Virginia Tech Spree Killer

[Evan Marshall]

Stephen

I quote you "differences of opinion are very tiresome and proof that the educational sytem has failed everyone except yourself."

Why are you attempting in your feeble way to attack me?

How can ANY human being, particularly a member of this forum, state that "differences of opinion are very tiresome." You would not HAVE a forum if there were no differences of opinion"!

I think that I can say, without a doubt, this statement of yours is better than me writing a thousand words.

By the way, what educational system spawned you ?

Will they admit it ?

Charlie Black

Charlie,

There was NOTHING in Stephen's post directed against you. In fact your post is attacking him.

This was a shocking horrible tragedy and I don't think it could have been forseen. No conspiracy- just an angry and evil guy. NO friends, not even in high school. Anger that built up. At what we don't know. He probably watched a lot of violence. I will not watch his video, and find it deplorable that the media ran even parts of it. This is what he wanted: infamy. This is not news. It's not educational. It's just ratings and so hurtful for the victims' families.

My husband Erick ( a member here)- has guns, but they are locked up.

1st-for the last time-what has this got to do with JFK?

2nd-I'm armed as I write this-as a retired cop, firearms instructor, and ccw holder-the world we live in in full of violence and I intend to die of old age not at the hands of som one Society simply wants to dismiss as crazy-they're are genuinely ans enthusiascally evil people out there. Calling him crazy eliminates any need to come up with a solution to the problem.

[Ron Ecker]

1st-for the last time-what has this got to do with JFK?

The only connection I see is a virtually irrelevant one, which is the lone-nutter excuse that we live in a violent society and we need to do something about it.

I remember that right after the RFK assassination, Johnny Carson devoted one night of his show to a discussion with several celebrity guests (Alan King is the only one I recall) on what was wrong with our society. It apparently didn't even enter Carson's consciousness or that of anyone else on the show that the political assassinations of the 60s were conspiracies. They were all the work of lone nuts, so the question was why was our society so sick, why was it producing these lone nuts. This tunnel-vision, truly ignorant view of the assassinations remains mind-boggling to this day.

[John Simkin]

1st - for the last time-what has this got to do with JFK?

William Kelly decided to start this thread in the JFK assassination section. He has every right to do this. Those who don't approve should ignore the thread.

2nd-I'm armed as I write this-as a retired cop, firearms instructor, and ccw holder-the world we live in in full of violence and I intend to die of old age not at the hands of some one Society simply wants to dismiss as crazy-they're are genuinely and enthusiasctially evil people out there. Calling him crazy eliminates any need to come up with a solution to the problem.

I write this unarmed. In fact, I have never held a gun in my life. However, I feel very safe as I do not expect anyone to fire a gun at me. I feel sorry that you live in a society where you feel the need to carry a gun for your protection.

[William Kelly]

"For the last time - What does this have to do with the JFK Assassintion?"

Well, when I started this thread it wasn't quite clear if the attack was the work of a lone-nut or a terrorist attack.

Such a determination is critical, and its formation as a legal principle is important in the administration of justice.

The false determination that President Kennedy and Rabbi Kahane were assassinated by "lone-nuts" effectively allowed the intelligence networks behind the murders to continue to function and commit other, even more significant crimes.

In addition as a case study, whether the result of the work of a lone-nut or a terrorist network, the official and media response should and is being reviewed.

Apparently the kid pulled off two bomb threats in the weeks before the attack to gage the official response in order to affect counter-measures (ie. chain the doors), and he planned on manipulating the media response with mailed videos.

Like the assassination of JFK, the apparent suspect was not just a killer, but a spree killer, a specific type of mass murderer who commits multible acts at more than one crime scene.

If the killer of JFK was a lone-nut, we can leave the analysis of the killer's psyche to the psychologists and psychoanalysis, but since we have LHO, the accused assassin, who fits the covert operative criminal profile to a T, we are still trying to figure it out - and in my opinion are very close to wrapping up the case to a legal and moral certainty.

Bill Kelly

[Dixie Dea]

Quote from John Simkin....

"I write this unarmed. In fact, I have never held a gun in my life. However, I feel very safe as I do not expect anyone to fire a gun at me. I feel sorry that you live in a society where you feel the need to carry a gun for your protection."

