Question for Tosh

[Wim Dankbaar]

What do you make of Chauncey Holt's story?

Wim

[Shanet Clark]

Fellow Forum Members---

Chauncey Holt claims to be the tramp that is often identified as E. Howard Hunt.

His statement can be read at

http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/holt1.htm

Is this disinformation? Does the story make sense?

I was on AJ Weberman's website last night,

and although I reject much of AJW's tactics and approach,

he has posted a fairly High Resolution series of about eight

'Tramp Photos.' Look at the photos and read the confession.

I'm sure many of you have evidence against the Holt material.

Weberman also shows a larger format picture of the

Dallas cops, the three tramps, and the man identified as

counter-insurgency expert Col. Ed Lansdale. The Lansdale

character is positioned between the tramps the cops and the fence

in such a way that no citizen would have been allowed to be there,

adding to the strength of that case.

I dont have AJ's URL but Google his Coup Detat in America site

and find the photographic evidence.

(AJW also presents pretty good photo evidence for a second "ringer"

Mannlicher/Carcano rifle being in play, as the serial numbers look different.)

Shanet

[Antti Hynonen]

(AJW also presents pretty good photo evidence for a second "ringer"

Mannlicher/Carcano rifle being in play, as the serial numbers look different.)

Shanet

Shanet,

John Ritchson has made a convincing statement with regard to the Mannlicher carbine on this Forum.

See this link

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=1693

[Wim Dankbaar]

http://www.ajweberman.com/

Like Jack White, Weberman believes that the tramps are Sturgis, Christ and Hunt.

I say they are Holt, Rogers (Montoya) and Harrelson

Wim

[Shanet Clark]

http://www.ajweberman.com/

Like Jack White, Weberman believes that the tramps are Sturgis, Christ and Hunt.

I say they are Holt, Rogers (Montoya)  and Harrelson

Wim

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's the way it shapes up........

The big tramp strongly resembles both Sturgis and Harrelson.

BUT Sturgis Fiorini was a darker man than the sheepish big anglo tramp.

The young tramp strongly resembles Mr. Christ, with his pointy nose.

The older tramp strongly resembles Hunt, but looks more like Chauncey Holt.

I would be interested in a photographic comparison of Chauncey Holt vs. Howard Hunt. I am less familiar with Rogers (Montoya).

Some theorize the Christ/Rogers(Montoya) tramp is a French nationalist

assassin for the OAS, along the lines of the fictional "Jackal" i.e. Frenchy.

It is assumed that David Ferrie or someone like Tosh hustled the french oas hit man out of the country.

I have seen video of Harrelson being confronted with his lookalike,

and he later admitted (from jail) to being the big tramp.

He is a Giancana made-man, and the actor woody harrelson's father.

Weberman cites an expert who finds the TEAM of Hunt and Sturgis to

resemble TWO of the three tramps compelling, more than individual I.D.'s would.

AJs material is dated, I tend to believe Wim's theory that the tramp is

Holt, but strongly doubt his story.

Why the big show of marching them under guard across the Plaza,

if no arrest was made? Was Lansdale in the middle of it?

Holt's story of sitting in a train car with a receiver and saying "we're federal agents" to the Dallas police doesn't ring true to me.

What is going on here?

Holt's comments have some common ground with Tosh's story,

but read like someone with only second hand information.

Weberman claims to have Solved the JFK murder by naming

Christ, Hunt and Sturgis....while our colleague Wim claims 'JFK murder solved'

because of the confessions of Holt, Files (and Harrelson).

murky, important, perplexing.

I think they were gunmen, and I no longer find the Hunt Sturgis OAS team

as strong or stronger theory than the Holt, Harrelson theory, but would

be eager to learn the sense of the Forum and see more photo comparisons,

especially of Chauncy Holt and (Montoya) circa 1963.

WHo is the Young Tramp, Frenchy?

What does the perp walk tell about Dealey plaza that day?

Shanet

Edited November 4, 2004 by Shanet Clark

[Wim Dankbaar]

http://jfkmurdersolved.com/lois1.htm

[Dawn Meredith]

http://jfkmurdersolved.com/lois1.htm

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Prouty says somewhere- (don't remember where)- that one of the tramps was Lansdale. A different photo tho than the famous one where you can see their faces, he was id'ing Lanscale from behind.

The Chancy Holt story can be found in a fascinating little book called "The Man on the Grassy Knoll" by John Craig and Philip Rogers.

