Oh no, not Lucien Sarti again

[Ron Ecker]

E. Howard Hunt's "confession" via his son includes the info that a Corsican gunman fired the fatal shot from the grassy knoll. So we're back to the Lucien Sarti story. Does this impugn the credibility of Hunt's confession, or does it lend credibility to the Sarti tale?

I have come to doubt that the fatal shot came from the grassy knoll (given the angle, and the better head-on shot from the south), and if Hunt had told of a south-knoll gunman, instead of the Corsican behind the fence, that would have settled it for me.

As it is, I thought that the French connection story had been more or less discredited. Would anyone familiar with it (and anyone else) care to comment?

[Antti Hynonen]

Ron Ecker Posted Today, 01:36 PM

E. Howard Hunt's "confession" via his son includes the info that a Corsican gunman fired the fatal shot from the grassy knoll. So we're back to the Lucien Sarti story. Does this impugn the credibility of Hunt's confession, or does it lend credibility to the Sarti tale?

I have come to doubt that the fatal shot came from the grassy knoll (given the angle, and the better head-on shot from the south), and if Hunt had told of a south-knoll gunman, instead of the Corsican behind the fence, that would have settled it for me.

As it is, I thought that the French connection story had been more or less discredited. Would anyone familiar with it (and anyone else) care to comment?

Would anyone familiar with it (and anyone else) care to comment?

Sure, it's been a while since I watched TMWKK, and the episode dedicated to the Corsican connection. However, I recall that the American investigating this angle, found out that the assumed Corsican (or Marseilles, based mobster) had an alibi and had in fact been in some South American country at that time. However, I don't know how reliable the alibi is/was. In my opinion it is entirely possible that the shooter could have been a foreigner, but I suspect there'd be enough skilled and able shooters on the US side of the Atlantic as well, in other words I didn't understand why these shooters needed to be imported, as per the Corsican theory.

Edited May 4, 2007 by Antti Hynonen

[Charles Drago]

Ron,

All we can say for certain about the actual Dealey Plaza mechanics firing weapons at the president that day with the intent to kill him is that they were the best available killer/marksmen. If it cannot be demonstrated that Sarti or any other suspect possessed such skills, then he or she must be crossed off the list.

The lives of the event's planners depended upon a kill. A wounded, governing JFK would hunt them to the ends of the earth.

So all the babble we hear and read about Nicolletti and Rosselli and Holt and Files and Wallace as gunmen must be weighed against their respective capabilities as hunter/killers capable of doing the job in question.

With apologies to Michael Corleone: This wasn't a case of walking up to the guy and blowing his brains all over his nice Ivy League suit. This was war, where you killed him from scores or hundreds of yards away as he moved downgrade in an outdoor setting replete with uncontrollable environmental impacts and security threats.

Of all the yarns spun about alleged mechanics, my favorite was produced by Gerry Patrick Hemming upon the occasion of his public grilling at a Lancer conference. He claimed, in typical high style, that the killer in a northwest TSBD window was a former SS sniper, one of the Rat Line boys, who had been assigned to take out Connolly.

Why the governor? Hemming claims to have asked him.

"Because he didn't bid high enough."

Are you afraid that one of the assassination researchers will identify you?

"Just make sure they spell my f***ing name right!"

Makes more sense than Mac Wallace, I'd say.

Charles

[Evan Marshall]

Ron,

All we can say for certain about the actual Dealey Plaza mechanics firing weapons at the president that day with the intent to kill him is that they were the best available killer/marksmen. If it cannot be demonstrated that Sarti or any other suspect possessed such skills, then he or she must be crossed off the list.

The lives of the event's planners depended upon a kill. A wounded, governing JFK would hunt them to the ends of the earth.

So all the babble we hear and read about Nicolletti and Rosselli and Holt and Files and Wallace as gunmen must be weighed against their respective capabilities as hunter/killers capable of doing the job in question.

With apologies to Michael Corleone: This wasn't a case of walking up to the guy and blowing his brains all over his nice Ivy League suit. This was war, where you killed him from scores or hundreds of yards away as he moved downgrade in an outdoor setting replete with uncontrollable environmental impacts and security threats.

