Operation on the Knoll - Theory

[Lee Forman]

Hello all.

The construct I work within says that JFK was assassinated by an extensive military operation involving a number of groups. Anti-Castro Cuban Exiles would have been one of these groups.

The area of the knoll was an extensive part of an operation which involved recording, communicating, securing, signalling and IMO, spotting and shooting.

In the minutes just prior to the arrival of the motorcade, some of these operatives would have set-up. Upon the arrival of the motorcade many would be in position, but others would be moving about to control and command the position. The use of camoflauge was deployed - in the form of business suits, railroad worker uniforms, DPD uniforms, etc. and an extensive use of cameras.

Following the execution of the program and the successful elimination of the target, the teams would break down and make their exit - many via the back parking lot on the knoll. Some operatives continued to film the aftermath.

For multiple reasons [sBT of course being a given], the entire operation in this location was concealed. Very little record exists of their presence. In terms of eye-witness accounts, we mainly have only the accounts of JC Price, Jean Hill, James Altgens [Lifton interview], Emmett Hudson and Charles Roberts to rely on.

Any new information in regards to confirming the existence of these operatives would be greatly appreciated.

What I'd like to attempt to portray is the existence of the operation - segmented according to geographical locations. Unfortunately, I will have to rely on enhancements and enlargements, as it's my theory that these operatives have all been concealed within the photographic record.

I would like to extend the invitation to any and all to join in. My major focus in the past has been the stairs on the north side of Elm, and the retaining wall, but I think it would be wise to include the individuals behind the fence, the pillbox, and the area in front of the retaining wall, the shelter of the pergola, and the sidewalk as fair game as well.

Note: It's important to attempt to timestamp any photograph being offered as evidence. We can make use of the z-film frame numbers as a reference for timing during the action, but for the aftermath I'm anticipating that it may become more difficult [it will for me personally in any event].

The reason for this is relatively simple - it would be of more value to locate the operatives at different points in time to avoid redundancy. Also, no one should expect to see the same operative in the same position at two largely disjointed points in time. However, I think it's only right to attempt to 'prove' the existence of a given individual on the basis of multiple mediums wherever possible.

For example, if I find a man in Moorman 5, which is allegedly within seconds of z313, then I should be able to uncover the same individual in Muchmore, and perhaps Nix. Three's the charm.

Would anyone be interested in participating? Even if you don't agree with the construct?

The methodology would be to provide the full frame and author, indicate the area in question, and then add an inset, enlarged [or enhanced and enlarged] of the target area.

Anyway - this has been a great learning experience for me, and I know I've made multiple mistakes. I'm sure I will continue to make mistakes, but it's a dynamic learning process. IMO, photographic analysis of the photos and films, especially when coupled as possible with eye-witness accounts or other evidence, qualifies as significant and important research towards providing the proofs of conspiracy.

[Guest Eugene B. Connolly]

I have been reading your 'construct' post and find it

interesting.

EBC

Edited March 15, 2005 by Eugene B. Connolly

[Jim Hamilton]

Hi.oh dear,Sorry but your post started a little interesting dwindled in the middle & by the end was utter rubbish in itself.sorry.

You made comparisons to Lees work/ideas to totally wild theorys,why?

Having mailed with Mr Forman for some time now i've been privy to 99% of his hard work on the Assassination,most of which will not get posted on here because of persons like yourself,no offence.

With respect perhaps your next post may deal with Lee's comments in a more constructive way other than flying off about Aliens,LOL.

Your post was nothing but a shortcut to thinking,again no offence.

kindest regards jim.

[Robin Unger]

Hi.oh dear,Sorry but your post started a little interesting dwindled in the middle & by the end was utter rubbish in itself.sorry.

You made comparisons to Lees work/ideas to totally wild theorys,why?

Having mailed with Mr Forman for some time now i've been privy to 99% of his hard work on the Assassination,most of which will not get posted on here because of persons like yourself,no offence.

With respect perhaps your next post may deal with Lee's comments in a more constructive way other than flying off about Aliens,LOL.

Your post was nothing but a shortcut to thinking,again no offence.

kindest regards jim.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE:

This photographic record would have become a liability at some stage.

If this photographic record exists then someone must know of it.

