Allegations of Homosexuality & JFK Assn

[Lee Forman]

In some of these cases, the word I used should have been 'bi-sexual.'

Note: In light of our 'Politically Correct' environment here in the US, I want to make clear that none of these allegations are my own - they are the result of references made by others. I have no way of knowing if they are true or not - I am only remarking upon the pattern. Garrison in his 'Homosexual Thrill Killing' theory quantified only 6 individuals.

I was a bit puzzled when I put this together [i intentionally left a name or 2 off the list], and completely baffled at the same time. I sent an e-mail to Gerry Patrick Hemming - enquiring if this was associated in some way with a 'rite of passage.' He gave me the okay to post his reply.

Unless there has been some new ground broken, I think we are still fairly in the dark as relates to QK/ENCHANT?

Per Garrison:

Jack Ruby an alleged homosexual. Nicknamed 'Pinkie.'

Clay Shaw, Clay Bertrand an alleged homosexual.

David Ferrie an alleged homosexual.

Mary Sherman an alleged homosexual.

Donald P. Norton - allegedly admitted homosexuality to Garrison.

Anonymous letter to Garrison:

JD Tippit - alleged Tippit was homosexual

Torbitt:

Breck Wall - alleged as homosexual

Joe Peterson - alleged as homosexual

Per Billings:

As per the references to the Winterland Skating Rink, owner Keith Richards managed a 'Follies' club of female impersonators - one of these may have been Breck Wall.

"Mrs. Rolland [said] there were three female impersonators whose names she would try to get from hairdresser, Vincent Mazzola, who worked at Joskes . . . she says the impersonators worked all over country, talked a lot about new Orleans . . . in fact, she thinks, two of them came from N.O . . . .she remembered Brett [sic] wall, because 'Bottoms Up' once played at Houston-Continental (check a Mr. Schaefer) . . . (Note: Sciambra relates 'Bottoms Up' playing at Adolphus in Dallas at time of assassination . . . )" (Ibid.)

Soviet Intelligence Report on Assassination of President Kennedy:

Lee Harvey Oswald - a 'known' homosexual.

Quote from report which I couldn't locate:

In addition, Headquarters asked the Mexico City Station to bear in mind while interviewing Ruyle's source that Lee Harvey Oswald is a homosexual.12

Garrison also believed that Lee Harvey Oswald was a homosexual.

Per Jack Frazier:

WILLIAM [CUTHBERT] BRADY - alleged homosexual.

Per Mae Brussel:

John Crawford - alleged homosexual.

Dean Andrews:

Oswald [or one of his impersonators] was accompanied by gay Mexican kids.

Mr. ANDREWS. I don't recall the dates, but briefly, it is this: Oswald came in the office accompanied by some gay kids. They were Mexicanos.

The Adamson Report:

One reference which contained info about George de Mohrenschildt.

Photograph on cover of de Mohrenschildt and Dr. Wynne Sharples, de M's third wife, supplied by Dimitri Von Mohrenschildt. Today Dr. Sharples is living on a multi-million dollar estate in Palm Beach as Mrs. Robert Ballinger and refuses to speak about de Mohrenschildt just as she did when the FBI contacted her in 1963/64. De Mohrenschildt's third wife also threaten to bring up de Mohrenschildt's homosexual behavior to the FBI.

Others:

Edwin Walker - alleged homosexual.

Layton Martens - alleged homosexual.

Herbert Hoover - alleged homosexual.

Clyde Tolson - alleged homosexual.

Clyde Johnson - alleged homosexual

Thomas Beckham - alleged homosexual.

Louis Mortiner Bloomfield - alleged homosexual.

James Kronthal - alleged homosexual.

Billy James Hargis - alleged homosexual.

James Jesus Angleton - alleged homosexual.

...

Lee:

You got it right on the money. Gaeton Fonzi brought ALL of these [and more] during a break in multiple interviews with Twyman in Miami. He asked why I wasn't mentioning this to Twyman, and I answered that: "...This old man has enough on his plate right now trying to grasp what I am telling him over these last weeks....and I don't know enough about his background to be sure that he would not be offended by my bringing this up..."

Robert Emmett Johnson, Dennis Harber, et al., were of the same "bisexual" persuasion. I had been turned off a bit on my second or third meeting with Angleton by his "swishy" behavior after some wine. He did mention during later months that "Dame" Hoover was, as he termed it, a "Swish".

This was the trend for QK/ENCHANT agents, the threat of exposure during those times was "Draconian" to say the least, especially where these agents were VIP business, military, and political types !!

As you know, QK/ENCHANT agents were those who originally were interviewed by the old "00" Domestic Contact Service, and were later given POAs to be "dispatched" abroad to further increase their knowledge base of targeted persons or entities, and then switched to the control of Angleton's CI operators.

To me it seemed an extremely logical operation, since the MOSSAD and Brits had discovered that this "underground community" was a rich resource, and reached up into the presidential palaces worldwide. Very valuable assets, especially where they were doubled by Western CI divisions amongst our close allies.

One very distasteful aspect [to me !!] was the use of cadets/midshipmen at the academies, who were guaranteed a lengthy career in the military if they cooperated. I got chewed out severely by a CIA [uSAF Colonel] recruiter at the U.S. Naval Academy Prep School [NTTC Bainbridge, MD.] when I wrote up a Marine Corporal for fondling a fellow Marine [in bed] in the barracks. This guy went on to ROTC, switched to the Navy, and became a 25 year Nuclear Submarine officer, retiring as an Admiral.

"Jerry" Boorda was a witness to the incident, as he was battalion executive officer under my command. I really doubt that little Jerry [then Chief of Naval Ops, and short in stature] really killed himself over Hackworth's threats of "USN Combat Ribbon" wear -- more likely he became a threat to somebody on our side, or the opposition !!

Cheers,

Gerry

[Lee Forman]

Cross reference - Omaha, Nebraska.

[John Simkin]

It has been estimated that around 20% of males have had at least one homosexual experience. Other research suggests that as many as 10% are involved in regular sexual activity. If that is the case, the number of people involved in the JFK case being homosexuals does not seem particularly high.

It also has to be remembered that the leaking information about people being “homosexual” is often used by the security services against people who are causing them problems. For example, the FBI did it against Martin Luther King and the CIA did it against Joseph McCarthy. As a result, McCarthy married his secretary and adopted a child.

