Jim Feemster Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 ON A VCR TAPE THAT I PURCHASED SEVERAL YEARS AGO I SEE A WOMAN IN A NURSES' UNIFORM BEING ESCORTED BY A DALLAS POLICEMAN IN A SLICKER OR DEPT. ISSUE RAINCOAT INADVERTENTLY CROSS IN FRONT OF A FILMER IN DEALY PLAZA. THE FILMER IS ON THE NORTH SIDE OF MAIN ST. MOVING NORTHWEST TOWARD ELM BEGINNING TO CROSS THE OPEN AREA BETWEEN MAIN AND ELM WHEN INTO THE CAMERA'S VIEW FROM THE NORTHEAST[FROM THE RIGHT] APPEAR THE NURSE AND POLICEMAN. THINK I READ SOMEWHERE THAT THERE WAS AN ACTUAL NURSE THAT JUST HAPPENED TO BE AT THE CORNER OF HOUSTON AND ELM OR THAT VICINITY THAT ADMINISTERED TO THE EPILEPTIC WHO HAD A SEIZURE MINUTES BEFORE KENNEDY APPROACHED THE PLAZA. WHAT SEEMS FUNNY ABOUT THIS IS THAT THE MOTORCADE HAS JUST CLEARED THE PLAZA AND PEOPLE CAN BE SEEN SPRINTING TOWARD ELM ST. AND THE GK AREA. YET HERE IS A POLICEMAN DRESSED IN A LONG BLACK RAINCOAT CALMLY WALKING THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION WITH A NURSE. WHEN HE REALIZES HE HAS WALKED INTO THE CAMERA'S VIEW HE DUCKS HIS HEAD AND SCOOTS OUT OF VIEW. HE IS SMOKING A CIGARETTE AND AS HE DUCKS AWAY YOU CAN SEE HE HAS A BADGE ON HIS POLICE HAT. OK. IF I WALKED IN FRONT OF SOMEONE TAKING HOMEMOVIES I WOULD REACT THE SAME WAY YHE POLICEMAN DOES IN THIS FILM. BUT AT 12:33 , OR SO, IN DEALY PLAZA, ON NOV. 22, IF I WAS A DALLAS POLICEMAN IN FULL UNIFORM PLUS HEAVY RAINGEAR, I DON'T THINK I WOULD BE WALKING THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION FROM WHERE SHOTS HAD BEEN FIRED AT THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. THE TAPE I HAVE DOES NOT LIST THE FILMER SO I CAN'T SAY IT WAS THE NIX FILM OR SOMEONE ELSES. BUT IF ANYONE IS FAMILAR WITH THIS SCENE COULD THE FILM BE ENHANCED TO READ THE POLICEMAN'S BADGE NUMBER AND IS THERE A LIST OF BADGE NUMBERS ANYWHERE TO IDENTIFY THIS COP? WELL THIS IS MY FIRST POSTING. I HOPE I HAVE OBSERVED THE CORRECT PROTOCOLS. JIM FEEMSTER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Richards Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 (edited) Jim, I had a hunt around and came across the following. Is this a frame from the film you referred to? James Edited February 17, 2006 by James Richards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dolva Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 (edited) this reminds me of some possible figures I spotted in a photo some time ago. I figured they had been 'doin' what comes naturally' and didn't particularly want anyone to notice. See in the door woman handbag atc. Man hat, peering around lamp next to lamp. Edited February 18, 2006 by John Dolva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Feemster Posted February 18, 2006 Author Share Posted February 18, 2006 ON A VCR TAPE THAT I PURCHASED SEVERAL YEARS AGO I SEE A WOMAN IN A NURSES' UNIFORM BEING ESCORTED BY A DALLAS POLICEMAN IN A SLICKER OR DEPT. ISSUE RAINCOAT INADVERTENTLY CROSS IN FRONT OF A FILMER IN DEALY PLAZA.THE FILMER IS ON THE NORTH SIDE OF MAIN ST. MOVING NORTHWEST TOWARD ELM BEGINNING TO CROSS THE OPEN AREA BETWEEN MAIN AND ELM WHEN INTO THE CAMERA'S VIEW FROM THE NORTHEAST[FROM THE RIGHT] APPEAR THE NURSE AND POLICEMAN. THINK I READ SOMEWHERE THAT THERE WAS AN ACTUAL NURSE THAT JUST HAPPENED TO BE AT THE CORNER OF HOUSTON AND ELM OR THAT VICINITY THAT ADMINISTERED TO THE EPILEPTIC WHO HAD A SEIZURE MINUTES BEFORE KENNEDY APPROACHED THE PLAZA. WHAT SEEMS FUNNY ABOUT THIS IS THAT THE MOTORCADE HAS JUST CLEARED THE PLAZA AND PEOPLE