John,

Although, when younger I did shoot a gun a couple of times..just for the experince of it. Howeevrr, I do personally hate guns. I also do not know any of my friends and acquaintances that carries a gun. If they do so, I believe it it at times when maybe they go camping, where sometimes bad things do occur. I also believe that most of those who do carry guns are for the most part just being overly paranoid. Plus it is not all that true that we all feel we have to carry a gun for protection.

When I was sponsoring Teen Dances, I had to fire one of my Security Guards for carrying a gun. That is because he was just IMO crazy enough to actually shoot one of those Teens and also IMO I felt like he was just itching for a chance to do so. He would strut around outside like he was a big macho or something, but I was not amused.....and in fact, I was horrified.

I do have a few female friends who have mentioned getting a gun and to me, they are the very types that should never have one. I do realize that some jobs, it might be necessary to carry a gun, but I sure don't want anything to do with one. I have never even seen anything happen where I might have needed one. That might happen, but I can't be living with the thought that it might.

____________

Dixie

[Charles Black]

I sit here with appx 13 guns in my house. Two of which are loaded and properly stored, primarily because I have grandchildren.

The primary reason that I have 13 guns is not be a frothy mouthed killer, But, target shooting and hunting are my hobby. I belong to several shooting clubs who have doctors and judges among their membership. I have a concealed weapons permit tho I seldom carry, but I do keep a loaded .45 caliber in my car. Most people don't understand that they need only ONCE to face a killer, in order to be quite dead. An anti gun enthusiast will never have the opportunity to say "that if I only had a weapon, my family would still be alive." I always carry weapons on camping trips and sometimes where I am fishing.

Dawn mentioned that she hated guns but her husband owned several but HE is smart enough to know how to store them. Why don't you understand that other people, who might be not as well educated as your husband, might still be bright enough and "care" enough, to handle their weapons at least equally as well. Is everyone that owns a gun a crazed savage?

Most persons who are licenced to "carry" weapons can usually be depended on, because of the FBI checks and local checks, to be very solid citizens.

Your Va. Tech killer wasn't licenced to "carry a weapon". He qualified to puchase one only because several people failed to properly do their job.

It is a dreadful shame that some of we gunowners were not present......because he would never have killed 32 people. If the pilots of the 911 planes had been armed, that event may have never happened.

I think it is extremely "backward thinking" to take guns away from honest upright citizens when you know that the criminal element is well armed.

John, I don't understand why you are so proud to have never picked up a gun. I am proud to have, when my help was asked for.

Yes people are angry, hurt and crying, over those victimized by a crazed person. Why are you, both Brits & Yanks, however not crying over the thousands of soldiers who have died and been maimed.

Many of them were even younger than the Va. Tech students, but most were not fortunate enough to have been attending college. Are their lives less valuable? Why ? Why don't we shed some tears over the fact that both countries are complacent enough to tolerate such political leadership that causes the deaths of thousands of middle eastern women and children. We not only chose this leadership, but have allowed it to go unchecked, since the beginning of this millenium.

As I mentioned in another post, which many of you deliberately allowed to flow over your heads, if this crazed individual was intent on killing people, he did not "need a gun" ! With a couple of home made bombs and Molotov cocktails, he, or anyone, can kill far more than 32 people in a shorter time period, with less cost, and a possibility to do it again and kill some more.

Why do you bright people attack guns. Citizen owned guns is not the problem in the U.S., nor was it in the UK and Australia before they were confiscated.

It is easier and more convenient to attack guns, than it is to attack the real problem !

Guns were less responsible for that massacre than the general citizenry. I realize, as you rally behind your anti-gun sentiments, that if I have managed to figure that out, so have you. But we are all so lazy, complacent, and eager to place blame, that we don't want to admit that we, our societies, were the enablers of this horror.

You cannot legislate away those responsibilties which we are so unwilling to accept !

Charlie Black

P. S. Would the U.S. & Great Britain allow their Nuclear weapons banned, if they knew that highly potential agressors still maintained a nuclear arsenal ? This is no different than the point being made by the outlawing of private citizens weapons, while not being able to prevent the criminal element from being armed !

Edited April 21, 2007 by Charles Black

[Dixie Dea]

Charlie

You didn't specifically say anything to me, although I didn't mean to imply that I was opposed to weapons. My husband was a hunter and had guns, although he kept them away from my sight, knowing how I personally don't like them. Also my father was sort of a gun dealer, as a hobby, but he also kept them out of sight to our family. Mu husband and brother in laws also use to go out at night, to our ranch and shoot rabbits, that would destroy the crops. Still I do believe too many have guns they carry for everyday usage that should not have one at all....but that is just my own opinion.