Dawn

[Tim Carroll]

Prouty says somewhere- (don't remember where)- that one of the tramps was Lansdale. A different photo tho than the famous one  where you can see their faces, he was id'ing Lanscale from behind.

Dawn

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dawn,

I don't believe that Prouty meant that Lansdale was one of the tramps, but that he is in one of the tramps photos, that identification supported by Victor Krulak. Here's the photo:

Lansdale is the one with his back to the camera, with the large class ring and hanging left shoulder. I take it that he had a unique gait and/or physical carriage.

Tim

Edited December 23, 2004 by Tim Carroll

[Dixie Dea]

Hi Dawn...

Nice to have you join us!

As for Lansdale being one of the Tramps, according to Prouty I am thinking you may be confused about this. Tim is correct in what he posted. Prouty did know Lansdale quite well, and did say that man in the photo walking by the Tramps, Tim posted, is Lansdale.

Regards

Dixie

[Shanet Clark]

Look how the Lansdale character has squeezed past a policeman,

into a tight fence position, close enough to whisper or even take a

handoff from the tramps. Like I said, no civilian could get exactly there,

The slope shoulder is the big Lansdale identifier, and signet ring.

Holt says there is a high fidelity crystal radio tuner scanner in the

paper bag. Were they a reserve team of observer/back up patsies?

Radio/gunman/lookout team?

Where they really in a boxcar from 12:30 to 2:30?

Shanet

[Dawn Meredith]

Look how the Lansdale character has squeezed past a policeman,

into a tight fence position, close enough to whisper or even take a

handoff from the tramps.  Like I said, no civilian could get exactly there,

The slope shoulder is the big Lansdale identifier, and signet ring.

Holt says there is a high fidelity crystal radio tuner scanner in the

paper bag.  Were they a reserve team of observer/back up patsies?

Radio/gunman/lookout team?

Where they really in a boxcar from 12:30 to 2:30?

Shanet

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Tim, (And Shanet, and Dee)

You are correct, I was trying to remember exactly what Prouty said from something I read a couple of years ago. (I probably have it in a file someplace).

Just remembered how certain he was that the guy from beind was Lansdale.

(And Prouty would know).

Black day for America yesterday. Up too late watching election returns, hoping for a miracle. Still stunned by this.

Dawn

[Dawn Meredith]

Hi Dawn...

Nice to have you join us!

As for Lansdale being one of the Tramps, according to Prouty  I am thinking you may be confused about this. Tim is correct in what he posted. Prouty did know Lansdale quite well, and did say that man in the photo walking by the Tramps, Tim posted, is Lansdale.

Regards

Dixie

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Opps, sorry Dixie I said "Dee", got your name backwards. Yes Tim is totally correct. (His memory is better than mine (But he probably also gets a lot more sleep too

Dawn

[Ron Ecker]

Lansdale is the one with his back to the camera, with the large class ring and hanging left shoulder.  I take it that he had a unique gait and/or physical carriage.

It was actually Lansdale's right shoulder that drooped. And he did apparently have a unique gait. Here are some photos for comparison:

[Wim Dankbaar]

Well, I must say, that twisted loose hand and the drooped shoulder in the comparison photos are quite consistent with the man in Dealey Plaza.

See this link:

http://lightscion.911review.org/CIA_general_ed_lansdale.htm

There was another guy that was convinced that it was Lansdale:

"The haircut, the stoop, the twisted left hand, the large class ring.

It's Lansdale." - Lt. Gen. Victor Krulak.

But if it was Lansdale, what I don't understand is why he would hang around for so long at the crime scene. The "tramps" were taken off the train more than an hour after the shooting.

Wim

[Tim Carroll]

It was actually Lansdale's right shoulder that drooped. And he did apparently have a unique gait. Here are some photos for comparison:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ron,

I stand corrected; you are right and the supporting photos are right on point. It's a reach to identify someone from the rear, but Prouty and Krulak would know, and I tend to believe that following the Lansdale, Operation Mongoose trail is critical. An interesting distinction in this is the hostility between Harvey and Lansdale, and the even greater hostility between Harvey and RFK, who hated Bobby "with a purple passion." Bad scene at JM/WAVE when, on a surprise visit, Bobby tried to walk out with a document and had it snatched away by Harvey. This is the operational nexus region that deserves serious scrutiny.

Tim

P.S. Dawn is incorrect in her assertions about the quality of my memory as well as the sufficiency of my sleep.