Craig Lamson Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Disprove the statement. Uh John, you made an extraordinary claim, its YOUR job to back it up, which you have failed to do. But lets start here...show us proof that the buildings fell from the bottom UP! Witnesses inside the north tower reported a massive explosion in the sub basement at the moment of, or several seconds before, the impact of the plane. The Naudet brothers video documentary of the events shows massive damage to the ground floor lobby, with all the glass being blown out, and the tiles being knocked off the walls. The official explanation for the lobby damage is that burning jet fuel raced down the elevator shafts and caused the explosion, but there was only one express elevator shaft in the north tower that connected from the ground floor to the level of the plane's impact. All the other elevator shafts were staggered, most extending to only about the 40th floor, and I believe one or two going as far as the 70th floor. The alleged hijacked plane, American Airlines flight 11, impacted above the 90th floor. WTC maintenance man, William Rodriguez, was in one of the sub-basement offices with about 14 other people when a huge explosion erupted in one of the sub-basement levels just beneath them, causing the walls to crack, and the ceiling to cave in. A fellow worker came running up from the floor below where Rodriguez and the others had heard the explosion screaming "Explosion! Explosion!", with the skin hanging off his arms, and with "pieces of his face missing." Another WTC employee, Mike Peccarello, was talking to a co-worker in the sub-basement level when the lights went on and off, and assuming another terrorist attack like the one in 93, began to ascend to the ground floor to see what was going on. As they got to the level of the machine shop, they saw a several ton piece of machinery blown completely across the room, and a fire door "crumpled up like a piece of aluminum foil." How could burning jet fuel, igniting at the 90th floor or above, have been the cause of all of this? The Lamont Doherty Earth Observatory seismograph recorded seismic spikes 14 seconds before the official time of plane impact on the north tower, and 17 seconds before the time of impact on the south tower. This discrepancy in time between the seismographic spikes recorded at the L.D.E.O., and the official time of plane impacts, has still not been satisfactorily explained. And its YOUR contention that this was the result of a NUKE...and the buildings stood for an hour? Please. Your brain has popped a breaker. This Finnish website explains the use of SMALL NUCLEAR DEVICES at various levels of the WTC buildings: http://www.saunalahti.fi/wtc2001/evidence.htm The Finnish site has numerous pages. Go to all of them. Home page: http://www.saunalahti.fi/wtc2001/evidence.htm Follow the evidence. Jack Sigh...YOU folow the evidence...you might note that ALL of the evidence of value ( and you might also note that all fo the eviidece of the "truth movement" has NO VALUE) points to airliners and fire as the cause of the building failures. But why should we NOT expect you and your ilk to find such junk compelling...hell you claim to be a "photo expert" and yet you cannot understand what happens to a photograph when the photographer moves the camera. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Smith Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 And its YOUR contention that this was the result of a NUKE...and the buildings stood for an hour? Please. Your brain has popped a breaker. I don't know if the sub-basement explosions were nuclear or conventional. My guess is that "they" were softening up the lower part of the structure for the planned coup de grace that was scheduled to take place a little later that morning. The lower part of the tower, near the foundation, was even more robustly constructed than the upper levels, because it had to bear the weight of all the steel and concrete comprising the building above it. That is why "they" had explosives detonate in the sub-basement level, near the moment of impact. Someone apparently miscalculated, and the explosions detonated several seconds before the impact near the 90th floor. This accounts for the 14 second discrepancy between the L.D.E.O. seismograph spike at 8:46 and 26 seconds, and the official impact time of 8:46 and 40 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Lamson Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 And its YOUR contention that this was the result of a NUKE...and the buildings stood for an hour? Please. Your brain has popped a breaker. I don't know if the sub-basement explosions were nuclear or conventional. My guess is that "they" were softening up the lower part of the structure for the planned coup de grace that was scheduled to take place a little later that morning. The lower part of the tower, near the foundation, was even more robustly constructed than the upper levels, because