Of all the yarns spun about alleged mechanics, my favorite was produced by Gerry Patrick Hemming upon the occasion of his public grilling at a Lancer conference. He claimed, in typical high style, that the killer in a northwest TSBD window was a former SS sniper, one of the Rat Line boys, who had been assigned to take out Connolly.

Why the governor? Hemming claims to have asked him.

"Because he didn't bid high enough."

Are you afraid that one of the assassination researchers will identify you?

"Just make sure they spell my f***ing name right!"

Makes more sense than Mac Wallace, I'd say.

Charles

if they imported any shooters they were probably US precision rifleman from Vietnam-after all, the shooters were most likely expendable-they could be quickly returned from "R&R" and killed in combat.

Edited May 3, 2007 by Evan Marshall

[Ron Ecker]

I agree that expendable military snipers make more sense than importing a Corsican gunman. How was he supposed to be better? And Sarti lived on into the 1970s, I believe, dying in some shootout in Mexico.

But precisely because of its dubiousness, I can't see Hunt including the Corsican on the grassy knoll story in his confession unless it was true. He had to know it wouldn't help his story's credibility, the rest of it being quite believable.

[Steve Thomas]

Antti,

In my opinion it is entirely possible that the shooter could have been a foreigner, but I suspect there'd be enough skilled and able shooters on the US side of the Atlantric as well, in other words I didn't understand why these shooters needed to be imported, as per the Corsican theory.

From William Harvey’s handwritten notes on setting up the ZR/Rifle Program

From ajweberman’s Coup d’etat in America Nodule 0

http://www.weberman.com/nodules/nodule0.htm

8. Use nobody who has never dealt with criminals; otherwise will not be

aware of pitfalls or consider factors such as freedom to travel, wanted

lists, etc. Exclude organization criminals, those with record of

arrests, those who have engaged in several types of crime. Corsicans

recommended. Sicilians lead to Mafia.

Steve Thomas

[Ron Ecker]

Steve,

Thanks for that info. Bad URL by the way (you left out "aj"). Here's the correct one:

http://ajweberman.com/nodules2/nodulec1.htm

[John Simkin]

I agree that expendable military snipers make more sense than importing a Corsican gunman. How was he supposed to be better? And Sarti lived on into the 1970s, I believe, dying in some shootout in Mexico.

You can read the story about Sarti here:

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKsarti.htm

[Myra Bronstein]

E. Howard Hunt's "confession" via his son includes the info that a Corsican gunman fired the fatal shot from the grassy knoll. So we're back to the Lucien Sarti story. Does this impugn the credibility of Hunt's confession, or does it lend credibility to the Sarti tale?

I have come to doubt that the fatal shot came from the grassy knoll (given the angle, and the better head-on shot from the south), and if Hunt had told of a south-knoll gunman, instead of the Corsican behind the fence, that would have settled it for me.

As it is, I thought that the French connection story had been more or less discredited. Would anyone familiar with it (and anyone else) care to comment?

I typically don't believe anything a CIA type says since they're professional murderers and liars.

But if I make an exception and believe anything Hunt said I'd believe that he made lies of omission rather than commission,

and gave genuine names but withheld other guilty names like Dulles, Cabell, etc.

[Evan Marshall]

E. Howard Hunt's "confession" via his son includes the info that a Corsican gunman fired the fatal shot from the grassy knoll. So we're back to the Lucien Sarti story. Does this impugn the credibility of Hunt's confession, or does it lend credibility to the Sarti tale?

I have come to doubt that the fatal shot came from the grassy knoll (given the angle, and the better head-on shot from the south), and if Hunt had told of a south-knoll gunman, instead of the Corsican behind the fence, that would have settled it for me.

As it is, I thought that the French connection story had been more or less discredited. Would anyone familiar with it (and anyone else) care to comment?

I typically don't believe anything a CIA type says since they're professional murderers and liars.

