Albert Alexander Osborne

[James Richards]

Hi Ron,

Here is a shot of the Osborne family with a very young Albert wearing the bow-tie. (in front)

James

Edited June 23, 2005 by James Richards

[Tim Gratz]

Where James comes up with these photos is absolutely incredible!

Query James do you have a copy of the allegedly scandalous Hoover photos?

[James Richards]

Query James do you have a copy of the allegedly scandalous Hoover photos? (Tim Gratz)

Can't help you there, Tim. If I did have copies I would either be rich or dead .

Gordon Novel claims to have seen the Hoover/Tolson shots.

James

[Tim Gratz]

You anticipated my next question, whether you believe such photos existed.

HOLD IT: I thought you WERE rich! Don't you live on the Gold Coast?

Edited June 23, 2005 by Tim Gratz

[Ron Ecker]

James,

Thanks for the photo.

Tim, I saw one of the Hoover photos years ago. At least it was purported to be. It was just a small photo in some mag, maybe Hustler, that somebody else had bought, or that I peeked into at the old newsstand down on University Ave. It certainly looked like J. Edgar. (Only part of the other person was in the photo.)

Ron

[Gary Buell]

CIA document #104-10124-10103 refers to a request for a QKEnchant

clearance for Hugh Chisholm McDonald, the author of the book

Appointment in Dallas. The memo is dated 8/3/76, after that book came

out. This memo states:

"Office of Security records do not support Mr. McDonald's claims to

Agency employment or involvement in clandestine operations. From 1955

to circa 1061 Mr. McDonald, as an independent contractor, assisted

Technical Service Division/Authentication Division/DDP in the

development of the Identikit.."

In May 1969 McDonald formed World

Associates, Inc. The memo states:

"In June 1969 Central Cover Staff evidenced interest in Mr. McDonald

under Project QKENCHANT. Commencing in January 1970 Mr. McDonald

initiated meetings with the Domestic Contact Service .."

[Tim Gratz]

Ron wrote:

Tim, I saw one of the Hoover photos years ago. At least it was purported to be. It was just a small photo in some mag, maybe Hustler, that somebody else had bought, or that I peeked into at the old newsstand down on University Ave. It certainly looked like J. Edgar. (Only part of the other person was in the photo.)

I resist the temptation to ask: "What part?"

It does raise the question why J. Edgar would allow himself to be photographed with part of another person, however.

Edited June 24, 2005 by Tim Gratz

[Tim Gratz]

If Osborne was indeed a conspirator, does this mean that Oswald was also a conspirator (and not the patsy so many of us had thought he was)?

[Greg Parker]

Ron, great article.

Don't know if you've heard about the allegation made by Ylario Rojas, but thought it might be of some interest. It relates to this para of your article:

Much of Torbitt’s story of Osborne as a leader of Mexico-based assassins seems to derive, according to Torbitt’s own citations, from a Texas murder case in 1952. As Torbitt recounts the case, two of the professionals from the Mexico nest of assassins, Mario Sapet and Alfredo Cervantes, accepted a private contract for a murder, as the assassins were allowed to do while awaiting authorized killing assignments. The intended victim was Jake Floyd, a District Judge in Alice, Texas, who was a bitter enemy of George Parr, the political boss of Duval County whose power extended into other counties as well. (It was Parr who among other things had helped Lyndon Johnson fraudulently win a seat in the U.S. Senate in 1948.) 59 On September 8, 1952, as the two assassins lay in wait outside Jake Floyd’s home, Floyd’s son Buddy came out of the house, and Cervantes mistakenly shot him dead. Sapet, Cervantes, and George Parr attorney Nago Alaniz were indicted for the crime. Cervantes escaped back into Mexico, but Sapet was caught and convicted, sentenced to 99 years, while Alaniz was acquitted. At some point “one of the conspirators,” according to Torbitt, gave “pertinent information” to “Bill Allcorn, special assistant Attorney General of Texas” who helped work on the Floyd case. What this accomplice allegedly revealed was the existence of the 25 to 30 professional assassins kept in Mexico, with the contact man for employing them being John Howard Bowen, reachable through the owner of the St. Anthony Hotel in Laredo.