CAN BE SEEN SPRINTING TOWARD ELM ST. AND THE GK AREA. YET HERE IS A POLICEMAN DRESSED IN A LONG BLACK RAINCOAT CALMLY WALKING THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION WITH A NURSE. WHEN HE REALIZES HE HAS WALKED INTO THE CAMERA'S VIEW HE DUCKS HIS HEAD AND SCOOTS OUT OF VIEW. HE IS SMOKING A CIGARETTE AND AS HE DUCKS AWAY YOU CAN SEE HE HAS A BADGE ON HIS POLICE HAT. OK. IF I WALKED IN FRONT OF SOMEONE TAKING HOMEMOVIES I WOULD REACT THE SAME WAY YHE POLICEMAN DOES IN THIS FILM. BUT AT 12:33 , OR SO, IN DEALY PLAZA, ON NOV. 22, IF I WAS A DALLAS POLICEMAN IN FULL UNIFORM PLUS HEAVY RAINGEAR, I DON'T THINK I WOULD BE WALKING THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION FROM WHERE SHOTS HAD BEEN FIRED AT THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. THE TAPE I HAVE DOES NOT LIST THE FILMER SO I CAN'T SAY IT WAS THE NIX FILM OR SOMEONE ELSES. BUT IF ANYONE IS FAMILAR WITH THIS SCENE COULD THE FILM BE ENHANCED TO READ THE POLICEMAN'S BADGE NUMBER AND IS THERE A LIST OF BADGE NUMBERS ANYWHERE TO IDENTIFY THIS COP? WELL THIS IS MY FIRST POSTING. I HOPE I HAVE OBSERVED THE CORRECT PROTOCOLS. JIM FEEMSTER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Feemster Posted February 18, 2006 Author Share Posted February 18, 2006 JAMES AND JOHN, YOU ARE BOTH RIGHT! BUT I BELIEVE THERE WERE MORE FRAMES SHOWING THEM GETTING CLOSER TO FILMER AND THEN DUCKING OUT TO THE CAMERA'S RIGHT. ALSO, IS THIS THE NIX FILM? MY DAD PASSED AWAY 2 YRS. AGO. HE WAS A POLICEMAN IN LANCASTER , TEXAS IN 1963. MY UNCLE, W. A SMITH, WAS A DALLAS POLICEMAN ASSIGNED TO THE TRADE MART SECURITY, SECOND FLOOR THAT DAY. I SHOWED THEM BOTH THE TAPE AND THEY SAID THEY THOUGHT IT WAS NOT RIGHT THIS POLICEMAN WITH THE NURSE WALKING AWAY FROM THE SCENE OF THE CRIME. HOWEVER, THEY SAID, AND MY UNCLE SAYS TODAY, " OSWALD DONE IT. END OF STORY ! " MY UNCLE SAID THE ASSASSINATION WAS NEVER DISCUSSED BY COPS THAT HE KNEW. THEY WEREN'T TOLD NOT TO DISCUSS IT- THEY JUST DIDN'T. ANYWAY, I'D LIKE TO KNOW IF THIS " RAINCOAT COP " COULD BE IDENTIFIED. THANKS JIM FEEMSTER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dolva Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 I checked 5 bonds and he appears to be in one more with his hat in hand at that point. It seems to be the last bond and perhaps he and her can be seen in others without hat on head. If they had a tryst in that place at that time it's possible they were a bit naughty and definitely wanted to keep their mouths shut. They were likely there during the motorcade and might have something interesting to say. Olsen and Kay?? I have no idea otherwise. She's probably easier to id and by inference he. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Agbat Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 JAMES AND JOHN,YOU ARE BOTH RIGHT! BUT I BELIEVE THERE WERE MORE FRAMES SHOWING THEM GETTING CLOSER TO FILMER AND THEN DUCKING OUT TO THE CAMERA'S RIGHT. ALSO, IS THIS THE NIX FILM? MY DAD PASSED AWAY 2 YRS. AGO. HE WAS A POLICEMAN IN LANCASTER , TEXAS IN 1963. MY UNCLE, W. A SMITH, WAS A DALLAS POLICEMAN ASSIGNED TO THE TRADE MART SECURITY, SECOND FLOOR THAT DAY. I SHOWED THEM BOTH THE TAPE AND THEY SAID THEY THOUGHT IT WAS NOT RIGHT THIS POLICEMAN WITH THE NURSE WALKING AWAY FROM THE SCENE OF THE CRIME. HOWEVER, THEY SAID, AND MY UNCLE SAYS TODAY, " OSWALD DONE IT. END OF STORY ! " MY UNCLE SAID THE ASSASSINATION WAS NEVER DISCUSSED BY COPS THAT HE KNEW. THEY WEREN'T TOLD NOT TO DISCUSS IT- THEY JUST DIDN'T. ANYWAY, I'D