it had to bear the weight of all the steel and concrete comprising the building above it. That is why "they" had explosives detonate in the sub-basement level, near the moment of impact. Someone apparently miscalculated, and the explosions detonated several seconds before the impact near the 90th floor. This accounts for the 14 second discrepancy between the L.D.E.O. seismograph spike at 8:46 and 26 seconds, and the official impact time of 8:46 and 40 seconds. Oh please...engage your brain. There is no "official" impact time. The discrepancy is an illusion. Of course its the perfect CT illusion based on smopke and mirror...kind of like the crap WHite produces and all of you dunderheads fall for. "Softening up" the lower levels serves no one. The buildings FELL FROM THE TOP DOWN. Sheesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Smith Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Insults. Not persuasive - sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Heagney Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 But he still makes a cogent point: both buildings fell from the top down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Smith Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 But he still makes a cogent point: both buildings fell from the top down. Of course they fell from the top down. No one is saying that explosions in the basements brought the towers done from the bottom up. The basement explosions were to weaken the lower support columns making it easier to bring the entire structure down to ground level when they initiated the demolition from the area of the impact zone near the 90th floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Colby Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Witnesses inside the north tower reported a massive explosion in the sub basement at the moment of, or several seconds before, the impact of the plane. - This is deceptive the witnesses are Rodriguez, who you mentioned separately, and his coworkers. They only said this after getting involved in a multi-billion dollar lawsuit against Bush, Silverstein, PNAC and about a dozen other defendants. As noted elsewhere on this forum Rodriguez’s story changed he was interview on Sept. 11 or 12 and said nothing about and explosion from below or an explosion that preceded impact. http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11/new.york.terror/ - Strange that no one else of the tens of thousands of survivors has reported anything similar “The Naudet brothers video documentary of the events shows massive damage to the ground floor lobby, with all the glass being blown out, and the tiles being knocked off the walls. The official explanation for the lobby damage is that burning jet fuel raced down the elevator shafts and caused the explosion, but there was only one express elevator shaft in the north tower that connected from the ground floor to the level of the plane's impact. All the other elevator shafts were staggered, most extending to only about the 40th floor, and I believe one or two going as far as the 70th floor. The alleged hijacked plane, American Airlines flight 11, impacted above the 90th floor.” - No there were 2 express elevators and at least one freight elevator that went from the lobbies to impact zone - The 911 Commission reported explosions reported a few explosions including one on the 77th floor an another on the B4 level below Rodriguez. http://www.faqs.org/docs/911/911Report-302.html - There were about 25 express elevators to the 78th floor “WTC maintenance man, William Rodriguez, was in one of the sub-basement offices with about 14 other people when a huge explosion erupted in one of the sub-basement levels just beneath them, causing the walls to crack, and the ceiling to cave in. A fellow worker came running up from the floor below where Rodriguez and the others had heard the explosion screaming "Explosion! Explosion!", with the skin hanging off his arms, and with "pieces of his face missing." ” - Odd then that only 3 or 4 have come forward and only months after fact contradicting their earlier statements (see above) - According to Rodriguez his burning co-worker came running out of a freight elevator. (see CNN link above) - I’ve read a few of Rodriguez’s ever evolving accounts where did he say the ceiling caved in? “Another WTC employee, Mike Peccarello, was talking to a co-worker in the sub-basement level when the lights went on and off, and assuming another terrorist attack like the one in 93, began to ascend to the ground floor to see what was going on.” - Pecoraro (the correct spelling) said he didn’t notice the lights flickering or his grinder stop. He and his co-worker were in the 6th level subbasement about where Rodriguez months (or years) after the attack said be felt the massive explosion coming from. Pecoraro said nothing about any damage to the room they were in nor him or his co-worker feeling or hearing anything (he {am perhaps his co-worker} was using