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The Trouble with Conspiracy Theories


Evan Burton

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Guest Tom Scully
I am not trying to be difficult here, but do not see the purpose of this. .....

......But nowhere is it reasonable that someone should be talked about for the actions of a friend, relative, etc. Are we accountable for what our family or friends do? How so?

Why is that even a point in a debate?

Can someone enlighten me?

Kathy,

I'll take a stab at answering your question as to what is or isn't "reasonable", in the process of uncovering the secrets of the powerful. It is supposed to be the work that journalists commit themselves to doing, but by and large, they don't because the powerful have persuaded them that it is not in the best interests of journalists to do so. Instead, journalists enable, emulate, and attempt to mingle and to commiserate with the powerful.

So it seems it is left to us....people like you and Peter and me, to do the uncovering.

Here is an example of paths I'm going down, leading to people like the ones I think you describe, the friends and relatives of the principles of my inquiry. When is it appropriate or not to look into the lives of the friends and relatives and share what is found?

The case in point begins with research of two people, both close to GHW Bush; Edward Gordon Hooker and Thomas J. Devine. So, we look, aided with leads from the research published in Russ Baker's recent book.

Hooker was Bush's Andover boarding school roommate, and he was the stepson of Dimitri von Mohrenschildt, and later the business partner of Dimitri's brother, George de Mohrenschildt, the man called Lee Harvey Oswald's best friend.

Hooker died in 1967, and in 1973, GHW Bush walks Hooker's daughter Suzanne, down the aisle to be wedded to Ames Braga son of the Cuban sugar baron described in an excerpt from the 1981 book

titled, "The Fish is Red: The Story of the Secret War Against Castro".

Ames Braga's father, B. Rionda Braga, was the first cousin and business partner of Placido Eversun. Eversun's wife, white Russian noble woman Nina Osterman(n), was the sister of Valentina Osterman. In 1963, Valentina was married to Ernest Byfield Jr., former US Army captain and WWII OSS S-2 agent. Byfield's mother was leasing, since, December, 1960, her 400 acre, Middleburg, VA estate, Glen Ora, to the JFK family, occupied by them until spring, 1963, as the weekend white house.

Byfield's father, Ernest L. Byfield, dead by 1950, had been the sponsor of Patrick H. Hoy's executive career, and Hoy, during the entire 1950's, was the president of the Byfield family Sherman Hotel Group holdings. Hoy had close ties to Sidney Korshak and Irv Kupcinet, and knew friends of Jack Ruby and possibly Ruby, himself. Kupcinet described in his first book the hiring of Hoy by Henry Crown as a VP of the winning bidder of the TFX contract, General Dynamics. Crown's lawyer, Albert E. Jenner, Jr., was appointed, at the insistance of Earl Warren, as asst. WC counsel charged with investigating whether a conspiracy was behind the shootings of JFK or of Oswald. Crown stood to lose the most if the Senate committee investigation into the awarding of the TFX contract had proceeded, and to gain the most if it ended with no action taken to suspend or to transfer the TFX contract award.

Thomas J. Devine, we are told, ended a two year career beginning at CIA to partner with GHW Bush in his oil exploration venture. In 1973, Devine married Alexandra Mills of Jupiter Island, FL, and the NY Times wedding announcement reveals that Devine's best man was William B. Macomber, Jr.

At the time, Macomber was US ambassador to Turkey, and he had served as JFK's ambassador to Jordan. He had attended the 1950's US Senate swearing in ceremony of JFK as the guest of Sen. Prescott Bush. Macomber had served in WWII as a USMC officer operating as an OSS agent first in Europe and then in Burma. He later spent two years in CIA before working as an assistant to John Foster Dulles at the State dept. Macomber married Dulles's personal secretary, Phyllis Dorothy Bernau.

Kathy, what would you do, at this point, with the above research results? Is it appropriate to mention that Suzanne Hooker was divorced from Ames Braga, and then married to Michael Ainslie, a Harvard MBA in 1973 who became the protege of then Mckinsey & Co. senior partner, John D. Macomber, brother of William B. Macomber, Jr.? Is it appropriate to link Suzanne's business profile?

If I follow your logic accurately, friends and relatives of those who we research and form further negative impressions of, are not necessarily guilty by association, yet, in this particular exercise, the activities of not only Suzanne Hooker's father, Edward, but of both of her husbands and their families or associates are suspect, and not because of observations I am making. The Riondo Bragas and Michael Ainslie and the Macombers, along with the Bushes, Dulleses, and perhaps Thomas Devine, all have worked to make the world and the US in particular, more unsavory and miserable places for the rest of us, compared to our lot if we had been spared the fallout of all of their "careers". Suzanne Hooker did not choose who her father was, and did not choose to be escorted down the aisle in the ceremony of her first wedding by then RNC chairman, GHW Bush, but she did choose to marry Ames Braga, and then Michael Ainslie, and is thus notable because of those choices, coupled with father's background.

Is it appropriate to post details of the careers of the Ainslies and to point out that the association between John Macomber and Michael Ainslie has endured for 35 years to the point where they are both named in lawsuits for their alleged roles, as fellow Lehman board members, in the recent implosion and bankruptcy of that firm?

Is it appropriate to detail more of the background of Suzanne Hooker's second husband?

http://www.forbes.com/2001/11/28/1128taubman.html

Court Report

Taubman Log: Professions Of Ignorance

Dan Ackman, 11.28.01, 9:01 AM ET

NEW YORK - Michael Ainslie, a former chief executive of Sotheby's Holdings, appeared lost on the witness stand. Seeming out of touch with the auction business he once managed, Ainslie went on to admit that A. Alfred Taubman, the company's former chairman on trial for price-fixing, never told him about many private meetings with his Christie's counterpart.

Testifying in Taubman's defense, Ainslie said his former boss wasn't concerned about the financial aspects of the business and indeed was incompetent to understand them. But Ainslie left his own competence in question by claiming that art auction houses could raise buyers' commissions almost instantly, when in fact they allowed nearly six months lead time.

He also insisted that Sotheby's (nyse: BID - news - people ) would never have a lower commission rate for art dealers than the general public, just one day before the Sotheby's managing director testified the practice was traditional in the auction business and remains routine.

Ainslie's most damaging testimony came at the end of his cross-examination. Despite the fact he spoke with his former boss as much as five times per day, Ainslie admitted Taubman never once mentioned to him that he had regular meetings with Sir Anthony Tennant, chairman of Christie's. It was at these meetings, always in one of Taubman's apartments, that the United States charges Taubman and Tennant agreed to collude on the commissions the auction houses would charge their clients. .....

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=m...amp;btnG=Search

EXECUTIVE PROFILE*

Michael L. Ainslie Return to Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc.

Independent Director, Chairman of Compensation Committee and Member of Governance & Nominating Committee, The St. Joe Company

Age Total Annual Compensation This person is connected to 94 board members in 5 different organizations across 2 different industries.

See Board Relationships

64 --

BACKGROUND*

Michael L. Ainslie served as President and Chief Executive Officer of Sotheby's Holdings from 1984 to 1994. From 1980 to 1984, Mr. Ainslie served as President and Chief Executive Officer of the National Trust for Historic Preservation. From 1975 to 1980, he served as Chief Operating Officer of N-Ren Corp. From 1971 to 1975, he served as President of Palmas Del Mar. Mr. Ainslie has been a Director of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc., the parent company of Lehman Brothers ...

