Pure Speculation

[John Dolva]

I've noticed that many of my posts have an element of speculation, so to kind of get a grip on that side of things I thought it might be useful to have a farfetched, far out, brainstorming kind of topic with no real subject beyond open speculation. People can dip into and contribute or not as they wish, kind of like a global communal stick it note. Illogical arguments and theories welcome. Spelling and precision unimportant, impromptu snippets and incomplete thoughts will find a place here. blatant defamation etc unwelcome. all standard forum rules apply.?? OK?

I have on occasion wondered if the assassin might be a serial killer!!

could one by looking at similar crimes find him/her? i suppose a serial killer could also be the classic assassin type, say someone from timbuktu , oklahoma or greenland??? with no discernible connection. no one may know the name, someone was asked to find someone, the financeers in fact would not want to know who it was??

arethere any untranslated obscure memoirs hidden in an archive in portugal that could be useful??

[Guest Stephen Turner]

22 Nov 1963.

11 Sept 2001. Now eleven is EXACTLY half of Twenty two

CASTRO.

OSWALD. Six letters in each name, Six is NEARLY half of eleven.

JFK

LBJ

LHO Three letters in each name, Three is Exactly, Get the picture. SPOOKY MAN...

[John Dolva]

and if you take 11 from 11 you get 0 curiouser and curiouser...

[Guest Stephen Turner]

and if you take 11 from 11 you get 0 curiouser and curiouser...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

DIG THIS, Masonic ritual rises to the 33rd degree (Rose Croix) 3+3=6 Now as we have assertained SIX is nearly half of ELEVEN...Pass the tablets Doctor

[John Dolva]

ah yes but is six really six? using dialectics one could argue that sometimes it might be and sometimes not, most likely never, so in a non empirical world 33rd degree is in fact a fluffy blurred mass composed of a constantly shifting construct.

it is well known by 97.333 recurring JFK researchers that anything that is fluffy is necessarily in poor taste, though I suppose some fashion conscious parisienne may argue differently, therefore as one would tend to expectorate poorly flavoured objects obviously it was the pixxies in the bottom of Dealey plaza that did it!! case closed!!

on a less serious note : disinformation, bearing in mind Caesars statement 'divide and rule'. I wonder if there is a history of the conspiracy theories from the point of view of : as a theory and a perp rises to prominence at some point someone comes along and discredits it, fragmenting the community again, I wonder if there is any instances where a very credible position has been in prominance and a premise has come along and diverted attention and by the time that has been discredited successfully the community is already somewhere else and the original point is not picked up again.

back in the real world... correction (see above ^ : the pixxie! singular NOT plural!!

[John Dolva]

exhumation could put thing's to rest once and for all. a reading of various biographies of forensic anthropologists has led me to understand that a bare skeleton can be full of information. One can for example do very intense detailed xrays, very accurate reconstructions unhampered by viscera. I wonder what the current climate around agitating for an exhumation might be? Sensibilities are bound to be stirred. Even the analysis of pizzarros remains stirred emotions. Naturally a team of expert forensic anthropologists, dental forensics, anatomists etc would be needed. These professional teams have been assembled in the USA in recent times for such projects as the Tzar & co in Russia, Pizzarro in Lima, Mengele in Argentina etc. wonder when the time would be right?

[Guest Stephen Turner]

John.

As I remember this idea was mooted several years ago, only to be dismissed by the Kennedy family. I suspect that many members of the family have deep misgivings about the official "Story" but have decided to let sleeping dogs lay. The roots of this decision lie in the very nature of American Democracy/Exceptionalism and the belief that Americans represent a "Chosen People"Whilst we in old Europe have grown use to Assassinations of a deeply political nature,Many Americans feel that, because of their special circumstances,such things can not happen there.

To expose this thinking as a myth would cause a rupture in the fabric of American society that would change the nature of that society. As this Mythos serves the American ruling elite well(And the Kennedy's like it or not are part of that elite.)Anything that challenges "The American dream" must either be destroyed, or ignored. IMHO of course.

[Christopher T. George]

John.

As I remember this idea was mooted several years ago, only to be dismissed by the Kennedy family. I suspect that many members of the family have deep misgivings about the official "Story" but have decided to let sleeping dogs lay. The roots of this decision lie in the very nature of American Democracy/Exceptionalism and the belief that Americans represent a "Chosen People"Whilst we in old Europe have grown use to Assassinations of a deeply political nature,Many Americans feel that, because of their special circumstances,such things can not happen there.