hearing protection because Pecoraro was using a grinder to smooth steel welds). - They ascend the stairs because the room they were in began to fill with smoke and their boss on the 88th floor said there had been a “loud explosion’ and the building had shaken. He said they “smelled kerosene” jet fuel is a derivative of kerosene. There was NO mention of the ’93 attack in that part of his account. “a several ton piece of machinery blown completely across the room, and a fire door "crumpled up like a piece of aluminum foil." How could burning jet fuel, igniting at the 90th floor or above, have been the cause of all of this?” - He said it was “a 50 ton hydraulic press” that is the amount of pressure it could produce not how much it weighed. A similar press of eBay is said to weight 610 pounds [ http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/50-TON-HYDRAULIC-SHOP-PRESS-WELDED-FRAME-USA-MADE_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ63700QQihZ015QQitemZ250013021625 ] - He said it was “gone” not “blown completely across the room” he said the ceiling had come down. [Pecoraro’s account can be read here http://www.chiefengineer.org/article.cfm?seqnum1=1029 ] - Research “fuel-air explosions” they have been know to destroy entire buildings so one small room is not hard to imagine. IIRC this was floor where it is believed there was a fuel explosion. (see 911 Commission link above). - No one said fuel ignited in the impact zone caused this damage. It is believed the fuel went down the shafts and then ignited. “The Lamont Doherty Earth Observatory seismograph recorded seismic spikes 14 seconds before the official time of plane impact on the north tower, and 17 seconds before the time of impact on the south tower. This discrepancy in time between the seismographic spikes recorded at the L.D.E.O., and the official time of plane impacts, has still not been satisfactorily explained.” This “discrepancy” was only brought up a few months ago. Could it be that the clock at L.D.E.O. was a few seconds fast? Why were these explosions only reported by 3 people of questionable reliability who were in the basement of the North Tower and no one else at the WTC? How does a massive explosion in the basements an hour to an hour and a half before the top down collapses fit a CD scenario? Why would the plotters who could time the charges to down the towers with millisecond precision set off these basement explosives several seconds before the impacts twice? But he still makes a cogent point: both buildings fell from the top down. Of course they fell from the top down. No one is saying that explosions in the basements brought the towers done from the bottom up. The basement explosions were to weaken the lower support columns making it easier to bring the entire structure down to ground level when they initiated the demolition from the area of the impact zone near the 90th floor. LOL – Find me an engineer who thinks that makes sense. Damage to the bottom of the towers would induce a bottom to top collapse.This Finnish website explains the use of SMALL NUCLEAR DEVICES at variouslevels of the WTC buildings: http://www.saunalahti.fi/wtc2001/evidence.htm The Finnish site has numerous pages. Go to all of them. Home page: http://www.saunalahti.fi/wtc2001/evidence.htm Follow the evidence. Jack So he found some superficial similarities betweeen photos of A-bomb tests and the collapses of the towers, how compelling. The Challenger explosion looked similar too perhaps it was nuked as well.http://www.cs.brown.edu/courses/cs024/images/canon/11.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Smith Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 (edited) As noted elsewhere on this forum Rodriguez’s story changed he was interview on Sept. 11 or 12 and said nothing about and explosion from below or an explosion that preceded impact. Why would he and others lie about something like that? He would have been more handsomely rewarded if he had gone along with the official story. They wanted to make him a poster-boy for the “War On Terror” but he refused to play along. How has any of this benefited him? Strange that no one else of the tens of thousands of survivors has reported anything similar Many, many witnesses reported hearing explosions prior to the collapses. Rodriguez claims that he did many interviews, and every time he mentioned the explosions, those statements were excised. How many more people may have talked about the same thing, but were ignored by the investigators and news media? Fear could also be a very powerful factor in why more people are reluctant to come forward with what they saw and heard. No there were 2 express elevators and at least one freight elevator that went from the lobbies to impact zone. How could a massive explosion occur all the way down in the sub-basement level, if there were only two or three elevator shafts connected to the area of plane impact, over 90 floors above? How could burning jet fuel from over 