History of St. Joe Co. here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Joe_Company

The price of St. Joe stock is down 63 percent in the past 12 months: http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=JOE&t=1y

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...1684521,00.html

Can McKinsey & Co. Fix the Government?

By Michael Kinsley Thursday, Nov. 15, 2007

....The myth of the management consultant in general and McKinsey in particular has never been stronger. McKinsey consultants are restructuring the educational system of Israel, advising insurers on dealing with Hurricane Katrina, comparing the performance of Indian and American companies, reforming the North Carolina Department of Transportation. Even Time Inc. is a client. And a 36-year-old former McKinsey consultant, Bobby Jindal, has just been elected Governor of Louisiana.

What exactly do management consultants do? I asked this of a McKinsey recruiter many years ago. He said, "We provide expertise." I said, "But you're thinking of hiring me, and I have no expertise." He said, "We'll train you." Nothing about that interview dissuaded me from the view that consultants spend at least as much energy and brainpower selling themselves to clients as they spend doing whatever the client pays them to do.....

Does Ainslie's reluctant non-testimony in the 2001 bid rigging trial of his boss, financier Taubman, at all related to Ainslie's ten year tenure as Sotheby's auction house president, and the roles of C. Douglas Dillon and Ainslie's mentor, John D. Macomber's brother William's leadership role at the Met. Museum of Art? Bruce Campbell Adamson links the Met. Museum to the JFK assassination.....

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0602/S00265.htm

Wednesday, 22 February 2006, 5:06 pm

Opinion: Suzan Mazur

The Italy-Met Euphronios Accord?

On August 31 [1972], [bob] Hecht [now facing antiquities trafficking charges in Italy] arrived with the [Euphronios] vase in a crate and, according to one account, handed it over to [former US Treasury Secretary/Chairman, New York Metropolitan Museum of Art (Met) Acquisitions Committee, C. Douglas] Dillon and [Met Director Tom] Hoving at Kennedy International Airport. At any rate, the bill of sale bears that date. The Acquisitions Committee of the trustees [including New York Times publisher Arthur Sulzberger, Sr.] approved the purchase twelve days later.

--John L. Hess, The Grand Acquisitors

The battle for ownership of the Euphronios vase illustrates perfectly how the New York Times publishing family fools only itself. Sales of the newspaper deservedly continue to decline as the people responsible for putting the Times out think they can get away with hoodwinking the public.

In the case of the Euphronios, thanks to Oscar Muscarella's widely-read interviews published here -- the public is wise to the fact that the deck has always been stacked regarding the vase and other ancient treasures in relation to the Met, due partly to the New York Times Sulzberger publishing family sitting on the museum's board of trustees and acquisitions committee while propagandizing in its coverage of ancient art in the paper, failing of course to disclose its relationship to the museum in those same stories.....

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/21/arts/design/21true.html

Getty Ex-Curator Testifies in Rome Antiquities Trial

By ELISABETTA POVOLEDO

Published: March 20, 2009

ROME — In a court appearance on Friday, Marion True, the former curator of antiquities at the J. Paul Getty Museum in Los Angeles, defended herself against accusations that she knowingly bought antiquities that had been illegally excavated.....

....Ms. True was speaking in the Rome courtroom where she is on trial with the American antiquities dealer Robert Hecht on charges of conspiracy to traffic in antiquities looted from Italian soil. In Italian legal proceedings, defendants are allowed to make spontaneous comments, and Ms. True’s remarks came in response to testimony by Daniela Rizzo, an archaeologist and prosecution witness.

Ms. Rizzo said on Friday that Ms. True could have, and should have, done more to prevent the trade in looted antiquities. “Your cooperation has always been very positive,” she told Ms. True, who sat with her lawyers. “But you are an archaeologist, a scholar and a great expert, and you had the knowledge to recognize objects that could have come from Etruria.”

Perhaps “a closer, more direct collaboration with Italian archaeologists would have been more useful than to return objects over time,” Ms. Rizzo said.

It was the first time that Ms. True has appeared in court to refute the charges against her in a trial that began nearly four years ago.

Even as the proceedings have dragged on from hearing to hearing, often with months of delays in between, Italian Culture Ministry officials have negotiated deals with American museums and private collectors, including the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York; the Museum of Fine Arts, Boston; and the Cleveland Museum of Art, for the return of artifacts said to have been looted.

In 2007, after years of legal wrangling, the Getty agreed to turn over 40 objects from its collection, some of which are part of the prosecution’s case against Ms. True and Mr. Hecht. The return of the objects had no bearing on the case.....

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?um=1&...+douglas+dillon

ANONYMITY IS KEY TO DULLES' STAFF; With Few Exceptions State Departmen...

- New York Times - Jan 20, 1958

... Under Secretaries, Robert Murphy, Loy Henderson and C. Douglas Dillon. ... The four Ivy League lawyers are William B. Macomber, Assistant Secretary for ...

Ex-Diplomat to Head Met Museum; Macomber, Ex-Diplomat, to Head Met...

- New York Times - Apr 19, 1978

He is William B. Macomber Jr., a 57-year-old retired diplomat whose last post was ... Mr. Macomber, whose salary was not disclosed, succeeds Douglas Dillon, ...

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/22/nyregion...dies-at-82.html

William Macomber, Diplomat and Met Chief, Dies at 82

By WOLFGANG SAXON

Published: Saturday, November 22, 2003

.....William Butts Macomber Jr., a former government official and diplomat who in 1978 became the first full-time president of the Metropolitan Museum of Art, died on Wednesday at his home in Nantucket, Mass. He was 82.

The cause was complications of Parkinson's disease, his family said.

Mr. Macomber, a lawyer and a Republican, held State Department appointments under Presidents Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon and Ford and served as ambassador to Jordan and Turkey. At the museum, he put into effect an ambitious master plan adopted by the trustees at the behest of his predecessor, C. Douglas Dillon, who then became chairman.

The plan split the leadership of the museum in two, with a director responsible for artistic and curatorial matters and a newly salaried president in charge of administrative and financial matters. Mr. Macomber held that position until 1986, when he reached the Met's mandatory retirement age, 65, ...

http://books.google.com/books?id=pD6qyySpU...rch_s&cad=0

Amiraqa and the New American Century‎ - Page 88

by Chris Wogan - Social Science - 2004 - 380 pages

...Investors in Bush's early oil ventures included drug store magnate (Rite Aid) and PNAC-member Lewis Lehrman, George L. Ball (head of EF Hutton Inc), George L. Ohrstrom, venture caplitalist William H. Draper III, John D. Macomber (CEO of Celanese Corp), Russell E. Reynolds, Salem bin Laden, James Baker III (who held many positions for both Reagan and Bush Sr) Philip Uzielli, Stephen Kass, and Khalid bin Mahfouz of the BCCI (identified as a defendant in the 9/11 families' lawsuit against finaciers of 9/11), among others. Draper and Macomber both held the position of head of the Export Import Bank (Eximbank) during both the Reagan and Bush administrations, the Eximbank being essential in the arming of Iraq....

http://dir.salon.com/story/books/feature/1...ush/index2.html

The mediocrity that roared

11/23/1999

....Even with those advantages, it wasn't easy for Bush to strike it rich in Midland. He got distracted by an unsuccessful run for Congress in 1978, though he won the Republican primary, an amazing reach for a 32-year-old without a résumé. But thanks to Uncle Jonathan, the money-losing Arbusto attracted a growing list of investors, including William Draper and John Macomber, who would later become presidents of the U.S. Export-Import Bank under the Reagan and Bush administrations; James Bath, a front man for shady Saudi investors, including the father of Osama Bin Laden; and, when times were really tough, Philip Uzielli, an old Princeton pal of James Baker, George H.W. Bush's presidential campaign manager, who invested $1 million and lost almost all of it.

