O.R.I.O.N.

[John Dolva]

I've named this topic ORION because it touches on a subject where a lot of smoke occurs.

In the JFK conspiracy context ORION has connotations of wierdness at best lunacy at worst. A search on the internet brings one quickly to the site that claims a cosmic connection with the orion constallation. To support this an obviously distorted map of Dealey Plaza is used. Enough to turn any rational researcher off. Right?

OK having been turned off one now has a ready made reaction should anyone start talking about ORION. Instant dismissal. Perhaps that is the purpose of some of the disinformation. Who would want to be associated or tainted with such stuff?

In fact it hides a sinister reality. ORION stands for a traditional term within white supremacy. Our Race Is Our Nation.

http://www.adl.org/hate_symbols/ORION.asp

"Symbol Type : Racist Acronym

Extremist Meaning or Representation "Our Race Is Our Nation" is a racist slogan that emphasizes that racial ties are paramount to all else. Within the United States, for example, a white supremacist might use it to suggest that he or she owes allegiance to his or her race, rather than to the United States itself. White supremacists in other countries may use it similarly. In an international context, it can be used to suggest that all white people, whether from Europe or the United States or elsewhere, are one "nation," opposed and superior to all other races.

Background/History The slogan "Our Race Is Our Nation" is used by a variety of groups. Christian Identity adherents like it because it is compatible with their belief that white people are descended from the ancient tribes of the Kingdom of Israel. There is even an Identity Ku Klan Klan group, based in Alabama, known as the "Orion Knights of the Ku Klux Klan." It is also used among neo-Nazis and racist skinheads. The Canadian white supremacist group Heritage Front adopted the slogan as its official motto"

Other symbology relevant to the assassination is for example the American Flag.

When Oswalds mental competence was being assessed, one yardstick used was an evaluation of his attitude towards saluting the flag when he was a boy. To me this is quite peculiar but I understand that in some countries Flags are almost like an identity. Feelings are aroused and presumably someone who doesn't publicly display such acts of worship is devoid of such feelings and therefore 'not one of the family'. The shock of seeing a trio of black athletes giving a power salute on the Olympic podium is perhaps fresh in some peoples mind? Cassius Clay throwing away his medals?

The secret societies like those of the White Supremacists also use flags, and other symbols, acronyms, graphics and numerals.

Anyway, perhaps, to consider the symbols that may be relevant to the assassination of Kennedy is not so crazy after all.

adl.com :

"Symbols are the most powerful communication tools that have ever existed. Because they have the ability to convey so much meaning, intent and significance in such a compact, immediately recognizable form, the effect that they have is tremendous. One need only reflect on the reverence or passion that symbols ranging from the American flag to the Star of David to the Christian cross to the Red Cross can evoke to be able to understand exactly how powerful a symbol can be.

Unfortunately, symbols can convey negative connotations as well as positive. Some symbols are meant to convey feelings of hate or anger, or meant to instill in those who see the symbols feelings of fear and insecurity. Hate symbols, for instance, can be found scrawled on the outside walls of synagogues, churches and schools; tattooed on the bodies of white supremacists; or displayed on jewelry or clothing. These symbols give extremists a sense of power and belonging, as well as a quick way of identifying others who share their beliefs. This database provides an overview of many such symbols frequently used by neo-Nazis, the Ku Klux Klan, racist skinheads, racist prison gangs and other hate or extremist groups or movements.

Users of this database should keep in mind, however, that few symbols ever represent just one idea or are used exclusively by one group. For example, the Confederate Flag is a symbol that is frequently used by white supremacists but which also has been used by people and groups that are not racist. To some it may signify pride in one's heritage but to others it suggests slavery or white supremacy. Similarly, other symbols in this database may be significant to groups or individuals who are not extreme or racist. The descriptions here point out significant multiple meanings but may not be able to relay every single possible meaning of a particular symbol. For this reason, all of the symbols depicted here must be evaluated in the context in which they are used.