Although probably both gay, Hoover and McCarthy both leaked stories about the homosexual behaviour of their enemies. I think this is an example of self-loathing. Religious people with homosexual tendencies often suffer from this problem.

Stories were leaked during the Jim Garrison investigation that he was a paedophile. This is of course the worse thing that anyone could be called. It just shows that he must have been getting very close to the truth.

[Lee Forman]

It has been estimated that around 20% of males have had at least one homosexual experience. Other research suggests that as many as 10% are involved in regular sexual activity. If that is the case, the number of people involved in the JFK case being homosexuals does not seem particularly high.

It also has to be remembered that the leaking information about people being “homosexual” is often used by the security services against people who are causing them problems. For example, the FBI did it against Martin Luther King and the CIA did it against Joseph McCarthy. As a result, McCarthy married his secretary and adopted a child.

Although probably both gay, Hoover and McCarthy both leaked stories about the homosexual behaviour of their enemies. I think this is an example of self-loathing. Religious people with homosexual tendencies often suffer from this problem.

Stories were leaked during the Jim Garrison investigation that he was a paedophile. This is of course the worse thing that anyone could be called. It just shows that he must have been getting very close to the truth.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Let me keep adding to the list until I get the percentage to look more like it has something to do with an underground movement - which was in some way employed by the CIA because of their orientation and connections. QK/ENCHANT is still something we know very little about - perhaps that is the key.

It's also interesting to note how Ferrie apologists use his 'Morals Charge' as evidence for the time frame at which Cubans [Arcacha Smith] sought to distance themselves from Ferrie. Ferrie said he was involved in 'Operation Mosquito' [for which I can find nothing] - it's an odd coincidence that this cable came from JMWAVE on 11/21/63.

AGENCY : CIA

RECORD NUMBER : 104-10075-10122

RECORDS SERIES : JFK

AGENCY FILE NUMBER : 80T01357A

DOCUMENT INFORMATION

ORIGINATOR : CIA

FROM : JMWAVE

TO : DIRECTOR

TITLE : JMWAVE CABLE REPLYING THAT LAST BROADCAST WAS

UNDERSTOOD.

DATE : 11/21/1963

PAGES : 1

DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT

SUBJECTS : JMWAVE CABLE; MOSQUITO; BROADCAST

CLASSIFICATION : SECRET

RESTRICTIONS : OPEN IN FULL

CURRENT STATUS : OPEN

DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 07/10/1995

COMMENTS : JFK17:F2 1995.07.10.18:30:08:190028:

Ferrie needs to go down.

- lee

[Robert Howard]

It has been estimated that around 20% of males have had at least one homosexual experience. Other research suggests that as many as 10% are involved in regular sexual activity. If that is the case, the number of people involved in the JFK case being homosexuals does not seem particularly high.

It also has to be remembered that the leaking information about people being “homosexual” is often used by the security services against people who are causing them problems. For example, the FBI did it against Martin Luther King and the CIA did it against Joseph McCarthy. As a result, McCarthy married his secretary and adopted a child.

Although probably both gay, Hoover and McCarthy both leaked stories about the homosexual behaviour of their enemies. I think this is an example of self-loathing. Religious people with homosexual tendencies often suffer from this problem.

Stories were leaked during the Jim Garrison investigation that he was a paedophile. This is of course the worse thing that anyone could be called. It just shows that he must have been getting very close to the truth.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Let me keep adding to the list until I get the percentage to look more like it has something to do with an underground movement - which was in some way employed by the CIA because of their orientation and connections. QK/ENCHANT is still something we know very little about - perhaps that is the key.

It's also interesting to note how Ferrie apologists use his 'Morals Charge' as evidence for the time frame at which Cubans [Arcacha Smith] sought to distance themselves from Ferrie. Ferrie said he was involved in 'Operation Mosquito' [for which I can find nothing] - it's an odd coincidence that this cable came from JMWAVE on 11/21/63.

AGENCY : CIA

RECORD NUMBER : 104-10075-10122

RECORDS SERIES : JFK

AGENCY FILE NUMBER : 80T01357A

DOCUMENT INFORMATION

ORIGINATOR : CIA

FROM : JMWAVE

TO : DIRECTOR

TITLE : JMWAVE CABLE REPLYING THAT LAST BROADCAST WAS

UNDERSTOOD.

DATE : 11/21/1963

PAGES : 1

DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT

SUBJECTS : JMWAVE CABLE; MOSQUITO; BROADCAST

CLASSIFICATION : SECRET

RESTRICTIONS : OPEN IN FULL

CURRENT STATUS : OPEN

DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 07/10/1995

COMMENTS : JFK17:F2 1995.07.10.18:30:08:190028:

Ferrie needs to go down.

- lee

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The homosexual affiliation of possible JFK conspirator's such as Shaw, Ferrie, Ruby, Oswald et cetera is very familiar to me but to be honest I never spent much time on it, but I did run across this today

I also found reference to an FBI document which deals with the subjects referenced, which follows.

Document # 124-10081-10142 Is a two page document from SAC, Houston to Director dated 9/25/64.

Re: Houston airtel to Bureau dated 9/24/64

Enclosed for Dallas are 25 copies each of the following items:

FD-302 re interview of Hazel Kingcaid, Operator of Desert Room Lounge, Houston, Texas;

FD-302 re interview of Peter Flores

FD-302 re interview of Paul Polo Guerrero;

FD-302 re interview of Martin Rizo, aka., Marty Rizo, Rachael Rizo;

Insert reporting miscellaneous investigation at Houston conducted 9/21, 22/64.

It is to be noted that HO [ ]-C (protect Identity), advised on 9/21/64 he never knew of Jack Ruby ever having been in the Desert Room Lounge nor had he ever heard of Ruby's having been there. He did not recall James J. Kneiding or Wayne Craven. He informed that Marty Ruiz, aka., Rachael Ruiz, is probably identical with Marty Rizo, aka Rachael Rizo. He further noted that "Paul" is probably identical with Paul Guerrero and that "Pete" is probably identical with Pete Flores. CI stated these three were frequently in the Desert Room Lounge together. On 9/22/64, HO [ ]-C furnished the whereabouts of Rizo and Flores in Houston, Texas.

