"I don't own a rifle---"

[William Kelly]

The other things that bother me about the rifle is that while Marina said Oswald sat on his New Orleans porch and dry cocked the rifle, his nosey next door neighbor, who said Oswald never introduced himself or said hello in the months they lived next to each other, - he never saw this happen, yet he saw Oswald leave early that September morning with two suitcases. Why didn't he see the gun on the porch?

BK

Bill, if I remember right, the Oswalds had a screened-in porch at that address?

That's possible Dave, though the photos I've seen of it more recently don't have a screen.

In any case, if it even happened, the dry firing of the rifle on that porch is the only time Oswald is known to have actually handled it other than as seen in the backyard photos.

BK

[Greg Parker]

The other things that bother me about the rifle is that while Marina said Oswald sat on his New Orleans porch and dry cocked the rifle, his nosey next door neighbor, who said Oswald never introduced himself or said hello in the months they lived next to each other, - he never saw this happen, yet he saw Oswald leave early that September morning with two suitcases. Why didn't he see the gun on the porch?

BK

Bill, if I remember right, the Oswalds had a screened-in porch at that address?

That's possible Dave, though the photos I've seen of it more recently don't have a screen.

In any case, if it even happened, the dry firing of the rifle on that porch is the only time Oswald is known to have actually handled it other than as seen in the backyard photos.

BK

Screen or no screen, at least one neighbor reported that the only activity seen on the porch was Oswald doing something far more dangerous than rifle practice - he did his reading there.

And thank you Bill for listing all the reasons to believe Oswald had nothing to do with the rifle. The case for him having it is very weak and would have crumbled in court.

[Greg Parker]

Screen or no screen, at least one neighbor reported that the only activity seen on the porch was Oswald doing something far more dangerous than rifle practice - he did his reading there.

And thank you Bill for listing all the reasons to believe Oswald had nothing to do with the rifle. The case for him having it is very weak and would have crumbled in court.

"...He said that this man generally sat on his lawn or on his porch reading..."

"...Eames said he never observed Oswald exhibit any guns. He said he did see Oswald in the main branch of the New Orleans Library on one occasion and observed Oswald frequently [my emphasis] reading on his porch and lawn.

FBI interview with Alexander Eames

Seems Eames saw a lot of Oswald and his habits around the house and if Oswald had been in the habit of dry firing a rifle, Eames would surely have seen him.

[Guest Tom Scully]

The question that I ask is in the light of Ozzie's statement that he did not own a rifle,

He was talking about buying a rifle just prior to leaving NO in Sept, '63 giving the reason that "everyone needs one". He also hinted that lack of ability to own a rifle in Soviet Union was one of the reasons he did not like it there (source, 2001 interview with Ruth Ann Peters nee Kloepfer).

Why would he be talking about needing a rifle and wanting to buy one if he already owned one? Moreover, why was he talking about this at all?

I maintain that the pistol was purchased for a third party (DF Drittal was named as reference on coupon. "dienst fur drittel" is German and translates into "on behalf of a third party").

Was that third party the Dodd Subcommittee looking into the companies that supplied these weapons through the mail? Was it coincidence that a Californian cop on secondment to that subcommittee was the one who steered the investigation toward Klein's?

I have for some time questioned the testimonies of Wes Frazier and his sister Linnie Mae.

Good. It needs questioning. The impression I get from their testimony is that there was little love between the two siblings. Wes said they rarely spoke - Linnie hints that he's an uneducated hick and below her station. They also differ on how Wes got his job. Through her recommendation according to her. Through a tip from an Irving employment agency according to him.

And it was Linnie who dropped Wes in the poo with the cops to begin with...

I don't recall if I have posted this here before or not, but I do question if Linnie Mae Randle actually saw all that she claimed to have seen.

You are correct. She didn't see what she originally hinted she saw, and this part of her testimony virtually is an admission of it:

Senator COOPER. I mean did you see him throw open the. door?

Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir.

Senator COOPER. When he placed the package in there do you remember whether he used one hand or two?