About the Symbols

Neo-Nazis, racist skinheads, white supremacists and others in the hate movement use symbols like swastikas, "SS" thunderbolts, runes and group logos to intimidate individuals and communities. Hate symbols are more than just "signs" demonstrating racist, anti-Semitic and anti-Christian attitudes and beliefs -- these symbols are meant to instill a sense of fear and insecurity. One finds hate symbols scrawled on the outside walls of synagogues, churches and schools; depicted on fliers and literature distributed in communities; tattooed on the bodies of white supremacists, or proudly displayed as jewelry or on clothing. These symbols give haters a sense of power and belonging, and a quick way of identifying with others who share their ideology. They offer a visual vocabulary that is used by a variety of extremists including the Ku Klux Klan, the neo-Nazi National Alliance and such Identity groups as Aryan Nations and the Posse Comitatus.

The ADL database contains symbols used by neo-Nazis, the Ku Klux Klan, racist skinheads, established hate groups, white supremacists and racist prison gangs. Not surprisingly, there is some degree of overlap among symbols used by these various groups.

Identity groups believe that white Europeans, not Jews, are the real Biblical "Chosen People," that Jews are the children of Satan, that the white race is inherently superior to others and that Blacks and other non-whites are "mud people" without a soul."

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Number Symbol 311

Hate Group/Extremist Organization Ku Klux Klan (KKK)

Extremist Meaning or Representation KKK

Background/History The eleventh letter of the alphabet is the letter "K"; thus 3 times 11 equals "KKK," or Ku Klux Klan. 311 is sometimes used as a greeting to demonstrate membership in the KKK or simply sympathy with the Klan and its ideology.

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Number Symbol 336

Hate Group/Extremist Organization Ku Klux Klan (KKK)

Background/History Thirty-three is 3 times 11. Since the eleventh letter of the alphabet is K, three Ks signify KKK or Ku Klux Klan. The "6" signifies the sixth or current era of the Klan. 33/6 is also used as a greeting by Klan members.

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General Racist Symbol X

Also Known As Confederate Battle flag

Traditional Use/Origins Civil War/Old South

Hate Group/Extremist Organization White Supremacists

Extremist Meaning or Representation White Southern Pride

Background/History Although the flag is seen by some Southerners simply as a symbol of Southern pride, it is often used by racists to represent white domination of African-Americans. The flag remains a subject of controversy because some Southern states still fly the flag from public buildings or incorporate it into their state flag’s design. The flag is also used by racists as an alternative to the American flag, which they consider to be an emblem of what they describe as the Jewish-controlled government.

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General Racist Symbol

Also Known As "Odin’s Cross" +

Traditional Use/Origins The symbol for the Celts of ancient Ireland and Scotland; also used as a Christian symbol

Hate Group/Extremist Organization Neo-Nazis, White Supremacists

Extremist Meaning or Representation International White Pride

Background/History This is one of the most popular symbols for neo-Nazis and white supremacists. First popularized by the Ku Klux Klan, the symbol was later adopted by the National Front in England and other racists such as Don Black on his Web site, Stormfront, and the racist band Skrewdriver to represent international "white pride." It is also known as Odin’s Cross. It is important to note that the Celtic Cross is used widely today in many mainstream and cultural contexts. No one should assume that a Celtic Cross, divorced from other trappings of extremism, automatically denotes use as a hate symbol.

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Racist/Extremist Group

Symbol Description A cross in a circle with the "blood drop" in the center +

Hate Group/Extremist Organization Ku Klux Klan (KKK)

Background/History According to the Klan, the blood drop represents the blood shed by Jesus Christ as a sacrifice for the White Aryan Race. The KKK originated as a secret society organized in the South after the American Civil War to reassert white supremacy through terrorism and intimidation.

Disclaimer: Nazi Germany glorified an idealized "Aryan/Norse" heritage, consequently extremists have appropriated many symbols from pre-Christian Europe for their own uses. They give such symbols a racist significance, even though the symbols did not originally have such meaning and are often used by nonracists today, especially practitioners of modern pagan religions

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Neo-Nazi Symbol

General Racist Symbol Y l

Symbol Description Vertical line branching at top into three smaller lines

Also Known As Elhaz rune, Algis rune

Traditional Use/Origins Literally "elk," the elhaz rune in pre-Christian Europe had meanings related to stags or hunting, as well as honor, nobility, or protection.