http://www.secinfo.com/dsvrt.bC7.htm

....JOHN D. MACOMBER

Principal since 1992 of the JDM Investment Group, a

private investment firm. Chairman and President of

the Export-Import Bank of the United States from

1989 to 1992. Chairman of J.D. Macomber & Co. from

1987 to 1989. Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

of Celanese Corporation from 1973 to 1986. Director

of the Company from 1978 to 1989 and since February

1993. His present term expires at this Annual

Meeting. Mr. Macomber is a director of The Brown

Group, Inc., DNA Plant Technology Corporation,

Pilkington Ltd., Textron, Inc. and Xerox

Corporation. He is Chairman of the Council For

Excellence in Government, a director of the

Atlantic Council of the United States and the

National Executive Services Corps. He is also on

the Advisory Boards of the Center for Strategic &

International Studies and the Yale School of

Management and on the International Advisory Board

of Paribas Banque (France). He is a Trustee of the

Carnegie Institution of Washington and the

Rockefeller University, a Charter Trustee of

Phillips Academy-Andover and a member of the

Council on Foreign Relations, Inc. Board

Committees: Audit Committee and Compensation and

Management Development Committee.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_D._Macomber

John D. Macomber (born January 13, 1928) in Rochester, New York is the principal of JDM Investment Group and was the President of the Export-Import Bank of the United States from 1989 to 1992. He was a Senior Partner at McKinsey & Co. until 1973 and Chairman and CEO of Celanese Corporation until 1986. Mr. Macomber is also Chairman of the Council for Excellence in Government, Rand McNally and Company, and Vice Chairman of the Atlantic Council. He has retired from serving on the Board of Directors of Lehman Brothers, Bristol-Myers Squibb Company, The Brown Group, Inc., Chase Manhattan Bank, RJR Nabisco, Pilkington Ltd., and Xerox Corporation.

Macomber graduated from Phillips Academy, Yale University in 1950, and Harvard Business School in 1952.

He is married to Washington philanthropist Caroline Macomber.

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=CAR...ed=us&hl=en

CAROLINE MORGAN WILL BE MARRIED; Bryn Mawr Alumna Fiancee of John DeWitt Macomber

- New York Times - Aug 20, 1955

The prospective bride is a granddaughter of Mrs. Junius Spencer Morgan of Constitution Hill, Princeton, and the late Junius Spencer Morgan,

a nephew of the late J. Pierpont Morgan and a first cousin of the late J. P. Morgan....

A year after William Butts Macomber Jr. served as best man in the wedding of Thomas J. Devine, Macomber's brother John and his wife Caroline Morgan had a son and they named him William Butts Macomber II

Edited by Tom Scully
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I am not trying to be difficult here, but do not see the purpose of this. .....

......But nowhere is it reasonable that someone should be talked about for the actions of a friend, relative, etc. Are we accountable for what our family or friends do? How so?

Why is that even a point in a debate?

Can someone enlighten me?

Kathy,

I'll take a stab at answering your question as to what is or isn't "reasonable", in the process of uncovering the secrets of the powerful. It is supposed to be the work that journalists commit themselves to doing, but by and large, they don't because the powerful have persuaded them that it is not in the best interests of journalists to do so. Instead, journalists enable, emulate, and attempt to mingle and to commiserate with the powerful.

[...]

A year after William Butts Macomber Jr. served as best man in the wedding of Thomas J. Devine, Macomber's brother John and his wife Caroline Morgan and

No offense but this post like several others you have made reminded me of story about Hugo Black who was a senator before being nominated to the Supreme Court. One of his colleagues gave a very long speech during debate over a proposed law, over an hour IIRC. When he was done Black adressed him (appproximate quote) "I just have one question for the gentleman from Missouri*, is he for or against the bill?"

Other than your intro, I have no idea what your point was. Can you sum it up in a papragph or two?

* Or what ever state the guy was from.

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Guest Tom Scully
....No offense but this post like several others you have made reminded me of story about Hugo Black who was a senator before being nominated to the Supreme Court. One of his colleagues gave a very long speech during debate over a proposed law, over an hour IIRC. When he was done Black adressed him (appproximate quote) "I just have one question for the gentleman from Missouri*, is he for or against the bill?"

Other than your intro, I have no idea what your point was. Can you sum it up in a papragph or two?

* Or what ever state the guy was from.

No offense taken, Len.

I perceive a number of players, Len, quite possibly a class who perceive themselves as having it within their power to effect changes they decide to make via events like the assassination of JFK, and then the destruction of the US middle class, culminating in the desctruction of the US financial system and the paper US currency.

It seems to be about a very few, controlling political power and policy, for the purpose of long term concentration of wealth, along with the political power required to hold that concentrated wealth, for the longer term. Accomplish these goals and everything else, from the standpoint of being able to control and thus exploit the masses of the world, likely falls into place.

In the near present, McKinsey & Co, alumni, former senior partner John Macomber and his former protege, Michael Ainslie, happen to be two of the small number of elite insiders "serving" as board members of the highly leverage Lehman Bros. financial house, at or around the time of it's implosion. The implosion of Lerhman is a catalyst for the dramatic downturn in US finance and economy, along with the huge stresses on the US Treasury and currency that follow, and on the modest portfolios of the declining US middle class. Macomber is recent chaiman of the CFR, and married to a member of the JP Morgan family. He was appointed to high profile office by GHW Bush and served on the board of Chase Manhattan Bank.

Michael Ainslie presided for a decade over the corrupted growth of Sotheby's auction house, initially during the period when Macomber's brother was president of the Met. Museum of Art, and prices for prized works of auctioned art were rising dramatically. Ainslie was exposed as corrupt via his testimony in the 2001 trial of his Sotheby's boss, Taubman. These men secretly worked with rival auction house Christie's to rig bids and commissions to the detriment of buyers and sellers. They facilitated a bubble of specualtion in the art world.

Ainslie kept his mamagement role in Sotheby's realty division, and grew much wealthier from this endeavor. He is in a key position at the St. Joe Co, during the present period of the dramatic decline in it's prospects.

Macomber and Ainslie are supposed to be among "the best and the brightest", just as Ainslie's late father-in-law, Edward G Gordon, and his good friend, GHW Bush were supposed to be. Notice that all have prospered financially, even as the systems and enterprises they managed, consulted for, and shaped and signed off on policies of, all seem to have ened up much worse off as a result of the influence of these men.

Hooker and his daughter Suzanne seem to be poster children for this phenomena which seems as if it is sabotage of the political and economic system.

Suzanne was handed literally by GHW Bush, into the arms of the Braga family, her father-in-law was the son of the front man for the father of Douglas Dillon financed "Op" to consolidate the sugar industry and fleece the world's consumers. 90 years ago, in a price manipulation resulting fromt their cornering of the sugar market. The Rionda-Braga consolidation of the Cuban sugar plantations was a colonialist activity that contributed to the grievances against inequity and corruption that gave rise to the overthrow of Batista. The Dillons and Rionda-Bragas become very wealthy.