LIKE TO KNOW IF THIS " RAINCOAT COP " COULD BE IDENTIFIED. THANKS JIM FEEMSTER Hi Jim and welcome to the forum! The picture that was posted of "raincoat cop" is from the end of the Bell film. This is about the best full shot of the people of which you are speaking. Not too long after the frame in question, he does walk right in front of Mark Bell, but only his cap is showing, and then only the very top for a brief period of time. I'll have to see if he shows up in any of the other films taken from the same general vicinity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dolva Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 just a couple of other thoughts: She appears to rather than being a nurse, has big hair style popular at time with a head scarf. He rather than smoking appears to cover face possibly pulling visor down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Agbat Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 just a couple of other thoughts:She appears to rather than being a nurse, has big hair style popular at time with a head scarf. He rather than smoking appears to cover face possibly pulling visor down. The police officer is *clearly* making a motion with his right hand, but it is hard to determine what that might actually be. The adjusting of hat/visor or the lighting of a cigarette are certainly possible and plausible explanations. Honestly, the first thing I thought when taking a quick glance at the Bell film was that he might be talking into a microphone in his right hand. There is no solid evidence of this, nor any correlated film or stills to support that notion. Likewise, we should be sure that he is, in fact, a police officer (although I'm reasonably certain of this based on the hat) and that he is wearing a trench/rain coat. There is the possibility that a portion of the "long coat" appearance is a false-attachment with a gentleman standing behind him. I do remember, also, from a previous post that someone noted the significance of a "white hat" vs. "black hat" amongst Dallas PD officers. If I recall correctly, the white hat signified higher rank or status. The "cop with gun" in Couch had a white hat. Is there any chance this is the same officer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ecker Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 I believe that uniformed officers with white hats were traffic cops. Other cops wore black ones. White stetson hats were worn, I believe, by homicide detectives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Agbat Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 The chapeau in question... Sorry -- quality is not very good and not suitable for micro-details. Perhaps I can come up with something better... will keep trying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royce Bierma Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 I believe that uniformed officers with white hats were traffic cops. Other cops wore black ones. White stetson hats were worn, I believe, by homicide detectives. Ron, you're right, uniformed officers with white hats as shown in the Bell clip were traffic cops, but department heads sometimes also wore white topped hats. Another example is the photo of Oswald with jail officer Wilson Warren and a younger cop without a cap. Warren has the white hat on. Roy Bierma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dolva Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 There are some insteresting apparent features of the badge. The apparent