The windshield holes

[Lee Forman]

For fun.

A comparison of Warren Report exhibit ce350 with Altgens. IMO, the infamous 'spiral shaped through-and-through hole' is nothing more than an illusion created by a combination of the hair style of a little girl and a pleat of her Mother's dress, as they are standing at the side of the street on Elm, seen through the windshield of the Lincoln. See second attachment.

What this implies is a hit to the windshield from the front, which impacted the rear view mirror. The other implication, IMO, is a miss from the DalTex, which came from the rear, narrowly missed the top of Kennedy's head, penetrated the windshield and perhaps became unjacketed, and continued on it's trajectory and stuck the curb at Main street by the underpass, wounding Tague. The throat wound would have been fired from behind the retaining wall, and unfortunately clipped the top edge of the Stemmons Sign, before penetrating Kennedy's throat. The damage to the sign required alteration in the z-film, and the sign had to be replaced. The wound to Kennedy's throat was not large, as it had lost some of it's shape and size by striking the sign.

- lee

[Lee Forman]

Little girl's hairstyle, which matches that of the woman standing with her, whom I assume to be her Mother.

Note: This photo, IMO, contains extensive alteration - especially in the area of the Lincoln interior, but also in the deliberate defacing of 2? individuals standing on the stairs in the doorway of the TSBD. I assume one of the victims was either Billy Lovelady or Lee Harvey Oswald.

- lee

[Lee Forman]

Something to think about....

[Tim Gratz]

But:

Was Oswald in the doorway, or was he in the second floor lunchroom?

Laws of physics seems to say he could not be in both places at once.

What was the timing of this photo re the shots?

Edited February 24, 2005 by Tim Gratz

[Lee Forman]

But:

Was Oswald in the doorway, or was he in the second floor lunchroom?

Laws of physics seems to say he could not be in both places at once.

What was the timing of this photo re the shots?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tim,

IMO, the 'introduced' Jackie gloved hand on the impossible Kennedy arm makes it appear as if it corresponds with something like z253, but I believe it is actually much earlier, and soon after Kennedy was struck in the throat. If you consider the holes in holes [plural] in the windshield - it leads me to consider the strong possibility of 3 separate vollies or fusillades fired at the Lincoln. This would be a short time after the first volley, and before Connally is hit [in the chest or in the back is still a mystery to me].

Here's a few more items to chew on.

I can pull out some of the details on one of the defaced individuals. It appears to be a man speaking on a radio [Wisconsin radio receipt?]. The other is simply erased.

If you consider the technique applied to the backyard photo of matting another individual's head on another person's body, perhaps Billy Lovelady was 'decapitated' and pasted over Lee's face. Billy is seen in other photos following this one with his shirt buttoned almost to his collar - NOT unbuttoned to the waist - which was LHO's known style of dress.

If you examine the Warren Report exhibit, wh_vol16_0304b?, on the Algens photo, there is a strange appearance at the left of Connally, which IMO may in fact be Kennedy's profile.

The photo has seen significant 'handling' and I have one version which seems to imply that Kennedy's head was under the roof of the Lincoln - when this would be impossible.

- lee

[Lee Forman]

The 'profile.'

Worth noting is another Altgens that I have in which this area is blank.

- lee

[Lee Forman]

The bizarre 'roof' over Kennedy's head. Note that this is the only Altgens I have ever seen in which the rearview mirror is so pronounced, particularly the strut. Also worth noting is how dark Kennedy's hair appears.

If you view Kennedy's location in other photos, prior to the throat shot, you see that he is directly against the righthand side of the limo, and is even resting his arm on the edge of the door. This is not consistent, IMO, with his location in the Altgens we see today - which appears to have Kennedy more centrally located, and with an arm that somehow ends under the steering wheel of the car.

- lee

[Lee Forman]

The little girl, whose hairstyle has mistakenly led some to believe it was part of a spiral shaped hole in the windshield, implying a 100 yard + South Knoll shot, taken by a maniac with no sense of professional training.

SIONICS taught how to safely target a perpetrator with a windshield shot - close range, and at a downwards angle of some 45 degrees.

- lee

[Lee Forman]

Penetrate the tint in ce350 and you get a hole.

I theorize that the rearview took the brunt of the impact from a shot that was fired from the front. Trajectory? Perhaps it was shards of the glass from the mirror that caused the lacerations to Kennedy's face - or the bullet may have glanced off the rearview.

Many unknowns.

- lee

[John Ritchson]

Penetrate the tint in ce350 and you get a hole.

I theorize that the rearview took the brunt of the impact from a shot that was fired from the front.  Trajectory?  Perhaps it was shards of the glass from the mirror that caused the lacerations to Kennedy's face - or the bullet may have glanced off the rearview.

Many unknowns.- lee

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Greetings:

I recommend everyone interested in this issue to take a good hard look at Doug Weldon's work with respect to the windshield bullet hole being made from a frontal shot.

