Carol Reid Posted June 25, 2005 Share Posted June 25, 2005 At the site referenced below, the city of Dallas has posted photocopies of various documents and other evidence related to the assassination. While browsing through these files, I came upon some information that I found interesting. It seems that in one box of the documents found in Ruth Paine's home during a search conducted by the DPD, a copy of a note issued by the US Dept. of State, and signed by LHO was found. This note, in essence, is Oswald's agreement to repay to the State Dept. the sum of $435.71, for "transportation." There is no date indicated on this note. In another inventory list, reference is made to a note (or promise to pay), signed by LHO and indicating "for repatriation." This note is dated 6.1.62, and was also found at Irving. In a list of the inventory found at Oswald's Beckley room, reference is made to a note issued by the State Dept. stamped PAID, and dated 3-9-63. I found this interesting for several reasons: Was the note in the amount of 435.71 for "transportation" the sum total that Oswald owed to the State Dept.? The 435.71 was obviously for airfare, but was he loaned additional money by the State Dept. "for repatriation," as another note found stipulates? Even if 435.71 was the total owed, I find it rather hard to believe that Oswald, who was either unemployed or working at minimum wage between June of 1962 and March of 1963, was presumably helping to support a wife and child, supporting himself at different locations, paying to have Hands Off Cuba documents printed, etc, would havr been able to repay this money within a nine month period. This would have meant he repaid the government at the rate of nearly fifty dollars per month during that timespan.. It seems to me that, in order to do this, he would have had to be receiving income from some other source. Was he being paid by another government agency during this time? Or was the State Dept. asked to forgive the loan by another agency? Does anyone know if records are available concerning the total amount of this loan and how it was repaid? Link to DPD inventory: City of Dallas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David G. Healy Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 fascanating subject, Carol - one I've wondered about but never looked into - other than NO debriefing upon his return to the continental US - I'll be interested in any followup... David Healy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanet Clark Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 (edited) fascanating subject, Carol - one I've wondered about but never looked into - other than NO debriefing upon his return to the continental US - I'll be interested in any followup...David Healy <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This stinks. A Marine with U-2 radar codes and Atsugi Air Base classification decided to go to Soviet Russia. He goes over, spends two years in the heart of Minsk industrial center, then COUNTER - DEFECTS back to the United States. He is never debriefed and never watched as a possible Soviet spy? This reeks of a counter intelligence program. Lee Harvey Oswald was a noisy self proclaimed Communist, but when he supposedly kills the President of the United States, he denies it until he dies. A communist radical militant would have claimed the "glory" .... An effective US security force would have monitored him and prevented him being at an open window over a Presidential motorcade. I believe Oswald was a Marine Intelligence / ONI asset, who was manipulated to go to Russia, controlled after he came back and used as a handy "burncard" when a patsy with COmmunist credentials was needed by the agencies. He was served up to public consumption with the backyard photos and the crime was "solved" Then he was murdered and thus became a "lost" assassin, in the jargon of the 1953 CIA assassination manual. Poor bastard, I feel sorry for him, his wife Marina and his girlfriend Judyth. He probably thought he was serving his country............. Edited June 26, 2005 by Shanet Clark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol Reid Posted June 26, 2005 Author Share Posted June 26, 2005 fascanating subject, Carol - one I've wondered about but never looked into - other than NO debriefing upon his return to the continental US - I'll be interested in any followup...David Healy <{POST_SNAPBACK}> David, Since my original post, I have been directed to THIS WEBSITE, where I found some additional info regarding Oswald's reentry from Russia. The info on this website is taken from the Warren Commission Report. Part of the loan info is quoted below: " After his reentry, Oswald repaid his loan without having to be reminded by the Department to do so. The early payments were very small because he first repaid the approximately $200 he had borrowed from his brother Robert to apply against the expenses of his travel from New York to Fort Worth, Tex. The schedule of payments is as follows: Aug 13, 1962 10.00 Sep. 5 1962 9.71 Oct. 10 1062 10.00 Nov. 19 1962 10.00 Dec. 11 1962 190.00 Jan. 8 1062 100.00 Jan 28 1962 106.00 Total: 435.71" Note the amount of the last 3 payments. I am assuming that the last payment was made in January of 1963, rather than 1962, and that this is a typo. I am going to do some more digging. It will be interesting to find out where he was working during the three months that these large payments were supposedly made. My husband and I were newly married and living on one minimum wage income (his) during 1963. Payments