To expose this thinking as a myth would cause a rupture in the fabric of American society that would change the nature of that society. As this Mythos serves the American ruling elite well(And the Kennedy's like it or not are part of that elite.)Anything that challenges "The American dream" must either be destroyed, or ignored. IMHO of course.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Steve

I love your "Chosen People" line:

Whilst we in old Europe have grown use to Assassinations of a deeply political nature, many Americans feel that, because of their special circumstances,such things can not happen there.

Steve, surely you must know that Assassination is as American as Apple Pie.

Consider the assassinations of Lincoln, Garfield, McKinley, and Kennedy, as well as the attempts on the lives of Roosevelt, Truman, Ford, and Reagan.

Meanwhile, Great Britain has only had one Prime Minister assassinated: Spencer Percival in 1812.

Now who's the "Chosen People"?

All my best

Chris

William McKinley, 25th president of the United States, was shot by anarchist Leon Czolgosz on April 6, 1901, and died eight days later.

[Guest Stephen Turner]

Hi Chris. Good point, but I am of course talking of America's mythological perception of itself as a choosen people, rather than any reality. It must be said that nearly all American members of this Forum do not suffer from this delusion.

Regards Steve..

[John Dolva]

John.

As I remember this idea was mooted several years ago, only to be dismissed by the Kennedy family. I suspect that many members of the family have deep misgivings about the official "Story" but have decided to let sleeping dogs lay. The roots of this decision lie in the very nature of American Democracy/Exceptionalism and the belief that Americans represent a "Chosen People"Whilst we in old Europe have grown use to Assassinations of a deeply political nature,Many Americans feel that, because of their special circumstances,such things can not happen there.

To expose this thinking as a myth would cause a rupture in the fabric of American society that would change the nature of that society. As this Mythos serves the American ruling elite well(And the Kennedy's like it or not are part of that elite.)Anything that challenges "The American dream" must either be destroyed, or ignored. IMHO of course.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A thought, while the idea of the rationale for the conspiracy is to protect guilty is persuasive, I sometimes speculate that perhaps there is an element of wanting to deal with the consequences by elements that are influenced by Kennedy's 'style', surely people of his persuasion stayed in places of influence and set about to avert say civil war that almost in some areas following MLK assassination looked about to erupt. Therefore i wonder if an argument could be made that in order to preserve the overall integrity of government issues were weighed and descicions made that involved a long delay in release of evidence so that eventually when the evidence is released, there might have been a hope of having righted wrongs?

patronising perhaps but also perhaps understandable.???

[John Dolva]

as read on another site while browsing one where someone jokingly found the word 'sex' subliminally inserted all over the zfilm "it's one big rosarch test ink blot'

[Guest Stephen Turner]

More thoughts on the power of mythology.

most countries develope a basic mythology, it is usually based on some glorious past event/events which are then used to justify contemporary actions. Whether these myths are of conquest or defeat matters little, its power lies in its ability to inform and unite the group in a shared goal. At its best the myth serves to unite people for good, at its worst are the Nazi gas chambers.

The American Mythos, it appears to me is more powerful than most, centred as it is on semi-legendary events of the recent past. Pilgrim Fathers, Revolution, westward expansion, the "Wild West"etc. These are powerful stories that bind the nation together, give it a shared purpose. Of course two great events of near genocidal proportions are ignored, or at best, relegated to minor status. I believe that part of America's current problems stems from its inability to come to terms with its past, and how the land of the free was actualy built.

When such all powerful mythology is used to its own advantage by a group like the Neo-Cons,who deal almost exclusively in a state of altered reality anyway,the results can be explosive, and lead to dangerous social divides." Your either with us, or with the terrorists" (GW Bush) If this myth exploitation is allowed to proceed unhindered, aided and abetted by media propoganda, the end results are always ruinous. a reality observed in Rome, Napoleonic France & Nazi Germany, to name but a few. It is this very unwillingness to face a reality that one finds uncomfortable because it contradicts the myth, that allows JFK's assassination to go unpunished to this day.