90 floors obliterate a 50 ton press in the sub-basement. According to Rodriguez, a Mr. Griffiths, the operator of the express elevator (car 54) that went from the ground level to the impact zone, suffered broken ankles but no burns. If such a massive fireball raced down the elevator shaft, how could he have managed to not get burned? Rodriguez says he will eventually interview this guy to set the record straight. There were about 25 express elevators to the 78th floor. The plane hit above the 90th floor. I’ve read a few of Rodriguez’s ever evolving accounts where did he say the ceiling caved in? In an interview with Alex Jones. He said part of the drop ceiling came down, to be more precise. He said it was “gone” not “blown completely across the room” he said the ceiling had come down. How did burning jet fuel from th 90th floor cause all this damage? Could it be that the clock at L.D.E.O. was a few seconds fast? I don't know, but 14 seconds too fast sounds like a considerable span of time to me. You would think that a scientific institution of that caliber, whose job is measuring seismographic data, would be more precise than that, but I don't know for sure. It would certainly behoove the 911 researchers who put this information out to verify if the L.D.E.O. was on the same Coordinated Universal Time clock as the FAA radar and software data that established the official impact times. Why were these explosions only reported by 3 people of questionable reliability who were in the basement of the North Tower and no one else at the WTC? Who says they are of questionable reliability? You? And just because you don't hear more people talking about it, doesn't mean they don't exist. Fear has a way of making people keep their mouths shut. And how many witnesses were actually questioned by the official investigators of the crime? How does a massive explosion in the basements an hour to an hour and a half before the top down collapses fit a CD scenario? They could have served to weaken the lower support columns near the foundation, or maybe some of them went off prematurely. As noted elsewhere on this forum Rodriguez’s story changed he was interview on Sept. 11 or 12 and said nothing about and explosion from below or an explosion that preceded impact. Why would he and others lie about something like that? He would have been more handsomely rewarded if he had gone along with the official story. They wanted to make him a poster-boy for the “War On Terror” but he refused to play along. How has any of this benefited him? Strange that no one else of the tens of thousands of survivors has reported anything similar Many, many witnesses reported hearing explosions prior to the collapses. Rodriguez claims that he did many interviews, and every time he mentioned the explosions, those statements were excised. How many more people may have talked about the same thing, but were ignored by the investigators and news media. Fear could also be a very powerful factor in why more people are reluctant to come forward with what they saw and heard. No there were 2 express elevators and at least one freight elevator that went from the lobbies to impact zone. How could a massive explosion occur all the way down in the sub-basement level, if there were only two or three elevator shafts connected to the area of plane impact, over 90 floors above? How could burning jet fuel from over 90 floors obliterate a 50 ton press in the sub-basement. According to Rodriguez, a Mr. Griffiths, the operator of the express elevator (car 54) that went from the ground level to the impact zone, suffered broken ankles but no burns. If such a massive fireball raced down the elevator shaft, how could he have managed to not get burned? Rodriguez says he will eventually interview this guy to set the record straight. There were about 25 express elevators to the 78th floor. The plane hit above the 90th floor. I’ve read a few of Rodriguez’s ever evolving accounts where did he say the ceiling caved in? In an interview with Alex Jones. He said part of the drop ceiling came down, to be more precise. He said it was “gone” not “blown completely across the room” he said the ceiling had come down. How did burning jet fuel from th 90th floor cause all this damage? Could it be that the clock at L.D.E.O. was a few seconds fast? I don't know, but 14 seconds too fast sounds like a considerable span of time to me. You would think that a scientific institution of that caliber, whose job is measuring seismographic data, would be more precise than that, but I don't know for sure. It would certainly behoove the 911 researchers who put this information out to verify if the L.D.E.O. was on the same Coordinated Universal Time clock as the FAA radar and software data that established the official impact times. Why were these explosions only reported by 3 people of questionable reliability who were in the basement of the North Tower and no one else at the WTC? Who says they are of questionable