Hate Group/Extremist Organization Neo-Nazis, Racist Skinheads

Extremist Meaning or Representation Often called the "life rune" (from the German lebenrune), it was the symbol of the SS's Lebensborn project (see below). To white supremacists, it signifies the future of the white race.

Background/History The ancient runic symbol was adopted in the 1930s by the SS's Lebensborn project, which encouraged SS troopers to have children out of wedlock with "Aryan" mothers and which kidnapped children of Aryan appearance from the countries of occupied Europe to raise as Germans. The neo-Nazi National Alliance adopted this symbol as part of their logo.

Disclaimer: Nazi Germany glorified an idealized "Aryan/Norse" heritage, consequently extremists have appropriated many symbols from pre-Christian Europe for their own uses. They give such symbols a racist significance, even though the symbols did not originally have such meaning and are often used by nonracists today, especially practitioners of modern pagan religions

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Symbol Type Neo-Nazi Symbol

Racist Symbol

Symbol Description Upward pointing arrow I ^

Also Known As Teiwaz, tiewaz

Traditional Use/Origins The Tyr rune, named after the Norse god Tyr, was the name of an ancient runic symbol. Tyr was a god of warfare and battle.

Hate Group/Extremist Organization Neo-Nazis, Racist Skinheads

Background/History The Tyr rune was appropriated by the Nazi Party in Germany and used as a symbol for the leadership schools (Reichsführerschulen) of Hitler's brownshirts, the Sturmabteilung. Since then, neo-Nazis and white supremacists have continued to use the Tyr rune. Along with the Life rune, it is one of the more common runic symbols appropriated by white supremacists. Nonracist pagans may also use this symbol, so it should be judged only in context.

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Edited September 10, 2005 by John Dolva

[John Dolva]

As far as Dealay Plaza goes on the 11/22/63, 12.30 pm, those who haven't considered it before (like myself) might be startled to find some disturbing 'clues' to the identity of the killers. Perhaps not such a crazy idea when one considers the scenario of (as outlined elsewhere): Texas as the place of the last battle (which the REBELS won, and amongst them there are those who have never considered the war over) of the Civil War, Dallas as the heart of Texas, and in Dallas, Dealey Plaza : the heart of Dallas.

The question "Why Dealey Plaza?", with this in mind, plus the explanation of the above symbology, plus a realisation of how important these symbols were to send messages, could perhaps be extended to "Why 12.30?"... a conscious regulating of speed? and "Why 11 November?". Insistence on three shots, three bullets neatly in a row : III : II_ I_I _II : KKK? 311

Mamas and the Papas :

"I used to live in New York City,everything there was dark and dirty. Outside my window was a steeple with a clock that always said twelve-thirty.

Young girls are coming to the canyon,

and in the mornings I can see them walking.

I can no longer keep my blinds drawn,

and I can't keep myself from talking.

At first so strange to feel so friendly---

To say good morning and really mean it---

To feel these changes happening in me,

But not to notice till I feel it.

Young girls are coming to the canyon,

and in the mornings I can see them walking.

I can no longer keep my blinds drawn,

And I can't keep myself from talking.

Cloudy waters cast no reflection, images of beauty lie there stagnant. Vibrations bounce in no direction, and lie there shattered into fragments.

Young girls are coming to the canyon,

(Young girls are in the canyon)

And in the mornings I can see them walking.

(In the mornings I can see them walking)

I can no longer keep my blinds drawn,

(Can no longer keep my blinds drawn)

And I can't keep myself from talking..."

I have a friend in the Blue Mountains who has a clock on the wall of his lounge room that always says 12.30. He never dusts it. Its old, and cob webs glue it to the wall.

I think that if the motorcade hadn't reached Dealey Plaza by 12.30 (12.33?) there would have been fireworks set off to mark 12.30 or possibly 12.33.

11/22, 12.33 11 22 33 KKK.

To live and work in Dallas in the 40's, 50's, and 60's with the type of organisations around at that time, the similarity of the configuration of Main Street and Dealey Plaza and the Nazi Lebenrune from the 30's would not have gone unnnoticed. Particularly by those who had fought in Europe in the second world war.

Similarly, the is the Tyr rune, (arrow) used by Hitlers Sturmabteilung, since then adopted by White Supremacists. Tyr being the Norse god of war and battle.