___________

Dixie

[Guest Mark Valenti]

Charlie

You didn't specifically say anything to me, although I didn't mean to imply that I was opposed to weapons. My husband was a hunter and had guns, although he kept them away from my sight, knowing how I personally don't like them. Also my father was sort of a gun dealer, as a hobby, but he also kept them out of sight to our family. Mu husband and brother in laws also use to go out at night, to our ranch and shoot rabbits, that would destroy the crops. Still I do believe too many have guns they carry for everyday usage that should not have one at all....but that is just my own opinion.

___________

Dixie

You can readily see how easy it is for people to pop off verbally on web sites like this one - insults, veiled threats, withering comments, heated insults. Now imagine that these are some of the same people who own guns.

[Sid Walker]

As this thread has largely morphed into a discussion about gun control, here's my 2 cents worth.

It seems to me there several reasons why private citizens may want to own guns. These include:

1/ Sport

2/ Pest control

3/ Self-defense

4/ Distrust of a heavily armed Government

I have some sympathy for the first two of these.

Shooting as a sport has no appeal to me personally, but who am I to say what daft games people should or should not play? I object to duck shooting and similar activities, but that's the basis of ecological and humanitarian considerations. If folk want to shoot at clay pigeons, as far as I'm concerned, it's up to them.

Also, IMO, guns have a legitimate (although often over-used) role in the control of unwanted animals.

Point 3 - the self-defense 'need', I regard as highly problematic.

I feel safer unarmed - even in the company of others who are armed. I can appreciate the arguments of people who take a different view about this, although in general I think they take much greater risks than I do.

Point 4 - distrust of government, is an argument for which I used to have no sympathy at all, but about which my views have changed radically in recent years.

It is because of point 4 that I have shifted from someone who reflexively supported tighter restrictions on gun ownership to someone now generally distrustful of additional controls.

In part, this is because I have delved sufficiently into the cases of the Port Arthur massacre (Australia), Dunblane (Britain) and Columbine (USA) to believe there was probably a lot more to these three spectacular mass killings than we have been told in the mass media. Suspicions abound that one or more of these atrocities were 'black ops' in some form or another. Just as 9-11 was quickly leveraged to enact a raft of authoritarian 'ant-terror' laws, with almost universal mass media backing, so Port Arthur and Dunblane were used to achieve significant tightening of gun laws.

In the case of Port Arthur - the largest mass killing in Australian history as far as I'm aware - there was no coroner’s inquiry, no inquest, no trial. A 'lone nut', identified on the day, was effectively kept in isolation for months, then persuaded to change his initial plea to guilty on the grounds of insanity. One of Prime Minister's Howard's first acts in Government was to argue against an inquest (his reason was that as the 'lone nut's' guilt was obvious, there was no need to put the relatives of victims through any more suffering!).

When I observe an anti-gun agenda pushed in this manner by essentially the same people who promote false flag operations such as 9-11 or the London bombings, it gives me pause for thought.

I used to think that point 4 was just for 'ultra right-wing' paranoiacs. Now I believe the truth is more complex.

That's what gun-averse liberals and lefties are intended to think by criminals who don't give a hoot about public safety.

By all means let get rid of guns.

Let's get rid of standing armies as well - as well as unaccountable, misnamed 'intelligence agencies' that presume to have a 'license to kill'.

[Thomas Graves]

Why do you bright people attack guns? Citizen-owned guns are not the problem in the U.S., nor were they in the UK and Australia before they were confiscated.

_________________________________

Excellent point Charlie.

--Thomas

_________________________________

[Thomas Graves]

Could you please direct us towards your research into the JFK assassination. I seem to have missed those postings.

___________________________________________

John,

I can totally understand that. After all, you are a very busy man and you can't be expected to catch everything, can you now?

Now, if you were to re-read my Forum-required "biography," you could refreshen your memory and realize that I never claimed to be a researcher. I did state, however, that I hoped "to learn a lot about the assassination" (which I have), "and to ask the occasional question, and to perhaps even make some small contribution from time-to-time." (Or words to that effect.)