Castro confiscated the Rionda-Braga holdings, JFK reneged on the muscle element of the "Op" to retake Cuba, The Braga-Eversun-Byfield-Hoy-Crown-General Dynamics link is either an improbable set of coincidences along the way, and maybe the Bush-Hooker-DeMohrenschildt-Oswald link, and the Bush-Devine-Macomber links all are just coincidences, too, and mayber some or all of them, aren't. Maybe they are clues to much more.

This being a forum for discussion/debate on whether or not the assassination of JFK was or wasn't a conspiracy, all of the details in my last post can be regared as grist for the mill....snippets or more that may seem significant to other readers.

All it takes to get it, IMO, Len, is a certain level of curiosity with a ingrained sense of skepticism. You either have it, or you don't, or (not you....per se...) or you have some other agenda that brings one here to participate.

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This alone is worth the price of admission.

Of course Ernest L. Byfield = Ernest Blowfield, chairman of the board of SMERSH, or was it SPECTRE? - BK

....The case in point begins with research of two people, both close to GHW Bush; Edward Gordon Hooker and Thomas J. Devine. So, we look, aided with leads from the research published in Russ Baker's recent book.

Hooker was Bush's Andover boarding school roommate, and he was the stepson of Dimitri von Mohrenschildt, and later the business partner of Dimitri's brother, George de Mohrenschildt, the man called Lee Harvey Oswald's best friend.

Hooker died in 1967, and in 1973, GHW Bush walks Hooker's daughter Suzanne, down the aisle to be wedded to Ames Braga son of the Cuban sugar baron described in an excerpt from the 1981 book

titled, "The Fish is Red: The Story of the Secret War Against Castro".

Ames Braga's father, B. Rionda Braga, was the first cousin and business partner of Placido Eversun. Eversun's wife, white Russian noble woman Nina Osterman(n), was the sister of Valentina Osterman. In 1963, Valentina was married to Ernest Byfield Jr., former US Army captain and WWII OSS S-2 agent. Byfield's mother was leasing, since, December, 1960, her 400 acre, Middleburg, VA estate, Glen Ora, to the JFK family, occupied by them until spring, 1963, as the weekend white house.

Byfield's father, Ernest L. Byfield, dead by 1950, had been the sponsor of Patrick H. Hoy's executive career, and Hoy, during the entire 1950's, was the president of the Byfield family Sherman Hotel Group holdings. Hoy had close ties to Sidney Korshak and Irv Kupcinet, and knew friends of Jack Ruby and possibly Ruby, himself. Kupcinet described in his first book the hiring of Hoy by Henry Crown as a VP of the winning bidder of the TFX contract, General Dynamics. Crown's lawyer, Albert E. Jenner, Jr., was appointed, at the insistance of Earl Warren, as asst. WC counsel charged with investigating whether a conspiracy was behind the shootings of JFK or of Oswald. Crown stood to lose the most if the Senate committee investigation into the awarding of the TFX contract had proceeded, and to gain the most if it ended with no action taken to suspend or to transfer the TFX contract award....

Edited by William Kelly
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I perceive a number of players, Len, quite possibly a class who perceive themselves as having it within their power to effect changes they decide to make via events like the assassination of JFK, and then the destruction of the US middle class, culminating in the desctruction of the US financial system and the paper US currency.

It seems to be about a very few, controlling political power and policy, for the purpose of long term concentration of wealth, along with the political power required to hold that concentrated wealth, for the longer term. Accomplish these goals and everything else, from the standpoint of being able to control and thus exploit the masses of the world, likely falls into place.

In the near present, McKinsey & Co, alumni, former senior partner John Macomber and his former protege, Michael Ainslie, happen to be two of the small number of elite insiders "serving" as board members of the highly leverage Lehman Bros. financial house, at or around the time of it's implosion. The implosion of Lerhman is a catalyst for the dramatic downturn in US finance and economy, along with the huge stresses on the US Treasury and currency that follow, and on the modest portfolios of the declining US middle class. Macomber is recent chaiman of the CFR, and married to a member of the JP Morgan family. He was appointed to high profile office by GHW Bush and served on the board of Chase Manhattan Bank.

Michael Ainslie presided for a decade over the corrupted growth of Sotheby's auction house, initially during the period when Macomber's brother was president of the Met. Museum of Art, and prices for prized works of auctioned art were rising dramatically. Ainslie was exposed as corrupt via his testimony in the 2001 trial of his Sotheby's boss, Taubman. These men secretly worked with rival auction house Christie's to rig bids and commissions to the detriment of buyers and sellers. They facilitated a bubble of specualtion in the art world.

Ainslie kept his mamagement role in Sotheby's realty division, and grew much wealthier from this endeavor. He is in a key position at the St. Joe Co, during the present period of the dramatic decline in it's prospects.

Macomber and Ainslie are supposed to be among "the best and the brightest", just as Ainslie's late father-in-law, Edward G Gordon, and his good friend, GHW Bush were supposed to be. Notice that all have prospered financially, even as the systems and enterprises they managed, consulted for, and shaped and signed off on policies of, all seem to have ened up much worse off as a result of the influence of these men.

Hooker and his daughter Suzanne seem to be poster children for this phenomena which seems as if it is sabotage of the political and economic system.

Suzanne was handed literally by GHW Bush, into the arms of the Braga family, her father-in-law was the son of the front man for the father of Douglas Dillon financed "Op" to consolidate the sugar industry and fleece the world's consumers. 90 years ago, in a price manipulation resulting fromt their cornering of the sugar market. The Rionda-Braga consolidation of the Cuban sugar plantations was a colonialist activity that contributed to the grievances against inequity and corruption that gave rise to the overthrow of Batista. The Dillons and Rionda-Bragas become very wealthy.

Castro confiscated the Rionda-Braga holdings, JFK reneged on the muscle element of the "Op" to retake Cuba, The Braga-Eversun-Byfield-Hoy-Crown-General Dynamics link is either an improbable set of coincidences along the way, and maybe the Bush-Hooker-DeMohrenschildt-Oswald link, and the Bush-Devine-Macomber links all are just coincidences, too, and mayber some or all of them, aren't. Maybe they are clues to much more.

This being a forum for discussion/debate on whether or not the assassination of JFK was or wasn't a conspiracy, all of the details in my last post can be regared as grist for the mill....snippets or more that may seem significant to other readers.

All it takes to get it, IMO, Len, is a certain level of curiosity with a ingrained sense of skepticism. You either have it, or you don't, or (not you....per se...) or you have some other agenda that brings one here to participate.

It must be due to my intellectual limitation then that I don't see how some schoolmate of George Bush being involved in the auction house scandals of of the 90's is relevant to the assassination or Kathy's question. Yes he knew people, who people who knew people but what does it prove? The only really intriguing one is him knowing DeMohrenschildt but they both were involved with Texas petroleum.

Back to the non-indictment of OBL have you given up on trying to pass it off as evidence of anything? Note that even he said it was carried out by Muslim fundamentalists, but I guess you know more about the subject than he does. :)

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Guest Tom Scully
It must be due to my intellectual limitation then that I don't see how some schoolmate of George Bush being involved in the auction house scandals of of the 90's is relevant to the assassination or Kathy's question. Yes he knew people, who people who knew people but what does it prove? The only really intriguing one is him knowing DeMohrenschildt but they both were involved with Texas petroleum.

Back to the non-indictment of OBL have you given up on trying to pass it off as evidence of anything? Note that even he said it was carried out by Muslim fundamentalists, but I guess you know more about the subject than he does. :)

Len,

You agreed that the Bush/Cheney regime did not build a reputation for making reliable statements on national security threats or on most other matters.