On 9/21/64, PCI [ ] (Protect Identity), advised that Paul Guerrero resides at 310 Crosstimbers, Houston, Texas, and is a hairdresser at Gulfgate Beauty Salon, Houston.

[Christopher T. George]

Lee Forman wrote in part:

Let me keep adding to the list until I get the percentage to look more like it has something to do with an underground movement - which was in some way employed by the CIA because of their orientation and connections.  QK/ENCHANT is still something we know very little about - perhaps that is the key.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Lee

Well I really don't know about the validity of your approach because, as John points out, some ten percent of the population of males is going to be homosexual anyway. It is possible too that back then a number of open homosexuals, taking part in what would have been viewed as definitely deviant behavior, in contrast to today's more tolerant climate, may have gravitated toward underworld or shadow worlds in which operatives of the FBI or CIA functioned, so that may be another reason why there may not be much in your hypothesis.

All my best

Chris

[Lee Forman]

Awesome Robert! Thanks, I'd never seen that.

I'd also like to see the documents concerning August Meyer and his having seen Jack Ruby in Lincoln Park, Nebraska.

Thanks Chris.

I think it's important to continue pursuing some of these connections and see where they may lead?

- lee

Here's the anonymous letter to Garrison.

Mr. Garrison:

The following account may be fiction or it may be fact, I dare not commit myself by trying to substantiate it. The story was told to me in bits and pieces over a period of three months by a man, whom, I admit, has very little credibility to his character. The only reason I take the time to relate this to you, is because it is now past the realm of coincidence.

I fully realize the consequences of my actions, and so therefore I am prepared to co-operate with your office to the fullest extent, if you think the information I have warrants it.

Naturally, what I refer to is the Kennedy assassination.

It is hard to know where to begin, because the beginning was years before I had occasion to come upon this information. This is the story, the best I can relate to you:

It seems that back in 1960 and 1961 a group of men in this country began collecting money for a so-called invasion force into Cuba. This "army" was prepared to attack and capture Castro's Cuba in an invasion sponsored by the CIA. This is common knowledge, but what is not so well known, is WHY THE INVASION FAILED! As the information was given to me, a few of the leaders of the anti-Castro force in this country decided to flee the country with a good deal of the funds collected from the sympathizers of the Cuban refugees. These men whom I will name later, were arrested in the Miami airport with the money in their possession. The arresting officers, members of the CIA, confiscated the money; amounting to almost three million dollars. Then, as the story goes, President Kennedy, feeling that he had been duped, and would be left holding the bag, and ... realizing the international consequences of such an invasion, pulled the air support that had been orally committed. This, of course, led to the ill-fated Bay of Pigs invasion.

Since most of the 1400 or more invasion members were either killed or captured, the Cuban leaders in this country put most of the blame upon President Kennedy himself. I feel that I have evidence, though admittedly hearsay, that can prove this course of events.

I was told this story by a man who allegedly was a part of the Cuban revolutionary movement in this country. He claims to have been one of those arrested in Miami. Also, he claims to have been under FBI investigation at various times. I was in Omaha Nebraska at the time this was told to me, and at about the same time, so I'm sure you remember, your office was trying to get Perry Ruso's girl friend; Mrs McBlaine or something to that effect, down to New Orleans for questioning. It seems rather strange to me that she would wind up in Omaha since she really had no people there. Also, WHY did the gentleman whom I quote decide to come to Omaha? He had no job there, no relatives, and no real desire to find either. He moved to Omaha in March from Lincoln, Nebraska, where he had spent about two months or less with no visable means of support. He had just previously been in the State of Washington with an associate of his. The following are a few facts that the Omaha man told me, either directly or indirectly.

He told me about the pilot named Ferrie long before your office announced your interest in him. He described the man in great detail and claimed to know him personally. He also predicted his demise.

I overheard numerous telephone conversations (mostly with the man in Washington) in which he asked with great concern whether it was the FBI, the CIA, or who, that had been asking questions about them, and whether it was that they had something on him or on "one of the others."

He claimed to have either known or had met the Mr. Shaw you questioned.

He was originally from New Orleans, and claims to have worked on your staff at one time as an investigator.

He says he saw Oswald in New Orleans. Also a man who "looked like Ruby".

At one time, the Omaha man and the Washington man met in a hotel there and discussed plans to go to New Orleans to see a man called Sergio Arcacha. They went, but could not find him or another man they said was there. Three days later, the local Newspapers Announced that you, too had been looking for Mr. Arcacha for questioning and that he had told you he would talk to you, but not alone.

He described the assassination scene in great detail and told me some facts about it that I had definitely not heard before.

He claims that Oswald was a patsy, a setup, to take the blame for the whole thing. Also that OSWALD WAS A HOMOSEXUAL like Shaw, Ferrie, Tippett (Dallas police officer) and a score of others.

He told me about the motorcycle police officer who claimed to have seen a man with a rifle run from the grassy knowl in front of Kennedy. (incidentally, the Omaha man claims that this is where the fatal shot came from) The police officer mysteriously had a very serious accident right after the incident, and now is a near idiot.

He claimed to have met the late President on a number of occasions, and he talked about him with very little respect.

He claims that he left Louisiana upon the advice of the Governor.

The Omaha man and the Washington man were always in telephone contact with each other, no matter where they were. Once, the Washington man was in Washington DC for some reason or another and they conferred by telephone twice in that one day.

The following is a list of the names for the story above. If you feel that any of them fit into a proper place, or into your current investigation, Please contact me so we can further discuss that.

1. Sergio Arcacha

2. Lucian Rebel

3. Fred L. Crisman

4. Thomas E. Beckham

5. Martin Grassi

Mr Garrison, perhaps this is all hogwash. I really do not know. I can go into moe detail on all of this, and I have the addresses of those mentioned above. I would come to New Orleans myself, but I do not have the necessary finances. Also, I would have to be assured of protection, at least to the best of your ability.

I have arranged to be reached through the Democratic chairman here, Mr Thomas Reagan, 1C1 Woodbridge Way, Mesquite, Texas. His telephone number is: AT 5-4573

If the information I have related to you here is of any consequence, contact Mr. Reagan, and he will contact me.

Good luck in your investigation.

Mr. _______

[unquote]

[Stephen Roy]

Stories were leaked during the Jim Garrison investigation that he was a paedophile. This is of course the worse thing that anyone could be called. It just shows that he must have been getting very close to the truth.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

With all due respect, no, it doesn't.