Now regarding the last point, above, I would like to remind you of my insignificant little stab at "serious research" which involved contacting the director of the alumni association of a high school which, it turned out, one "Larry Florer" attended in Dallas in the late 1950's, and "charming" her (lol!!!) into looking up in the appropriate "year book," scanning, and e-mailing to me "Larry Florer's" senior-year picture which James was kind enough to post for technically-challenged me on this Forum. Especially kind of James to do, since the photo of this real-life Larry Florer tended to challenge his previously-held belief, and the belief of many other assassination researchers (and, yes, even little 'ol me!) that the "drunk guy" who who was arrested right after the assassination for being in the (Dal-Tex?) building under very suspicious circumstances and who claimed to be "Larry Florer," really was Larry Florer and not, "unfortunately," one Theodore "Ted" Shackley, aka the "Blond Ghost" (nor the mysterious INTERPEN member, Edmund "Ed" Kolby). At least that's what seemed to be the consensus among the few people who responded to that very insignificant bit of "research" on my part. (Personally, I'm not convinced that the "drunk guy" wasn't Shackley or Kolby! How ironic!!)

I also remember asking you to ask "The Undercover Agent" you made us aware of on the "Edwin P. Wilson" thread whether or not he knew anything about an acquaintance of mine by the name of Lt. Col. Verner R. Carlson (Ret), and his possible former relationship, in so many words, with Paul Ogg (who worked for Morales in "Operation Phoenix").

Oh, and I almost forgot... I posted (or was it in a private message/e-mail to ________ ?) the fact that I'd asked my father to ask his buddy Gen. Victor "Brute" Krulak (Ret) whether or not he remembered writing the letter to Prouty in which he confirmed Prouty's suspicions that the suspicious-looking "suit" passing by the "three tramps" was Edward Lansdale, and whether or not Krulak could be persuaded by photograohic evidence that the "suit" might have been Gen. Maxwell Turner, instead of Lansdale.. Well, I tried, folks. All I was able to get out of my father was, "I asked 'Brute,' and he said he vaguely remembered writing the letter to Prouty, and said that Prouty was a 'good guy,' and that Lansdale was a 'bad guy,'" and then several weeks later when I asked my father whether or not he had ever gotten around to asking Krulak the second question, he said "Well, Thomas, 'Brute' seemed so irritated about being asked about the letter to Prouty that I decided that I wasn't going to jeopardize my relationship with him by asking him about this "Is-It-Lansdale-Or-Is-It Turner" question of yours. Sorry, 'Big T," I'm just not going to do it."

Regarding my meager attempts at research, unfortunately that's all I can remember at the moment, probably because that's all there is!!....

In my post I said "erstwhile" researchers and "erstwhile" moderators are creating new threads having to do with swearing, the Kent State massacre (and, obviously, this very same thread dealing with all of the political and social and possible conspiratorial (lol) aspects the recent tragic killing spree at Virginia Tech. (By the way, I suppose that someone must have recently posted the fact that Frank Sturgis attended Virginia Tech for awhile? If so, sorry to bring it up here. If not, ...) Now, I got a confession and an apology and an explanation for you: when I used the word "erstwhile," I was actually thinking of the word "earnest!" Doh. Big boo-boo on my part. Given that fact, and given the fact that I never claimed that I was a researcher or a "researcher," I do hope you feel better now.

Sincerely,

--Thomas

________________________________________

(Bump.)

Uh-hem!.. OK now, folks, let's back on topic here- philosophizing and moralizing about the shortcoming of the twisted gun-loving and violence-ridden kultur here in 'Merika! (Yeah!)

________________________________________

Edited April 21, 2007 by Thomas Graves

[Miles Scull]

Could you please direct us towards your research into the JFK assassination. I seem to have missed those postings.

John,

Now, I got a confession and an apology and an explanation for you: when I used the word "erstwhile," I was actually thinking of the word "earnest!" Doh. Big boo-boo on my part. Given that fact, and given the fact that I never claimed that I was a researcher or a "researcher," I do hope you feel better now.

Sincerely,

--Thomas

Thanks, Tommy (may I call you Tommy?). It takes quite a bit of intestinal fortitude to admit this boo-boo, as you call it. Therefore, apology accepted!

[J. Raymond Carroll]

Why are guns then used so destructively in the USofA?