You posted that there was nothing to support Ed Haas's conversation content with FBI's Rex Tomb. Then you posted that the web page I posted a link to that somewhat supported what Tomb's told Ed Haas was compiled two years after the conversation, when it was compiled less than three months later.

I did not originally post about Ed Haas. I also pointed out the contradictions and hard to believe, delayed results of the "half hearted" NIST investigation of the collapse of WTC 7.

Add my points up to whatever you take to be my conclusions.....I try not to make them....not enough serious info is available.

The Macomber brothers are all over the Bushes....from Prescott to GW Bush, to Tom Devine. It was Hooker's daughter's second husband who was with Sotheby's for ten years and was the protege of John Macomber...... John Macomber received an appointment from GHW Bush and invested in GW Bush's business, and is a partner in starting Athena Health with GW Bush's first cousin. William Macomber was a friend of Prescott Bush, was OSS and CIA, married John Foster Dulles's personal secretary, was best man at Thomas Devine's wedding, and succeeded C. Douglas Dillon as president of the Met. Museum of Art.

What I am convinced of as that everything this cabal touches, except for their own portfolios, seems to turn to sh*t....and I'm suspecting it is all part of "the plan":

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/200...ions/index.html

.....As Schwarz put it yesterday in citing highly revealing comments by Tim Geithner at a CFR conference this week:

There's been a common phenomenon in the third world over the past three decades or so. A country's financial sector, in collaboration with the larger financial world, would create some type of gigantic economic xxxx up. The IMF would then (in collaboration with the local financial elites) step in and provide loans in return for what was called "structural adjustment." Structural adjustment involved getting rid of any kind of social spending that made life bearable for everyone else.

In other words, the country's financial elites would use the catastrophes they'd created themselves in order to do what they'd always wanted to but couldn't get away with in normal times. They took the profit, and then imposed all the costs on everyone else.

Isn't that exactly what is now happening here? .....

Read the whole linked piece, Len....it isn't that long, and then tell me if the "push back" to the left in Brazil and in Venezuela is not a reaction to what is described above..... "They" are restless, ambitiuos, and in a class by themselves.......

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You agreed that the Bush/Cheney regime did not build a reputation for making reliable statements on national security threats or on most other matters.

True but irrelevant since I never based my argument on accepting the veracity of their pronoucements.

You posted that there was nothing to support Ed Haas's conversation content with FBI's Rex Tomb. Then you posted that the web page I posted a link to that somewhat supported what Tomb's told Ed Haas was compiled two years after the conversation, when it was compiled less than three months later.

Your belief that the Radio Canada report “somewhat supported” Haas’ claims is wishful thinking. My mistaken belief that the report was from 2008 was only one of several points I raised the rest still stand.

Let’s look at my major points and your replies. Since the details and sourcing can be found in my previous posts I won’t repeat them here.

Point 1 – Tomb didn’t work for a prosecutor nor was he directly involved in the investigation.

Your response: None

Point 2– Getting an indictment is a very low hurdle

Your response: None

Point 3 – There was (and still is) lots of evidence against OBL obviously more than enough to get an indictment especially considering the post 9/11 climate.

Your response: None

Point 4 – About 2 weeks after the attacks Tomb said "there's going to be a considerable amount of time before anyone associated with the attacks is actually charged," by November 6 (only 8 weeks after 9/11) the Bush junta took such prosecutions out of the DoJ’s hands and entrusted them to the DoD and claimed this circumvented the 5th amendment requirement for indictments. Thus there would be no reason to expect an indictment after that date.

Your response: None

I did not originally post about Ed Haas. I also pointed out the contradictions and hard to believe, delayed results of the "half hearted" NIST investigation of the collapse of WTC 7.

Your provided a link to a document with IIRC about 15 pages of complaints of a CT, with questionable qualifications, I asked you highlight a few so that we could discuss them so far you haven’t taken me up on that.

Add my points up to whatever you take to be my conclusions.....I try not to make them....not enough serious info is available.

A bit of a cop out is it?

The Macomber brothers are all over the Bushes....from Prescott to GW Bush, to Tom Devine. It was Hooker's daughter's second husband who was with Sotheby's for ten years and was the protege of John Macomber...... John Macomber received an appointment from GHW Bush and invested in GW Bush's business, and is a partner in starting Athena Health with GW Bush's first cousin. William Macomber was a friend of Prescott Bush, was OSS and CIA, married John Foster Dulles's personal secretary, was best man at Thomas Devine's wedding, and succeeded C. Douglas Dillon as president of the Met. Museum of Art.

If you got though enough “degrees of separation” you can tie Queen Elizabeth to members of uncontacted tribes in the Amazon and with much fewer “degrees” you can tie together members of the Northeastern-WASP-prep school-Ivy League establishment from a particular generation. But that still begs the question, what does it prove?

What I am convinced of as that everything this cabal touches, except for their own portfolios, seems to turn to sh*t....and I'm suspecting it is all part of "the plan":

Are you referring to the recent economic meltdown? If so can you point to investments that have gone up in the last few months and show they are exclusively or at least disproportionately held by “the cabal”? To me it seems more of a Greek tragedy than ornate plot.

Read the whole linked piece, Len....it isn't that long, and then tell me if the "push back" to the left in Brazil and in Venezuela is not a reaction to what is described above..... "They" are restless, ambitiuos, and in a class by themselves.......

Firstly there wasn't much of a '"push back" to the left in Brazil'. Although they maintained much of their rhetoric Lula and the PT (Worker's Party) and allied parties even the largest "Communist" Party (PCdoB) moderated their politics to the point they are not that different from the centrist PSDB (Social Democrats) who ran the country for the previous 8 years. They even brought the far right Partido Progressista into their coalition. The PP, then called the PSD, (aka PPB, PPR, and ARENA) opposed the return to civilian rule in the 1980's.

Secondly Lula had been a close 2nd in several previous elections so their wasn't much of a shift.

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Tom, You're fairly new here and welcome, IMHO...but do you know what 'dancing with the devil' is like? The 'real problem with conspiracy theories' is that some [agreed, not all!!] who try to negate their import are actually involved in a conspiracy to make sure people just keep endlessly talking [better endlessly doubting], crossing all 't's' and dotting all 'i's' - so as most never feel certain enough of the conclusion to ever take any ACTION. You might be engaged with such an entity, as we speak......IMHO.

Unlike you and Drago Tom seems to be quite civil and doesn't stoop to character assassination when the facts don't go his way. Don't scapegoat me your 'inaction', I suspect that started long before we crossed paths here.

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A question for Peter, Tom, Cliff and whomever else cares to answer. Would you collaborate with someone who is openly and virulently racist and anti-Semitic if it would spread the word about 9/11 etc?

Speaking for myself, no - and no need to. The truthful word about 9/11, Dallas, RFK, MLK, the host of other assassinations, cover-ops, false-flag ops, bank heists, government overthrows, death-quads, corporate takover of Planet, official drug running, propaganda, cover-ups et al. are making their way, slowly but surely, into the consciousness of more and more anyway. 'Resistance is useless.' The anti-conspiracy conspiracy only slows things down slightly - ever so now - the economic collapse and Bush years/911 are now opening eyes more rapidly than ever. 'Resistance is useless.' Ever think of taking up golf?

