A Sixth Floor Shooter per Hemming

[Tim Gratz]

John, from what others have said, a shooter from the west end window seems to make sense.

You have offered a good reason why Connally himself may have been a target, except that if indeed he knew an assassination was in the works and LBJ put him "in harm's way", he sure was nice to keep quiet about it! His friendship almost cost him his life.

Your idea about Droller/Bender is worth pursuing with Gerry and I will. It was my impression however that Gerry believed the man shooting from the west end window was an assassin for hire.

Of course, Gerry does not claim first hand knowledge of this. His info comes, I believe, from an intelligence officer from Central America who heard the assassin on an intercepted phone call.

Edited March 12, 2005 by Tim Gratz

[Al Carrier]

All,

Hemming is the classic example of why assassination research continues to veer off into the unknowns and wastes time and energy, as well as making this research look like spook chasers instead of true investigative work. He was a wanna-a-be hanger-oner then and he has simply made himself more important as time has passed since then. His associations mirror who he was and this forum as so many other venures of assassination research look into connections in this arena as being realistic participants in the assassination.

Hemming was simply convenient for cover projects as he and his derelict associates presented themselves and spun their wheels. Now some forty plus years later, he is presenting himself and being accepted by in large by the research community as someone who would have a clue about such an operation.

I personnally put Hemming at roughly the level of Files, with the exception that Hemming did exist in this arena (although on the outside) when Files was nothng more than a gopher and bagman for the mob. Both however are as reliable when it comes to the truth.

My question to all is this; If you were to plan an assassination of the president within the government, would you utilize radicals and persons of lower mantality outside of the realm of what was available to you, or would you utilize military personnel who you could bring in and out and eliminate and provide a cover for their demise?

It is actually as simple as that and that is why we are all still here discussing this injustice.

I am off to North Carolina for five or six days and will check in periodically.

Al

[Tim Gratz]

Al, some of Hemming's associates may have been of "lower mentality" but I can assure you that despite Mr. Hemming's lack of a formal education, he is one of the most intelligent people I have talked to, with a photographic memory for names and other details. He is always also very gracious on the telephone.

I recently obtained a copy of the JFK lancer CD on Hemming which has a lot of documents. One interesting one is a 1978 letter from Judge Griffin of Ohio (former WC staff member) to Robert Blakely. Hemming walked into Griiffin's office, made an appointment with him, and proceeded, at the appointed time, to tell Judge Griffin why the WC was wrong that there was a conspiracy. To call Gerry Hemming an interesting persaon would be an understatement.

I understand you do not credit him ("a legend in his own mind", as you cleverly phrase it). Many other researchers believe, however, that he was personally acquainted with people who participated in the assassination. If he is giving us false information, he may be wasting our time, but he was certainly a player in the anti-Castro activities of the early sixties and, in my opinion, his "revelations" should not be summarily dismissed. Certainly many criminal investigations involve checking "leads" that turn out to be false. One cannot dismiss the "lead" without checking it out unless the informant is obviously a nut-case, which Gerry Hemming clearly is not.

Regardless of what you think of Mr. Hemming, I would be interested if you agree with the others that a trajectory from the west window of the sixth floor of the TSBD is consistent with some of the wounds, missed shots, etc.

Thanks!

Edited March 12, 2005 by Tim Gratz

[Al Carrier]

Al, some of Hemming's associates may have been of "lower mentality" but I can assure you that despite Mr. Hemming's lack of a formal education, he is one of the most intelligent people I have talked to, with a photographic memory for names and other details.  He is always also very gracious on the telephone.

I recently obtained a copy of the JFK lancer CD on Hemming which has a lot of documents.  One interesting one is a 1978 letter from Judge Griffin of Ohio (former WC staff member) to Robert Blakely.  Hemming walked into Griiffin's office, made an appointment with him, and proceeded, at the appointed time, to tell Judge Griffin why the WC was wrong that there was a conspiracy.  To call Gerry Hemming an interesting persaon would be an understatement.

I understand you do not credit him ("a legend in his own mind", as you cleverly phrase it). Many other researchers believe, however, that he was personally acquainted with people who participated in the assassination.  If he is giving us false information, he may be wasting our time, but he was certainly a player in the anti-Castro activities of the early sixties and, in my opinion, his "revelations" should not be summarily dismissed.  Certainly many criminal investigations involve checking "leads" that turn out to be false.  One cannot dismiss the "lead" without checking it out unless the informant is obviously a nut-case, which Gerry Hemming clearly is not.

