Gerald Blaine The Kennedy Detail Clint Hill book- JFK Requested Bodyguards to Back Off

[David Von Pein]

Palamara calls what happened in Dallas—the altering of the motorcycle formation and cutting it in half, and the removal of agents from standing on the rear of the car—“security stripping”. This clearly resulted in the assassins having a much better opportunity to hit their target than if the proper procedures had been followed. No surprise, Bugliosi apparently did not think any of this was important in discussing Secret Service complicity in the assassination.

The whole Secret Service topic is total nonsense, mainly because we know (and can prove) that the security for President Kennedy's motorcade on November 22nd, 1963, in Dallas, Texas, was absolutely no different in any substantial way from other pre-11/22/63 motorcades that Mr. Kennedy rode in during his 1,037 days as the 35th U.S. Chief Executive.

Vince Palamara is constantly making a huge deal out of the fact that the SS agents did not continuously ride on the back bumpers of JFK's limousine in Dallas (and particularly, of course, in Dealey Plaza).

But the SS configuration in Dealey Plaza was no different than many other pre-Nov. 22 parades, as these photos amply demonstrate (and JFK is even STANDING UP in these first two examples--making himself an even bigger target in the limousine--and there's no SS agents riding the back bumpers at all; so much for the crap about the Dallas motorcade being completely different than other JFK caravans):

Two more "No Agents On The Bumper" examples:

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc151/David_Von_Pein/MISCELLANEOUS%20JFK-RELATED%20PHOTOS/JFKMotorcade.jpg

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc151/David_Von_Pein/MISCELLANEOUS%20JFK-RELATED%20PHOTOS/JFKMotorcade3.jpg

And I can dig up about half-a-dozen other examples of photos showing NO AGENTS AT ALL riding the bumper of JFK's car while Kennedy was riding in his open limousine.

So, does Vince Palamara think that the plot was so sophisticated and elaborate so as to have the SS agents avoiding JFK's bumper in many PRE-Nov. 22 motorcades, just to make it SEEM like the security was no different at all in Dallas? Obviously, nobody can believe such a nonsensical thing.

Therefore, the "Secret Service Was To Blame" argument goes absolutely nowhere, and proves nothing, just like all other speculative theories introduced by hundreds of conspiracy promoters worldwide since 1963.

And, btw, the agent with the flailing arms at Love Field has got to be Henry Rybka, and not Donald Lawton.

How can we know?

Because of CE2554 and Rybka's OWN SIGNED STATEMENT regarding what he did at Love Field on 11/22/63. He specifically stated that it was HE (not Lawton or any other agent) who was positioned to the right-rear of JFK's limo just as the cars started to roll. So Palamara got that one right, and Gerald Blaine must be incorrect:

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh25/html/WC_Vol25_0409a.htm

And there is, of course, no reason under the sun for the U.S. Secret Service (or anyone else) to want to fake Rybka's signed report that appears above in Warren Commission volume 25.

If some conspiracy theorist can come up with a good reason for someone to want to switch around the names of the agents (Rybka and Lawton) on those official Secret Service reports, I'd sure like to hear it. Because it makes no sense to want to fake such peripheral documents and start fiddling with the names of the agents on those reports.

Therefore, logically, Henry Rybka is the shrugging agent seen here:

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc151/David_Von_Pein/MISCELLANEOUS%20JFK-RELATED%20PHOTOS/RybkaLoveField11-22-63.jpg

Edited November 16, 2010 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

Oh, goodie! Now DiEugenio is adding the US Secret Service to his list of liars and cover-up operatives. Lovely.

Next week -- Actors Gregory Peck and Richard Basehart are going to be part of DiEugenio's cover-up. After all, each man narrated an "Oswald Did It Alone" documentary within one year of the assassination. So they must be lying charlatans.

No matter how many people have to be lying and part of the vast conspiracy--it's never enough for the DiEugenios of the world. They'll heap more liars onto the pile with each passing day.

Good case in point (recently) -- DiEugenio's dragging Buell Wesley Frazier down into the mud. And Linnie Mae Randle goes with him.

Was there anybody in the state of Texas who wasn't trying to nail poor schnook Oswald to the wall, Jimbo? Anybody at all?

And DiEugenio's "cherry-picking" remark regarding the four photos I presented above is beyond laughable. Those pictures PROVE (for all time) that Palamara is wrong regarding the "agents riding the bumpers" rule he loves to prop up so much. But Jimbo calls it "cherry picking". Beautiful.

And Jimbo's Hawaii remark is a bladder-buster too. I guess the SS should have stayed home altogether when Kennedy went to the Aloha state, huh Jim? Nobody owns a gun in that whole state, eh?