I am very familiar with unpublished aspects of the allegations. The situation involved a prominent New Orleans family, who declined to press charges. Unless you believe the family fabricated the charges for some nefarious force, the charges had nothing to do with his probe.

The notion that persons having issues with Garrison means that Garrison was "getting close to the truth" is illogical. There can be other reasons why people felt that way. Garrison's case should be judged on its own merits.

[Tim Gratz]

Stephen's post is, of course, correct.

Garrison may or may not have been a pedophile. Whether or not he was is in no way related to the merits, or lack thereof, of his case against Shaw.

On the issue of homosexuality, however, I believe that one of Weberman's nodules reports an allegation that Rolando Cubela and Raul Castro were gay lovers. Does anyone have information that either of the two were homosexual or bisexual?

[Lee Forman]

It's not Garrison that I am looking at.

http://www.angelfire.com/or/mctrl/bastion.html

CIA: BASTION OF INTEGRITY

"Somehow we all end up paying for what we do."

-Bill Clinton

    On January 25, 1993, a lone assassin calmly walked among cars stopped at a stop light with an assault rifle and shot and killed two CIA personnel and wounded three others. The suspect, Mir Aimal Kansi, was placed on the FBI list of ten most wanted fugitives.

    The FBI, in concert with the CIA, conducted a multi-national manhunt to bring the criminal to justice. On Sunday, June 15, 1997, Mir Aimal Kansi was apprehended. As the CIA, in alliance with the military, applauded the courage and valor of the men who brought the lone killer to justice, they forgot the thousands upon thousands of injustices calmly done by this very same institution. President Clinton failed to remember as well when he remarked, "The United States will not relent in the pursuit of those who use violence against Americans to advance their goals no matter how long it takes, no matter where they hide." CNN 6/18/97.

    In 1947 the CIA operation sprang out of the Office of Strategic Services (OSS). It was supposed to be an intelligence gathering agency. It was also supposed to counteract the "plots" of "commie spies" who were undermining U.S. freedom. It was reported that the "commie spies" were going to use propaganda and brainwashing techniques to instill into American thinking "communist socialism" ideology. We were all sure that we needed to counteract their insidious plots. This was the "Cold War" between U.S. freedom and Russian "brainwashing".

    The CIA's statement of itself when it is examined in the light of its past performance seems somewhat enigmatic. When the statement is read with their special glasses on, they portray themselves to be a flag-waving righteous agency working for the benefit of the world and its people, but when we do a reality check, "found wanting" is a gross understatement. We should consider the CIA's statement of itself and then examine that statement in the light of its beginning and its history.

"Our Vision:

* To be the keystone of a U.S. Intelligence community that is pre-eminent in the world, known for both the high quality of our work and the excellence of our people.

Our Mission:

* Conducting counterintelligence activities, special activities, and other functions related to foreign intelligence and national security as directed by the president.

How We Do Our Work:

* Accepting accountability for our actions.

* Continuous improvement in all that we do."

    CIA Vision, Mission, and Values

    It may open one's eyes to look at some of this agency's "high quality" people known for "excellence" that have operated as directed by the president. Just a few statements made by those who should know what they are talking about begin to form the picture.

EXCELLENCE IN PERSONNEL

    William (Wild Bill) Donovan, Coordinator of Information by FDR, recruited a Cornell graduate from Boston named Stanley Lovell. Lovell described his work as follows: "What I have to do is to stimulate the Peck's Bad Boy beneath the surface of every American scientist and say to him, 'Throw all your normal law-abiding concepts out the window. Here's a chance to raise merry hell. Come help me raise it.'" Mind Manipulators, Scheflin and Opton. p.241.

    George Hunter White wrote of his CIA escapades . . . "I toiled wholeheartedly in the vineyards because it was fun, fun, fun" ...."Where else could a red-blooded American boy lie, kill, cheat, steal, rape and pillage with the sanction and blessing of the all-highest?" Captain George White in a letter to Dr. Sidney Gottlieb.

    A retired CIA agency caseworker with twenty years experience states of his work: "I never gave a thought to legality or morality. Frankly, I did what worked." With statements such as these we can clearly see that men with no scruples about human decency or morality would be "excellent" in their "special functions." It cannot be forgotten that these special operations are all carried out under the orders of the president.

    It would be well for us to consider some of the early "special operations" to see who the enemy actually was. Once more, just a few of many "special operations" of the CIA begins to draw back the mask on its activities.

HOW WE DO OUR WORK

    Operation Midnight Climax was a series of CIA run brothels in San Francisco and New York. The operation paid prostitutes $100 a day to lure men into the net. The prostitutes spiked their Johns' drinks with LSD. The CIA, plentifully supplied with martinis, watched the action from behind closed doors and one-way mirrors. Not only was this operation illegal as were many others, but the men who were "experimented" upon had no idea that they were the objects of experimentations. The prostitutes were guaranteed their safety should they get caught plying their trade while engaged in this "special operation".

    A secret laboratory was established and funded by CIA director, Allen Dulles in Montreal, Canada at McGill University in the Allen Memorial Institute headed by psychiatrist Dr. Ewen Cameron. For the next several years Dr. Ewen Cameron waged his private war in Canada. What is ironic about Dr. Cameron is that he served as a member of the Nuremberg tribunal who heard the cases against the Nazi doctors.

    When it was at its height in drug experiments, operation MK-ULTRA was formed. This was the brainchild of Richard Helms who later came to be a CIA director. It was designed to defeat the "enemy" in its brain- washing techniques. MK-ULTRA had another arm involved in Chemical and Biological Warfare (CBW) known as MK-DELTA. The "doctors" who participated in these experiments used some of the same techniques as the Nazi "doctors". Those doctors who were not indicted in the Nuremberg trials were imported from Germany under the program called "Operation Paperclip." The Nazi doctors were a valuable source of information to the CIA since many of the U.S. techniques mimicked what had already been done by the Nazis. German doctors were prosecuted at the Nuremberg trials for similar criminal acts that the U.S. experimenters carried out - and this was all done at the same time period as the American experiments were taking place. The real motto here should be: Let's pursue relentlessly the wicked Nazi doctors, Russian spies, and lone assassins and forget about our "special operations".