Regardless of what you think of Mr. Hemming, I would be interested if you agree with the others that a trajectory from the west window of the sixth floor of the TSBD is consistent with some of the wounds, missed shots, etc.

Thanks!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tim,

Hemmings knowlege of of the anti-Castro activities of the early sixties is not something to qualify him. Consider the derelicts that were involved in rediculous government sponsored operations that never even came close to succeeding and also the realism of how one like Hemming could get within the community of such derelicts who were desperate to latch onto anyone who they believed to be associated to the government to further their cause, then we can see how he would be aware of these rediculous operations.

Leads have to be realistic to follow them. Hemming is not credible either then or now. He is a radical SOF at best and would not be trusted.

I will later comment on West End TSBD trajectories as it is not something new and something I have checked out. In the meantime, ask Hemming the need for the silencer (in actuality, supressor) for such a shot origin when it would be a positive step to draw attention to the TSBD higher elevation. It simply contradicts what would have been useful and twofold. From the street, one could not differentiate the two origins of the east and west high elevation windows.

Al

[Tim Gratz]

Al wrote:

Leads have to be realistic to follow them.

Al, with all due respect, if someone had suggested in 1964 that perhaps Castro should be considered a suspect because he might have been retaliating for CIA attempts to assassinate him through the Mafia, most people would have considered the person making that suggestion as a likely candidate for the looney-tunes. It is reported that when LBJ was first told of the CIA/Mafia plots he told someone that was as ridiculous as believing that Ladybird was dealing in drugs. No one then would have believed the CIA had engaged in a conspiracy to assassinate a head of state, let alone by use of the mafia.

And what if someone had suggested that a high-ranking US government bureacrat had suggested trying to overthrow Castro by staging a light show to look like the second coming of Christ ("elimination by illumination"); again, who would have credited that suggestion as worthy of investigation?

Hemming, as I said before, is a very intelligent person and his leads are not incredible on their face. I know James Richards believes Hemming may very be right about Izquierdo, and Hemming's suggestion that Rafael Trujillo's son may have wanted to avenge his father's murder is certainly within the realm of possibility. When one's parent has been murdered and one cannot look to the legal system for justice, the natural human instict for retribution certainly cannot be dismissed.

But I do appreciate your reply and look forward to your comments on the west window trajectory.

[Tim Gratz]

Lee wrote:

I think Gerry meant 'Thunderbolt and Lightfoot.' George Kennedy plays the part of 'Red Leary.' I don't recall the part Gerry refers to - only the scene with the rabbits.

I'm the one who blew the name of the movie, not Gerry! Sorry, folks!

[Robin Unger]

Hypothetical:

What if there WERE two shooters from the 6th floor, (1) Far East Window (1) Far West window.

Both rifles were left at the scene, but the Mausser had to vanish because (2)-rifles equalls Conspiracy.

Also the west window rifle did not belong to A.H. Hidell so it had to vanish.

This could have happened as the conspirators were arranging the placement of the three shells on the floor of the TSBD all lined up neatly in a row.

This may account for some earlier reports of a mausser rifle being seen on the 6th floor .

Edited March 12, 2005 by Robin Unger

[Tim Gratz]

Robin, I think your hypothetical makes a lot of sense.

And, with due respect to Al, if there were two rifles firing from the sixth floor but there was only supposed to be one assassin, clearly there was a need for one rifle to be "silenced".

It would be interesting for someone to very carefully analyze Connolly's wounds with respect to the trajectory suggested by Gerry Hemming.

And of course if Hemming's report is accurate that there was an assassin whose responsibility was to kill Connelly, it matters not the reason why the plotter wanted Connelly dead, other than that their motive might shed light on their identity.

[Robin Unger]

Robin, I think your hypothetical makes a lot of sense.

And, with due respect to Al, if there were two rifles firing from the sixth floor but there was only supposed to be one assassin, clearly there was a need for one rifle to be "silenced".

It would be interesting for someone to very carefully analyze Connolly's wounds with respect to the trajectory suggested by Gerry Hemming.

And of course if Hemming's report is accurate that there was an assassin whose responsibility was to kill Connelly, it matters not the reason why the plotter wanted Connelly dead, other than that their motive might shed light on their identity.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Tim.

Thanks for the comments.

