The windshield holes

[Pamela Brown]

Since eyewitnesses of the limousine called it a "through and through bullet hole"

Those same witnesses saw bullet holes in different places in the windshield. There was definitely a defect in the windshield, but had it actually been a t&t hole it would have been obvious.

I say this is supporting proof of a shot from the front, and even more specifically,a SOUTH KNOLL TRIPLE UNDERPASS originating shot, as reported by my trusted friend and EDUCATION FORUM member, Wm. Tosh Plumlee...

With all due respect, that theory also comes right from Nigel Turner and TMWKK.

In addition, there doesn't need to be a t&t hole for there to have been a conspiracy. The sheer implausability of 'the SBT', not to mention the unexplained appearance of 'the magic bullet', plus the SS mishandling of the limo for 12 hours after the assassination give great credence to the fact that there was not only a conspiracy but a cover-up.

Pamela

[Pamela Brown]

The area that you are citing as the through-and-through bullethole appears to correlate with the location of the crack seen in ce350, and disputed in Fetzer's MIDP as created after-the-fact in a replaced windshield. It does not seem to coincide with the location of the infamous 'spiral' shaped hole, which is one item I am contesting. The SSH is much closer to the rear view than the comma shape you refer to in the Altgens 7.

- lee

Lee, per MIDP the windshield was not supposedly changed until 11.25.63. CE 350 was taken during the FBI exam of the limo on 11.23.63.

Pamela

[Lee Forman]

James:

Facinating photo. Any additional info as to the time and date stamp? I like this view very much for the headshot. Still to come is some additional info I am working for what I believe may be the second bullethole. Needs a trip to Dallas.

As relates to the stairs - found a facinating piece tonight rummaging through a box of someone's collection of JFK articles [internet purchase]. I will post it in the Zapruder Conspiracy seminar thread. More support for the operatives in that location from an eye-witness of which I had previously not been aware.

Al:

Also worth considering is the difference in the amount of time which elapsed between Altgens 6 and Altgens 7. You're making a very good point - but I still lean towards the area highlighted by Shanet as coinciding with the crack seen in ce350, which would have been the result of a bullet which impacted, but failed to penetrate, the windshield from the inside.

For the record - my personal estimate is a range of 9 - 14 shots fired.

I must confess, I tried to manipulate numerous views of the motorcade to determine Kennedy's location vs the view in Altgens 6 - it's a tough sell, but IMO, Kennedy would not have been located in the position we see him in - which seems to be closer to the center of the back seat.

However - IMO, this photo has been retouched - for example - Connally's enormous head, the hand and arm - stated to be that of John and Jackie Kennedy - are much too large, too close to windshield, and too far to our right - the arm and hand appear to pass under the steering wheel. There seems to be an area of no detail where the lower half of Jackie's head should appear. In the background, where we see Billy Lovelady standing in the doorway of the TSBD - there has been deliberate defacing of 2 individuals. Hard to trust the photo at all.

The loss of the negative by the AP darkroom clinches it for me.

But I will make an effort to create a similar overlay as best I possibly can, of the 2 views. I'll also search the z-film for similar areas of distortion as the holes I am indicating.

Pam: Thank you for the info on the timing. This lends more credence to my theory. I would like to demonstrate the areas of tinting, and an enlargement of same, enhanced, and get your impression. I have all this stuff already done on another pc.

In terms of the 'spade' like object - I don't see how it could be an item on the front seat? Also - I sought after as many high quality and early issued Altgens 6 photos as I could find. The area I am claiming to be a bullethole - in the views I have demonstrated thus far - are not of the highest quality. I can demonstrate a much better view of this distortion, and IMO, it's got a hole in the center.

I'll have to owe you these. Need to migrate some 640mb worth of data from my other pc.

Al and John:

You certainly have a great deal of knowledge concerning firearms - and I for one, greatly appreciate it. It's humorous to note that in originally studying the z-film, I was under the impression that Connally looked directly at his shooter, and that the wound was to his chest. My thinking was that he was the first 'suit' to emerge from behind the Stemmons Freeway sign for someone training their scope on this area - and was mistaken as the target. I sheepishly stood corrected by numerous sources - including John Connally's own words - however when I listened to the LBJ conversation concerning Connally being hit in the chest, I became again confused. Seems an awful lot of evidence says the wrist and thigh wounds were a separate shot - in all likelihood a 6th floor West TSBD shot. Connally's family refused to allow the shrapnel to be removed after he died - how remarkable. But his ego wouldn't allow him to suffer the indignity of being 'seconds' I guess.