A Native Perspective on Virginia Tech Headlines

Thursday, April 19, 2007

By Kat Teraji (kattoy@verizon.net)

Bury my heart at Wounded Knee, Deep in the Earth, Cover me with pretty lies - bury my heart at Wounded Knee. Didn't we learn to crawl, and still our history gets written in a xxxx's scrawl. They tell 'ya "Honey, you can still be an Indian d-d-down at the 'Y' on Saturday nights." - lyrics to "Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee," written by Buffy St. Marie

"The worst shooting rampage in American history…" "Massacre and Mourning, 33 die in worst shooting in U.S. History," and "Rampage called worst mass shooting in U.S. history." "What first appeared to be a single shooting death unfolded into the worst gun massacre in the nation's history." You've seen and heard these headlines and reports all week as the media provided non-stop coverage of the tragic shooting of 33 people at Virginia Tech University on Monday.

"The worst in U.S. history…" Really? It is certainly the worst shooting on a college campus in modern U.S. history. But if we think it is the worst shooting rampage in U.S. history, then we are a singularly uneducated nation.

"I can't take one more of these headlines," said Joan Redfern, a member of the Lakota Sioux tribe who lives in Hollister. We met at First Street Coffee to talk while we scanned Internet stories. "Haven't any of these people ever heard of the Massacre at Sand Creek in Colorado, where Methodist minister Col. Chivington massacred between 200 and 400 Cheyenne and Arapaho Indians, most of them women, children, and elderly men?"

Chivington specifically ordered the killing of children, and when he was asked why, he said, "Kill and scalp all, big and little; nits make lice."

At Wounded Knee Creek in South Dakota, the U.S. 7th Cavalry attacked 350 unarmed Lakota Sioux on December 29, 1890. While engaged in a spiritual practice known as the "Ghost Dance," approximately 90 warriors and 200 women and children were killed. Although the attack was officially reported as an "unjustifiable massacre" by Field Commander General Nelson A. Miles, 23 soldiers were awarded the Medal of Honor for the slaughter. The unarmed Lakota men fought back with bare hands. The elderly men and women stood and sang their death songs while falling under the hail of bullets. Soldiers stripped the bodies of the dead Lakota, keeping their ceremonial religious clothing as souvenirs.

"To say the Virginia shooting is the worst in all of U.S. history is to pour salt on old wounds-it means erasing and forgetting all of our ancestors who were killed in the past," Redfern said.

"The use of hyperbole and lack of historical perspective seems all too ubiquitous in much of the current mainstream media," Redfern said. "My intention is not to downplay the horror of what has happened this week in any way. But we have a 500-year history of mass shootings on American soil, and let's not forget it."

This is only the most recent mass shooting massacre in a long history of mass shootings in a country engaged in a long love affair with firearms and very little interest in gun control.

Let's not forget our history and the richness of our Native roots. While spending time on the 1.5 million acre Hopi Reservation in Arizona, I met families living in homes they have occupied for over 900 years. On the surface, it looks like a third world country: you will observe many homes without running water, travel unpaved roads, and notice that there are no building codes. But sitting in a Hopi home being served a delicious lunch cooked by a proud Hopi working mother, I experienced so much more: the continuity of a long and deep heritage, a sense of the sacred, an artistic expertise, and wisdom about many things that remain a mystery to my culture.

Most of all, may we never forget all those innocent civilian men, women, and children who lost their lives simply for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, just as the students happened to be this week in Virginia. May we always remember the precious humanity of these students, but may we also never forget the humanity of those who lost their lives simply for being born people Native to this country. ..

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kat Teraji

Kat Teraji is communications coordinator for a large non-profit organization that benefits women and children. Her column appears every Thursday in the Take 2 section of the Dispatch. You can reach her at kattoy@verizon.net.

http://www.gilroydispatch.com/news/contentview.asp?c=212045

[Miles Scull]

Why are guns then used so destructively in the USofA?

A Native Perspective on Virginia Tech Headlines

By Kat Teraji

"Most of all, may we never forget all those innocent civilian men, women, and children who lost their lives simply for being in the wrong place at the wrong time,..."

Raymond,

If the campus had been locked down at about 7:30 AM, then wouldn't the students have been in the right place at the right time? And safe?

If the fatalities had remained at two, then would the gun control issue have ever come up?

As it is, isn't the gun control issue distracting attention away from the incompetence & criminal negligence of the authorities?

Just wondering.

Miles

Edited April 21, 2007 by Miles Scull

[William Kelly]

Why are guns then used so destructively in the USofA?