Here are some of Don's photo's of the west window shooter

QUOTE:

This is also the exact same TSBD sixth-floor, farthest WEST,

open-during-the-attack window pair that in a DILLARD photo captured

about 30 seconds after the attack

Edited March 12, 2005 by Robin Unger

[Tim Gratz]

Robin,

Interesting that your photo shows only three fully opened windows. Presumably the windows were normally closed. By any chance are there any earlier photos of the TSBD on the 22nd that would show when the sixth floor windows were opened? Or at least would show that they were closed at some earlier time?

[Pat Speer]

Maybe they wanted to kill Connally too because he knew too much and wouldn't think it was funny when the shooting of JFK took place in Dealey Plaza, with Connally and his wife in the car, instead of the Trade Mart with the Connallys out of harm's way. Dead men don't hold grudges.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have grave doubts about this theory but if it is true, Ron's reasons make sense. If LBJ or the Suite 8F Group were involved in the assassination (as I believe they were) then Connally would have been one of the few who knew where all the bodies were buried. He would have been very unhappy that he had been sitting next to JFK when it happened. We know, for example, that he did not go along completely with the Warren Commission view of events.

If a German was involved I would suggest researchers take a look at Gerry Droller (not his real name). He was born in Germany in about 1905. Not a great deal is known about his early life but during the Second World War he worked closely with the Office of Strategic Services (OSS) and the Marquis in France.

After the war Droller was recruited into the Central Intelligence Agency and for a while was a desk officer in Switzerland. According to one report, Droller "was responsible for the reorganization of West Germany and the consequent strengthening of German-American relations". Later he was transferred to Formosa where he helped Chiang Kai-Shek "organize his government and army".

In 1954 Droller took part in the successful CIA operation to overthrow Jacobo Arbenz in Guatemala. Others involved in this project included Frank Wisner, Richard Bissell, Tracy Barnes, E. Howard Hunt, David Atlee Phillips, David Morales, Jake Esterline, Rip Robertson and William Pawley.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKdroller.htm

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In my research on Guatemala, I don't remember reading anything about Droller's role. I do remember reading about Henry Heckscher, a CIA agent from the Berlin station, who went undercover in Guatemala posing as a German businessman, and convinced members of Arbenz's military to defect. Heckscher went on to head the station in Laos and then Chile during the overthrow of Allende. The argument could be made then that he was an expert in volatile situations.

[Robin Unger]

Robin,

Interesting that your photo shows only three fully opened windows.  Presumably the windows were normally closed.  By any chance are there any earlier photos of the TSBD on the 22nd that would show when the sixth floor windows were opened? Or at least would show that they were closed at some earlier time?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tim.

I am still looking for that image.

As to the question of who would want Connally dead:

[Steve Thomas]

Robin,

You might be interested in this:

Steve Thomas

[Robin Unger]

Robin,

You might be interested in this:

Steve Thomas

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Steve.

That is very interesting.

Oswalds hand gun came from "Seaport traders" in Los Angeles.

[Ron Ecker]

Oswalds hand gun came from "Seaport traders" in Los Angeles.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

According to Armstrong in Harvey and Lee (pp. 481-484), there is no documentation that anyone was notified of the pistol's arrival at the REA office in Dallas (it could not be shipped via REA to a PO box), no signed receipt for the pistol, no receipt for COD charges, and no documentation that anyone paid the balance due on the pistol to REA or that REA remitted same to Seaport Traders. In short, the only time the pistol was known to be in Oswald's possession was when he was arrested at the Texas Theater.

Armstrong also says that Smith & Wesson .38 pistols sold to the public by Seaport Traders were first re-chambered to a .38 special. They could then fire regular .38 ammunition or both the longer and smaller diameter .38 Special cartridge.

There is also no explanation of why the Hidell order was filled by substituting the more expensive $39.95 ".38 S.&W. Spec." for the $29.95 model ordered.

Also, Texas law in 1963 required that anyone desiring to purchase a handgun first had to obtain a "certificate of good character" from a justice of the peace, county judge, or district judge. Seaport Traders should not have shipped a pistol to A.J. Hidell or anyone in Texas without receiving this certificate.

BTW I'm amazed that this type of "gun control" legislation existed in Texas or any other state in 1963. I thought anyone in those days could walk into a store and buy a handgun. That's why they were called "Saturday night specials."

Ron

Edited March 15, 2005 by Ron Ecker