Edited November 16, 2010 by David Von Pein

[Doug Weldon]

Palamara calls what happened in Dallas—the altering of the motorcycle formation and cutting it in half, and the removal of agents from standing on the rear of the car—“security stripping”. This clearly resulted in the assassins having a much better opportunity to hit their target than if the proper procedures had been followed. No surprise, Bugliosi apparently did not think any of this was important in discussing Secret Service complicity in the assassination.

The whole Secret Service topic is total nonsense, mainly because we know (and can prove) that the security for President Kennedy's motorcade on November 22nd, 1963, in Dallas, Texas, was absolutely no different in any substantial way from other pre-11/22/63 motorcades that Mr. Kennedy rode in during his 1,037 days as the 35th U.S. Chief Executive.

Vince Palamara is constantly making a huge deal out of the fact that the SS agents did not continuously ride on the back bumpers of JFK's limousine in Dallas (and particularly, of course, in Dealey Plaza).

But the SS configuration in Dealey Plaza was no different than many other pre-Nov. 22 parades, as these photos amply demonstrate (and JFK is even STANDING UP in these first two examples--making himself an even bigger target in the limousine--and there's no SS agents riding the back bumpers at all; so much for the crap about the Dallas motorcade being completely different than other JFK caravans):

Two more "No Agents On The Bumper" examples:

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc151/David_Von_Pein/MISCELLANEOUS%20JFK-RELATED%20PHOTOS/JFKMotorcade.jpg

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc151/David_Von_Pein/MISCELLANEOUS%20JFK-RELATED%20PHOTOS/JFKMotorcade3.jpg

And I can dig up about half-a-dozen other examples of photos showing NO AGENTS AT ALL riding the bumper of JFK's car while Kennedy was riding in his open limousine.

So, does Vince Palamara think that the plot was so sophisticated and elaborate so as to have the SS agents avoiding JFK's bumper in many PRE-Nov. 22 motorcades, just to make it SEEM like the security was no different at all in Dallas? Obviously, nobody can believe such a nonsensical thing.

Therefore, the "Secret Service Was To Blame" argument goes absolutely nowhere, and proves nothing, just like all other speculative theories introduced by hundreds of conspiracy promoters worldwide since 1963.

And, btw, the agent with the flailing arms at Love Field has got to be Henry Rybka, and not Donald Lawton.

How can we know?

Because of CE2554 and Rybka's OWN SIGNED STATEMENT regarding what he did at Love Field on 11/22/63. He specifically stated that it was HE (not Lawton or any other agent) who was positioned to the right-rear of JFK's limo just as the cars started to roll. So Palamara got that one right, and Gerald Blaine must be incorrect:

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh25/html/WC_Vol25_0409a.htm

And there is, of course, no reason under the sun for the U.S. Secret Service (or anyone else) to want to fake Rybka's signed report that appears above in Warren Commission volume 25.

If some conspiracy theorist can come up with a good reason for someone to want to switch around the names of the agents (Rybka and Lawton) on those official Secret Service reports, I'd sure like to hear it. Because it makes no sense to want to fake such peripheral documents and start fiddling with the names of the agents on those reports.

Therefore, logically, Henry Rybka is the shrugging agent seen here:

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc151/David_Von_Pein/MISCELLANEOUS%20JFK-RELATED%20PHOTOS/RybkaLoveField11-22-63.jpg

David:

There were many differences in protocol by the Secret Service in Dallas. In MIDP I even name the person from the Protective SWervices Division who was responsible for seeing that storm drains were sealed and windows closed in Dallas. One of the key differences was placing the press bus way back of the motorcade. As you can see in your top picture the press bus is very close to Kennedy's limo. Also note a third person in the front seat. Blaine's book emphasizes that it was Lawton, not Rybka, shrugging. In doing so he is able to innocently explain Rybka's puzzlement while, in fact, there appears to be much more to it. John Tunheim said that the Secret Service was the least cooperative of any agency the AARB dealt with. They continued to destroy records as they were being ordered to turn them over to the AARB. The records of the previous motorcades in the weeks before the assassination were supposedly destroyed. After the publication of "The Dark Side of Camelot" agents and former agents were given a hush order. To suggest that all of the SS agents were enamored with Kennedy is simply an effort to create a whitewash. I have friends who have been or who were part of the SS, FBI, and DEA. I have interviewed many of the officers in the motorcade in Dallas. They either maintain silence or are very critical of the security in Dallas.

Best,

Doug Weldon

[David Von Pein]

The "all windows closed" junk is nonsense too. Just look at how many times THAT (supposed) rule was broken during JFK's administration--on every motorcade I've ever seen in pictures -- including that Hawaii picture, plus Ireland, plus Florida, etc.

That's just one more example of the Dallas parade being no different whatsoever from other motorcades.