    Just as Nazi Germany had its "expendables" the CIA had theirs. Among the expendables the CIA had were, war prisoners, prostitutes, sexual psychopaths, prison inmates, certain war objectors, mentally retarded people, the elderly, terminally ill patients, schizophrenics, drug addicts, foreigners and, of course, any other man, woman or child who would fit the bill of need.

    Some of the CIA tortures carried out involved sensory deprivation, bodily function deprivation and sleep deprivation in rooms with no windows and continuous light. Other forms of mind control involved drug - induced comas, a wide variety of drugs, brain surgery (pre-frontal lobotomy), massive Page-Russell electric shocks, and electo-convulsive treatments combined with endless interrogations that were tape recorded. These interrogations were calculated to induce certain required answers from the "patient." These tape recorded sessions were then played back to the patient by means of a helmet outfitted with headphones. The helmet was worn for days with the tape playing endlessly. Many times a combination of these techniques was used until the broken patient would succumb to death. Many that entered the walls of the laboratories would never see family, friends or the light of day again. To say it was a living hellish nightmare for most, would put it mildly.

    These "special operations" were funded by the CIA through various intermediaries. Some had large financial interests in drug experiments. One such company was the Eli Lilly Company who told the CIA at its height of LSD manufacture that it could supply tons of the drug. George Bush, who was a CIA director and director of the President's U.S. Drug Task Force, was also director of Eli Lilly Company from 1977-1979. (The Big Book of Conspiracies, Doug Moench, p. 111).

    This does not take into account all the transactions of vice, drug dealing, torture, extortion, foreign country political interferences, assassination plots, murder implications, presidential assassination conspiracies, money laundering, propaganda, and covert operations domestic and abroad. While the agency says it has "cleaned up its act" and has released to the public scrutiny some of its past operations under the Freedom of Information Act, (FOIA) can we trust this powerful agency to tell us the truth?

JUST TRUST US

    Richard Helms as acting CIA director was asked about secret CIA operations. He justified the CIA in an address to the National Press Club when he said: "You've just got to trust us. We are honorable men." New York Review of Books 12/30/71 from Inside the Company, by Philip Agee. Trusting the CIA with a history as it has, would be tantamount to being locked in a den of roaring lions and trusting to get out unscathed.

    So now we come to the point about the CIA's position on taking responsibility. Do they really take responsibility for their actions or do we have a network of secrecy that extends from the president to CIA personnel?

    Here is what President Truman said of the CIA and its creation, "I think that it was a mistake. And if I'd known what was going to happen, I never would have done it.... But it got out of hand.... Now as nearly as I can make out, those fellows in the CIA don't just report on wars and the like, they go out and make their own and there is nobody to keep track of what they are up to. They spend billions of dollars on stirring up trouble so they will have something to report on. They've become . . . it's become a government of all its own and all secret. They just don't have to report to anybody. . . . The people have got a right to know what those birds are up to.

    . . . You've got to keep an eye on the military at all times, and it doesn't matter whether it's the birds in the Pentagon or the birds in the CIA." Merle Miller, Plain Speaking: an Oral Biography of Harry S. Truman, pp. 391-2. While Truman states this about the agency, he is not free of liability. He set it up.

    The agency has an understanding among its members called plausible deniability. Plausible deniability simply means your subordinates understand what to do without written authorization or verbal communication taking place. Therefore, there is no paper trail or even a verbal communication taking place that can be traced or verified. After all, what would it do to "national security" for the world to know that the president was directing "special operations" for fun and profit?

    What is the real mission of this agency who does not need to answer to the public? Once the records are unveiled under the FOIA , why are the names of the key players always edited out? Why has the president issued a specific Executive Order (EO #12958) to the intent that no names are to be revealed? Why is the CIA, the president and the military always so concerned about "national security?" What are they afraid of revealing?

    That the "Cold War" was invented just so the CIA could carry out its own mind control operations with the blessing of the American public is very likely. In political trials the CIA seized the convenient opportunities to justify their own course of actions. "That the CIA was able to take an old form of torture, dress it up with a lurid name, and convince the public that a new technique for mind subversion was being practiced by Communist nations, is a propaganda coup of stunning proportions." ..." The Soviet, Chinese and Korean brainwashing techniques were fully known to U.S. intelligence services. There was absolutely no basis, in fact, to allege that the communists had started brain warfare. It is not entirely impossible that the brainwashing scare was created by the CIA because it wanted to do mind control research and considered that the safest way to get authorization was to allege that the Soviets had done it first." Mind Manipulators, Scheflin and Opton p. 225. " According to a CIA document dated January 14, 1953, 'Apparently their (Russian) major emphasis is on the development of specially trained teams for obtaining information without the use of narcotics, hypnosis, or special mechanical devices.' A memo issued the next day by the Ad Hoc Medical Study Group admitted that 'the present state of knowledge indicates little, if any, threat to National Security through 'special interrogation' techniques or agents.'" Acid Dreams, Lee and Shlain p. 17.

OUR MISSION

    What we really have is a secret all-out war of the government against its own citizens carried out at the citizens expense. The U.S. paid the CIA to fight against itself not only with tax dollars and loss of freedom, but with severe body and mind damage. Many paid with their lives. There are several cases that have come to court where victims and families are suing for over a million dollars each and we may consider who pays for that? Are the perpetrators sued? Do the responsible governmental agencies step forward and take accountability? No! Names are withheld in the interest of "national security." Not only is this war carried out nationally, but it is carried out on a worldwide scale, and the war has carefully implemented the very type of society that it was supposed to fight. It has been the perfect propaganda ploy. Is it any wonder that other countries refer to the U.S. as the "Great Satan." Only the devil would dream up a scheme where a country would be tortured, pay for it and be convinced it is for its best interest. Now that the country is convinced of the necessity of the tortures and the necessity of paying for it, it will be carried to the bloody end.

    In 1969 a man was taken to prison and sentenced for horrifyingly brutal crimes. As he spoke in his own behalf near the trial's end, he may have been the prophet of what is coming. He said, "These children that come at you with knives, they are your children. You taught them. I didn't teach them. I just tried to help them stand up.

    "Most of the people at the ranch that you call the Family were just people that you did not want, people that were alongside the road that their parents had kicked out, that did not go to Juvenile Hall. So I did the best I could and I took them up on my garbage dump and I told them this: that in love there is no wrong....