Mrs. RANDLE. No; because I only opened the door briefly and what made me establish the door on Wesley's car, it is an old car and that door, the window is broken and everything and it is hard to close, so that cinched in my mind which door it was, too. But it was only briefly that I looked.

So when she says she saw him open the door, what she was really saying was that she assumed he did, because it appears that door was the only one he could open.

Just a spooky coincidence, or much more?

"Drittel" or "Drittell"....it is spelled both ways...was the name of a Russian immigrant, a cellist named Ana :

http://books.google.com/books?um=1&q=A...=1&oi=spell

The Musician: America's leading magazine for musicians, music-lovers ...‎ - Page 103

Biography & Autobiography - 1932

Mr. Arsenault was assisted by Ana Drittel, cellist. Susanne Fisher, soprano of

the Metropolitan Opera, has been engaged to sing a special performance of La ...

http://books.google.com/books?um=1&q=A...nG=Search+Books

The Musician: America's leading magazine for musicians, music-lovers ...‎ - Page 46

Biography & Autobiography - 1932

Ana Drittell, young cellist, made her Town Hall debut, presenting music of Bach,

Beethoven- Mozart, Locatelli, Jean Hure, Faure, Turina, Hindemith and U.

James

....."There's not much information on the background of Ana Dratelle, the 1st

and 3rd wife of John Hurt. She was apparently very good at speaking French

and perhaps was living in France when Hurt met her aboard ship on his way

to/from France. The family says she studied music in Europe. The information

about her being Russian comes from the book Story of Magic, I believe, and

perhaps also from the family."

Hurt first married Ana in the 1930's but quickly divorced. He remained married to his second wife until she died, I believe shortly after the war ended. He then remaried Ana Dratelle. Apparently Hurt travelled to France for extended periods twice, once before the war and once again in 1963/64. He was known to have made the comment that "The French do not know how to speak French."

Ana was a concert cellist although, as Ms Hoch suggests, very little is know about her. Hurt was a man who could sing many of the most famous opera parts and was a lover of clasical music.

Although he was known for being such a great Japanese linguist, Hurt never traveled to Japan.

Just for the record,

Jim Root

Edited February 19, 2010 by Tom Scully

[Guest Tom Scully]

Dixie,

Linnie's mother, Essie Mae Williams testified in an FBI Report to SA Henry

Oliver on 12/10/63,,,that she also watched LHO approah their house from their kitchen. and he was NOT carrying a brown bag or anything else. I have not yet located Essie's testimony, to verify it.

Dixie

According to Mary Ferrell's database, it's on CD 205. If you have access to the Warren Commission documents, you might find it there.

Steve Thomas

Does anyone else think it is odd that no one asked for or recorded the actual address of Wesley Buell Frazier's mother, Essie Mae Williams in Huntington, TX on the record, or even inquired as to Essie Mae's husband's name? Her husband was Wesley's step-father, probably for most of his formative years, and that Huntington address was also Wesley's permanent, or at least his immediately prior address.

Wesley was born in 1944, His sister Linnie Mae Randle in 1933, and there were other siblings born in between those years. Their father, Elbert Frazier and a woman named Mertie Brown, aka "Myrtie Louise Brown" had a child less than four years later, Charles Eunice Frazier, DOB Aug. 2, 1948. (A daughter was also born to the couple in 1951, and Wesley's father died in Harris Cty., TX in 1993.)

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=147

In the FBI document linked immediately above. "Linnie" is spelled "Lennie", and the address displays as "2439" West 5th.

The WC transcript of Linnie Mae Randle's testimony displays "2438 Westfield" as the address.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=148

Observe that the Irving, TX address in the above document is not the correct street number, but probably not intentional.

If the FBI asked Wesley and his mother for ID documents, they would probably not display an Irving, TX address.

http://www.jfk-assassination.de/warren/wch/vol2/page211.php

....Mr. Ball.

You call yourself Buell or Wesley?

Mr. Frazier.

I go by Wesley.

Mr. Ball.