Do you have any evidence to support you belief public opinion is shifting your way? Polls taken in 2006 and 2007 seem indicate a drop in people who backed the MIHOP theory from about 11% to 4.6%. Traffic at 911blogger one of the most important "truther" sites dropped sharply from 2007 to 2008.

You didn't answer my question, would you collaborate with a white supremacist if you thought it would help get the word out about 9/11 and other "false flags"?

Edited by Len Colby
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  • 7 months later...
Guest Tom Scully

1946- William B. Macomber Jr. finishes wartime service as USMC officer serving in the OSS in Europe and in Burma,. Later, he officially is in CIA two years, then has a long career in the State Dept. Then C. Douglas Dillon appoints him to president of the NY Met. Museum of Art, a position he seems to have little qualification for. William is best man in GHW Bush's sister's 1946 wedding. He is best man in Thomas J. Devine's 1973 wedding. In 1960, he inquires about defectors and learns of Oswald's name. In 1972, he is sent to Haiti in haste to secure the release there of the kidnapped US ambassador. He witnesses's JFK's oath taking as a freshman senator, as a guest of Prescott Bush. He marries John Foster Dulles's personal secretary, Phylis Bernau.

1973- John D. Macomber, William's brother, and McKinsey and company partner, mentors new hire, Harvard MBA Michael L Ainslie. Both soon leave McKinsey, and John becomes president of Celanese Corp. He hires Thomas J. Devine as V.P. and Devine is quickly promoted to V.P. and controller at Celanese. John has a myriad of connections after 20 years at McKinsey, and later he provides a total of $172,500 in capital, along with William Draper III, to Bush's son George W's unprofitable oil ventures. GHW Bush, as US president, rewards both John and Draper with high level appointments. in the mid 90's, John and Michael Ainslie become high ranking directors at Lehman, serving respectively on the executive compensation and audit committees when Lehman suddenly imploded in Sept., 2008. Both are named as defendants in ongoing lawsuits by stockholders.

In 1980, with seemingly little experience, aside from serving as an urban development aide in the NYC mayoral administration of Nancy Bush's wedding usher, John Lindsay, Michael Ainslie, age 36, is hired by chairman, CARLISLE H. HUMELSINE, as president of National Trust for Historic Preservation.

Somewhere after Sept., 1973, when Bush escorted Suzanne B. Hooker down the aisle to marry Ames Braga, and the mid 1980's, Michael Ainslie became Suzanne Hooker Ames's second husband. Braga was the son of B. Rionda Braga, the sugar magnate who shared his executive, Michael JP "Jack" Malone, (CIA asset AMPATRIN) with Bob Kleberg of the KIng ranch in Texas.

Kleberg's sister was the widow of a co-founder of Celeanese who had died in 1949. She was CEO of the King Ranch.

Kleberg, through Jack Malone, had purchased and financed the overhaul and operation of the WWII sub chaser, Vejana III, used covertly bv the CIA afainst Cuba in operation AMDENIM.

Ames Braga's father, B. Rionda Braga, was the first cousin of Placido Ervesun, who was married to Nina Osterman, sister of Valnetine "Vala" Osterman Byfield, wife of Ernest Byfield Jr. until her death in 1970. Ernest's mother Gladys Tariere, rented her 400 acres horse farm in Middleburg, VA to JFk as a weekend white house from late 1960 until early 1963. Byfield's father in Chicago created the Pump Room restaurant and hired and promoted Patrick Hoy who became close to Sidney Korshak and other prominent mob figures. Hoy was hired by Henry Crown in 1960 as General Dynamics VP.

Suzanne B. Hooker was escorted down the aisle in 1973 by Bush because she was the daughter of Bush's late schook roommate, Edward Gordon Hooker. Hooker went unmentioned in both memoirs later written by George and Barbara Bush. Maybe it was because Edward Hooker was the step-nephew and business partner of Oswald's best friend, George DeMohrenschildt, or...because the best man in Hooker's 1946 wedding was S. Willets Meyer, first cousing of Cord Meyer of the CIA. Bush's oil business partner in the 1950's, later his travel partner in an early 1969 trip to the warfront in Viet Nam, was Macomber's V.P. at Celanese, Thomas J. Devine, a former CIA agent who met with George DeMohrenschildt and Haitian banker Clemard Joseph Charles in May, 1963. Devine reported details of the meetings to CIA under the OP designations WUBRINY and WUSALINE.

The following is relevant to the comments I posted 8 months ago, at the top of page 14 of this thread:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...st&p=164643

Entirely by accident a few hours ago, I found that a Wiki pages author takes credit for creating pages on the topics of "Ernie Byfield (Sr.)", Byfield's "Pump Room" restaurant in Chicago where Irv Kupcinet held court nightly, in booth one, for nearly 50 years, and a third page, on the topic of "Carl H. Humelsine". This is the link to the author's Wiki pages:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:VirginiaProp

http://web.archive.org/web/20051111191732/...lfame_bios.html

ALUMNI HALL OF FAME MEMBERS

Since 1995, the Maryland Alumni Association has inducted distinguished alumni in the Alumni Hall of Fame in a ceremony that occurs once every five years. Each of the 51 Hall of Fame members has given something to society—....

...CARLISLE H. HUMELSINE

B.A. 1937

EDUCATION

INDUCTED APRIL 22, 1995

During World War II, Carlisle Humelsine reached the rank of full colonel at 29, earning the Distinguished Service Medal and the Bronze Star. Following the war, he spent six years at the State Department, serving four secretaries of state including Dean Acheson and John Foster Dulles. In 1958, he began a 27-year tenure as president, then chairman, of the Colonial Williamsburg Foundation. Under his leadership, Williamsburg became one of America’s most popular historical attractions. Humelsine was chairman of the National Trust for Historic Preservation; and a trustee for the National Geographic Society, the National Gallery and the Smithsonian Institution.

http://www.majesticdocuments.com/documents/pre1948.php

Secretary of State Marshall to President Truman, 25 September 1947 (116k)

http://www.majesticdocuments.com/pdf/marsh...an-25sept47.pdf

Secretary of State George C. Marshall to Carl Humelsine, 27 September 1947

http://www.majesticdocuments.com/pdf/marsh...ne-27sept47.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majestic_12

http://www.majesticdocuments.com/documents/pre1948.php

Secretary of State George C. Marshall to Carl Humelsine, 27 September 1947 (154k) Authenticity Meter: Medium-High Level

On 27 September 1947 George C. Marshall writes to his Executive secretary Carl Humelsine about the tragic consequences if the present rumors about New Mexico events are disclosed to the public. Humelsine is resistant to sign an agreement to remain quiet concerning these events because he has already heard about them through other sources. The memo states in part, "…(a) you are unwilling to commit yourself to any agreement regarding not communicating its contents to any other person in view of the fact that you felt you already knew certain of the things probably referred to in the memo, as suggested to you by seeing the security reference ‘MAJIC' and :D you could not feel that such a letter as this could have been addressed to you without the knowledge of the President…." This ozalid (early carbon duplication) printing process memo is authentic for the era and would be difficult to fake.

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=%22...1&scoring=a

Carlisle Humelsine, 73, Who Led Board of Colonial Williamsburg

By SUSAN HELLER ANDERSON

Published: Saturday, January 28, 1989

Carlisle H. Humelsine, former chairman of the Colonial Williamsburg Foundation, died of heart disease Wednesday at Williamsburg (Va.) Community Hospital. He was 73 years old and lived in Williamsburg.

