Apollo Photos are Crude Studio Fakes

[Dave Greer]

It would seem you (or your sources) are wrong again, Duane.

From "First Man" (James R. Hansen, softback edition, Simon & Schuster, 2005, ISBN-10: 0-7432-9107-7, pages 486-487):

According to the flight plan, the take-off simulation was followed by meal time and then, officially, by a four-hour rest period. Aldrin recalls, "It was called a rest period, but it was also a built-in time pad in case we had to make an extra lunar orbit before landing, or if there was any kind of difficulty which might delay the landing. Since we landed on schedule and weren't overly tired, as we thought we might be, we opted to skip the four-hour rest period. We were too excited to sleep anyway."

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...Neil relates, "we concluded that the best thing to do, if everything was going well, was to go ahead outside as soon as we could and do the surface work before we took our sleep period."

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With everything in order, at 5:00 PM Eastern time, Armstrong radioed a recommendation that they plan to start the EVA earlier than originally scheduled.

Something that is fully supported by the documentation on the ALSJ.

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a11/a11.postland.html

104:39:14 Armstrong: Roger. Our recommendation at this point is planning an EVA, with your concurrence, starting about eight o'clock this evening, Houston time. That is about 3 hours from now.

104:39:31 Duke: Stand by.

104:39:35 Armstrong: Well, we will give you some time to think about that.

104:39:40 Duke: Tranquility Base, Houston. We thought about it; we will support it. We're go at that time. Over.

104:39:48 Armstrong: Roger.

[Aldrin, from the 1969 Technical Debrief - "We had discussed, among ourselves, the possibility of evaluating, during this first 2 hours, whether we wanted to go on with the rest period (scheduled to begin at 104:50) or to proceed with the EVA preparation. I think we had concluded before the end of the simulated countdown that we would like to go ahead with the EVA and it was sometime in here that Neil called to ground and let them know that."]

[Armstrong, from the 1969 Technical Debrief - "There were two factors that we thought might influence that decision. One was the spacecraft systems and any abnormalities that we might have that we'd want to work on; and the second was our adaptation to one-sixth g and whether we thought more time in one-sixth g before starting the EVA would be advantageous or disadvantageous at that point.

Basically, my personal feeling was that the adaptation to one-sixth g was very rapid and was very pleasant, easy to work in, and I thought at the time that we were ready to go right ahead into the surface work and recommended that.

"]

My bolding.

[Steve Ulman]

It would seem you (or your sources) are wrong again, Duane.

From "First Man" (James R. Hansen, softback edition, Simon & Schuster, 2005, ISBN-10: 0-7432-9107-7, pages 486-487):

According to the flight plan, the take-off simulation was followed by meal time and then, officially, by a four-hour rest period. Aldrin recalls, "It was called a rest period, but it was also a built-in time pad in case we had to make an extra lunar orbit before landing, or if there was any kind of difficulty which might delay the landing. Since we landed on schedule and weren't overly tired, as we thought we might be, we opted to skip the four-hour rest period. We were too excited to sleep anyway."

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.

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...Neil relates, "we concluded that the best thing to do, if everything was going well, was to go ahead outside as soon as we could and do the surface work before we took our sleep period."

.

.

.

With everything in order, at 5:00 PM Eastern time, Armstrong radioed a recommendation that they plan to start the EVA earlier than originally scheduled.

Thanks Evan-

This is exactly the way I remember reading it in "First Man" which is why I asked for the source. Very silmilar to the ALSJ as well IIRC.

{edit - OOPS - I didn't see Dave's post - My memory of the ALSJ wasn't that good }

Edited February 9, 2007 by Steve Ulman

[Duane Daman]

I'm not sure what kind of game you are all playing now but that is not what I read in Neil Armstrong's autobiography .... I read it three times to make sure I remembered it correctly because I knew it was in direct contradiction to the Parkes story .

Did Neil write another autobiography ? ... Or could you be quoting from a second CORRECTED and EDITED edition ? ... Or are have you altered the text here ?