If the photographic record of the assassination made by the "Babushka lady" existed, and we know from the photograhic evidence that it did, then someone must know of it. (yes)

Even if you beleive the Beverly Oliver story, that does not account for the fact that

40-years later it still hasn't surfaced.

I guess some people can keep secrets.

[Shanet Clark]

Lee is sincere and he is striving to come up with some new insights using the existing evidence.

We worked together well on that Zapruder Matted Area in frames one thru forty and I think the FUZZY AREA between the County Jail and County records is proof of forgery. The KODAK code letters that appear, disappear and reappear, in the left hand sprocket is intriguing, and Lee is one of the few to appreciate this.

I see very well the dark figure on the stairs, and the lenses are reasonable.

We have all seen bulging pocket radios on DCM and Jim Hicks and the black man with his back turned, and the FIRE ESCAPE spotter had a radio.

Recently we have seen Towner and the crowd of approx. 14 people on the OVERPASS, a violation of basic security, a great vantage point for the observers, and a very sensitive area for our "silent" member from the 6th Floor Museum.

With the SWEEP teams, the OVERPASS teams, the JAIL/RECORDS team, the RETAINING WALL TEAM (those rapid responders in the BADGEMAN CLASSIC GUNMAN and PERGOLA positions thirty seconds after the shooting) the suspicious traffic in the RAILROAD TOWER parking lot, the cigarette butts and muddy traffic behind the GRASSY KNOLL FENCE, the teams existed.....

The teams existed and Lee is correct to probe for more evidence of forgery and evasive actions on the part of the CONSTRUCTION workers, the SIGNAL TEAMS, the PHOTOGRAPHERS and the DRIVERS....THE LOOKALIKES, etc.

Basically, Lee has hit us with some difficult graphics to grasp,

but I think his approach and theoretical sense is quite sound.

[Lee Forman]

'Careful with that axe Eugene.'

A little humor for any Pink Floyd fans on the forum.

Eugene,

This thread has been posted under the 'debate' section. In my opinion, it's not open to debate. If it's your recommendation that it be moved to the seminar section I will make the recommendation to Mr. Simkin.

Clearly I am privy to more information that you, as well as more intensive study of the subject matter at hand. I will dignify your questions with a response, but must impress you with the fact that what is required here is contributions and progress.

In terms of the logic or the rationale behind the planning of the assassination, and why certain areas would have been selected, and etc. - I was not consulted as to the plan, and I am not familiar with any of the operatives that were present in these areas, so I have no answer for you. Second guessing as to 'why' certain things occurred the way they did is not productive. Attempting to 'project' assumptions based upon our own logic and experience is an excercise in futility.

However, I will present the following information for your benefit. As of today, I now am aware of 5 separate films have been witnessed, which have never been released. Two from the area of the retaining wall, two most likely from the North Peristyle and one from the 6th floor of the TSBD. I will not disclose identities - I can only reference that which has been published - in which case, you may consult 'Murder in Dealey Plaza' by James Fetzer, page 354, which has details concerning a witness of one of these other films.

Please consider accepting my open invitation to assist in the project.

Jim and Shanet,

Thanks for the comments! Much appreciated!

All:

Let's make some progress here. Given the amount of time and effort I have devoted to the stairs and to the retaining wall, I thought it would be interesting to start someplace else, and see what others have to share. The area in question that I think very significant in terms of an appropriate starting point is behind the fence. There is a limited amount of data available, but what there is should be examined.

This is a photo that was posted on a forum. I do not know the author. Initially, I'd like to post it without enhancement or other detail. However, I will make a few observations.

The view in this photo appears to be due West - with a train in the backdrop.

1. How many individuals can you see in the photo?

2. Where are the Police records concerning the vehicles and occupants?

3. The Chevy II SS has a Texas plate - is it possible to trace?

4. The Cuban-looking individual driving in the Chevy bears a remarkable resemblance, IMO, to one of the individuals I have found on the stairs. Make note of his hat.

5. The Cuban-looking individual speaking to the occupants of the Chevy bears a remarkable resemblance, IMO, to one of the individuals I have found behind the retaining wall. Make note of his hat.

6. How many Police officers are in this photo?

7. The photo is B&W, however, the car in question seems to correlate very well with the story of Roger Craig - is this a coincidence?