Mr. Humelsine, who from 1973 to 1980 was also chairman of the National Trust for Historic Preservation, went to Williamsburg after seven years at the State Department, where he served as either deputy under secretary or assistant secretary to four Secretaries of State: James F. Byrnes, George C. Marshall, Dean Acheson and John Foster Dulles. He had served in World War II as an assistant to General Marshall, who was then Army Chief of Staff.

He resigned from the State Department in 1953 and joined Colonial Williamsburg, the restoration of the capital of colonial Virginia, as executive vice president. He became president of the foundation in 1958 and chairman in 1977, and retired in 1985. Under his leadership, Colonial Williamsburg increased attendance and widened the support it receives from philanthropies.

Mr. Humelsine, born in Hagerstown, Md., graduated from the University of Maryland. Among posts he held at various times were chairman of the Virginia Department of Conservation, president of the Virginia Museum of Fine Arts, vice president and trustee of the National Gallery of Art, trustee of the Mariners' Museum in Newport News, Va., director of the National Geographic Society and chairman of the American Revolution Bicentennial Commission....

ANDREOTTI STOPS AT WILLIAMSBURG

$3.95 - New York Times - Apr 17, 1973

There, Mr. Andreotti WaF greeted by Carlisle Humelsine, president of Colonial Williamsburg, the corporation through which the Rockefeller family has

Rockefeller Home Given

Pay-Per-View - Los Angeles Times - ProQuest Archiver - Apr 12, 1979

... 585 acres were willed to the historical town by the late John D. Rockefeller III, said Williamsburg's foundation board chairman Carlisle Humelsine. ...

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=joh...n&scoring=a

… ; Bride at S. James' of John DeWitt Macomber--Couple Attended by …

$3.95 - New York Times - Oct 22, 1955

Brother Is Best Man William B. IVfacomber Jr. was [best man for his brother. ... The New York Times Mr. and Mrs. John DeWitt Macomber after marriage ..

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=ell...&lnav=hist5

… Attended by Nine at Marriage in Glenville, Bonn., to Alexander...

$3.95 - New York Times - Oct 27, 1946

William Butts Macomber of Rochester, N. Y., was best man. The ushers were George H. W. and Jonathan James Bush, brothers of the bride; David A. and .John V. ...

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=Dav...&lnav=hist3

MISS NANCY BUSH BECOMES A BRIDE; She Is Attended by Nine at Marriage ...

$3.95 - New York Times - Oct 27, 1946

The ushers were George H. W. and Jonathan James Bush, brothers of the bride; David A. and .John V. Lindsay of New York; James L. Buckley of Sharon, ...

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=dev...&lnav=hist6

Alexandra Mills to Marry in April

$3.95 - New York Times - Jan 21, 1973

Mr. Devine is with Train, Cabot Associates, a company here. He is a member of the Brook and the Racquet and Tennis Club in New York.

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=wil...1&scoring=a

Miss Alexandra Mills Is Bride of TJ Devine

$3.95 - New York Times - Apr 15, 1973

William B. Macomber Jr., United States. Ambassador to Turkey, was best man. Mrs. Devine attended the Green Vale School in Glen Head, L. r., and graduated ..

...In the same year, 1973, William B. Macomber, Jr., served in Devine's wedding as his best man, and Macomber's brother, John, hired Devine ias a VP at Celanese Corp.:

(Devine's VP job at Celanese is quite a feat for a man who has left no record that I can find on the internet that he ever attended or graduated from a college or university. )...

http://books.google.com/books?lr=&um=1...nG=Search+Books

Journal of housing, Volume 37‎ - Page 285

National Association of Housing and Redevelopment Officials - Architecture - 1980

Michael L. Ainslie will assume the position of president of the National Trust

for ... He succeeds James Biddle, who announced plans to retire last year.

In making the announcement, Carlisle H. Humelsine, chairman of the Trust's

board, said in part: "...Mr. Ainslie, a highly-respected businessman with management,

marketing, real estate, fund-raising, and preservation experience, is uniquely qualified to

lead the Trust in its efforts to extend the preservation effort.

Ainslie now is senior vice president and chief operating officer of N-ReN

Corporation, a manufacturer of nitrogen fertilizer and industrial nitrogen products.

He holds an undergraduate degree from Vanderbilt and an MBA from Harvard.

For three years he worked as deputy director of Mayor Lindsay's Model Cities .

http://books.google.com/books?q=10021+Weal...nG=Search+Books

Guide to Private Fortunes, 1993‎ - Page 4

Margaret Maggard - Social Science - 1992 - 727 pages

...Wealth

Michael L. Ainslie owns two hundred shares of

stock in Sotheby's, which in May 1991 was estimated to be worth $10 million.

Ainslie's total compensation in 1990 from Sotheby's, including salary and stock

gains, was approximately $8.7 million.

Background

After working as a developer for Sea Pines, Inc.,

and as chief of a Cincinnati-based chemical manufacturer,

Michael Ainslie became president of the National Trust for Historic

Preservation in 1980.

For the four years he worked for the National Trust,

Ainslie initiated and found funding for community development and

restoration projects. He started the Inner City Ventures Fund,

providing up to $100000 for low income projects,

and also helped pass the 1981 Economic Recovery Tax Act,

which gives tax breaks to investors restoring National Register properties.

Family

Michael Ainslie is divorced from his first wife, Lucy (Scardino) Ainslie;

they have one son, Michael Loren. Ainslie is currently married to Suzanne H.

(Braga) Ainslie; he is stepfather to her three children:...

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=hoo...1&scoring=a

Miss Suzanne B. Hooker Married to Ames Braga

- New York Times - Sep 14, 1973

... of Miss Suzanne Butler Hooker, a junior at Barnard College, to Ames Braga, ... George H. W. Bush, chair of the Republican National Committee, escorted ...

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/p...entary#comments

Lehman Brothers Board of Directors- Have They Been Fitted for Orange Jumpsuits Yet?

By Hussein The Hope Monger - Nov 13th, 2008

Michael L. Ainslie

Director

Private Investor and Former President and Chief Executive Officer of Sotheby's Holdings

Mr. Ainslie, a private investor, is the former president, chief executive officer and a director of Sotheby's Holdings. He was chief executive officer of Sotheby's from 1984 to 1994. From 1980 to 1984, he was president and chief executive officer of the National Trust for Historic Preservation. From 1975 to 1980, he was chief operating officer of N-Ren Corp., a Cincinnati-based chemical manufacturer. From 1971 to 1975, he was president of Palmas Del Mar, a real estate development company. He began his career as an associate with McKinsey & Company. Mr. Ainslie is a director of The St. Joe Company and Lehman Brothers Bank, FSB. He is a trustee of Vanderbilt University and a member (and the chairman emeritus) of the Board of Directors of The Posse Foundation, Inc. Mr. Ainslie has been a director of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. since 1996, and serves as a member of the Audit Committee.

John D. Macomber

Director

Principal of JDM Investment Group

Mr. Macomber has been a principal of JDM Investment Group, a private investment firm, since 1992. He was chairman and president of the Export-Import Bank of the United States from 1989 to 1992, chairman and chief executive officer of Celanese Corporation from 1973 to 1986 and a senior partner at McKinsey & Company from 1954 to 1973. Mr. Macomber is a director of Collexis Holdings, Inc. and Stewart & Stevenson LLC. He is chairman of the Council for Excellence in Government and vice chairman of the Atlantic Council. He is a trustee of the Carnegie Institution of Washington and the Folger Library. Mr. Macomber has been a director of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. since 1994. He serves as a member of the Compensation and Benefits Committee, the Executive Committee, and the Nominating and Corporate Governance Committee.

