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William Kelly

Virginia Tech Spree Killer

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Hello John Simkin

It absolutely astonished me, but you stated in your immediately prior post that "...the right of people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. Clearly this reflects a time when people were concerned with the possible tyranny of the federal government. Is that still true today."

I cannot imagine you being in your position on this forum and stating ".....Is that still true today"

What do you think that we are referring to when we speak of an 11/22/63 Coup d' Etat? Or our often reference that the current Bush Administration is bleeding away our rights ? That the CIA is unmanaageable ? That the last election results were contested because of reported and proven improprieties?

Yes John ! We still fear tyranny of any sort.

If a majority of our 1776 revolutionaries, were not armed, we would still be a part of the "British Empire".

It was not only because of the threat of red indians or wild animals that these 1776ers bore arms. It was also against a repeated threat of tyranny.

Actually the meaning of to "keep and BEAR arms", means that citizens may be "accompanied by a gun" whenever they so choose.

I knew John, that you and a few others, would attempt to turn this thread into a gun control debate, as I stated in my post #35.

I would like to state that the great portion of my life was lived within the United States. I have been to all of the "big crime ridden cities" and never once have I or any of my family been physically threatened by ANYONE ! That is why I find it not only amazing, but preposterous that so many UK visitors are singled out and attacked.

Our southern neighbor, Mexico, banned handguns !

Would you like to walk down some dark, suburban Mexican Streets alone ?

The Mexican gun prohibition has prohibited only the citizenry from protecting themselves. There are still Banditos throughout Central America. There are certainly some areas of some American cities that one would not want to enter with a dozen guns. But this is mostly the result of gang and ethnic wars. Since you, I and everyone knows that guns cannot be kept out of the hands of criminals, why should I be stupid enough, or not care enough about the safety of my family, to give up my guns,

while knowing that the criminal element has not and never will ? I was long ago taught, "do not go to a gunfight armed only with a knife". I think that is sound reasoning !

Although there is a much greater chance that one of us is killed in an auto accident, by drowning, or some other means, than there is that we will be killed by a "bad guy", I can take steps to protect myself and my family against the bad guy, so why should I be denied this?

Charlie Black

I still can't figure out what this has to do with who killed JFK. I carry mutliple handguns daily based on 20yrs in Detroit AND my perfect knowledge that evil abounds

*********************************************************

I guess I must have missed this thread. In fact, I guess I must have missed the whole Virginia Tech Massacre. But, you know what? I didn't, nor could I seem to find it in me, to utter any cry of dismay, nor shed a tear for the losses inflicted on the victims' families. Why? Not because I'm someone you could consider to be cold-hearted. No. The reason I couldn't seem to get caught up behind the whole scene was because of living through 55 years of: watching Mafia lieutenants getting their throats cut in broad daylight on the streets of the Bronx in the early 1950's, watching the film clips of The Holocaust and World War II every year on all the requisite holidays that take place celebrating V-E Day, V-J Day, D-Day, etc., not to mention and along with, the ever-present nuclear testing mushroom clouds of Yucca Flats, NV and White Sands, NM, The Clocktower Incident in Austin, TX [1957 or 59, I believe.], the Freedom Riders and the Freedom Marchers getting the xxxx kicked out of themselves on their way to all points in the Deep South while armed gunman and county law officers trained their sites and their German Shepards and Doberman Pinchers on them in '61 and '62, the South East Asian Monks calmly dousing themselves with gasoline and setting themselves ablaze in '62 - '63, Civil Rights workers being fire-hosed and tear-gas bombed, beaten, and blown up, JFK gunned down at high noon in Dallas, LHO gunned down on national TV less than two days later, the VietNam War [brought to you in living color on the 6:00 Evening News right in time for dinner], Mississippi Burning, the Warren Commission LIE in '64, the Chicago Democratic National Convention and the resultant mob brutality that ensued, MLK gunned down in cold blood on the balcony of a Memphis hotel, RFK gunned in the prime of his life in the pantry of the Ambassador Hotel in Los Angeles in '68, body bags, body counts, body bags, and more body counts, Kent State "FOUR DEAD IN O-HIO," Nixon, the fall of Saigon, the return of G.I.'s with little or no re-hab afforded them, dumped back into the ranks of a society they no longer recognized, Watergate, the Pentagon Papers, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Ruby Ridge, Clinton, Waco, Kosovo/Slovenia, White Watergate, Monicagate, Bush, 9/11, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iraq, Iraq, Iraq, Columbine, Iraq, Iraq, Iraq, Iraq, Katrina, Iraq, Iraq, Iraq, Iraq, Iraq, Iraq, Iraq. And, you expect me to bat an eyelash at Virginia Tech, located in what is also known as, "The Old Dominion?"