Sorry , but I don't trust any of you to tell the truth when it comes to defending Apollo .

I'm was sure the nap information came from his most recent biography ... I remember reading it and thinking .. WTF ??? .. This is NOT the story I remember reading from Parkes because I had this very same discussion on another forum when the book first came out .... I wish now I had bought the damn thing , because not having the book in front of me I can't verify what I read now ...

I should have know that Steve was just setting me up for another game of yours ....

I don't remember that dialogue at all so maybe it was a different book ... Is the the one that only devoted two chapters to the alleged moon landing and the rest is about his career as a test pilot ?

Something is definately wrong here ... I have no doubt about what I read ... When I get some time I will go back to Barnes and Noble and see if I can find the book again or order it ... This dialogue is definately NOT what I remember reading in Neil's autobiography ... THREE TIMES .

Edited February 9, 2007 by Duane Daman

[Evan Burton]

I'm not sure what kind of game you are all playing now but that is not what I read in Neil Armstrong's autobiography .... I read it three times to make sure I remembered it correctly because I knew it was in direct contradiction to the Parkes story .

Did Neil write another autobiography ? ... Or could you be quoting from a second CORRECTED and EDITED edition ? ... Or are have you altered the text here ?

Sorry , but I don't trust any of you to tell the truth when it comes to defending Apollo .

I'm was sure the nap information came from his most recent biography ... I remember reading it and thinking .. WTF ??? .. This is NOT the story I remember reading from Parkes because I had this very same discussion on another forum when the book first came out .... I wish now I had bought the damn thing , because not having the book in front of me I can't verify what I read now ...

I should have know that Steve was just setting me up for another game of yours ....

I don't remember that dialogue at all so maybe it was a different book ... Is the the one that only devoted two chapters to the alleged moon landing and the rest is about his career as a test pilot ?

Something is definately wrong here ... I have no doubt about what I read ... When I get some time I will go back to Barnes and Noble and see if I can find the book again or order it ... This dialogue is definately NOT what I remember reading in Neil's autobiography ... THREE TIMES .

Actually, it's a biography, not an autobiography. Neil Armstrong did not write it himself - he authorised it and assisted with it.

All the details for the book are given in my post; it's a original edition (I don't know if there have been any second printings or editions).

The quoted sections are from Chapter 29 ('One Small Step').

[Duane Daman]

No , I'm not talking about me reading a second edition ... I read the original when it first came out .

It might be possble that we are talking about two different books though .

Where did you find this source to be able to post this book dialogue here ? ... Is a transcript of the book online somewhere ? ... Because if it is , and this is where you got your information from , then it has either been edited , changed by you , or this transcript here is from a different book from the one I read and remembered in detail .

Chapter 29 can not be correct either .... How many chapters are in the book you just quoted from ?

The book I remember reading had around 32 chapters and the dialogue about the nap and the EVA was right in the middle of the book , almost exactly half way .

Edited February 9, 2007 by Duane Daman

[Kevin M. West]

Well, here's an idea. Next time you find something that you think is such an amazing smoking gun, take some notes.

[Evan Burton]

No , I'm not talking about me reading a second edition ... I read the original when it first came out .

It might be possble that we are talking about two different books though .

Where did you find this source to be able to post this book dialogue here ? ... Is a transcript of the book online somewhere ? ... Because if it is , and this is where you got your information from , then it has either been edited , changed by you , or this transcript here is from a different book from the one I read and remembered in detail .

Chapter 29 can not be correct either .... How many chapters are in the book you just quoted from ?

The book I remember reading had around 32 chapters and the dialogue about the nap and the EVA was right in the middle of the book , almost exactly half way .

I can quote from it because I have the book right in front of me, an original edition. It is divided into seven parts, and 35 chapters (not including preamble or post-material).

In this soft-back edition, the quoted sections are about 2/3rds the way through the book.

The quoted sections are verbatim from the book, and not altered in any way by me.