....In between my two Mary Ferrell links in my old post quoted below, I had inserted a link to this document:

3768659684_4b5737b120_o.jpg

In view of what we now know about William Butts Macomber Jr.; that he was a close friend of Prescott Bush, his son-in-law Alexander Ellis, Bush cousin Harry Walker, and of Thomas J. Devine, it seems even more important to point out that he was aware of Oswald's name and background in 1960. Macomber either commissioned the "survey" of defection statistics, or was one of a small group of principals who requested it. Doesn't it seem convenient, in the scheme of the subsequent chain of events, that this "study" was undertaken?

Joan Mellen wrote about the background of the document displayed above, but did not mention Macomber's name in her essay, only in her notes:

http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/...Sheridan_Oswald

Otto Otepka, Robert F. Kennedy, Walter Sheridan, and Lee Oswald

by Joan Mellen, 4 Sep 2007

.....Otepka at first believed that his ordeal was based on his having denied security clearances to some Kennedy appointees. This was not the case. Rather, his removal from authority was based upon his development of a file relating to one “Lee Oswald, tourist,” a name on a list of “defectors.” The quotation marks were added by the CIA itself for an October 24, 1960 document that marks the beginning of Otto Otepka’s investigation of Lee Harvey Oswald.

“DEFECTORS”

It began that October, 1960, even before John F. Kennedy was elected. Several offices at the Department of State undertook to identify and research a list of Americans who had defected to the Soviet Union, to Soviet bloc nations, or to Communist China. The assignment to check on Oswald, and to explore whether his name appeared in any existing security files, came to Otepka as chief security evaluator at State. Otepka contacted the FBI at once. This was routine. The CIA was next on his list.

At the Department of State’s “Office of Intelligence/Resources and Coordination,” Robert B. Elwood wrote to Richard Bissell, CIA’s then DDP [Deputy Director, Plans, a designation synonymous with the clandestine service]. The subject of his letter was “Request For Information Concerning American ‘Defectors.’” The quotation marks raise an implied question: were they really defectors or were they American agents introduced into the Soviet Union working for CIA Counter Intelligence?

It became a variation on La Ronde. The files danced from Agency to Agency, component to component. Bissell shipped the file to James Angleton at Counter Intelligence and to Robert L. Bannerman, Deputy Chief of the Office of Security at CIA. Bannerman sent Oswald’s name back to Otto Otepka. “It would all have gone through Angleton,” Bannerman told retired military intelligence officer and author, John Newman.

Beginning on June 1, 1960, Oswald’s background and file began to be examined by employees in the Office of Security at the State Department. On December 5th, 1960, the Intelligence Collection and Distribution Division informed Otepka that he and the Office of Security would handle the official list of Americans who had defected to the Communist bloc. By now, John F. Kennedy had been elected President, but had not yet taken office.

Otepka began the work of determining whether “Lee Oswald” had bearing on any existing security case, either of an applicant for a position with the State Department, or of an existing employee. As he would any file, Otepka distributed the one bearing the name “Oswald” to his subordinates, eight or ten people, he told me, whose work he would then review. He sent Oswald’s name over to the Bureau of Soviet Affairs. It seemed to be all a matter of routine.

Oswald’s file was marked #39-61981. Sitting as it did in the Central File Room of the Office of Security, the “39” denoting an “Intelligence File,” the Oswald material raised questions. As the months passed, more questions surfaced. Otepka examined Oswald’s return from the Soviet Union with the unlikely assistance of a State Department loan. Otepka also pondered the speed with which Oswald’s wife, Marina, was cleared for entrance into the United States. By 1963, Otepka would be wondering why Oswald was issued a passport for travel to Cuba and, seemingly, the Soviet Union, despite a possible “criminal” flag in Oswald’s ONI [Office of Naval Intelligence] file. It was at this time that Otepka’s security safe was burgled and his Oswald file disappeared for good.

BOBBY KENNEDY MEETS OTTO F. OTEPKA, DECEMBER 1960 ......

NOTES....

--Document id number: 1993.06.10.18:04:90000. JFK 201-289248. OSW 12. Vol/Folder V53B. Title: Comparative Statistics Concerning Bloc and US Defectors. 9/23/60. Who from: Richard D. Gatewood, IRC/STATE. Whoto: William B. Macomber, Jr. /State. NARA.

Just a coincidental, quirk of fate that it can be established, to a much greater degree than much of the "stuff" posted in other threads on this forum, that Thomas J. Devine's "best man", was interested in/aware of L H Oswald, by name, as far back as in 1960?
http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=ale...=1&ie=UTF-8

Miss Alexandra Mills Is Bride of TJ Devine

- New York Times - Apr 15, 1973

Miss Alexandra Mills, daughter of Mr. and Mrs. Samuel Wynne Mills of Locust ... William B. Macomber Jr., United States. Ambassador to Turkey, was best man. ...

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=ale...=1&ie=UTF-8

Alexandra Mills to Marry in April

- New York Times - Jan 21, 1973

... Miss Alexandra Mills, to Thomas James Devine of New York, son of the late Mr. and Mrs. ... Mr. Devine is with Train, Cabot Associates, a company here. ...

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/servlet/...tation=portrait

Page 2

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=3

It is a big country, but so often, I am struck by how small and concentrated the circle is/was....the WC appointees, then, Bush father and son, elected Prez or VP, five times, between them, in elections of 1980 through 2004....

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=two...=1&ie=UTF-8

DULLES UNDER KNIFE 2 1/2 HRS.

Pay-Per-View - Chicago Tribune - ProQuest Archiver - Nov 4, 1956

A dip- assistant, William B. Macomber and two other aids, and Allan Dulles, brother and head of the central intelli. genre agency, also were pres- ent.

Responding to Len's question in his post below; my point is that maybe if we can link enough coincidences to the core group I named above...the Bushes, Macombers, Hookers, Byfields, Crowns, Devine, Demohrenschildt, a conspiracy that resulted in the deaths of JFK and possibly, RFK, too, the evidence of conspiracy won't be dismissed as a series of unconnected coincidences. Who benefited most, coincidentally, by JFK's death, financially and politically? Who perceived themselves to have lost the most, blaming JFK for not using the US military to take back the private assets appropriated by Castro? Who was humiliated by RFK pushing back against McCarthy/Cohn? Who owned the hotel where RFK was killed, and employed armed security officers present in the area where he was shot? Why do you think William Macomber was such a popular best man? How is it that the two Bushes are the only father and son US presidents? Was it their looks, money, or their popularity....maybe their honesty and concern for the average American?

Edited by Tom Scully
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Responding to Len's question in his post below; my point is that maybe if we can link enough coincidences to the core group I named above...the Bushes, Macombers, Hookers, Byfields, Crowns, Devine, Demohrenschildt, a conspiracy that resulted in the deaths of JFK and possibly, RFK, too, the evidence of conspiracy won't be dismissed as a series of unconnected coincidences.

KISS ("keep it simple stupid")is best approach, your post was like John Nash's flow charts extended to War and Peace like length . If you are willing to take into account enough "degrees of separation" you can always find a few coincidences. Can you list the top 3 or 4 you think are most telling

How is it that the two Bushes are the only father and son US presidents?

1) They weren't

2) Other than Bush Jr and JQ Adams How many sons of presidents seriously pursued politics?

3) Why is this relevant?

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