A Native Perspective on Virginia Tech Headlines

Thursday, April 19, 2007

By Kat Teraji (kattoy@verizon.net)

Bury my heart at Wounded Knee, Deep in the Earth, Cover me with pretty lies - bury my heart at Wounded Knee. Didn't we learn to crawl, and still our history gets written in a xxxx's scrawl. They tell 'ya "Honey, you can still be an Indian d-d-down at the 'Y' on Saturday nights." - lyrics to "Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee," written by Buffy St. Marie

"The worst shooting rampage in American history…" "Massacre and Mourning, 33 die in worst shooting in U.S. History," and "Rampage called worst mass shooting in U.S. history." "What first appeared to be a single shooting death unfolded into the worst gun massacre in the nation's history." You've seen and heard these headlines and reports all week as the media provided non-stop coverage of the tragic shooting of 33 people at Virginia Tech University on Monday.

"The worst in U.S. history…" Really? It is certainly the worst shooting on a college campus in modern U.S. history. But if we think it is the worst shooting rampage in U.S. history, then we are a singularly uneducated nation.

"I can't take one more of these headlines," said Joan Redfern, a member of the Lakota Sioux tribe who lives in Hollister. We met at First Street Coffee to talk while we scanned Internet stories. "Haven't any of these people ever heard of the Massacre at Sand Creek in Colorado, where Methodist minister Col. Chivington massacred between 200 and 400 Cheyenne and Arapaho Indians, most of them women, children, and elderly men?"

Chivington specifically ordered the killing of children, and when he was asked why, he said, "Kill and scalp all, big and little; nits make lice."

At Wounded Knee Creek in South Dakota, the U.S. 7th Cavalry attacked 350 unarmed Lakota Sioux on December 29, 1890. While engaged in a spiritual practice known as the "Ghost Dance," approximately 90 warriors and 200 women and children were killed. Although the attack was officially reported as an "unjustifiable massacre" by Field Commander General Nelson A. Miles, 23 soldiers were awarded the Medal of Honor for the slaughter. The unarmed Lakota men fought back with bare hands. The elderly men and women stood and sang their death songs while falling under the hail of bullets. Soldiers stripped the bodies of the dead Lakota, keeping their ceremonial religious clothing as souvenirs.

"To say the Virginia shooting is the worst in all of U.S. history is to pour salt on old wounds-it means erasing and forgetting all of our ancestors who were killed in the past," Redfern said.

"The use of hyperbole and lack of historical perspective seems all too ubiquitous in much of the current mainstream media," Redfern said. "My intention is not to downplay the horror of what has happened this week in any way. But we have a 500-year history of mass shootings on American soil, and let's not forget it."

This is only the most recent mass shooting massacre in a long history of mass shootings in a country engaged in a long love affair with firearms and very little interest in gun control......"

Indian massacre, Mai Lai Vietnam, and other such mass shootings are one thing, done by more than one suspect, on purpose, while criminal justice, Modus Operandi (MO) defines such criminal acts in categories, and the Virginia Tech episode is that of a Spree Killer, or one who commits more than one crime at more than one crime scene.

The first Spree Mass Murder in US history occured on Tuesday, September 6, 1949 in Camden, New Jersey, when WWII vet Howard B. Unruh went on a rampage and shot and killed 13 neigbhors, including a child in a barber chair and a man stopped at a red light.

Unruh surrendered, was never tried in court and remains in psychiatric prison in New Jersey. It was later determined that the neighborhood drug store operator told the barber Unruh had purchased rubbers, but didn't have a girl friend, and they all made fun of him.

While Unruh, unlike most spree killer, didn't kill himself and wasn't killed by the police, he was studied extensively, but those studies remain sealed because of the confidentiality of the living patient.

Unruh and other WWII vets, like medal of honor recipent Audie Murphy, were extensively studied by military psychoanalysists to determine what makes them such poficient killers.

For those who want to pursue this line of inquiry, the Virginia Tech killer had been a patient at St. Albans in Virginia, a psychiatric facility established in 1977, around the time that the MKULTRA programs were being exposed.

There are "lone-nuts" out there, but it is important to show how those who try to say that President Kennedy was a victim of one - Posner, Meyers, Bugliosi, et al., are demonstratably wrong.

And by insisting this is the official line, jeopardizes our national and personal security, and continues to do so until it is corrected.

BK