And the "press buses were in the back" is another silly one, particularly when we know that a network TV cameraman (Dave Wiegman) DID film the scene of the murder before Kennedy's car even cleared the Underpass. SS-100-X is even visible in Wiegman's film! And Mal Couch filmed the scene too. So it's not like there were no cameras rolling on Elm Street. There were.

Bottom Line -- Even with tighter SS security on Elm Street, nobody could have prevented Lee Harvey Oswald from shooting JFK -- unless Clint Hill and John Ready had decided to become a human shield and hover over Kennedy's body during those eight seconds in Dealey.

[Doug Weldon]

The "all windows closed" junk is nonsense too. Just look at how many times THAT (supposed) rule was broken during JFK's administration--on every motorcade I've ever seen in pictures -- including that Hawaii picture, plus Ireland, plus Florida, etc.

That's just one more example of the Dallas parade being no different whatsoever from other motorcades.

And the "press buses were in the back" is another silly one, particularly when we know that a network TV cameraman (Dave Wiegman) DID film the scene of the murder before Kennedy's car even cleared the Underpass. SS-100-X is even visible in Wiegman's film! And Mal Couch filmed the scene too. So it's not like there were no cameras rolling on Elm Street. There were.

Bottom Line -- Even with tighter SS security on Elm Street, nobody could have prevented Lee Harvey Oswald from shooting JFK -- unless Clint Hill and John Ready had decided to become a human shield and hover over Kennedy's body during those eight seconds in Dealey.

David:

Why did the SS feel it was necessary to destroy their records on th motorcades just prior to Dallas? The press bus was moved to the back for the Dallas motorcade. It is not simply a question of filming. It is a question of witnessing. Nobody is suggesting that anyone tried to prevent any photos or filming in Dealey Plaza. The buildings were to be checked and there was to be no non law enforcement people on the overpass. Actually, it IS EXACTLY THE DUTY of Secret Service Agents to be HUMAN SHIELDS. Ready was called back as he started to move to the limo after the first shots. Please see my chapter in MIDP how the third person was removed from the front seat and the reason that was given. I believe this created the opportunity for a shot to be fired through the front of the windshield from the south knoll area to hit Kennedy in the front. You are entrenched in your position and I am not going to pretend that any amount of evidence I present is going to persuade you any differently. You are entitled to your own opinion but not to your own facts. BTW, I also agree that Four Days in November is a great film. Also, if you know my background, you will know that I did not seek nor did I want to find the evidence that I did. I simply cannot ignore it or call so many witnesses mistaken or lying. I wanted to resist the conclusions I was forced to reach. Unless you have sat down with and/or discussed the case with many of the witnesses you cannot understand what happened in Dallas in the same way. History is the myth that people choose to believe. Believe as you will.

Best,

Doug Weldon

[Bernice Moore]

''The "all windows closed" junk is nonsense too. Just look at how many times THAT (supposed) rule was broken during JFK's administration--on every motorcade I've ever seen in pictures -- including that Hawaii picture, plus Ireland, plus Florida, etc.

That's just one more example of the Dallas parade being no different whatsoever from other motorcades.

And the "press buses were in the back" is another silly one, particularly when we know that a network TV cameraman (Dave Wiegman) DID film the scene of the murder before Kennedy's car even cleared the Underpass. SS-100-X is even visible in Wiegman's film! And Mal Couch filmed the scene too. So it's not like there were no cameras rolling on Elm Street. There were.

quote; ''Bottom Line -- Even with tighter SS security on Elm Street, nobody could have prevented Lee Harvey Oswald from shooting JFK -- unless Clint Hill and John Ready had decided to become a human shield and hover over Kennedy's body during those eight seconds in Dealey''.

That was Kellerman's job at the first sign of trouble, which he did not do, as it was driver's Greer's job to immediately take precautionary diversionary tactics in his driving which he did not fulfill either..ps...within vinces's work is the information that rybka was a young ss agent, who had just returned from ss retraining...and it was he that was appointed to be jfk's shadow that day in the motorcade.,,in otherwards he was young, sharp, and just completed a retraining course, of course they left the best behind..but they made sure they took the hungovers along......b

[/quote]

Edited November 16, 2010 by Bernice Moore

[Bernice Moore]

I will wager that Rybka was not getting bombed at Kirkwood's the night before until three am.

Nor did he contribute to the fund to pay the local firemen to take the partygoers' place at the hotel.

Still waiting for your comments on that one Davey.

I mean the next day was just an average one anyway right? Why not tie one on, eh?