The similarity between the Celtic cross so prominently used by the KKK and other White Supremacy groupings and the sight through a scope is obvious. In the middle of the KKK cross there is also traditionally a graphic of a drop of blood.

(an explanation for those unfamiliar with the images : Kennedy was shot around 12.30 in front of the Texas School Book Depository, where on the roof was a large sign showing the time as one approached "the gateway to Dallas', the triple underpass, and on into Dealey Plaza. Dealey plaza was built in the 1930's. This place was the site of the first settlement in Dallas. the first building and later all the important buildings stood here. Disastrous floods that cut Dallas in half led to the construction of what is essentially a series of directional structures and waterways bridged by a sturdy bridge to maintain transport links should floods come again. Entering the Plaza one enters on a set of roads that fan out into Dallas. Leaving Dallas one is funneled down into the underpass. Greeting Kennedy entering Dallas was the Battle Flag at Lovefield airport. Farewelling Kennedy leaving Dallas at Dealey Plaza was the sniper.)

or...just another set of coincidences? BTW I suspect that hose who read this lightly, take time to re-read and go to the site mentioned to read about hate symbols. It is a subject taken quite seriously by rational people. The interpretations here are mine, and I have no doubt that others can be made. In a world where toast with pics of virgin mary gets attention, it's difficult to have a serious discussion around such a subject. This is an attempt by me to do so.

Edited September 11, 2005 by John Dolva

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Symbolism is great John, however;

JFK was shot in Dallas because:

1. To have shot him in New Orlean (had he come there) would have immediately pointed the finger at the "Southern Conspiracy".

2. This was an area in which LHO could maneuver and operate as this (Ft. Worth & Dallas) were his "Second Home".

3. There were close family and business connections between those of New Orleans and Dallas, which could be called upon for "favors" in arrangement of this plan.

4. Not to mention the common "Confederate" heritage.

5. And lastly, anyone with any sense at all knows that one shout not "S**t in their own backyard".

Tom

P.S. Not to mention the already stirred pot of "right wing" elements.

[John Dolva]

Symbolism is great John, however;

JFK was shot in Dallas because:

1. To have shot him in New Orlean (had he come there) would have immediately pointed the finger at the "Southern Conspiracy".

2.  This was an area in which LHO could maneuver and operate as this (Ft. Worth & Dallas) were his "Second Home".

3.  There were close family and business connections between those of New Orleans and Dallas, which could be called upon for "favors" in arrangement of this plan.

4.  Not to mention the common "Confederate" heritage.

5.  And lastly, anyone with any sense at all knows that one should not "S**t in their own backyard".

Tom

P.S. Not to mention the already stirred pot of "right wing" elements.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tom, Yes.

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Just to take the symbology issue a little further:

to elaborate on one aspect of the symbolism and to indicate how it may have been an element of deception. Note : I recognise this thread may belong in 'pure speculation' , but the simplicity of it lends it a certain credibility as per occams razor.

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Number Symbol : 336

Traditional Use/Origins : Numbers

Hate Group/Extremist Organization : Ku Klux Klan (KKK)

Background/History : Thirty-three is 3 times 11. Since the eleventh letter of the alphabet is K, three Ks signify KKK or Ku Klux Klan. The "6" signifies the sixth or current era of the Klan. 33/6 is also used as a greeting by Klan members.

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I theorise that:

Given that in 2005 we are in the 6th era of the Klan,

1. The first was at its founding until 'disbanded'

2. from disbanded till 1915 when "Birth of a Nation" was shown in the White House

3. resurgence in 1915 till 1930 when the leader was convicted of rape and murder.

4. 1930 till the resurgence at the birth of the modern civil right movement.

5. the civil rights era.

6. till today

So, the greeting in 1963 would have been 33/5.

5 means 'I have nothing to say'

33 is 3 times 11, 11 being the letter K.

11.22 at 12.30 : 1/2/3/0 : 11/22/33/5 : assassination of Kennedy. Klansmen, keep your mouths shut.

Or :

Kennedy was killed on the 11th of November at 12.30 by the KKK.