of this size would have been next to impossible for us at that time. This may be a trivial point, but it interests me, as I have always believed that Oswald was connected in some way to either the FBI or the CIA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Knight Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 You'll not get much help from Oswald's income-tax return...the entire form, with the exception of his name and address, was redacted when it was released. Not that a dead alleged assassin would be bothered with concerns about his privacy, in my opinion, but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stapleton Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 fascanating subject, Carol - one I've wondered about but never looked into - other than NO debriefing upon his return to the continental US - I'll be interested in any followup...David Healy <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This stinks. A Marine with U-2 radar codes and Atsugi Air Base classification decided to go to Soviet Russia. He goes over, spends two years in the heart of Minsk industrial center, then COUNTER - DEFECTS back to the United States. He is never debriefed and never watched as a possible Soviet spy? This reeks of a counter intelligence program. Lee Harvey Oswald was a noisy self proclaimed Communist, but when he supposedly kills the President of the United States, he denies it until he dies. A communist radical militant would have claimed the "glory" .... An effective US security force would have monitored him and prevented him being at an open window over a Presidential motorcade. I believe Oswald was a Marine Intelligence / ONI asset, who was manipulated to go to Russia, controlled after he came back and used as a handy "burncard" when a patsy with COmmunist credentials was needed by the agencies. He was served up to public consumption with the backyard photos and the crime was "solved" Then he was murdered and thus became a "lost" assassin, in the jargon of the 1953 CIA assassination manual. Poor bastard, I feel sorry for him, his wife Marina and his girlfriend Judyth. He probably thought he was serving his country............. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Shanet, I agree. LHO was fried without a moments hesitation, while thinking he was doing an important job. His family problems were not incriminating, they were irrelevent. Murdered, then thrown into the annals of history as an evil assassin. Shameful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David G. Healy Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 Carol Reid wrote: Since my original post, I have been directed to THIS WEBSITE, where I found some additional info regarding Oswald's reentry from Russia. The info on this website is taken from the Warren Commission Report. Part of the loan info is quoted below: " After his reentry, Oswald repaid his loan without having to be reminded by the Department to do so. The early payments were very small because he first repaid the approximately $200 he had borrowed from his brother Robert to apply against the expenses of his travel from New York to Fort Worth, Tex. The schedule of payments is as follows: Aug 13, 1962 10.00 Sep. 5 1962 9.71 Oct. 10 1062 10.00 Nov. 19 1962 10.00 Dec. 11 1962 190.00 Jan. 8 1062 100.00 Jan 28 1962 106.00 Total: 435.71" Note the amount of the last 3 payments. I am assuming that the last payment was made in January of 1963, rather than 1962, and that this is a typo. I am going to do some more digging. dgh01: 20 years ago a long standing investigator (whose no longer with us) told me, the only document(s) you need to make the WCReport look foolish, is: the Warren Commssion Report and the attendent volumes itself -- his original words were much more colorful than that -- Yes, typos abound everywhere -- Evidently ole Lee harvey Oswald came into a few bucks in Dec '62 -- considering I was in the US Army at the time, LHO was making some pretty good bucks for a repatrioted ex-patriot, Herbert 'I Led 3 Lives' Philbrick wannabe! One of the most extensive studies on this guy LHO was finished a year or so ago, the book is available for purchase at www.JFKResearch.com Rumor has it that a friend David Lifton, his book on Oswald nearly completed... It will be interesting to find out where he was working during the three months that these large payments were supposedly made. My husband and I were newly married and living on one minimum wage income (his) during 1963. Payments of this size would have been next to impossible for us at that time. This may be a trivial point, but it interests me, as I have always believed that Oswald was connected in some way to either the FBI or the CIA. dgh01: there are NO trivial points and your interest is indeed, well founded. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stapleton Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 fascanating subject, Carol - one I've wondered about but never looked into - other than NO debriefing upon his return to the continental US - I'll be interested in any followup...David Healy <{POST_SNAPBACK}> David, Since my original post, I have been directed to THIS WEBSITE, where I found some additional info regarding Oswald's reentry from Russia. The info on this website is taken from the Warren Commission Report. Part of the loan info is quoted below: " After his reentry, Oswald repaid his loan without having to be reminded by the Department to do so. The early payments were very small because he first repaid the approximately $200 he had borrowed from his brother Robert to apply against the expenses of his travel from New York to Fort Worth, Tex. The schedule of payments is as follows: Aug 13, 1962 10.00 Sep. 5 1962 9.71 Oct. 10 1062 10.00 Nov. 19 1962 10.00 Dec. 11 1962 190.00 Jan. 8 1062 100.00 Jan 28 1962 106.00 Total: 435.71" Note the amount of the last 3 payments. I am assuming that the last payment was made in January of 1963, rather than 1962, and that this is a typo. I am going to do some more digging. It will be interesting to find out where he was working during the three months that these large payments were supposedly made. My husband and I were newly married and living on one minimum wage income (his) during 1963. Payments of this size would have been next to impossible for us at that time. This may be a trivial point, but it interests me, as I have always believed that Oswald was connected in some way to either the FBI or the CIA. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Carol, I agree with David G--nice researching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Wagner Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Good work, Carol. What about the speculation that Oswald was part of a Fake Defector program, presumably run by ONI. This would explain his defection and subsequent counter-defection, his training in the Russian language while in the Marines, and perhaps would account for the source of the funds to pay back this debt. Perhaps they used this method specifically to create the very paper trail we are discussing, giving him a little cash at a time to pay the loan, but desiring the existence of such documentation to prove that Oswald had at one time defected (establishing him as a communist). Is there any evidence that a Fake Defector program existed? Or is this pure speculation? Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol Reid Posted June 28, 2005 Author Share Posted June 28, 2005 Just a sidenote RE Greg's comment about Oswald's learning the language while in the military: My nephew joined the Air Force straight out of high school. He is an exceptionally intelligent fellow, and he maintained a 4.0 GPA all through school. After enlistment and basic training, he was sent to the military's foreign language school at Monterey, CA, where he was taught to speak Russian fluently. Then he was shipped to an obscure AFB in Germany. He was told while in Monterey that, although he was AF, he would technically be working under the auspices of the State Dept. At that time, the cold war was on its last legs-as a matter of fact, he was in Berlin when part of the Wall came down, and he brought a piece of it home to me. I don't know what his security clearance level was, but his running joke was that when the family (his parents included) would ask about his work, he'd laugh and reply, "If I told you, I'd have to shoot you." Not long after the Wall came down, they began dismantling his base, and he was sent back stateside with an honorable discharge. He is now a detective with the local police department, having been promoted to the detective bureau after less than a year as a patrolman. Many people find the idea of Oswald being involved in government intelligence to be ludicrous. My contention is that his involvement is more likely than not-and not merely as an informant, but as an agent, albeit at the very bottom rung on the hierarchy ladder. In those days, the cold war was at full tilt, and a marine with a command of the Russian language would undoubtedly have been considered an asset. Recorded accounts of Oswald's behavior clearly demonstrate the fact that he was a secretive man. He often opted to live apart from his wife, and apparently neither she nor anyone else was privy to info concerning his finances. I do not find Oswald's failure to disclose his involvement to his family surprising, in light of my own nephew's behavior. To this day, my nephew has not been forthcoming with any information concerning his work in the AF, even though the cold war has been over for years. Even after his arrest, there is no indication that he attempted to explain his movements either before or after the shooting so as to try and clear himself. It occurs to me that he may have been deliberately on guard while being questioned, possibly awaiting some sort of instructions from somewhere that were never going to be given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Agbat Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 I think there is much to be learned from "following the money." It always tends to lead somewhere interesting, I have found... One thing that has always stuck with me, an impression that I have been unable to shake, is that LHO seemed to move around quite a bit -- nearly effortlessly -- in spite of a seeming lack of income. I'm not limiting this comment to simply domestic travel. He made it to Russia at the height of the cold war and back again. Airlines were almost certainly involved, and those were not the days of budget carriers and fare-wars. As the documents show, he effortlessly repaid a repatriation loan with a job that simply couldn't do so in the amount of time involved. Simply put, LHO was highly mobile. What is more, he was mobile without a visible means of support that would substantiate such. To borrow a colloquial phrase: 'dude was getting serious scratch from somewhere.' If we can hike the money trail, there is a good chance we'll find out more of the truth about LHO. Regards, Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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