Jim also; ''One thing that does sort of jump out of the SS report on the drinking is that the one group of agents not participating were Johnson's detail, headed by Youngblood.'' b

[Bernice Moore]

:oRowley on ss drinking w/c..b

Edited November 16, 2010 by Bernice Moore

[Bernice Moore]

:(SS drinking article; b jim you and will notice this is conveniently when the first mention, to help cover butts, was made of jfk requesting they stay off the back of the limo...they were very quick in covering said butts and the media of course complied in not checking or researching what was being issued to them, b

Edited November 16, 2010 by Bernice Moore

[Doug Weldon]

former Chief U.E. Baughman, who had served under JFK from Election Night 1960 until Sept. 1961, had written in his 1962 book “Secret Service Chief”: "Now the Chief of the Secret Service is legally empowered to countermand a decision made by anybody in this country if it might endanger the life or limb of the Chief Executive. This means I could veto a decision of the President himself if I decided it would be dangerous not to. The President of course knew this fact." Indeed, an AP story from 11/15/63 stated: “The (Secret) Service can overrule even the President where his personal security is involved.“To the point, when Baughman was asked by U.S. News & World report on 12/23/63 about the Service’s protective efforts in Dallas, he said: “I can’t understand why Mrs. Kennedy had to climb over the back of the car, as she did, to get help…[this matter] should be resolved.” Apparently, Baughman was puzzled by the lack of agents on or near the rear of the limousine.

I wish to join in the chorus of those who thank Vince Palamara for his work on this case over very many years. Vince dedicated the best years of his young life to shedding light on a most important question: Why did the Secret Service allow the assassination of JFK to happen?

I first heard Vince speak about the Secret Service at the Third Decade conference in Fredonia, in the great state of New York, in the Summer of 1991. I predicted then that Vince's work would be a major factor in solving this case, and I repeat that prediction now, almost 20 years later. Of course Justice cannot now be done, in the strict sense of imprisoning the real perpetrators, but it is never too late for the Truth.

At that Fredonia conference everyone was excited about press reports that Oliver Stone was making a major movie about the assassination. Looking back now I say it is a great pity that Stone tried to glorify a self-aggrandizing exploiter like Garrison, instead of waiting a few years to make a movie about Vince.

Vince has his faults, I imagine, as do we all, but in my opinion he is a truly great American and a real credit to his Alma Mater, Duquesne University. If this country had not been fxxxed up so badly by the JFK assassination, Vince's book would have been carefully edited and published by a major publishing house, and Vince would already be a household name and an international celebrity. Indeed, if Duquesne University itself had not been fxxxed up by the assassination, Vince would have been the keynote speaker at their 2003 conference. Instead, the keynote speakers were Cyril Wecht, repeating for the umpteenth time that the magic bullet is bullwax, and Wecht's good friend Arlen Specter, repeating for the umpteenth time that the magic bullet is fact. Meanwhile, Vince Palamara sat silenced in the audience.

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/v4n1.html

Vince tried to become a speaker at the 2003 conference but his proposal was rejected by Wecht. I believe the reason he was given was that it was not a scientific presentation. Vince has made tremendous contributions to the understanding of the assassination. His book should have been published by a major publisher.

Doug Weldon

[David Von Pein]

Thanks for admitting your comparison was Hawaii.

My photo comparison wasn't ONLY Hawaii. I provided FOUR different pictures from FOUR different motorcades. Why in the world do you think they ALL depict JFK in Hawaii? They don't. And I can provide several more examples from still more cities.

And what difference does it make what CITY he's in? He was still going to receive the same SS protection in each city--whether it was Honolulu or Walla Walla.

Do you think the SS was "standing down" in Hawaii, Jim? If not, then where are the SS agents on the back of the car that Palamara is always insisting should always be there?

Edited November 16, 2010 by David Von Pein

[Bernice Moore]

here's Berlin,where they knew how to position to protect, along the sides and front were their famous white mice motorcycle police protection squad...as well as us ss on the back...

[Bernice Moore]

:ph34r:Now here is a newspaper about the presidential visit and the concerns, then a photo of the crowds they were running into on main street in dallas that day, now think about it for one second, the only ss agent that moved to the back of the limo at all that afternoon was one, who was protecting jackie, by the name of clint hill..that dog don't hunt ..

[Bernice Moore]

i oopsed forgot the attachments couldn't find full edit... so here they are pretend they are attached above, sorry bout that. ..b

Edited November 16, 2010 by Bernice Moore

[J. Raymond Carroll]

Vince tried to become a speaker at the 2003 conference but his proposal was rejected by Wecht. I believe the reason he was given was that it was not a scientific presentation.

My proposal was also rejected, because I argued that Lee Oswald was innocent. Instead, Joan Mellon was chosen to speak about her hero-worship of Jim Garrison, and Arlen Spector was invited to defend the indefensible. No wonder this remains an unsolved case.