Info from Pt VIII CE 2121:

Rojas wrote to RFK at the end of Dec, 63. The letter indicated that he would only give the names of those he believed involved in the assassination to RFK, hinting that "officials of the United States may be involved and affected by it."

He goes on to say that he never thought that the plan (involving Oswald and someone he names only as "Albert") would be carried out.

Needless to say, the FBI were on the job! They investigated and interviewed Rojas and followed up all leads generated. Came up with zip.

Rojas was reinterviewed over the period January 22-23, 1964, this time furnishing background info on himself, as well as further details of his involvement with Oswald, "Albert" and a Cuban he had previously mentioned as making the initial approach to him.

The next part of the document lists all the discrepencies in Rojas' story.

From the beginning, Rojas claimed to have all the real names of the people involved in his diary which he'd left with a cop for safe keeping. This person did indeed have Rojas' diary, but it contained no such list (it was left unexplained as to why the diary was left in the safe-keeping of a cop if it was empty of any "dangerous" information. Seems Rojas' had forgotten he'd torn that list out of the diary and hidden it in the sole of his shoe! He produced this list for the FBI on Feb 5. The unidentified Cuban was listed as "Toni Ferria", "Albert" was listed as "Advvin Walker", while Oswald was listed as "Lee Harvei Osvval".

The FBI was now all out to discredit Rojas. That discrediting came when they found out about his "involvement" in the Jake Floyd case.

Rojas wrote the Flloyd family in 1962 indicating he had details about a conspiracy by Cervantes and others to kill Flloyd.

Rojas was paid expenses to meet with investigators in that case. The FBI states that Rojas demanded money prior to the meeting. He was told monwy would only be forthcoming if he supplied "information of value". Floyd did indeed, pay him $40.00 on top expenses.

Rojas' story here was that he was running a bar where Cervantes was a customer, and that he (Cervantes) was hired by two Americans to kill Floydd. He named the two Americans and gave detailed descriptions. Unfortunately, the investigators could not find info about these to Gringos.

Little wonder really... Rojas said their names were "Norman Neocon" and "Louis Feano".

You have to ask yourself at this point... would/could Rojas' have possibly come up with those names himself -- which appears to have been the final verdict -- as part of a plan to milk as much money out of Flloyd as possibble?

I doubt that he could have. Could two well-educated Americans used those aliases with Rojas, knowing he would not understand the apparent joke? I think so...

Feano, btw, was a female who disguised herself as a male in order to become a physician in the 6th century. She studied under Pythagorus, and became expert in medicinal herbs, pharmacology and and therapy.

[Ron Ecker]

Greg,

Thanks, I hadn't seen that report. (It's not easy to browse through WC exhibits in pdf online. It still irks me that I could have bought all 26 volumes for 75 bucks!) I'll give it a close read as soon as I can.

"Neocon" was a word in the early 1960s?

Ron

[Greg Parker]

"Neocon" was a word in the early 1960s?

Must have been Ron. I do believe this was around the time they were emerging.

My point was that I don't believe Rojas was capable of coming up with those names. If he didn't make them up, then either someone helped him concoct the story, or the story is essentially true.

To take that a step further... if two people used those aliases in the Floydd case, then perhaps Albert used the alias Edwin Walker and the other person used the name Lee Harvey Oswald with him prior to the assassination. This would explain why the FBI came up empty when they checked for travel on those names.

One other thing about Osborne/Bowen. It IS possible that they were two separate people. Check the bus baggage list. Three pieces of luggage in total under "Bowen". Only two under "John H Bowen".

Is it possible Osborne used Bowen's ID in Mexico simply because he was not allowed back in the country after his little problem with the authorities over the sale of a car?

[Ron Ecker]

One other thing about Osborne/Bowen. It IS possible that they were two separate people.

Not likely. The fingerprint of the John Howard Bowen arrested in 1953 over a mattress fire matched the fingerprint of Osborne taken by the FBI in Alabama in 1964.