Well, Wesley, what is your age?

Mr. Frazier.

Sir?

Mr. Ball.

What is your age?

Mr. Frazier.

Nineteen.

Mr. Ball.

Where do you live?

Mr. Frazier.

For the time being I am living in Irving now.

Mr. Ball.

Irving, Tex.

Mr. Frazier.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

What is the address where you live?

Mr. Frazier.

2439 West Fifth Street.

Mr. Ball.

Did you live there in November 1963?

Mr. Frazier.

Yes, sir; I did.

Mr. Ball.

And who lives in that house with you?

Mr. Frazier.

My sister and brother-in-law and their three children.

Mr. Ball.

Will you state their names, your sister's name?

Mr. Frazier.

Linnie Mae Randle and my brother-in-law. I believe his real name is William Edward Randle. We call him Bill. They have three little girls, Diana, Patricia and Caroline Sue.

Mr. Ball.

Where does your mother live?

Mr. Frazier.

She lives in Huntsville.

Mr. Ball.

Where is that?

Mr. Frazier.

That is about 200 miles south of Dallas there.

Mr. Ball.

What is the name of the town?

Mr. Frazier.

Town, you mean where my mother lives? Huntsville.

Mr. Ball.

Huntsville?

Mr. Frazier.

Yes, sir; that is about, it is about 70, 80 miles north of Houston.

Mr. Ball.

What is your mother's name?

Mr. Frazier.

Essie Mae Williams.

Mr. Ball.

Was she visiting you and your sister sometime in November 1963?

Mr. Frazier.

Yes, sir; she was.

Mr. Ball.

How long was she there?

Mr. Frazier.

She was there for, I believe, for a period of about 4 or 5 weeks because my stepfather was with her and he got sick and they had to put him in the hospital and he was in the hospital 3 or 4 weeks, somewhere, 4 or 5 weeks because they were there a week before he got sick.

Mr. Ball.

Then on November 21 and 22, living with you in this residence at Irving, Tex., were your mother, Mrs. Williams, and your sister, Linnie Mae Randle?

Because someone was kind enough this past August to record and photograph the gravestone of Linnie and Wesley's mother and stepfather, I can now share the name of Essie Mae William's spouse, the man who was hospitalized in Dallas in November, 1963, and who the WC investigators exhibited absolutely no interest in investigating, or even recording the name or street address of. His name was David Franklin Williams and he died in May, 1969. I can find nothing on him, unless his son is a recent professor at Huntsville's Sam Houston college.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=57504931&PIpi=32182374

Essie Mae Williams was originally Essie Mae Jones, and she was first married to Elbert Frazier in Bowie County, TX in 1928.: http://files.usgwarchives.org/tx/bowie/vitals/marriages/bcm8830d.txt

Linnie Mae Frazier's 1933 birth record.: http://files.usgwarchives.org/tx/bowie/vitals/births/1933/bowib33.txt

[Todd W. Vaughan]

"The question that I ask is in the light of Ozzie's satement that he did not own a rifle, a statement which I think was was subjected to a voice stress analization test,"

No, it was not.

[Todd W. Vaughan]

Dixie wrote: "Linnie's mother, Essie Mae Williams testified in an FBI Report to SA Henry Oliver on 12/10/63,,,that she also watched LHO approah their house from their kitchen. and he was NOT carrying a brown bag or anything else. I have not yet located Essie's testimony, to verify it."

Dixie

Dixie, this interview is news to me and probably to many others. Can't wait to see your next post.

Ray

"Do not block the way of inquiry" C.S. Peirce

Ray, the interview is here: http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=148

Essie Williams does not say "he was NOT carrying a brown bag or anything else" as stated by Dixie.

She actually says "She did not see this person carrying anything" and that she "only got a quick glimpse of Oswald" big difference isn't it. Misquoting testimony, albeit by accident, does not help the cause.

Denis,

This "misquote of testimony" originates with John Armstron in Harvey and Lee. It is he who "misquotes" (althought I don't see how this could really be a misquote) Essie Williams. He does this with the Paines as well in one instance.