8. Can you find a man on a radio in his car, as per Lee Bowers testimony?

There are a few more behind the fence photos we can play with here - one especially from KOAP, one from Skaggs, and some stills we can do from the film sequence taken in the aftermath behind the retaining wall [Daniel?].

We can examine this area first, and then move on to the next. I'd greatly appreciate any ideas as to the next area - but I'd like to recommend that we concentrate on the knoll to stay focused.

- lee

[Lee Forman]

If the photographic record of the assassination made by the "Babushka lady" existed, and we know from the photograhic evidence that it did, then someone must know of it. (yes)

Even if you beleive the Beverly Oliver story, that does not account for the fact that

40-years later it still hasn't surfaced.

I guess some people can keep secrets.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Great observation Robin!

There's a lot to that, but it still continues to leak out. I am confident that we'll get one in our hands. The issue I am concerned with will be the disinformationist response - which will most likely make use of the 'tainted' record to disprove the true account.

I can imagine an especially selected group of 'unbiased' experts reviewing a genuine record, and 2 years later issuing a report which would find that the film was 'a well made phony.'

- lee

[Shanet Clark]

Is that a Rambler, its smaller than a Fairlane Ford?

The train should never been allowed to screen the Overpass and River --

Security Stripped, if a train blocked the site !!!

THis is the three tramps train, the tactical command post for FRENCHY and HOLT and HARRELSON, and the train should have been held off the OVERPASS.

Even Wm TOSH and SERGIO used the convenient tracks route out, spontaneously...

The tracks are the key, and why the ARCADE at Dealey did make sense.

Careful with that AXE, Eugenia, and pour on the photo analysis.

Perfunctory fake papers exercise, and young mercenary types being waved through...

[Lee Forman]

Is that a Rambler, its smaller than a Fairlane Ford?

Hey Shanet!

Pretty certain that it's a 1962 or 1963 Chevy SS, and that the License plate is from Texas.

Great observations as always!

- lee

Roger Craig, from 'To kill a President.'

The President had passed and was turning west on Elm Street . . . as if there were no people, no cars, the only thing in my world at that moment was a rifle shot! I bolted toward Houston Street. I was fifteen steps from the corner -- before I reached it two more shots had been fired. Telling myself that it wasn't true and at the same time knowing that it was, I continued to run. I ran across Houston Street and beside the pond, which is on the west side of Houston. I pushed a man out of my way and he fell into the pond. I ran down the grass between Main and Elm. People were lying all over the ground. I thought, "My God, they've killed a woman and child," who were lying beside the gutter on the South side of Elm Street. I checked them and they were alright. I saw a Dallas Police Officer run up the grassy knoll and go behind the picket fence near the railroad yards. I followed and behind the fence was complete confusion and hysteria.

I began to question people when I noticed a woman in her early thirties attempting to drive out of the parking lot. She was in a brown 1962 or 1963 Chevrolet. I stopped her, identified myself and placed her under arrest. She told me that she had to leave and I said, "Lady, you're not going anywhere." I turned her over to Deputy Sheriff C. I. (Lummy) Lewis and told him the circumstances of the arrest. Officer Lewis told me that he would take her to Sheriff Decker and take care of her car.

The parking lot behind the picket fence was of little importance to most of the investigators at the scene except that the shots were thought to have come from there.

Let us examine this parking lot. It was leased by Deputy Sheriff B. D. Gossett. He in turn rented parking space by the month to the deputies who worked in the court house, except for official vehicles. I rented one of these spaces from Gossett when I was a dispatcher working days or evenings. I paid Gossett $3.00 per month and was given a key to the lot. An interesting point is that the lot had an iron bar across the only entrance and exit (which were the same). The bar had a chain and lock on it. The only people having access to it were deputies with keys. Point: how did the woman gain access and, what is more important, who was she and why did she have to leave?

This was to be the beginning of the never-ending cover up. Had I known then what I know now, I would have personally questioned the woman and impounded and searched her car. I had no way of knowing that an officer, with whom I had worked for four years, was capable of losing a thirty year old woman and a three thousand pound automobile. To this day Officer Lewis does not know who she was, where she came from or what happened to her. Strange!

[Guest Eugene B. Connolly]

This 'construct' idea certainly is interesting and may be a breakthrough.