But if I make an exception and believe anything Hunt said I'd believe that he made lies of omission rather than commission,

and gave genuine names but withheld other guilty names like Dulles, Cabell, etc.

The son was just on Glen Beck and they played exerpts of the tape-did not find it credible-the CIA had plenty of folks who could shoot a rifle with skill and the US military is as far as they needed to "stray".

[Herb White]

E. Howard Hunt's "confession" via his son includes the info that a Corsican gunman fired the fatal shot from the grassy knoll. So we're back to the Lucien Sarti story. Does this impugn the credibility of Hunt's confession, or does it lend credibility to the Sarti tale?

I have come to doubt that the fatal shot came from the grassy knoll (given the angle, and the better head-on shot from the south), and if Hunt had told of a south-knoll gunman, instead of the Corsican behind the fence, that would have settled it for me.

As it is, I thought that the French connection story had been more or less discredited. Would anyone familiar with it (and anyone else) care to comment?

Having read several books on Sarti and the Corsican Heroin Trade convinced me that it was at least plausible that he was involved in the JFK affair. Hunt's mentioning Cord Meyer, Morales and Phiillips also appears to be a good fit based on my thinking that many of the best assassination books I've read over the years had parts of the story correct. I'd enjoy hearing the opinions of Fonzi, Hancock and a few others as to their take on Hunt's confession.

I listened to the excerpt, which is about six or seven minutes out of twenty and it's pretty convincing for me. I'd like to hear the rest of it.

Craig Roberts, an expert on snipers and shooting, expressed his opinion in the past that he felt the kill shot was a tangential shot from the front/side, which was Badgeman's location. After viewing the headshot in slowmotion dozens or more times I tend to agree. And if one can get a really clear print of Badgeman and compare it to the photo of Lucien Sarti there appear to me to be obvious facial similarities, such as ear, eye and hairline shape.

[James Richards]

Ron,

The one man who could have revealled the facts regarding Sarti was murdered about 10 years ago. Nelson Gross was a former aide to Richard Nixon and a narcotics agent.

Amongst his papers was a complete dossier on Sarti including where he was on November 22, 1963. I submit it wasn't Dealey Plaza.

I also submit that there was indeed a Frenchman dispatched to Dallas that weekend but not as a shooter, instead this guy was skilled in explosives.

Just my opinion of course.

James

[Mark Stapleton]

Ron,

The one man who could have revealled the facts regarding Sarti was murdered about 10 years ago. Nelson Gross was a former aide to Richard Nixon and a narcotics agent.

Amongst his papers was a complete dossier on Sarti including where he was on November 22, 1963. I submit it wasn't Dealey Plaza.

I also submit that there was indeed a Frenchman dispatched to Dallas that weekend but not as a shooter, instead this guy was skilled in explosives.

Just my opinion of course.

James

James, you didn't tell us his name. Even if he wasn't the shooter we need the name, man.

FWIW, I can't see how a US military sniper could be persuaded to kill his own President, regardless of which General or intelligence official told him to do it. It would need to be one who already harboured a pathological hatred for JFK.

Corsican snipers still seem the most likely candidates, imo.

[Myra Bronstein]

Ron,

The one man who could have revealled the facts regarding Sarti was murdered about 10 years ago. Nelson Gross was a former aide to Richard Nixon and a narcotics agent.

Amongst his papers was a complete dossier on Sarti including where he was on November 22, 1963. I submit it wasn't Dealey Plaza.

I also submit that there was indeed a Frenchman dispatched to Dallas that weekend but not as a shooter, instead this guy was skilled in explosives.

Just my opinion of course.

James

What would the French explosives expert have done James?

[Ron Ecker]

I can't see how a US military sniper could be persuaded to kill his own President, regardless of which General or intelligence official told him to do it.

I don't think that a military sniper in this or a similar case would be told who the target is. He wouldn't even know what city he's in. He wouldn't know who the target is until he's in the crosshairs (assuming he could recognize him). Then what do you do, with all that you've been trained for and maybe a split second to decide to disobey the order that brung you?