I think this is where Dixie read this, as I'm pretty sure that no reference to Essie Williams appears in any other book, so I don't think this is Dixies fault at all, it's Armstong's.

Todd

[David Von Pein]

Essie didn't see Oswald carrying his paper bag because Essie only saw Oswald AFTER he had already placed his 38-inch brown bag in the back seat of Wesley Frazier's car. That fact couldn't be more obvious, because Oswald didn't look into the kitchen window until after he had gone to Wesley's car.

This topic came up at another forum in October 2009. Here is a portion of what I had to say back then when discussing this matter with "Bud", a fellow LNer:

[DVP said:]

In the final analysis concerning this matter, I think Linnie Mae Randle's

testimony settles the issue about when Lee Oswald went to Buell Wesley

Frazier's car and put the rifle package in the back seat.

Linnie Mae said that she saw Oswald AS HE CROSSED WESTBROOK STREET heading

toward the Randle house. And right after crossing the street, Oswald

headed straight for Frazier's car.

To believe that Oswald still had the package with him when Frazier's

mother (Essie Mae Williams) saw him through the kitchen window, we'd have

to believe that Oswald crossed the street....went directly to Frazier's

car....opened the back door of the car....and then walked back toward the

Randle house (the kitchen side) with the bag still with him.

That's just silly, because the only reason for Oswald to go to Frazier's

car would be to put the bag inside the car. What other possible reason

would he have for going to Frazier's car immediately after crossing the

street?

[bud asked:]

>>> "Do you think it is possible for her [Linnie Mae Randle] to have seen

this [LHO putting the package in the back seat of Frazier's 1953

Chevrolet sedan], David?" <<<

[i answered:]

I'm not sure. But I certainly think it's possible, given the amount of

space between the slats in the carport (as seen in the photo below):

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10897&relPageId=17

I certainly don't think Linnie Mae was lying at all. She possibly HEARD

more than she SAW.

I.E.,

She peeks out the kitchen door and HEARS the person who she just saw walk

toward her brother's car (Lee Oswald). It's obvious that the person at

Frazier's car at that point in time was the person Randle just saw cross

the street (Oswald).

Randle then HEARS the door of Frazier's car being opened. It's also

possible that she gets enough of a glimpse of Oswald through the slats of

the carport to see at least a portion of Oswald as he places the bag in

the car.

So, the combination of HEARING what Oswald was doing at the car and very

likely SEEING a little bit of Oswald through the slats was certainly

enough information, IMO, for Mrs. Linnie Mae Randle to reasonably testify

in the following manner:

"He opened the right back door and I just saw that he was laying the

package down, so I closed the door."

[bud said:]

>>> "One thing to consider, if Oswald put the rifle in the car, he

wouldn`t be apt to be wandering where he could be seen from the kitchen

window again." <<<

[i said:]

Why not? At that point, he wasn't still carrying the rifle package for

everybody to see. So there's no real reason he should cower and hide in a

corner someplace at that point in time.

As I think about this situation some more, here are some of my additional

thoughts on it (as I try to look at things from Oswald's point-of-view):

Oswald was probably getting a little bit anxious as he waited outside

Frazier's house on the morning of November 22nd. According to Frazier's

testimony:

"I just thought maybe, you know, he [Lee Oswald] just left a little

bit earlier, but when I looked up and saw that the clock was...I knew I

was the one who was running a little bit late because, as I say, I was

talking, sitting there eating breakfast and talking to the little nieces,

it was later than I thought it was."

So, if Frazier is correct about running a little later than usual on

11/22/63, I can certainly envision Oswald possibly deliberately WANTING to

make himself visible to people (Frazier particularly) inside the Randle

house after LHO put the bag in the car. So it doesn't seem surprising to

me that Oswald might want to move out in front of the kitchen window where

he could reasonably assume Wes Frazier might see him.

If it had gotten a little bit later, I can also envision Oswald knocking

on the door to remind Wesley that it's time to leave for work.