EBC

Edited March 15, 2005 by Eugene B. Connolly

[Robin Unger]

 

The view in this photo appears to be due West - with a train in the backdrop.

1. How many individuals can you see in the photo?

2. Where are the Police records concerning the vehicles and occupants?

3. The Chevy II SS has a Texas plate - is it possible to trace?

4. The Cuban-looking individual driving in the Chevy bears a remarkable resemblance, IMO, to one of the individuals I have found on the stairs.  Make note of his hat.

5. The Cuban-looking individual speaking to the occupants of the Chevy bears a remarkable resemblance, IMO, to one of the individuals I have found behind the retaining wall.  Make note of his hat.

6. How many Police officers are in this photo?

7. The photo is B&W, however, the car in question seems to correlate very well with the story of Roger Craig - is this a coincidence? 

8. Can you find a man on a radio in his car, as per Lee Bowers testimony?

There are a few more behind the fence photos we can play with here - one especially from KOAP, one from Skaggs, and some stills we can do from the film sequence taken in the aftermath behind the retaining wall [Daniel?]. 

We can examine this area first, and then move on to the next.  I'd greatly appreciate any ideas as to the next area - but I'd like to recommend that we concentrate on the knoll to stay focused.

- lee

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In this image the man driving the pick up truck is being questioned.

Look at this man's hat and clothes and compare it to the man in the images from inside the DPD below. (Credit: Denis Morrisette}

Could this be the same man. ??

[Lee Forman]

[quote name=Jim Hamilton' date='

You made comparisons to Lees work/ideas to totally wild theorys,why?

Having mailed with Mr Forman for some time now i've been privy to 99% of his hard..........

'Privy' is indeed the word.

This 'construct' idea certainly is World Class.

Let's not get bogged down in unnecessary truths.

Anyone got any papers for this 'construct'?

EBC

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I remind you sir, of the rules of behavior established for this forum, outlined and pinned by John Simkin.

If you have nothing constructive to add, and no meaningful contribution to make, I ask that you cease and desist from adding further inanities on this thread.

Certainly there are a number of grey areas, which is why I believe a joint effort is so significant. I again invite you to participate - but if instead you desire only to continue to engage in the exchange of banalities, speaking for myself personally - you will be ignored.

- lee

[Lee Forman]

In this image the man driving the pick up truck is being questioned.

Look at this man's hat and clothes and compare it to the man in the images from inside the DPD below. (Credit: Denis Morrisette}

Could this be the same man. ??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Interesting Robin.

James Richards had posted a likeness of the individual at the DPD to Dick Whatley in the thread on Interpen. Did you see it?

The pick-up truck is interesting. Multiple references to pick-up trucks that day. It doesn't appear that this pick-up is the same make as the one seen at the start of the Muchmore film. But Muchmore's truck may be a fit for the one seen by Julia Mercer.

What about the one seen in Zapruder, that Jack White has demonstrated to be retouched? Are there 2 pick-ups parked on Main?

Wish we had this in color. Does it appear in Hughes panning of the parking lot? I had the 'behind the fence scene' from KOAP - I now realize it is a frame from Hughes.

- lee

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/jfkinfo/jfk9/hscv9c.htm

Jones and Guthrie met for the first time on November 1, 1946.(327) During their conversation, Jones mentioned some people from Chicago who had moved to Dallas--Marcus Lipsky, James Weinberg, Paul Labriola, Julian Breakstone, Lou Schneider, and Jimmy Barcella. Jones also discussed the opening of a club in Dallas and stated:

Here is my proposition to you. You pick a man, a local man, we will put him in business. We will rent him a building but we will finance it We will put in some juke boxes, some marble tables, some sort of slot machines. We will get him a mechanic and a pickup truck. We will start hustling getting him some locations, legitimately, no muscles attached. Somebody that you trust. if you trust him, I trust him. We will furnish him all the slot machines, marble tables, punchboards, et cetera. We will operate and there will be only one gambling house in the county. (328)

Jim Garrison described this strange event in his book On the Trail of the Assassins (pp 57-58):

As we later learned from [automobile] salesmen Fred Sewall and Oscar Deslatte, two men claiming to represent an organization called Friends of Democratic Cuba arrived at the Bolton [Ford dealership on North Claiborne Avenue in New Orleans] on January 20, 1961. This was only three months before the abortive Bay of Pigs attempt to invade Cuba. .... One of the men was a powerfully built Latin with a thick neck and a distinct scar over his left eyebrow. The other was a thin, young Anglo-Saxon who obviously was in charge.