    "You did not give them warmth you gave them death, I am only what lives inside each and every one of you....

    "What about your children? . . . You say there are just a few? There are many, many more, coming in the same direction. They are running in the streets - and they are coming right at you!" Charles Manson. Helter Skelter, Vincent Bugliosi.

    There is the possibility that the Attorney General, Robert Horan may ask for the death penalty for Mir Aimal Kansi. If he does and Clinton's quote is fulfilled which says, "Somehow we all end up paying for what we do", then he may be committing to death the country and its clandestine agencies for what they do. Would it not seem fair that the perpetrators of a crime should receive the same penalty as those striking back in retaliation? Are the actions of Mir Aimal Kansi only the beginning of the mountain of crimes that will roll back upon a government that sanctions such criminal activity and then pursues with relentless fury those who retaliate? While it is not the opinion of the author that one wrong sets right the actions of another wrong, or that violence calls for violence in retaliation, the cause and effect relationship is there just the same. Not all the people can be fooled (mind-controlled) all the time.

    It seems that the mind control the CIA has so freely exercised upon the world has rebounded into its own operation. They have been brain-washed into believing that the "Company" now operates with integrity and honesty. Or have they? Is this just another set-up to convince the rest of us of CIA integrity? If the world swallows the lie and believes in the honesty and integrity of this agency, then the years of mind control methods they have used have been very successful.

    "And it seems to me perfectly in the cards that there will be within the next generation or so a pharmacological method of making people love their servitude, and producing . . . a kind of painless concentration camp for entire societies, so that people will in fact have their liberties taken away from them but will rather enjoy it, because they will be distracted from any desire to rebel by propaganda, brainwashing, or brainwashing enhanced by pharmacological methods." Aldux Huxley, 1959.

    As a wise Observer said years ago, "Whatsoever a man sows that shall he also reap."

Written 6/25/97

Sources:

Acid Dreams, Martin Lee and Bruce Schlain, Grove Press

CIA Home Page on the Internet for CIA Vision, Mission and Values

Helter Skelter, Vincent Bugliosi, New York

Inside the Company, Philip Agee, Bantam Books

Journey Into Madness, Gordon Thomas, Bantam Books

Plain Speaking: An Oral Biography of Harry S. Truman, Merle Miller, New York

Spying for America, Nathan Miller, Dell Publishing

The 60 Greatest Conspiracies of All Time, Jonathan Vankin and John Whalen, Citadel Press

The Big Book of Conspiracies, Doug Moench, Paradox Press

The Mind Manipulators, Alan W. Scheflin & Edward M. Opton Jr. Paddington Press

Copyright © 1997 The WINDS. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

http://thewinds.org/

[John Dolva]

Hi Lee,I used Image Analyzer to try to enhance what I thought you were getting at with that image.

As far as the broad topic is concerned. Interesting. (I'm also interested as it parallells an other hidden issue of the lost black people who are incredibly underrepresented in the overall picture while they were so much there at the time. (I'm reading a book on the serial killer Gacy at the moment, who was a homosexual heavily distorted by guilt and pharmaceuticals, and the police's avoiding anything homosexual seems to have allowed him to keep on killing for some time. The inability to deal equanimously with certain facts of life causes many problems I think.) Anyway, I don't mean to wander off topic.

I am always concerned that such things or topics could turn into some sort of bashing, but I think you're making your points in a balanced and thoughtful way. No doubt homosexuality, like communism, was (is) used to smear people. Unfortunately the flipside happens as well, it almost becomes a no-go area. As John points out it's a fact of life, how relevant in this instance is what I'm following your topic to see.

[Lee Forman]

Hey John.

Yes - hopefully, as always, I am trying to remain objective and professional. As with many of the issues surrounding the assassination, one needs to have an historical perspective to understand the nuances, mores, themes, culture etc. of the time. A good example is the Dillard thread, where one of the points I was trying to make was that it would have been easier to coerce a black witness into changing his story, than it may have been for a white - in Dallas, Texas, 1963. I don't mean to digress - but the point is that I'd prefer to avoid any tangents concerning the topic of homosexuality in 2005. The statistics John S used may be relevant for the 21st century - but I don't know that such data would exist for the early 1960s.

In terms of 'homosexual allegations' - I think it's fair to say that being gay in 1962 - 1963 wasn't something that was broadcast. One could speculate that it would lead to an underground type of deal - whereby certain folks would gather in certain places, and there would be a network - and an understanding of who was 'in' and who was not.

There appear to have been several of these locations - some have already been referenced - I should probably look to put them all together in one place, if possible. One interesting lead seems to be the YMCA.

On the evening of October 3, 1963, Oswald is known to have checked into the Dallas YMCA, where he would remain for three nights.

From Torbitt:

In  Esquire  Magazine in December, 1966, Don  Reynolds  was

quoted  as  revealing that Lyndon Johnson and John Connally  were

two  of  the people involved in the assassination cabal. Reynolds

detailed  a  telephone  call  that  John  Connally  made  from

Washington,  D.C.  to  someone posing as  Lee  Harvey  Oswald  in

Dallas,  Texas about two weeks before November 22, 1963. Reynolds

got more specific and said the call was to the YMCA in Dallas and

that John Connally initiated the call.

Albert Osborne, whose permanent address is 920 Salinas,  Box

    308,  Laredo, Texas, was interviewed at his temporary  place

    of  residence  at  the  Central YMCA, Nashville,  Tennessee,

    where  is  registered under the name of John H. Bowen.  (Box

    308 is the address of the St. Anthony Hotel in Laredo).

http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_.../fredonia3.html

The FBI was told that Lawrence was an emphatic Castro supporter, who had received a bad conduct discharge from the military, he had checked into the same Dallas YMCA where Oswald had been staying two days earlier, he had been working at the same car dealership where Oswald had test driven a car and he had reported this incident to the FBI the day after the assassination, he was an associate of Jack Ruby, he lied to NBC reporters during an interview, and left town within a few weeks of the assassination.