reliability? You? And just because you don't hear more people talking about it, doesn't mean they don't exist. Fear has a way of making people keep their mouths shut. And how many witnesses were actually questioned by the official investigators of the crime? How does a massive explosion in the basements an hour to an hour and a half before the top down collapses fit a CD scenario?They could have served to weaken the lower support columns near the foundation, or maybe some of them went off prematurely. Edited October 6, 2006 by Brian Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Burton Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 I found out one of the problems mentioned above. The time discrepancy is nothing of the sort. This is growing more and more common in CT's attempted derivations. We saw virtually the same mistake in the Ross and Furlong seismic paper. Their entire derivation was based on time records that they assumed were accurate to the second, and they showed "suspicious" discrepancies of up to 17 seconds. As it turned out, instead of reading event times, they were reading record start times. Since the Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory at Columbia presents the events centered in 40-second windows to show background prior and following the events, there was a variable offset to the start of the event, varying from 0 to 20 seconds. This offset was their so-called "anomaly." Ross and Furlong never bothered to understand this, and Furlong got quite combative when this was pointed out to him. No calibration, no error estimation, thus no results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Smith Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 I found out one of the problems mentioned above.The time discrepancy is nothing of the sort. This is growing more and more common in CT's attempted derivations. We saw virtually the same mistake in the Ross and Furlong seismic paper. Their entire derivation was based on time records that they assumed were accurate to the second, and they showed "suspicious" discrepancies of up to 17 seconds. As it turned out, instead of reading event times, they were reading record start times. Since the Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory at Columbia presents the events centered in 40-second windows to show background prior and following the events, there was a variable offset to the start of the event, varying from 0 to 20 seconds. This offset was their so-called "anomaly." Ross and Furlong never bothered to understand this, and Furlong got quite combative when this was pointed out to him. No calibration, no error estimation, thus no results. That's very interesting information that I was previously unaware of. Thanks. I will try to find out more about it, so I can better understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John J. McCarthy Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Pik this. http://www.pissedoffcombatveterans.com/id277.html Bests, John McCarthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Lamson Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Pik this.http://www.pissedoffcombatveterans.com/id277.html Bests, John McCarthy How about you deal with with your "nukes in the basement" claim first instead of throwing more crap on the wall and seeing if anything sticks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John J. McCarthy Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Stop the presses! I smell cordite!!! That's composition B, the same stuff they put in grenades....don't tell me they have mini grenades with nuclear capability now?! Cordite in the det cord too? Oh. my. What will the debunkers order for lunch now that they realize this material can only be placed by mankind. Where's the proof that no nukes were used to bring down the towers? Bests, John McCarthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Colby Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 (edited) As noted elsewhere on this forum Rodriguez's story changed he was interview on Sept. 11 or 12 and said nothing about and explosion from below or an explosion that preceded impact. Why would he and others lie about something like that? He would have been more handsomely rewarded if he had gone along with the official story. They wanted to make him a poster-boy for the "War On Terror" but he refused to play along. How has any of this benefited him? Who knows, maybe he thinks he has a chance of winning the lawsuit. How would I know? Perhaps wants to return to the limelight? I wasn't in the US but he seemed to drop out of sight after a few weeks, there were a lot of people hailed as heroes for their actions that day he had his 15 minutes of fame. When he was a kid he dreamed of being a famous magician "the greatest illusionist in the Caribbean basin." As he put it, later he was featured on Puerto Rican TV "escaping from a chained straight jacket while hanging from a burning rope", and after moving to the mainland