You know, back during the anti-war demonstrations we used to march in, during the late 60's and early 70's, when we'd get heckled by the redneck-peckerwoods yelling, "America. Love it or leave it." Or, "My Country. Right or wrong." I used to yell back, "Hell No! We won't go!" "Hell No! You can go!" Well, the thought just occurred to me to create my own slogan with regard to The Second Amendment. "My guns and the right to bear them. Right or wrong!" Because you can bet your sweet ass that as long as guns can be easily obtained illegally, through the penal system's black market, and behind prison walls, by the criminals serving time there, you'd better believe I will NEVER agree to any gun control laws, especially since the state of California has enough of them on the books already, to choke a horse. It would be just like during "Prohibition," with as many cheap, badly made guns as there was cheap, badly distilled liquor. It'll never fly, here in the states. Now, it may be doable in a small area like the British Isles, or the continent of Europe, which is smaller than the Louisiana Purchase, but not on this continent, and not in your lifetime. Not unless you expect to see a potentially bloodier war take place than The Civil War ever was, that is. We will not go quietly into the night. Not as long as Barrett's is open for business in Murfreesboro, TN.

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Hello John Simkin

It absolutely astonished me, but you stated in your immediately prior post that "...the right of people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. Clearly this reflects a time when people were concerned with the possible tyranny of the federal government. Is that still true today."

I cannot imagine you being in your position on this forum and stating ".....Is that still true today"

What do you think that we are referring to when we speak of an 11/22/63 Coup d' Etat? Or our often reference that the current Bush Administration is bleeding away our rights ? That the CIA is unmanaageable ? That the last election results were contested because of reported and proven improprieties?

Yes John ! We still fear tyranny of any sort.

If a majority of our 1776 revolutionaries, were not armed, we would still be a part of the "British Empire".

It was not only because of the threat of red indians or wild animals that these 1776ers bore arms. It was also against a repeated threat of tyranny.

Actually the meaning of to "keep and BEAR arms", means that citizens may be "accompanied by a gun" whenever they so choose.

I knew John, that you and a few others, would attempt to turn this thread into a gun control debate, as I stated in my post #35.

I would like to state that the great portion of my life was lived within the United States. I have been to all of the "big crime ridden cities" and never once have I or any of my family been physically threatened by ANYONE ! That is why I find it not only amazing, but preposterous that so many UK visitors are singled out and attacked.

Our southern neighbor, Mexico, banned handguns !

Would you like to walk down some dark, suburban Mexican Streets alone ?

The Mexican gun prohibition has prohibited only the citizenry from protecting themselves. There are still Banditos throughout Central America. There are certainly some areas of some American cities that one would not want to enter with a dozen guns. But this is mostly the result of gang and ethnic wars. Since you, I and everyone knows that guns cannot be kept out of the hands of criminals, why should I be stupid enough, or not care enough about the safety of my family, to give up my guns,

while knowing that the criminal element has not and never will ? I was long ago taught, "do not go to a gunfight armed only with a knife". I think that is sound reasoning !

Although there is a much greater chance that one of us is killed in an auto accident, by drowning, or some other means, than there is that we will be killed by a "bad guy", I can take steps to protect myself and my family against the bad guy, so why should I be denied this?