Is it possible that this approach can pinpoint the first 'shot' as happening at 12.35? Could that be why it missed? Maybe for the first one it was more important that it happened at 12.35 than that it actually hit Kennedy. Maybe the report of this bullet streiking the road is correct and it struck the road because it was aimed at the road?

Also one mustn't forget that this may be just another layer in the 'orchid camouflage' alluded to by Angleton. ie. anyone who chooses to wander down this particular road will find this. While it may actually point to a set of individuals who organised the shooting, they themselves may have been manipulated by another group entirely. These Lumpen elements are well known to be vulnerable to manipulation through their own needs, that often involve base forms of greed, or they may be 'purists', who are on some kind of ideological mission.

Groups that were/are into that kind of behind the scene manipulations could be these that Tom are indicating. Infiltration and Control of the vulnerable groupings went on/goes on all the time.

Edited September 11, 2005 by John Dolva

[John Dolva]

Because some of the suggested conspirators had ties to Walker I have looked at the types of symbols used by the Nazi's.

The Lebenrune described above that is duplicated in the converging streets of Dealey Plaza, when turned upside down is used to denote date of death, or death.

The SS Totenkopf units (deaths head) were issued with a ring that combined SS with the Tyr or war rune and the death rune.

Now looking at the symbology it is even more chilling. As Kennedy was approaching Dealey Plaza it's as if he was entering a stylized version of this emblem, with his own SS in tow. Note how the right wing branch (elm street) of the upside down Lebenrune takes precedence over the 'lesser' two (main and commerce)

Totenkopfring

[Tim Gratz]

John wrote:

Is it possible that this approach can pinpoint the first 'shot' as happening at 12.35? Could that be why it missed? Maybe for the first one it was more important that it happened at 12.35 than that it actually hit Kennedy. Maybe the report of this bullet streiking [sic] the road is correct and it struck the road because it was aimed at the road?

John, since the motorcade was late to Dealey plaza (if I recall correctly, because JFK slowed it to shake hands with bystanders) the conspirators could not have planned the first shot for 12:35 p.m. Moreover, it was 1:35 p.m. in DC at the time the shots rang out.

[Thomas H. Purvis]

John wrote:

Is it possible that this approach can pinpoint the first 'shot' as happening at 12.35? Could that be why it missed? Maybe for the first one it was more important that it happened at 12.35 than that it actually hit Kennedy. Maybe the report of this bullet streiking [sic] the road is correct and it struck the road because it was aimed at the road?

John, since the motorcade was late to Dealey plaza (if I recall correctly, because JFK slowed it to shake hands with bystanders) the conspirators could not have planned the first shot for 12:35 p.m.  Moreover, it was 1:35 p.m. in DC at the time the shots rang out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1. Since the first shot did not miss, there would be little served to follow this line.

2. The "sparks" created by a lead core/copper-jacketed bullet striking anything, is pure myth.

[John Dolva]

Tom, Tim, you are referring to the more speculative aspects. I know there are different testimonies here. Tim, can you outline why you mention the time in washington?

________________________________________________________________

I have tried to keep this topic simple and will now summarise and condense with one little speculative addition.

The similarity and possible significance of the combined Totenkopf rune ring insignia and the motorcade route along the roads of dealey Plaza is startling. It would be even more so if one could confirm that this is something that Gen Walker was aware of.

The progression from 12.30 11/22 to 1 2 3 0 11 22 33 00 to date time executioner as KKK is simple and direct.

_________________________________________________________________

The similarity of odins cross or the sun cross or the celtic scross or its KKK manifestation and the sight of a scope is probably spurious but interesting.

there is another significant sign. within white supremacy there is an emblem that also has an old Nazi tie. The fist salute.

For a white prisoner this is a sign to the rest of the prison population that 'I am a white supremacist', when I drop the soap, keep off. This is clouded by the fact that it is also used as defiance by freedom fighters, however, here is a guy, as far as he knew, on his way to prison. Why put himself in danger by saying with this act 'I am a leftist'?

Opportunist or Right winger or Left winger?

edit:: to finish off here is a pictogram summary. (the picture of bull connor warning negroes to go away is to counterpoint Kennedy's intentions.)

Edited September 16, 2005 by John Dolva