hired by the "Amazing Randi" but after that stint he had a hard time getting work and became a janitor at the WTC which must have been quite a disappointment. For a while he worked as sort of an assistant to NY governor Mario Cuomo who had an office in the towers helping set up his press conferences, but Cuomo was voted out of office in 1994 [ http://newyorkmetro.com/news/features/16464/ and http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0512/S00291.htm ] Perhaps he convinced himself that it's true. Strange that no one else of the tens of thousands of survivors has reported anything similar "Many, many witnesses reported hearing explosions prior to the collapses. Rodriguez claims that he did many interviews, and every time he mentioned the explosions, those statements were excised. How many more people may have talked about the same thing, but were ignored by the investigators and news media? Fear could also be a very powerful factor in why more people are reluctant to come forward with what they saw and heard." As for the reports of explosions they prove little as has been gone over ad infinitum. When people, even war veterans, hear loud noises they lend to compare them to bombs or explosions. -There were reports of explosions from the Windsor Tower fire in Madrid. - A highway overpass in Quebec collapsed "I turned my head obviously because it sounded like the explosion of a 50-kilogram bomb." - Claude Canton, who had been painting his house Highway 19 but rushed to the scene. http://news.yahoo.ca/s/30092006/2/national-witnesses-give-dramatic-accounts-overpass-collapse-near-laval-que.html - There was a small earthquake in New Hampshire ( a US state not know for seismic activity) "Henniker Police secretary Gail Abramowicz said she got about 20 calls in four minutes. "People were concerned if anything exploded. They said it sounded like a bomb went off and wanted to know if I had calls." http://www.seacoastonline.com/2004news/1_21special2.htm - A bolt of lightning struck a dead tree in Florida " "The last time I heard something like that, I was overseas at war," Cape Coral Vietnam veteran Richard Foley told the newspaper. He said, "It literally sounded like a bomb." Korean war veteran Richard Charleville, who's home sustained $2,000 in damage, said the explosion knocked him out of bed. "It sounded like somebody tossed a grenade in the house." " http://www.uclick.com/widgets/ew/060818/ew060818x.html - A 16 year old Thai boy remembers the Tsunami "I was fishing near another village when I heard a noise. It sounded like a bomb. I heard it three times. A boy told me that there was a big flood and so I ran," remembers Bao. http://www.helpage.org/News/Casestudies/Emergencies/@26991 More: http://911myths.com/html/bombs___not_literally.html Many of the quotes are taken out of context http://debunking911.com/explosions.htm http://debunking911.com/quotes.htm In any case you're changing the issue we were talking about pre-crash explosions. Rodriguez's 1st interview was on TV it was different from his later versions. That you have "many, many witnesses reported hearing explosions prior to the collapses" undermines your argument, why would many people not be afraid to talk about pre-collapse explosion but no one be brave enough to talk about pre-crash ones. The fear argument doesn't really cut it, there are thousands of people in the truth movement but none have been killed one claims he was roughed up by police and one had his office burgled but there is no evidence tying these incidents to the position on 9/11, both those guys had lots of enemies. Two lost their jobs but there were extenuating circumstances No there were 2 express elevators and at least one freight elevator that went from the lobbies to impact zone. "How could a massive explosion occur all the way down in the sub-basement level, if there were only two or three elevator shafts connected to the area of plane impact, over 90 floors above? How could burning jet fuel from over 90 floors obliterate a 50 ton press in the sub-basement. According to Rodriguez, a Mr. Griffiths, the operator of the express elevator (car 54) that went from the ground level to the impact zone, suffered broken ankles but no burns. If such a massive fireball raced down the elevator shaft, how could he have managed to not get burned? Rodriguez says he will eventually interview this guy to set the record straight." You obviously didn't read the 9/11 report or understand what I wrote I said unignited fuel went down the shafts and it or its vapor ignited on lower floors. There were also reports of fireballs in some of the shafts. As for Rodriguez's claims, let's wait for the interview but it can't prove much, the fuel could have gone down another shaft or gone down the shaft unignited. As already pointed out a 50 –ton press isn't that big it doesn't weigh 50 tons There were about 25 express elevators to the 78th floor. "The plane hit above the 90th floor." I was correcting one of your errors, also