The two men indicated that they wanted to buy ten Ford pickup trucks. They wanted a bid from Bolton Ford on the price. The Latin identified himself as "Joseph Moore,"but said the bid had to be in the name of "Oswald." The young Anglo-Saxon confirmed this, explaining that "Oswald" was his name and that he was the one with the money. Instead of asking the buyers to sign, Deslatte himself printed the name "Oswald" on the form.

SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT, COUNTY OF DALLAS, TEXAS

Before me, the undersigned authority on this the 22nd day of November A.D. 1963, personally appeared Julia Ann Mercer, Address 5200 Belmont, No. 208, Dallas, Age 23, Employed: Automat Distributors, 1720 Canton, Dallas.

Deposes and says:

On November 22, 1963, I was driving a rented White Valient automobile west on Elm Street and was proceeding to the overpass in a westerly direction and at a point about 45 or 50 feet east of the overhead signs of the right entrance road to the overpass, there was a truck parked on the right hand side of the road. The truck looked like it had 1 or 2 wheels up on the curb. The hood of the truck was open. On the driver's side of the truck, there were printed letters in black, oval shaped, which said "Air Conditioning". This was a pickup truck and along the back side of the truck were what appeared to be tool boxes. The truck was a green Ford with a Texas license. I remember seeing the word "Ford" at the back of the truck.

A man was sitting under the wheel of the car and slouched over the wheel. This man had on a green jacket, was a white male and about his 40's and was heavy set. I did not see him too clearly. Another man was at the back of the truck and reached over the tailgate and took out from the truck what appeared to be a gun case. This case was about 8" wide at its widest spot and tapered down to a width of about 4" or 5". It was brown in color. It had a handle and was about 3 1/2 to 4 feet long. The man who took this out of the truck then proceeded to walk away from the truck and he reached down to free it. He then proceeded to walk across the grass and up the grassy hill which forms part of the overpass. This is the last I saw of this man.

I had been delayed because the truck which I described was blocking my passage and I had to await until the lane to my left cleared so I could go by the truck.

During the time that I was at this point and observed the above incident there were 3 policeman standing talking near a motorcycle on the bridge just west of me.

The man who took what appeared to be the gun case out of the truck was a white male, who appeared to be in his late 20's or early 30's and he was wearing a grey jacket, brown pants and plaid shirt as best as I can remember. I remember he had on some kind of a hat that looked like a wool stocking hat with a tassell in the middle of it. I believe that I can identify this man if I see him again.

The man who remained in the truck had light brown hair and I believe I could identify him also if I were to see him again.

(signed by) Julia Ann Mercer.

Subscribed and sworn to before me on this the 22nd of November A.D. 1963

(signed by) Rosemary Allen

Notary Public, Dallas, Texas

[Robin Unger]

In this image the man driving the pick up truck is being questioned.

Look at this man's hat and clothes and compare it to the man in the images from inside the DPD below. (Credit: Denis Morrisette}

Could this be the same man. ??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Interesting Robin.

James Richards had posted a likeness of the individual at the DPD to Dick Whatley in the thread on Interpen. Did you see it?

The pick-up truck is interesting. Multiple references to pick-up trucks that day. It doesn't appear that this pick-up is the same make as the one seen at the start of the Muchmore film. But Muchmore's truck may be a fit for the one seen by Julia Mercer.

What about the one seen in Zapruder, that Jack White has demonstrated to be retouched? Are there 2 pick-ups parked on Main?

Wish we had this in color. Does it appear in Hughes panning of the parking lot? I had the 'behind the fence scene' from KOAP - I now realize it is a frame from Hughes.

- lee

Lee.

I must have missed James post.

There certainly were a lot of pick up trucks around that day, i even remember seeing a photo of one at parkland hospital, and at love field.

Edited March 11, 2005 by Robin Unger

[James Richards]

Hi Robin,

This is the comparison I did. It must be pointed out that someone who knows Whatley very well said, and with some gusto, that this man is not him.

FWIW.

James