[John Dolva]

Rome at the height of it's civilisation seems to be a kind of blue print for an american myth. However I got a sense when wandering about New York a couple of years ago that the american myth is still in the making. It reminds me a bit of how here in australia, which is an even 'younger' country, (though I suspect the indiginous population would have something to say about that) a national identity is still being sought. A contrast to me is say the sense I had in London and Denmark (all of europe really) of the myth already in place. One thing I think of Kennedy is that he was very much a world statesman. He recognised the value of other countries differences it seems. At home he appears to have to deal with on the one hand a global consciousness and on the other closed communities such as that of Dallas. In a way I see him being ground between two rocks, and in a way his assassination inevitable.

separate : Wikipedia : Occam's Razor is known by several different names including the Principle of Parsimony, the Principle of Simplicity, and the Principle of Economy. The reason for these alternate names can be explained by the association of simplicity and parsimony with Occam's Razor. Prior to the 20th century it was believed that the metaphysical justification for Occam's Razor was simplicity. It was thought that nature was in some sense simple and that our theories about nature should reflect that simplicity. With such a metaphysical justification came the implication that Occam's Razor is a metaphysical principle. From the beginning of the 20th century, these views fell out of favor as scientists presented an increasingly complex world view. In response, philosophers turned away from metaphysical justifications for Occam's Razor to epistemological ones including inductive, pragmatic, likelihood and probabilistic justifications, which is where things stand today. Thus, Occam's Razor is currently conceived of as a methodological principle.

Edited July 6, 2005 by John Dolva

[Mark Knight]

As an American who was educated in the '60's and '70's in the public school system [and one who attempts to continue his education by reading, both print and electronic media], I recall being taught the principle of "Manifest Destiny" in US History classes. Simply said, it was a policy of unfettered expansion of the American frontier based upon the premise that American domination of the continent was preordained, that it was America's destiny, that this land was meant to be ours for the taking.

In the 20th century, the geographical expansion of America effectively ended; but in the 1960's there arose another group who put forward yet another doctrine of "Manifest Destiny," this time focused upon America's domination of space exploration and travel as our inherited right. I believe that JFK tapped into this national claim of a "right" to dominate space as he aimed NASA toward the moon.

Now, no longer could it be said "the sky's the limit;" there WAS no limit to the worlds that "manifest destiny" would propel us toward. But fate had other ideas, and America's "manifest destiny" in the sky began to fade as more earthly problems took over the national consciousness. The Challenger disaster in 1986 brought home the perils of space flight, and the Columbia tragedy another 15 or so years hence brought the space program, effectively, to a halt.

Americans realized that the "manifest destiny" doctrine didn't work in space; then they began to question its application on good ol' Planet Earth. September 11, 2001 made many Americans question whether the heavenly protections and guidance they'd assumed for America was no longer in effect...and others questioned whether it ever was. For once, the American myth was exposed as such...and many weren't prepared to accept that. Particularly those who occupied offices in the Executive Branch of US government, some who don't yet understand that fundamentally good men CAN and DO make fundamentally BAD decisions that have fundamentally bad CONSEQUENCES with worldwide repercussions.

Edited July 7, 2005 by Mark Knight

[David G. Healy]

Mark wrote:

As an American who was educated in the '60's and '70's in the public school system [and one who attempts to continue his education by reading, both print and electronic media], I recall being taught the principle of "Manifest Destiny" in US History classes. Simply said, it was a policy of unfettered expansion of the American frontier based upon the premise that American domination of the continent was preordained, that it was America's destiny, that this land was meant to be ours for the taking.

In the 20th century, the geographical expansion of America effectively ended; but in the 1960's there arose another group who put forward yet another doctrine of "Manifest Destiny," this time focused upon America's domination of space exploration and travel as our inherited right. I believe that JFK tapped into this national claim of a "right" to dominate space as he aimed NASA toward the moon.

Now, no longer could it be said "the sky's the limit;" there WAS no limit to the worlds that "manifest destiny" would propel us toward. But fate had other ideas, and America's "manifest destiny" in the sky began to fade as more earthly problems took over thas national consciousness. The Challenger disaster in 1986 brought home the perils of space flight, and the Columbia tragedy another 15 or so years hence brought the space program, effectively, to a halt.

Americans realized that the "manifest destiny" doctrine didn't work in space; then they began to question its application on good ol' Planet Earth. September 11, 2001 made many Americans question whether the heavenly protections and guidance they'd assumed for America was no longer in effect...and others questioned whether it ever was. For once, the American myth was exposed as such...and many weren't prepared to accept that. Particularly those who occupied offices in the Executive Branch of US government, some who don't yet understand that fundamentally good men CAN and DO make fundamentally BAD decisions that have fundamentally bad CONSEQUENCES with worldwide repercussions.

______________________

4 simple paragraphs! EXCELLENT, Mark Knight...

David Healy