wings at the top is not in any Texas badges I've come across, but a feature of a number of other states police badges. Particularly of the neigbours, Kansas, Louisiana and Mississippi. The wings is a feature on many Mississippi emblems. The outluine as is seen on the most visible edge is very like that of Louisiana communications* police badge. The shape of the wings is very like that of some Mississippi badges. I've only come across one police pilot badge, but that is also a possibility to explore. I find this thread quite intriguing, partly for having isolated the figure in the pergola soma time ago and not thought further of it and now coming across a possibility for id. Partly by now looking at the badge and finding reason to speculate out of stte police. The woman is carrying a bag, but it also looks like something long perhaps stuck up the sleeve of her blouse extending fromn her handbag. Frank's mention of speaking into radio, and an idea that it might be an antenna from some amp in her bag, and the louisiana comm badge...?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Feemster Posted February 18, 2006 Author Share Posted February 18, 2006 There are some insteresting apparent features of the badge.The apparent wings at the top is not in any Texas badges I've come across, but a feature of a number of other states police badges. Particularly of the neigbours, Kansas, Louisiana and Mississippi. The wings is a feature on many Mississippi emblems. The outluine as is seen on the most visible edge is very like that of Louisiana communications* police badge. The shape of the wings is very like that of some Mississippi badges. I've only come across one police pilot badge, but that is also a possibility to explore. I find this thread quite intriguing, partly for having isolated the figure in the pergola soma time ago and not thought further of it and now coming across a possibility for id. Partly by now looking at the badge and finding reason to speculate out of stte police. The woman is carrying a bag, but it also looks like something long perhaps stuck up the sleeve of her blouse extending fromn her handbag. Frank's mention of speaking into radio, and an idea that it might be an antenna from some amp in her bag, and the louisiana comm badge...?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Feemster Posted February 18, 2006 Author Share Posted February 18, 2006 JOHN, I DIDN'T KNOW THESE TWO CHARACTERS WERE ON THE NORTH SIDE OF ELM BEFORE BEING PICKED UP ON THE END OF THE BELL FILM THAT FRANK AGBAT IDENTIFIED. IN THE FILM THEY REALLY LOOK LIKE THEY ARE TOGETHER AS THEY WALK ALONG THE INFEILD OF THE PLAZA. IN THE WARREN TESTIMONYS' I REMEMBER SOMEONE SAYING THEY THOUGHT IT WAS STRANGE THAT A NURSE WOULD DAMPEN A RAG OR HANKERCHIEF BY DIPPING IT IN THE POOL OF WATER THAT RUNS PARALLEL WITH HOUSTON ST. SO WHEN I SEE THESE TWO COMING FROM THE DIRECTION OF THE CORNER OF HOUSTON AND ELM AT THE END OF THE BELL FILM AND GIVEN THE TESTIMONY OF THERE BEING A NURSE IN A NURSES UNIFORM HELPING THE EPILEPTIC FELLOW I JUST ASSUMED THIS HAD TO BE THE SAME LADY. OF THE TWO I FIND " RAINCOAT COP " TO BE THE MORE SPOOKY. IN AN EMERGENCY, EVEN A DOGCATCHER BEING A SERVANT OF THE PEOPLE WOULD RUSH TO THE SOUNDS OF THE GUNS. LOOK AT ALL THE CIVILLIANS WHO RESPONDED. BUT HERE IS " RAINCOAT COP " AMBLING ALONG IN THE WRONG DIRECTION HAVING A SMOKE. SOMETHING AIN'T RIGHT. JIM FEEMSTER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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