you left out the part about the explosion on the 77th floor. It's also possible fuel went from one shaft to another. I've read a few of Rodriguez's ever evolving accounts where did he say the ceiling caved in? "In an interview with Alex Jones. He said part of the drop ceiling came down, to be more precise." Citation, he didn't mention this in earlier accounts even after he said be felt an explosion from below before the plane hit, so as I said his version keeps changing. Edited October 6, 2006 by Len Colby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Colby Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 (edited) He said it was "gone" not "blown completely across the room" he said the ceiling had come down. "How did burning jet fuel from th 90th floor cause all this damage?" Try understanding what you read before questioning it. No one said fuel burning or exploding in the impact zone caused damage on lower floors. As I said research fuel air explosions (also thermobaric weapons), even a small amout of fuel can produce quite a bang. IIRC it's estimated about 3000 gallons of jet fuel survived the impact fireballs in each tower that's over 10,000 liters, the Russians disabled German tanks with liter bottles of vodka. The US Marines have developed a bazooka launched fuel air projectile that can blow up small buildings, and bring down roofs and walls of larger ones with a single round. http://www.defensetech.org/archives/001944.html See also this article http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn4785 Wikipedia has a good article with lots of links http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermobaric_weapon Could it be that the clock at L.D.E.O. was a few seconds fast? "I don't know, but 14 seconds too fast sounds like a considerable span of time to me. You would think that a scientific institution of that caliber, whose job is measuring seismographic data, would be more precise than that, but I don't know for sure. It would certainly behoove the 911 researchers who put this information out to verify if the L.D.E.O. was on the same Coordinated Universal Time clock as the FAA radar and software data that established the official impact times." I think Evan already delt with this issue pretty well. People like to use fancy terminology to make thing sound more impressive. All that "Coordinated Universal Time clock" means is that they used military style 24 time and the time of day in Greenwich (London) Why were these explosions only reported by 3 people of questionable reliability who were in the basement of the North Tower and no one else at the WTC? "Who says they are of questionable reliability? You? And just because you don't hear more people talking about it, doesn't mean they don't exist. Fear has a way of making people keep their mouths shut. And how many witnesses were actually questioned by the official investigators of the crime?" I've already said why I don't think the fear factor cuts it as an excuse. Rodriguez is of questionable reliability because his story keeps mutating and evolving his friends are because they said nothing before getting involved in the lawsuit and by association with Rodriguez. Their version is contradicted by Pecoraro, why would he fail to mention feeling an explosion? How does a massive explosion in the basements an hour to an hour and a half before the top down collapses fit a CD scenario? "They could have served to weaken the lower support columns near the foundation…" This is getting circular again, how this does fit a top to bottom collapse scenario? I asked you to cite an an engineer ( a demolition expert or high rise architect will suffice too) who says it does. As a layman I find it hard to believe they could withstood so long having the columns cut before being hit by the plane and no one reporting the buildings being unstable till just before collapse. "…or maybe some of them went off prematurely." They made the same mistake twice? And by almost the same amount of time. 15 seconds before impact the planes were about 2 miles away. In any case why explode them at the time of or just after the impacts? Why not just before imploding them? Len Stop the presses! I smell cordite!!! That's composition B, the same stuff they put in grenades....don't tell me they have mini grenades with nuclear capability now?! Cordite in the det cord too? Oh. my. What will the debunkers order for lunch now that they realize this material can only be placed by mankind.Where's the proof that no nukes were used to bring down the towers? Bests, John McCarthy You've got the burden of proof like just about every thing backwards, were is the evidence they were used. You never explained why elevated levels of radiation were not detected Also cordite is a propellant not normally used as an explosive, are you really a military expert? Edited October 6, 2006 by Len Colby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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