It's also quite possible that Oswald was anxious to get to work a little

EARLIER than usual on November 22nd.

Why?

Because if he gets there early, he'd have a better chance to stash his

rifle package somewhere without anybody seeing him with the package (or at

the very least, fewer people than normal would be apt to see Oswald coming

in the back door with a long bag if he got to work early), since most of

the Depository workers would be coming in after Oswald arrives.

This particular theory assumes that the doors to the Texas School Book

Depository Building would be open to any employee prior to 8:00 AM (or

possibly even prior to approximately 7:30 AM, given this "early arrival"

theory).

I would assume that an employee could arrive early if he wanted to,

without having to wait for the doors to be unlocked, but I have no

personal knowledge if this is true or not. Perhaps Gary Mack knows. (I

wouldn't be surprised if he did have this tidbit of information, seeing as

how Mr. Mack is "The Walking TSBD/Dealey Plaza Encyclopedia".)

This is all pure speculation, of course. And in the long run, this type of

nit-picking and conjecture about Oswald's movements don't amount to

anything substantial at all. But it is fun to engage in this kind of

guesswork from time to time. Heck, conspiracy theorists specialize in such

speculative endeavors regarding things far more important than this topic.

David V.P.

October 21, 2009

Original Post/Thread:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/browse_thread/thread/7da5ce3a4ab08af3/ba4cb27149a7707c?#ba4cb27149a7707c

=====================================

ADDITIONAL (FUN) SPECULATION --- A LEE HARVEY OSWALD "TIMELINE":

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/3a3d654f3c43ed16

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/679eb16f02238b52

Edited October 27, 2010 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

Continuation of October 2009 discussion re Essie, Linnie, LHO, etc.:

>>> "Why do you assume that Essie saw Oswald out the window at a different time than LMR?" <<<

Bud,

Because Oswald was MOVING when Linnie Mae saw him. He wasn't

stationary.

Do you think that a MOVING Oswald would have been able to be seen by

Linnie Mae and Essie...with then there being enough time before the

moving Oswald left their field of vision for Essie to ask Wesley "Who

is that?" and then for Wesley to look out the window and still see the

moving Oswald as he headed for the carport area?

I'm dubious about Essie and Wesley seeing a MOVING Oswald. I'd bet he

was standing pretty much still when Essie and Wesley saw him out the

window.

Plus, there's the fact that Linnie Mae would have possibly been blocking

out part of the view of Wesley and Essie because Linnie Mae was

standing in front of the kitchen window (at the counter, preparing

lunches; see photo below) when she saw Oswald crossing the street:

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10897&relPageId=14

And it sure looks like a fairly small window to me. Hence, it seems

likely to me that a MOVING Oswald would only appear in that window for

a fleeting moment to anyone who wasn't standing right at the window.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10897&relPageId=16

>>> "Nor is there any reason for him [Oswald] to wander away from that important item back into view of the kitchen window." <<<

Bud, you're talking as if the carport area and the street (Westbrook)

are miles from each other. They're not. The carport is very close to

the street itself (see photo below). If Oswald had walked just a few

feet away from Wesley Frazier's car, he would have been in the street:

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10897&relPageId=13

10/27/2010 Edit/Addendum:

I can't figure out why Bud (a very logical LNer) thinks that Oswald would have needed to hover over the gun while it lay in Frazier's back seat for those few minutes before Buell came out of his house on Nov. 22.

Was Oswald supposed to fear a burglar at 7:10 AM on 11/22? I kinda doubt that Frazier's carport was swarming with passersby and loiterers at that time. And even if someone else was around--Oswald was still right there--only a few feet away (as mentioned above).

Plus, before LHO ever left for work on 11/22, he had to have known that he wouldn't be able to keep guard over his package/rifle every minute of the day....because he knew he'd have to stash it somewhere in the TSBD and then go to work throughout the building filling his book orders.

So letting the gun out of his sight for a period of time was pretty much a foregone conclusion.

Edited October 27, 2010 by David Von Pein

[Todd W. Vaughan]

This is kind of unfair to Armstrong.

