, flown and soft landed on the moon , even if God was the co-pilot !

Like I have stated many times before .. the future unmanned moon missions will prove once and for all that manned missions never landed there over 38 years ago , using the computing power of a Wallmart watch and slide rule , antiquated technology .

Nope, sorry. The lower Van Allen belts are composed of particles from the decay of cosmic rays after they have hit the atmosphere. So those rays have already gone through the Van Allen belts and were only stopped by the atmosphere. Astronauts in Earth orbit are not protected from cosmic rays by the Van Allen belts, only by the relative infrequency of dangerous high energy cosmic rays. The same thing that would protect them on a short trip to the Moon.

From here (which also shows that the cosmic radiation has a low overall intensity)

http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Di...BELTS/DI160.htm

This belt is populated by very energetic protons in the 10-100 MeV range (a byproduct of collisions by cosmic rays with atoms of the atmosphere). The cosmic radiation has a rather low intensity (comparable to starlight) and only by accumulating particles over the span of years does the inner belt reach its high intensity.

or here

http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/~rfitzp/teach...res/node22.html

The inner belt, which extends from about 1-3 Earth radii in the equatorial plane is mostly populated by protons with energies exceeding MeV. The origin of these protons is thought to be the decay of neutrons which are emitted from the Earth\\\'s atmosphere as it is bombarded by cosmic rays.

Did you actually do any research?

Edited April 19, 2007 by Matthew Lewis

[Duane Daman]

Yes , I have actually ... Of course it's not easy to find any meaningful or truthful data among all those self serving nasa sites , but they can still be found if you are patient enough to look for them ..

Here's one about radiation that you probably haven't read yet ... and if this one doesn't do it for you , then I will will happy to find more ... Oh, and just because this article is discussing Mars , don't let that throw you ... Deep space radaition includes all areas beyond the protection of the Van Allen belts .

"MARIE is Back! Space Radiation More Intense Than Believed "

"The Martian Radiation Environment Experiment - acronymically known as MARIE -- is back online and collecting more data. As the radiation monitor was fired up, MARIE's scientists reported Tuesday at the 33rd Lunar and Planetary Science Conference that the data she returned last year reveals that space radiation is even more intense than their models had indicated.

MARIE - which is on board the Mars Odyssey orbiter -- is designed to collect and characterize aspects of space radiation both on the way to the Red Planet and in the Martian orbit. Her goal is to predict the radiation doses that would be encountered by future astronauts. "What MARIE allows us is the ability to see any source of radiation - background, solar - outside the vicinity of Earth's magnetic and atmospheric system," elaborates Roger G. Gibbs, Odyssey's project manager at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL).

Space radiation - which is caused by cosmic rays emanating from the Sun and from stars beyond our solar system -- is one of the most deadly hazards human crews of interplanetary missions will confront. MARIE's findings, therefore, are vital to preparations for future human missions to Mars and other planets.

This intense form of radiation - which mostly falls in the energy range of 15 Me V to 500 Me V per nucleon - expels the kind of energy that can damage human DNA, catalyze cancer, and cause serious damage to the central nervous system. Not surprisingly, the team is, in Gibbs' word "ecstatic" that she is back in operation. "

More here .

http://www.marstoday.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=7765

[Matthew Lewis]

And again, with the longer mission needed for a trip to Mars and back, don\'t you think that makes a difference in the overall radiationthat would be acceptable? I noted that you also avoided commenting on the cosmic rays in Earth orbit.

[Duane Daman]

The cosmic rays in low earth orbit , though dangerous to some degree , do not represent the dangerous health hazzards to astronauts that they do in deep space ...

"The hazards of space travel

The ultimate vacation, a trip into deep space, is fraught with danger, primarily from energetic particles. Even in the comparative safety of low-Earth orbits, beneath the protection of Earth’s magnetic field, astronauts have reported flashing lights inside their eyes. Energetic protons, perhaps trapped in the Van Allen radiation belts, pass through the satellite walls and the astronaut’s eyelids, striking their retinas and making their eyeballs glow inside.

Once outside the Earth’s magnetosphere, astronauts are exposed to the full blast of the ever-flowing solar wind. They could then suffer serious consequences from solar energetic particles even within their spacecraft, resulting in cataracts, skin cancer or even lethal radiation poisoning."

http://ase.tufts.edu/cosmos/print_chapter.asp?id=34

Apollo sounds more like a fantasy all the time , doesn't it Matt ?

[Kevin M. West]

I recently got a sun burn from spending a couple hours in the sun. By your logic Duane (what little there is), is it unsafe for me to go outside for a couple minutes? Why?

[Duane Daman]

I have no idea what you are trying to say ... Did you even understand the article I posted ? ... Cosmic radiation is not as prevalent or as dangerous in low earth orbit , below the protection of Van Allen belts , as it is above the belts , in deep space ...

Why would it be unsafe for you to go outside on a sunny day , protected by Earth's atmosphere , which is below low Earth orbit ? ... You are sounding as desperate as Dave is now ... You boys just can't stand to be proven wrong about anything .. and when you are , you just play more games .

Edited April 23, 2007 by Duane Daman

[Kevin M. West]

Of course you don't understand, why should I have expected otherwise.

The point is exposure time. Just as 5 hours in the sun is more dangerous than 5 minutes, the future moon and mars missions will be months long as opposed to apollo's couple days. Just because the article you cut & pasted from says it's dangerous for future long term missions does not mean that the exposure was dangerous for the short duration of the apollo missions.

[Duane Daman]

Whew , what a relief ... I thought you were going to tell me that cosmic ray radiation had been found at the beach !

Do you really believe that a quick trip to the moon will spare an astronaut from the deadly effects of deep space radiation ? ... You really do only read self serving nasa sites , don't you ?

That is just the myth they want everyone to believe , because to know the truth , would mean ( God forbid ) that nobody ever landed on the moon !!!! ... .... and we can't have anyone believing that , now can we ?? LOL

Edited April 24, 2007 by Duane Daman

[Kevin M. West]

Whew , what a relief ... I thought you were going to tell me that cosmic ray radiation had been found at the beach !

It's called an analogy, guess it was over your head.

Do you really believe that a quick trip to the moon will spare an astronaut from the deadly effects of deep space radiation ? ... You really do only read self serving nasa sites , don't you ?

Yes, I absolutely believe that, because the 'deadly' effects take a long time to accumulate. That is what you refuse to believe for some reason, even though you can't do the math, don't know the science, and can only cut & paste things out of context.

That is just the myth they want everyone to believe , because to know the truth , would mean ( God forbid ) that nobody ever landed on the moon !!!! ... .... and we can't have anyone believing that , now can we ?? LOL

No, can't have them believing your foolishness, I prefer the truth.