Charlie Black

I still can't figure out what this has to do with who killed JFK. I carry mutliple handguns daily based on 20yrs in Detroit AND my perfect knowledge that evil abounds

*********************************************************

I guess I must have missed this thread. In fact, I guess I must have missed the whole Virginia Tech Massacre. But, you know what? I didn't, nor could I seem to find it in me, to utter any cry of dismay, nor shed a tear for the losses inflicted on the victims' families. Why? Not because I'm someone you could consider to be cold-hearted. No. The reason I couldn't seem to get caught up behind the whole scene was because of living through 55 years of: watching Mafia lieutenants getting their throats cut in broad daylight on the streets of the Bronx in the early 1950's, watching the film clips of The Holocaust and World War II every year on all the requisite holidays that take place celebrating V-E Day, V-J Day, D-Day, etc., not to mention and along with, the ever-present nuclear testing mushroom clouds of Yucca Flats, NV and White Sands, NM, The Clocktower Incident in Austin, TX [1957 or 59, I believe.], the Freedom Riders and the Freedom Marchers getting the xxxx kicked out of themselves on their way to all points in the Deep South while armed gunman and county law officers trained their sites and their German Shepards and Doberman Pinchers on them in '61 and '62, the South East Asian Monks calmly dousing themselves with gasoline and setting themselves ablaze in '62 - '63, Civil Rights workers being fire-hosed and tear-gas bombed, beaten, and blown up, JFK gunned down at high noon in Dallas, LHO gunned down on national TV less than two days later, the VietNam War [brought to you in living color on the 6:00 Evening News right in time for dinner], Mississippi Burning, the Warren Commission LIE in '64, the Chicago Democratic National Convention and the resultant mob brutality that ensued, MLK gunned down in cold blood on the balcony of a Memphis hotel, RFK gunned in the prime of his life in the pantry of the Ambassador Hotel in Los Angeles in '68, body bags, body counts, body bags, and more body counts, Kent State "FOUR DEAD IN O-HIO," Nixon, the fall of Saigon, the return of G.I.'s with little or no re-hab afforded them, dumped back into the ranks of a society they no longer recognized, Watergate, the Pentagon Papers, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Ruby Ridge, Clinton, Waco, Kosovo/Slovenia, White Watergate, Monicagate, Bush, 9/11, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iraq, Iraq, Iraq, Columbine, Iraq, Iraq, Iraq, Iraq, Katrina, Iraq, Iraq, Iraq, Iraq, Iraq, Iraq, Iraq. And, you expect me to bat an eyelash at Virginia Tech, located in what is also known as, "The Old Dominion?"

You know, back during the anti-war demonstrations we used to march in, during the late 60's and early 70's, when we'd get heckled by the redneck-peckerwoods yelling, "America. Love it or leave it." Or, "My Country. Right or wrong." I used to yell back, "Hell No! We won't go!" "Hell No! You can go!" Well, the thought just occurred to me to create my own slogan with regard to The Second Amendment. "My guns and the right to bear them. Right or wrong!" Because you can bet your sweet ass that as long as guns can be easily obtained illegally, through the penal system's black market, and behind prison walls, by the criminals serving time there, you'd better believe I will NEVER agree to any gun control laws, especially since the state of California has enough of them on the books already, to choke a horse. It would be just like during "Prohibition," with as many cheap, badly made guns as there was cheap, badly distilled liquor. It'll never fly, here in the states. Now, it may be doable in a small area like the British Isles, or the continent of Europe, which is smaller than the Louisiana Purchase, but not on this continent, and not in your lifetime. Not unless you expect to see a potentially bloodier war take place than The Civil War ever was, that is. We will not go quietly into the night. Not as long as Barrett's is open for business in Murfreesboro, TN.

YOU go girl! Including; holding onto your weapons!

Btw, it was 1963 the first Saigon Buddhist Self-Immolation

Edited by David G. Healy

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YOU go girl! Including; holding onto your weapons!

Btw, it was 1963 the first Saigon Buddhist Self-Immolation

Given a choice between trying to disarm Terry and self-immolation, I'd probably toss a coin.

Edited by Sid Walker

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Could you please direct us towards your research into the JFK assassination. I seem to have missed those postings.