Doug makes a very compelling case and my own ballistic tests conducted in the late 90s proves that under the proper conditions it is in fact possible to fire a bullet through a windshield producing a relatively clean hole without frosting or spidering.

Sam McClung has also done some good work demonstrating the plausibility of the frontal shot through the windshield bullet hole scenerio.

Respectfully:

[Lee Forman]

Hi John!

I would like to make a few observations:

1. I am contesting the location of the 'through and through' spiral shaped crack and hole in the windshield previously advertised. The locations I believe are the 'genuine' holes do not appear to support a >100 yard South Knoll shooter with a trajectory that can be carried from the location of Kennedy's throat back to the south side of the Underpass.

2. I am theorizing that there are at least 2 holes - one from the rear and one from the front. The front hole is almost exactly parallel with the bottom edge of the rear view mirror. I have a theory as to where this shot may have originated, but again, I do not believe it to be the South Knoll locale.

3. I'm sure it is very possible to shoot through a windshield - I'd be interested to know what the conditions were, as per your comment - but keep in mind that the possibility does not imply the plausibility. I don't know that a professional sniper would have taken such a risky shot? From over a hundred yards at a moving target, possibly through foliage and with spectators on the south side of Elm presenting a high risk? Also with the hesitation that a Presidential automobile would be equipped with an especially thick glass treatment? What's your impression on taking that kind of a shot - without the benefit of the knowledge that it is feasible?

4. The only known 'witness' to account for a round being fired from the South Knoll is Tosh Plumlee - whose claim to being present in Dealey Plaza, as I understand it, is yet to be confirmed.

5. Mitch WerBell's SIONICS taught how to shoot through a windshield - as per this thread. The technique used was at almost point blank range, and at an angle of some 45 degrees. I can find this reference, if you'd like.

6. The tinting of the area in the Warren Report exhibit of the windshield correlate almost perfectly to areas of what appear to be damage in the Altgens photo. Enhancement of the tinting yields what appears to be holes [plural].

7. A Mr. Brown [?] who was present in DP on 11/22/63 informed me that Officer J.W. Foster? was a very close family friend, and he vouched for his character and the impossibility of a round being fired from the South Knoll position, where Foster was standing guard.

8. IMO, the claim that the location of the 'spiral shaped hole' corresponds with an anomoly in the windshield which can be seen in z225? is in fact the reflection of something being held in Greer's left hand.

With respect to your work and your level of expertise, I would like your impression of the following enhancement, which I have posted elsewhere. What appears to be an individual, lying on the steps, can be found on the north side of Elm, in Muchmore. I have enlarged and enhanced the object in question.

Consider: Roger Craig's story about the incident at 300 1/2 South Ewing in the Oak Cliff area.

We went back into the bedroom from the kitchen. While in the bedroom he said, "I want to show you something." He opened the top drawer of the dresser and pulled out a shoulder holster -- there was a 32 revolver with a three inch barrel in the shoulder holster. He pulled the 32 out of the holster and said, "what do you think about that?" I remarked that you don't see many 32's with a barrel like that. He put the 32 back in the drawer and went around to the side of the closet which was not visible when you went into the kitchen. At that time he produced two rifles -- one was a bolt action which looked like a 30.06, the other was a high power automatic which appeared to be a 257 caliber.

I can't recall the reference - but I believe there is another account that a 30.06 was used in the assassination.

Is it at all feasible that a man could lay in the position illustrated, with a newspaper or something draped over his weapon to conceal it - say the 30.06, and from the area of the stairs, fire a round over the head of Emmett Hudson [who was in a prone position] as the motorcade drew within an almost parallel position to the stairs, and hit Kennedy in the side of the head, with an impact that would sweep him over sideways as if he were hit with a baseball bat [bill Newman's account to Ian Griggs]? In which case his leg might dangle over the edge of the Lincoln, and his shoe could still be seen when the Lincoln arrived at parkland? Would a 30.06 have sufficient power to cause such a tremendous physical reaction from that distance [+/- 20 feet] and create the damage that certain researchers believe is the case, barring the altered and missing medical evidence? Is this a typical sniper type position?

- lee

[Bill Cheslock]

For fun.

A comparison of Warren Report exhibit ce350 with Altgens.  IMO, the infamous 'spiral shaped through-and-through hole' is nothing more than an illusion created by a combination of the hair style of a little girl and a pleat of her Mother's dress, as they are standing at the side of the street on Elm, seen through the windshield of the Lincoln.  See second attachment.

What this implies is a hit to the windshield from the front, which impacted the rear view mirror.  The other implication, IMO, is a miss from the DalTex, which came from the rear, narrowly missed the top of Kennedy's head, penetrated the windshield and perhaps became unjacketed, and continued on it's trajectory and stuck the curb at Main street by the underpass, wounding Tague.  The throat wound would have been fired from behind the retaining wall, and unfortunately clipped the top edge of the Stemmons Sign, before penetrating Kennedy's throat.  The damage to the sign required alteration in the z-film, and the sign had to be replaced.  The wound to Kennedy's throat was not large, as it had lost some of it's shape and size by striking the sign.