Take the Young Stranger by the Hand: Same-Sex Relations and the Ymca

Author(s): Gustav-Wrathall, John Donald

Synopsis:

Now associated with family health clubs, the YMCA's bland image is the result of relentless outreach and the studied avoidance of controversy. But, as John Gustav-Wrathall shows in his fascinating social history of the organization, the life of the YMCA has been filled with strife, tragedy, and irony. Its history has reflected the struggle and shifting societal mores about masculine friendship and intimacy. Gustav-Wrathall traces the history of American gender and sexuality through a case study of this organization devoted to young men. In the nineteenth century, the YMCA was built on intense male friendships that involved economic as well as emotional interdependence. Some men found in the YMCA an alternative to mainstream patterns of heterosexual marriage and family life, choosing to live their lives as bachelors in community with other men. But with the turn of the century, social perceptions of gender and sexuality began to change, and as new paradigms of masculinity evolved, certain forms of male intimacy were regarded as deviant. After 1900, Gustav-Wrathall argues, the YMCA grew more hostile to masculine love, and, through programs in physical training, sought to expand its control over the emotional and sexual lives of its members. Ironically, while the YMCA's emphasis on physical culture served outwardly to reinforce new images of masculinity, its gymnasiums and dormitories became primary sites for illicit male sexual encounters. Gustav-Wrathall presents the YMCA as an institution of profound contradictions, reflective of the broader society's views of same-sex love and sexuality.

Another interesting phenomenon is the concept of Lee Harvey Oswald. It's important to remember when viewing the assassination that there were individuals impersonating Oswald. That is my opinion anyway. The Soviet report said that he was a homosexual. The individual that was presented to Dean Andrews may not have necessarily been the same individual that defected to Russia. 'Leon Oswald' may well have been someone else.

Another thought that I had concerned hierarchical organizational behavior - I was once clued in to something on a very simple level concerning an organization - the individual said, take a look at the top - 'they all look the same, and they are all buddies.' This is simply a reference point. I would imagine, for example, that Hoover would surround himself with associates which would be of some like mind - as opposed to raging homophobes. So extrapolate on that concept elsewhere - to whatever was going on in New Orleans.

http://brainmind.com/Hitler3.html

Certainly he didn't object when others used boys for sex, and in fact, the adult Hitler surrounded himself not just with boys, but with homosexuals with exactly those predilections. In fact, Adolf appointed Ernst Roehm a known homosexual pedophile and child rapist (Wagender, 1976) to take charge of Hitler Youth, as well as the S.A and then later gave this same position to yet another child rapist, Streicher."

Did this extend to General Reinhard Gehlen? Is this in anyway associated with Operation Paperclip, and the resettlement program in the US of Nazi criminals that should have stood trial during the war crimes tribunals?

http://www.red-ice.net/specialreports/2005...r/rwilliam.html

“Dr. Siemer is a high ranking member of a CIA sanctioned child molestation ring called “the Finders.”

This of course is consistent with Michael Riconosciuto’s testimony that Dr. Siemer worked on illegal biological warfare research for the CIA and US Intelligence groups in Indio in 1982.

What we have found is that Dr. Sidney Siemer is a child molester. A child rapist. A predator who used methods of control he learned as a member of the Military Intelligence division of the US Army to further his crimes. Based on the evidence we have gathered we believe that Dr. Siemer was involved with the MK ULTRA program initiated by the Central Intelligence Agency. The MK ULTRA program taught men how to control and affect others through brain washing, and mind control methods using radiation and experimental biological agents. Susan described her father’s use of mind control as a mix of classical conditioning with hypnosis, electric shock, sensory deprivation, and family cult involvement to increase fear. Other witnesses tell of Dr. Siemer’s involvement in radiation experiments, covert operations, and have confirmed his high security clearance

Were the 'Finders' operational since the late 50's? Was it part of a larger scale project that was tied back into MKULTRA experimentation on children?

Further - Mr. Hemming made an interesting observation which concerned the use of individuals that may be homosexual in International relations. That seems logical to me. In such fashion, individuals could be tagged as 'approved' for certain operational duties, on the basis of their sexual orientation - which may have been the case for Clay Shaw. Speculation only.

http://www.assassinationweb.com/shack3d.htm

As late as 1967, Shaw had a "covert security" classification for a program called QKENCHANT, so highly classified that we are still unable to learn what kind of program it was. Former CIA official Victor Marchetti said it was most likely run out of the Domestic Operations Division, headed by Tracy Barnes. Also involved with QKENCHANT was Barnes' assistant, E. Howard Hunt, one of the few Americans unable to account for his whereabouts at the time of the Kennedy assassination (he has given three different stories).

And I think it should be stated that there is a difference between a 'homosexual' and a 'pedophile.' The curious part about some of this is the penchant towards some of the individuals involved relative to their sexual relationship with young men, or young boys. I know it's not fair to lump them all together under one term.

And, as with quite a few of my posts, I am trying to reach a certain goal - and I am simply trying to approach this goal from as many angles as possible until I satisfactorily reach it.

  RUSSO said that one night he and LANDRY and TIM KERSHENSTINE who lives

on 2061 Pelopidas, Phone Number 943-8490, and possibly NILES PETERSON

were in the Intelect which is located on Bourbon Street and they ran into

DAVE FERRIE.  FERRIE said that he would like to talk with LANDRY

privately and RUSSO told FERRIE that whatever he had to say to LANDRY he

should do it in front of everybody.  RUSSO then told LANDRY to tell

FERRIE to take a walk and that he didn't want to be involved with him

anymore.  LANDRY then told FERRIE that he wanted to break off his

relationship.  FERRIE then told LANDRY that he would talk to him about it

later and he then turned to RUSSO and told him that either he or one of

his men would kill him for what he had done to him and LANDRY.  RUSSO

told FERRIE to just get away and stay away from LANDRY because he was no

good for LANDRY.  He said that LANDRY had told him that FERRIE used to

hypnotize him and give him posthypnotic suggestions.  He also said that

FERRIE eventually confessed to him that he used hypnosis for sexual

purposes.

Add Al Landry to the list. How old was Landry at the time of his association with Ferrie? Was he another CAP associate? Where is Marguerite Marten's letter?

Richard Case Nagell called David Ferrie, 'Hairy de Fairy.' Fairy, of course, being a slur for someone of a homosexual nature. He went on to state that he had successfully infiltrated this group, and had found Ferrie using hypnosis on Lee Harvey Oswald. Again - not sure which LHO Nagell may have encountered.