The FBi report says that Essie saw Oswald not carrying anything in his hands.

Pretty complete and categorical isn't it?

This is what John writes in his book: "Mrs. Williams told the FBI that Oswald was not carrying a brown paper bag or anything else in his hands." (p. 795)

To me, to say this is a misquote is making a distinction without a difference. If you are not carrying anything, you are not carrying anything.

Including a brown paper bag.

Good grief. Context, Jim, context.

Edited October 27, 2010 by Todd W. Vaughan

[William Kelly]

Essie didn't see Oswald carrying his paper bag because Essie only saw Oswald AFTER he had already placed his 38-inch brown bag in the back seat of Wesley Frazier's car. That fact couldn't be more obvious, because Oswald didn't look into the kitchen window until after he had gone to Wesley's car.

This is all pure speculation, of course. And in the long run, this type of

nit-picking and conjecture about Oswald's movements don't amount to

anything substantial at all. But it is fun to engage in this kind of

guesswork from time to time. Heck, conspiracy theorists specialize in such

speculative endeavors regarding things far more important than this topic.

David V.P.

October 21, 2009

Original Post/Thread:

http://groups.google...a4cb27149a7707c

=====================================

ADDITIONAL (FUN) SPECULATION --- A LEE HARVEY OSWALD "TIMELINE":

http://groups.google...a3d654f3c43ed16

http://groups.google...79eb16f02238b52

Gee Dave, That certainly is a lot of salt.

Do you lay that much on everything you eat?

You know it's not good for you.

And even Dale Myers tries to set you straight.

I didn't know he cared.

BK

[William O'Neil]

Greg, I have been to the Oswald Apt several times. Even if Eames could not have seen Oswald behind the screen cycling and "dry firing" a rifle, he definately could have heard it if he was outside. I have even stood across the street and could hear the door to that apt.lightly squeek open and close.

Someone I met had a MC just like the supposed Oswald rifle, when we worked the bolt it was rather noisy, louder than the door...!

-Bill

[David Von Pein]

To show how out of kilter Jim DiEugenio is regarding certain matters in the JFK case, he actually seems to think that Wesley Frazier's mother is a prime/key witness who should have been questioned in the same depth that Wesley and Linnie Mae were questioned.

That is typical of a CTer, though -- i.e., always latching on to chaff and ignoring the wheat field. DiEugenio is a master at harvesting chaff.

But we must also keep in mind that Jimbo is one of those rare and very strange CTers who has decided to believe that Lee Oswald had NO LARGE PACKAGE AT ALL with him on the morning of November the 22nd.

Keep on truckin', Jimbo. Pretty soon I'm sure you'll find a way to pretend that LHO and Frazier didn't drive to the TSBD together AT ALL on 11/22/63. It was all made up by big fat xxxx Wesley--just like the paper bag. Right, Jimmy?

Edited October 28, 2010 by David Von Pein

[Guest Tom Scully]

To show how out of kilter Jim DiEugenio is regarding certain matters in the JFK case, he actually seems to think that Wesley Frazier's mother is a prime/key witness who should have been questioned in the same depth that Wesley and Linnie Mae were questioned.

That is typical of a CTer, though -- i.e., always latching on to chaff and ignoring the wheat field. DiEugenio is a master at harvesting chaff.

But we must also keep in mind that Jimbo is one of those rare and very strange CTers who has decided to believe that Lee Oswald had NO LARGE PACKAGE AT ALL with him on the morning of November the 22nd.

Keep on truckin', Jimbo. Pretty soon I'm sure you'll find a way to pretend that LHO and Frazier didn't drive to the TSBD together AT ALL on 11/22/63. It was all made up by big fat xxxx Wesley--just like the paper bag. Right, Jimmy?