Is it possible Osborne used Bowen's ID in Mexico simply because he was not allowed back in the country after his little problem with the authorities over the sale of a car?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Bowen ID certainly came in handy after Osborne's 1958 deportation. But Osborne had been using the Bowen name as early as the 1940s, even earlier by his own account (though admittedly he'd be the last person to believe).

Ron

[Greg Parker]

One other thing about Osborne/Bowen. It IS possible that they were two separate people.

Not likely. The fingerprint of the John Howard Bowen arrested in 1953 over a mattress fire matched the fingerprint of Osborne taken by the FBI in Alabama in 1964.

Ron, I'm aware of the fingerprints. Since Osborne was using Bowen's name, it's not surprising the prints matched. I don't think that rules out Bowen being a real person.

Of course, the third peice of Bowen luggage on the list, which was NOT including as belonging to John H Bowen, could have been a clerical eror.

Baggage list:

10: [FNU] Bowen

15: [FNU] Bowen (believed identical with John H Bowen)

16: Second peice of luggage attributed to Bowen

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol24_0296b.htm

Is it possible Osborne used Bowen's ID in Mexico simply because he was not allowed back in the country after his little problem with the authorities over the sale of a car?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Bowen ID certainly came in handy after Osborne's 1958 deportation. But Osborne had been using the Bowen name as early as the 1940s, even earlier by his own account (though admittedly he'd be the last person to believe).

He also had a birth certificate in the name of Bowen, which if faked, was a good enough fake to fool authorities when produced.

Ron

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Ron Ecker]

Greg,

I don't rule out the possibility that there was a real John Howard Bowen. Perhaps there is some truth to one of Osborne's stories that he had an associate named Bowen who died and Osborne started using his name to continue receiving contributions in Bowen's name. (A problem with that is that American Express denied agreeing to this arrangement as Osborne claimed, but then AE could have been lying too.) In any case the real Bowen, if he existed, must have died early on (apparently with no one to grieve his demise), since at no time does anyone other than Osborne seem to turn up using the name. In the case of everyone that I recall who crossed paths with Bowen, it was always Osborne in reality. No friends or acquaintances seemed to have two people confused in terms of physical appearance.

I'm not sure the question of whether there were really two people can be resolved, but even if it could be I'm not sure that would help answer the question of what Osborne was up to, if anything, other than preaching and living off of gullible Christian ladies. But I'm glad you have raised the issue, as I'm going to review the case as time goes on with this in mind. For one thing I need to go back and look at the point you raise about there being an authentic-looking Bowen birth certificate. I'm hazy on that or didn't pay enough attention to it.

Ron

Edited June 26, 2005 by Ron Ecker

[Greg Parker]

Greg,

I don't rule out the possibility that there was a real John Howard Bowen. Perhaps there is some truth to one of Osborne's stories that he had an associate named Bowen who died and Osborne started using his name to continue receiving contributions in Bowen's name. (A problem with that is that American Express denied agreeing to this arrangement as Osborne claimed, but then AE could have been lying too.) In any case the real Bowen, if he existed, must have died early on (apparently with no one to grieve his demise), since at no time does anyone other than Osborne seem to turn up using the name. In the case of everyone that I recall who crossed paths with Bowen, it was always Osborne in reality. No friends or acquaintances seemed to have two people confused in terms of physical appearance.

I'm not sure the question of whether there were really two people can be resolved, but even if it could be I'm not sure that would help answer the question of what Osborne was up to, if anything, other than preaching and living off of gullible Christian ladies. But I'm glad you have raised the issue, as I'm going to review the case as time goes on with this in mind. For one thing I need to go back and look at the point you raise about there being an authentic-looking Bowen birth certificate. I'm hazy on that or didn't pay enough attention to it.

Ron

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ron. Agreed... it probably can't be resolved, and I don't want to deflect any further from the substance of your article.

The info regarding the Bowen BC is here:

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol24_0297a.htm

"John H Bowen...Mexican tourist card was issued to him at Nuevo Laredo, Mexico, on September 26, upon presentation of his Birth Certificate."