From the book notes:

"too excited to sleep" - Buzz Aldrin, 'Return to Earth', page 232

"outside as soon as we could" - Neil Armstrong to James Hansen (the author), 19 SEP 03

[Duane Daman]

Evan ... You are either quoting from a different book than the one I read or you are intentionally MISQUOTING the book .

Just as I suspected though , you can't prove that what you posted here is really from the book ... I could say I have the book right in front of me too and write something completely different .

I do remember the words "too excited to sleep " ... but I also remember someting like .. We stayed with the original plan and took our nap , even though we couldn't sleep ... or words close to that ... I remember they had quite a lengthy a converstation while they rested too , which sounded completely contrived .

I will try to see if I can find the book again and then see for myself what it really says .

Edited February 9, 2007 by Duane Daman

[Evan Burton]

Duane,

Do you think I would be so silly as to intentionally misquote or alter something that can easily be checked?

The front cover:

The page in question:

Now, would you care to retract your statement?

[Duane Daman]

Sorry for accusing you of possibly misquoting the book ... Is this a first edition ?

I don't think that's the book cover I saw and that is certaining not the text I read either .

[Evan Burton]

That's the cover of my copy, and it doesn't mention previous editions or printings.

Perhaps a hardcover edition looks different?

[Dave Greer]

Evan ... You are either quoting from a different book than the one I read or you are intentionally MISQUOTING the book .

Just as I suspected though , you can't prove that what you posted here is really from the book ... I could say I have the book right in front of me too and write something completely different .

I do remember the words "too excited to sleep " ... but I also remember someting like .. We stayed with the original plan and took our nap , even though we couldn't sleep ... or words close to that ... I remember they had quite a lengthy a converstation while they rested too , which sounded completely contrived .

I will try to see if I can find the book again and then see for myself what it really says .

Duane

Maybe you're mixing things up with the post EVA rest period?

I was reading up on this the other day (I think it was the ALSJ) - Aldrin managed a couple of hours sleep, Armstrong couldn't get any sleep for various reasons (cold, uncomfortable, noisy LM, sunlight creeping through the window shades).

Just a thought.

[Duane Daman]

Dave ... No I'm certain the text I read about them taking their scheduled nap was when they first landed .... I was so amazed by what I read that I even took some notes so I could discuss it on the forum I was posting on at the time ... I think I even wrote down some of the dialogue from the book .

I remember that afternoon at Barnes and Noble ... I was sitting across from my girlfriend and literally jumped out of my seat when I read it , saying gottcha !!! ... because I remembered the Parkes story was completely different .

There is a possiblity that I read this in a different book but I thought it was Armstrong's biography ... I had six books on Apollo stacked up on the table and was rushing through most of them because my girlfriend was feeling ignored and getting antsy ... The reason I remember reading that they claimed to have taken their nap was not only because it was a complete contradiction to the Parkes version of the EVA timeline but I couldn't imagine being the first humans to ever land on another planet and then not rushing out onto the surface of that planet as fast as possible .... I thought , there's no way they would be able to sleep under these circumstances if they were really on the moon !

But as you well know , I don't believe they were ever really on the moon , so the story of them taking a scheduled nap came as no great surprise .

Anyhoo .... Evan has proven that this info didn't come from the book I thought it had .... So I guess that's the end of that .... Unless I can manage to find the book it was in .... and after all this time , the odds are not very good at that happening .

Edited February 10, 2007 by Duane Daman

[Evan Burton]

Anyhoo .... Evan has proven that this info didn't come from the book I thought it had .... So I guess that's the end of that .... Unless I can manage to find the book it was in .... and after all this time , the odds are not very good at that happening .

Keep looking - I'd be interested in knowing which book it came from. Even books which are written from a 'pro-Apollo' stance can contain errors.

[Duane Daman]

I believe I posted about this on the WOS right after Neil's book came out .... So when and if they ever get back online I will see if I can find the discussion again ... That is if it's still there ... A lot of their pages were torn out when the site was hacked again and their server defaced .

I wouldn't necessarily consider what I read as being so much an error on the part of the author , but rather a blunder on nasa's part for not relating the original EVA timeline story .