I have a 6.5mm round which was fired by a Mannlicher Carcano through a copy of the Warren Report. It's nothing but shredded metal. Wish I had the opportunity to search the Lincoln myself before it went to the cleaners. Out of curiosity - let's say Connally was hit from a shot from the North Knoll. It hits him in the chest, smashed through a rib, and exits under the shoulder blade - only to become embedded in the seatback - logical? Or would it have continued on through the seatback and have wounded Jackie? I read some interesting material on the resistance of skin to a bullet - couple that with a bone and muscle tissue, followed by skin again - is it possible that it would have arrested within the seat cushion?

Take the other direction - discrediting entirely the SBT: Connally is hit from the rear [with a very interesting trajectory, IMO]. Where does the bullet go? At that point in the parade - shouldn't it be continuing on to strike a by-stander on the sidewalk on the North side of Elm? Or, exiting below the nipple, would it have impacted the interior side of the car?

- lee

[James Richards]

Facinating photo. Any additional info as to the time and date stamp? I like this view very much for the headshot. (Lee Forman)

Hi Lee,

I don't have precise information but it would have been within days of the assassination at the most.

James

[Robin Unger]

Penetrate the tint in ce350 and you get a hole.

I theorize that the rearview took the brunt of the impact from a shot that was fired from the front.  Trajectory?  Perhaps it was shards of the glass from the mirror that caused the lacerations to Kennedy's face - or the bullet may have glanced off the rearview.

Many unknowns.

- lee

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Possible "blood stains" on the windshield

Edited March 8, 2005 by Robin Unger

[Robin Unger]

Penetrate the tint in ce350 and you get a hole.

I theorize that the rearview took the brunt of the impact from a shot that was fired from the front. Trajectory? Perhaps it was shards of the glass from the mirror that caused the lacerations to Kennedy's face - or the bullet may have glanced off the rearview.

Many unknowns.

- lee

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Edited March 5, 2005 by Robin Unger

[Lee Forman]

Possible "blood stains" on the windshield

Very nice work Robin. I've been viewing that photo mainly in a 'negative' perspective, to more clearly highlight the defects. I couldn't figure out what those areas of distortion could be, which appeared solid white

I like the possibility you suggest immensely.

Curious, have you ever closely inspected the tinted areas I highlighted previously, from this same exhibit? Here's an example of the larger of the 2, which I hazard as a possibility for the hole seen by witnesses.

- lee

[Robin Unger]

Possible "blood stains" on the windshield

Very nice work Robin. I've been viewing that photo mainly in a 'negative' perspective, to more clearly highlight the defects. I couldn't figure out what those areas of distortion could be, which appeared solid white

I like the possibility you suggest immensely.

Curious, have you ever closely inspected the tinted areas I highlighted previously, from this same exhibit? Here's an example of the larger of the 2, which I hazard as a possibility for the hole seen by witnesses.

- lee

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Hi Lee.

Thanks for the comments.

I haven't had a good look at that particular area, i will check it out.

[Robin Unger]

Hi Lee.

Thanks for the comments.

I haven't had a good look at that particular area, i will check it out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Notice the mud on the whitewall tire, i wonder it it had rained somewhere between the airfield and the whitehouse garage.

Could some of the spots be "mud" splash.

Edited March 7, 2005 by Robin Unger

[Robin Unger]

Here's an old AP wirephoto of the assassination.

If you know where to look, the bullet hole in the windshield is pretty clear.

There is an unusual amount of "dust" and what looks like confetti.

I suspect this was added to make the bullet hole in the windshield ambiguous.

I had to reduce the photo to post it. The hole was even more clear in the larger photo.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Edited March 5, 2005 by Robin Unger

[James Richards]

Hi Robin,

Nice to see you here on the forum. The mud on the tires is very interesting.

James

[Robin Unger]

Hi Robin,

Nice to see you here on the forum. The mud on the tires is very interesting.

James

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi James.

I was looking over your site the other day you have some great images.

And thanks for the generous comments that you left in the my guestbook on my site.

This is the only image of the car i could find which showed the mud on the tires, in all the others, including Parkland images, the tires appear to be clean.

[Shanet Clark]

Must have been raining in Detroit at the Rouge River Ford Motor Company Glass Warehouse.........

[Lee Forman]

Robin,

Nice stuff. Very nice.

The David Robert Miller photo.

This is the one that stunned me concerning the shoe over the side. I had seen another photo, a similar view, in which an arrow pointed to the shoe and had a caption something like 'Clint Hill in the backseat, lying protectively over the Kennedys.' I don't see how that could be anything but Kennedy's leg and shoe hanging over the edge of the Lincoln.

The Justin Newman is certainly strange looking also.

- lee

[Pamela Brown]

This is the only image of the car i could find which showed the mud on the tires, in all the others, including Parkland images, the tires appear to be clean.

This photo was taken by the FBI during their forensic exam of 100X over 12 hours after the assassination. The car was driven from AAFB to DC in drizzle between 8 and 9 p.m. 11.22.63, most likely accounting for the mud on the tires.

Pamela