- lee

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lee:

There are two witnesses who saw a bullet hole in the limousine windshield.

Sergeant Starvis Ellis was interviewed in 1976 on CFTR radio in 1976 and shared

his observations at Parkland Hospital on November 22, 1963. He said, "I showed

it to Chaney at the hospital. You could take a regular standard writing pencil - wood pencil and stick it through there."

Yet another witness to the bullet hole in the windsheild was Evalea Glanges.

At the time she was a medical student at Parkland. In his book, "JFK Conspiracy of Silence," Dr. Charles Crenshaw writes that Ms. Glanges told him she was outside in the emergency room parking lot and standing beside the president's limousine. She told Dr. Crenshaw that she pointed out to another medical student

that there was a bullet hole in the windshield.

There is no reason to believe that these witnesses are fabricating their

stories.

Bill

[Lee Forman]

Lee:

There are two witnesses who saw a bullet hole in the limousine windshield.

Sergeant Starvis Ellis was interviewed in 1976 on CFTR radio in 1976 and shared

his observations at Parkland Hospital on November 22, 1963. He said, "I showed

it to Chaney at the hospital. You could take a regular standard writing pencil - wood pencil and stick it through there."

Yet another witness to the bullet hole in the windsheild was Evalea Glanges.

At the time she was a medical student at Parkland. In his book, "JFK Conspiracy of Silence," Dr. Charles Crenshaw writes that Ms. Glanges told him she was outside in the emergency room parking lot and standing beside the president's limousine. She told Dr. Crenshaw that she pointed out to another medical student

that there was a bullet hole in the windshield.

There is no reason to believe that these witnesses are fabricating their

stories.

Bill

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bill,

I don't believe you read my thread.

- lee

[Shanet Clark]

Here's an old AP wirephoto of the assassination.

If you know where to look, the bullet hole in the windshield is pretty clear.

There is an unusual amount of "dust" and what looks like confetti.

I suspect this was added to make the bullet hole in the windshield ambiguous.

I had to reduce the photo to post it. The hole was even more clear in the larger photo.

[Lee Forman]

Hi Shanet!

I don't know that I'd use the word 'easy.'

All:

Again, for anyone reading this, all I am attempting to do is to demonstrate that the previously recognized position for the bullethole - which I will have to illustrate in another attachment - is incorrect. The famous 'spiral shaped crack' and 'hole,' which seems to support a South Knoll shot-through-the-windshield throat wound, is not a bullethole. It is instead a combination of objects which are in fact to the rear of the Lincoln - my strong opinion, which is supported by some of the photos I have introduced in this thread.

I am theorizing that yes, there was a bullethole. IMO, an unmistakeable bullethole was present at the time of the photo of the windshield was submitted into evidence as ce350 for the Warren Report - however it was subjected to a similar 'tinting' form of alteration used on other photos, to disguise the bullethole.

Furthermore, I believe that there was more than one bullethole. The other, which I located based upon examination of ce350 compared with an overlay of the Altgens photo, is directly under the edge of the rearview mirror.

Shanet - using this view, see the attached.

The inset is an enlarged view of the windshield from the back of the Lincoln - Altgens 7. I am comparing it to ce350, which I have horizontally flipped. Let me say that again in case someone call me on it - I have horizontally flipped the view to coincide with the view from the rear - Altgens 7.

Both photos were slightly enhanced, with a negative view applied.

The green arrow is most interesting. It seems to correlate very well with the existence of the crack seen in ce350, and the crack the cover-up seemed so intent on 'restoring' to more than one replaced windshield [see Murder in Dealey Plaza]. I have not thoroughly examined that before, so that's about as far as I go on that one.

The blue arrows may indicate nothing. I have no idea, and don't wish to speculate. They could simply be dust, artifacts, etc. I tried to indicate their general location on ce350, as I found them in the rear view of the Lincoln [Altgens 7]. Outside of the scope of my argument.

The red arrows indicate the areas where I believe bulletholes are present - in ce350, and in the Altgens front view of the Lincoln [Altgens 6]. I would have to say that the result, using this view, is difficult to make any firm conclusions.

As you pointed out Shanet - too much noise in the general area - and I tried to use the highest quality version I had.

I will post one more photo in this thread which illustrates the area where I believe past research has incorrectly assumed the bullethole was located in the windshield. Also, if I can find the Warren Report exhibit which details the damage to the rear view mirror, I'll post that one as well.

I have examined every photo of which I am aware [publicly accessable], of the Lincoln, seeking to correlate the damage to the windshield, and the best so far has been the Warren Report and the Altgens 6.

- lee