Why do you have to make the debate so personal? No one testified to the effect that they saw Oswald carrying any elongated package into the TSB, no one saw him make the controversial paper bag at the TSBD, in fact there was testimony that the wrapping station was manned; guarded constantly during the entirety of each and every work day. The rifle presented by authorities as the assassination weapon was well oiled and the paper bag claimed to stealthly transport this rifle into the TSBD displayed no oil absorption. The breakdown procedure required to make the represented rifle into components short enough in length to match the details in the testimony of your carefully coached and completely unchallenged, star prosecution witness, Linnie Mae Randall, would have resulted in loose components producing scratches on the metal rifle parts jumbled in said bag. There were no such scratches. The head of the WC had a daughter who traveled the US and the world in the late 1950's with accused organized crime boss, Conrad Hilton, WC chair Warren, the year after the WC investigation, appointed the son of organized crime figure Paul Ziffren as his SCOTUS law clerk. Warren put forward the name of the lawyer of organized crime boss Henry Crown, to serve as a key WC investigative counsel, on the recommendation of his fellow SCOTUS justice, Tom Clark, who had spread the info that FBI investigators had confirmed a key informant's tip that Crown and his business partner Conrad Hilton were at the top of organized crime hierarchy. Tom Clark also nonetheless appointed Crown's son as his SCOTUS law clerk, and Crown's lawyer subsequently hired Crown's son and agreed to his becoming a law partner, and then "served" as supposedly impartial WC investigative counsel tasked with determining if Ruby or Oswald had conspirators.

But, David, you buy all of their never cross-examined witnesses, and this key piece of testimony, supported only by the young brother of this witness.:

http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh2/pdf/WH2_Randle.pdf

...Mr. BALL. I see. You figure about 2 feet long, is that right?

Mrs. RANDLE. A little bit more.

Mr. BALL. A little more than 2 feet....

...Mr. BALL. Now, with reference to the width of this bag, does that look about

the width of the bag that he was carrying?

Mrs. RANDLE. I would say so; yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. What about length?

Mrs. RANDLE. You mean the entire bag?

Mr. BALL. Yes.

Mrs. RANDLE. There again you have the problem of all this down here. It

was folded down, of course, if you would take it from the bottom-

Mr. BALL. Fold it to about the size that you think it might be.

Mrs. RANDLE. This is the bottom here, right. This is the bottom, this part down

here.

Mr. BALL. I believe so, but I am not sure. But let’s say it is.

Mrs. RANDLE. And this goes this way, right ? Do you want me to hold it?

Mr. BALL. Yes.

249

Mrs. RANDLE. About this.

Mr. BALL Is that about right? That is 28-1/2 inches.

Mrs. RANDLE. I measured 27 last time.

Mr. BALL. You measured 27 once before?

Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. How was Lee dressed that morning?...

I shouldn't have to spell this out for you, but here it is. The guy who silenced your shooter, Oswald, was out of Chicago and had ties to organized crime elements there, including the assassination of the key informant I mentioned Tom Clark got his info from, info about Hilton, Crown, and Annenberg confirmed by FBI investigators.

Reasonable people do not readily accept testimony and evidence not subject to rebuttal, cross examination or friendly investigation....jurors in criminal trails never make decisions of guilt or innocence absent those checks and balances.

Thus, the reasonable people researching the murders of JFK and Oswald, since no cross examination of witnesses or rebuttal of evidence ever took place, hold the WC to a higher standard than one where named leaders of Chicago organized crime are permitted to have cooperative associates like Warren, Clark, and Albert Jenner mixed up in the investigation or those murders, or an FBI director who accepted the bribe of free vacation lodging, for himself and for the FBI's #2, every winter from the father-in-law of Henry Crown's other son.

Call me crazy, but I believe there was a need for Earl Warren to at least present a less conflicted face of a Commission than I've just described.

You are what you post, David, and you don't post much.

Edited October 28, 2010 by Tom Scully

[David Von Pein]

No one testified to the effect that they saw Oswald carrying any elongated package into the TSB.

Wrong. Wes Frazier did. In his 11/22 affidavit.

Looks like Tom Scully wants to join DiEugenio in the "Paper Bag Never Existed" club. Weird.

Edited October 28, 2010 by David Von Pein