___________________________________________

Dear John,

I totally understand. After all, you are a very busy man and you can't be expected to catch everything, can you now?

If you were to re-read my Forum-required biography, you could refreshen your memory and realize that I never claimed to be a researcher. I did state, however, that I hoped to learn a lot about the assassination, to ask an occasional question, and to perhaps even make some small contribution from time-to-time.

Now regarding the last point, above, I'd like to remind you of my insignificant little stab at "serious research" when I figured out which high school Larry Florer most likely attended in the Oak Cliff part of Dallas, and then contacted the director of the alumni association of said high school and got her to look up Larry Florer's picture in the year book, scan it, and e-mail it to me as an attachment. Then I e-mailed it to James Richards and he was kind enough to post it, for technically-challenged-little-old-me. It was especially kind of James to do that, since the photo of this real-life Larry Florer tended to challenge his previously-held belief, (and the fervid belief of many other assassination "researchers" that the guy arrested, under very suspicious circumstances, in the Dal-Tex building who had the gall to claim to be Larry Florer really was Larry Florer (and not, unfortunately, one Theodore Shackley, aka the "Blond Ghost", nor the mysterious INTERPEN member, Edmund Kolby)!

I also remember asking you a research-related question which you, predictably, refused or failed to respond to-- I asked you to ask your mysterious "Undercover Agent" contact (about whom you made us aware on the "Edwin P. Wilson" thread) whether or not he knew anything about an acquaintance of mine (since deceased) by the name of Lt. Col. Verner R. Carlson (Ret), and his possible former relationship, with Paul Ogg (who worked for Morales in "Operation Phoenix". Carlson graduated from the Naval Academy in 1955, transferred to the Army, and secconded to CIA. As a CIA officer, Carlson and was Col. John Paul Vann's "right hand man" in Vietnam. But I've only just learned that Carlson was Chief of Intelligence in the Mekong Delta, Vietnam, during the war.

Oh, and I almost forgot... I asked my father to ask his buddy, Gen. Victor "Brute" Krulak (Ret), whether or not he remembered writing a letter to Prouty in which he confirmed Prouty's suspicions that the "suit" passing the Three Tramps was indeed Edward Lansdale, and also whether or not Krulak could be persuaded, by photograohic evidence, that the "suit" could just as well have been Ronnie Ecker's favorite villain, Gen. Maxwell Turner, instead. Well, I tried, folks. All I was able to get out of my father was, "I asked 'Brute,' and he said he vaguely remembered writing the letter to Prouty, and said that Prouty was a 'good guy,' and that Lansdale was a 'bad guy,'" and then several weeks later when I asked my father whether or not he had ever gotten around to asking Krulak the second question, he said "Well, Thomas, 'Brute' seemed so irritated about being asked the first question that I just decided not to jeopardize my relationship with him by asking him about this "Is-It-Lansdale-Or-Is-It Turner" question of yours. Sorry, 'Big T," I'm just ain't gonna do it."

[...]

Sincerely,

--Thomas

________________________________________

[...]

________________________________________

bump

P.S. Since I posted this in 2007, I haven't done much "serious research" other than to verify that the former downtown San Diego bar called the "Gold Rail" (which Jack Ruby allegedly visited before the assassination, as referenced in a post assassination anonymously-written letter to RFK) wasn't a gay bar after all, but a notorious Mafia bar!

And I was able to determine, by visiting the History Room at the La Jolla Library, that a phone call made by David Ferrie to La Jolla in April of 1962 was to a bank. Update: The bank was later acquired by "The Mafia's Bank", you know, the one founded in San Francisco a long time ago?

And oh yeah, I was able to verify that Andres V. Cortes, whose car was spotted at the Soviet Embassy in Havana on November 23, 1963, really did, according to the La Jolla Blue Book telephone directory, live at 7818 Fay Avenue in La Jolla, California from 1964 through 1966. [The house was listed as being in "Transient" status (i.e. rented by some unnamed person who was not actually living there at the time) in 1963.]

Other than that, I ain't done nothing...

--Tommy :)

Edited by Thomas Graves

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