What would Clay Shaw, David Ferrie and Lee Harvey Oswald [or his double] have been doing in Jackson? A job at the Jackson Mental Hospital? And as I have stated someplace else - Judyth Baker maintains that it was for some sort of experimentation on human beings with cancer causing agents - I think it is more interesting to note that MKULTRA allegedly had an entire ward there. Glad to see I'm not the only one to think that.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/davy.htm

Davy also presents a dubious new theory of his own when he attempts to link the mental hospital in Jackson, where Oswald allegedly was seeking a job, to the CIA's infamous MK/ULTRA mind control experiments (Davy, 111-3).

MK/ULTRA is too broad a term - there were many facets to the original BLUEBIRD program. It's the one that was working on creating covert assassins that I am most interested in learning about. THere appears to be some data concerning methods used by MK/DELTA that had sexual abuse as a factor in producing the desired mental state of a victim.

Does Charles Whitman have anything to do with any of this?

[Guest Eugene B. Connolly]

Using my usual tools i.e. Shortcut to Photozoom,FocusMagic,PaintShop Pro, The Gimp

and Mediachance Bworks I have looked carefully at the photo

posted by John Dolva and have, I think, revealed a figure

in the background. as for the 'figure' in the

foreground at the window who appears to be 'keeping dick'.

If the figure in the foreground was

involved in the assassination is it possible that he is

a lookout who is relaying information to the assassin

waiting in the background to step forward when

the opportune moment arrives?

This would seem (to me) a more 'sensible approach' - if one can use such a word

as 'sensible' given the tragic circumstances.

than to have the assassin standing in full view and likely to be seen.

The background figure seems to be sitting.

His upper body and head are visible as are his arms.

Is he holding something?

Is he wearing a V-neck shirt/sweater?

Anyone interested can use the same tools as I and

see what they come up with.

Regarding the figure in the foreground I cannot detect any

facial details. This could be due to blur. Perhaps the figure

ducked in and out of the window frame and caused the blur.

I also think there be actually 2 figures in the background.

EBC

Edited October 4, 2005 by Eugene B. Connolly

[Lee Forman]

Using my usual tools i.e. Shortcut to Photozoom,FocusMagic,PaintShop Pro, The Gimp

and Mediachance Bworks I have looked carefully at the photo

posted by John Dolva and have, I think, revealed a figure

in the background. as for the 'figure' in the

foreground at the window who appears to be 'keeping dick'.

If the figure in the foreground was

involved in the assassination is it possible that he is

a lookout who is relaying information to the assassin

waiting in the background to step forward when

the opportune moment arrives?

This would seem (to me) a more 'sensible approach' - if one can use such a word

as 'sensible' given the tragic circumstances.

than to have the assassin standing in full view and likely to be seen.

The background figure seems to be sitting.

His upper body and head are visible as are his arms.

Is he holding something?

Is he wearing a V-neck shirt/sweater?

Anyone interested can use the same tools as I and

see what they come up with.

Regarding the figure in the foreground I cannot detect any

facial details. This could be due to blur. Perhaps the figure

ducked in and out of the window frame and caused the blur.

I also think there be actually 2 figures in the background.

EBC

Hey Eugene!

I think you may be right - have your looked at both windows?

There are a few interesting items about the 7th floor windows:

- I don't believe that anyone was in the 6th floor windows at the time of the shooting - just as Sprague suggested.

- Couch saw a shooter on the top floor.

- The Dillard 'longshot' has our interesting characters in the 7th floor, and doesn't seem to have anyone in the 5th, or 6th floor windows

- The 7th floor windows are much higher up off the ground than the 6th.

- The 7th floor windows in that location place the individuals inside a storage room - which I see as being a natural preference - given the open nature of the floors, and the desire to remain concealed.

- The infamous tree that partially blocks a 6th floor shot would be less of an obstacle from the 7th, [speculating] or even nil

- The 7th floor would provide access to the stairs to the roof, the elevators, and the stairs going down. Probably the fire escape as well.

- The privacy of the storage room would provide the operatives sufficient time for set-up.

- The 7th floor search appears to have been pre-empted due to the discovery of shells, etc. on the 6th floor.

One question - did the 7th floor storage room have a long table in it, in the center of the room, as well as boxes of books?

To summarize from that thread - in my opinion, we're left with 3 very good possibles on shooting locations in the TSBD:

7th floor east - in the storage room

6th floor west

5th floor east

Not the window from which Lee Harvey Oswald is supposed to have taken his magical 3 shots.

Furthermore - on the 6th floor:

- It was the corner window - which wouldn't afford much room to the left - plus there was a pipe running the length of the window.

- The boxes were stacked too close to the window to afford much room for a sniper

- The bottom ledge of the window was only some 7" or so from the floor.

- As per Gerry Patrick Hemming's comment on another thread here on the forum - the German who was somehow was wire-tapped as he made statements concerning the assassination [i would like to read more about that one] was laughing when he said that the 6th floor 'Sniper's Nest' was nothing more than a blind created by the men working there so that they could have some privacy to view pornography.

- Byrd, the owner of the TSBD at that time, had the window removed from the southwest corner.

Shortly after he bought the building, the Texas School Book Depository moved out. But not before one of their employees gave him an affidavit, he says, confirming that D. Harold Byrd had instructed a workman to remove a window from the Sixth Floor. But "he went to the wrong side of the building," Mayhew claims, "and took it from the southwestern corner."

Afraid that a vacant building was more susceptible to vandals, Mayhew says he hired two carpenters to remove the two windows and the surrounding casement that comprised the sniper's nest and replace them with identical windows from the building's north side. Mayhew says he stored the original windows in Dallas for 20 years.

On the 5th floor and etc. - how could Edgar Hoover have gotten it so wrong?

- J. Edgar Hoover: He would have been hit three times from the fifth floor of that building where we found the gun and the wrapping paper in which the gun was wrapped... and upon which we found the full fingerprints of this man Oswald. On that floor we found the three empty shells that had been fired and one shell that had not been fired... He then threw the gun aside and came down. At the entrance of the building, he was stopped by a police officer and some manager in

the building told the police officer, "Well, he's all right. He works there. You needn't hold him." They let him go...

Perhaps Hoover is speaking about a different Oswald, and a different gun.

[Lee Forman]

Eugene.

Here's my latest guess. This one is from a high res Dillard - interpolated only - no further enhancements performed.

- lee