John Simkin Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 Hale, a former FBI agent, was head of security at General Dynamics. In John la Carre’s book, The Constant Gardner, he makes the point that the head of security at large corporations are often responsible for arranging the deaths of people who pose a threat to the business interest of the company. One of the JFK conspirators named in the Torbitt document is Patrick Hoy, identified with Henry Crown as owners of "the controlling block in General Dynamics between 1960 and 1966." Also named is David Hoy, no detail given. In R.B. Cutler's 4/3/77 handwritten note to Richard E. Sprague, he says "Gary Shaw showed pictures of Frenchy around Gen'l Dynamics (Dallas?) everybody said that's Jerry Hoy." Then there's the note "that is Raoul - the guy that paid Ray - and the 'lead' tramp in Dealey Plaza." Fascinating post. Does anyone know anything about the Hoys and General Dynamics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Forman Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 In R.B. Cutler's 4/3/77 handwritten note to Richard E. Sprague, he says "Gary Shaw showed pictures of Frenchy around Gen'l Dynamics (Dallas?) everybody said that's Jerry Hoy." Then there's the note "that is Raoul - the guy that paid Ray - and the 'lead' tramp in Dealey Plaza." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Richards Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 One of the JFK conspirators named in the Torbitt document is Patrick Hoy, identified with Henry Crown as owners of "the controlling block in General Dynamics between 1960 and 1966." Also named is David Hoy, no detail given. (John Simkin quoting text) I have nothing on Patrick Hoy that can't be found on the Net but as far as David Hoy goes, there were two men by that name but I have no idea if any of them were connected to Patrick Hoy. There was a popular psychic at the time named David Hoy and then there was David Hoy the news director of station WIKY. This David Hoy was a close friend of Bill Crowe aka Bill DeMar who did a memory act at the Carousel Club. Hoy and Crowe actually attended the inauguration of JFK together. After JFK was murdered, Crowe contacted Hoy and told him that he had seen Oswald in the Carousel Club eight or nine times before the assassination. FWIW. Patrick Hoy below. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom Scully Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 (edited) One of the JFK conspirators named in the Torbitt document is Patrick Hoy, identified with Henry Crown as owners of "the controlling block in General Dynamics between 1960 and 1966." Also named is David Hoy, no detail given. (John Simkin quoting text)I have nothing on Patrick Hoy that can't be found on the Net but as far as David Hoy goes, there were two men by that name but I have no idea if any of them were connected to Patrick Hoy. There was a popular psychic at the time named David Hoy and then there was David Hoy the news director of station WIKY. This David Hoy was a close friend of Bill Crowe aka Bill DeMar who did a memory act at the Carousel Club. Hoy and Crowe actually attended the inauguration of JFK together. After JFK was murdered, Crowe contacted Hoy and told him that he had seen Oswald in the Carousel Club eight or nine times before the assassination. FWIW. Patrick Hoy below. James The first mention of Patrick H. Hoy I've been able to find, after the family's 1930 US Census entry, is this one: http://news.google.com/archivesearch?hl=en...ld&ie=UTF-8"July 18, 1949, Traverse City, Michigan Subscription - Record-Eagle - NewspaperArchie - Jul 18, 1949 ... flaming sword is something new on the fabulous Pump Room menu in Chicago as demonstrated by Patrick Hoy executive assistant to Ernest Byfield president ..." 1920 United States Federal Census Name: Patrick Hoy Home in 1920: Minneapolis Ward 6, Hennepin, Minnesota Age: 5 years Estimated Birth Year: abt 1915 Birthplace: Minnesota Relation to Head of House: Nephew Father's Birth Place: Ireland Mother's Birth Place: Ireland James Hoy 50 1930 United States Federal Census Name: Patrick Hoy Home in 1930: Minneapolis, Hennepin, Minnesota Age: 16 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1914 Relation to Head of House: Son Parent's Name: Mary A I've posted info on Hoy's 1960 move, at the invitation of General Dynamic's largest stockholder, Henry Crown, chairman of Gen Dyn's executive committee to the presidency of Gen Dyn's newly merged (1959) division, "Material Services Corp.", a supplier of concrete and construction materials founded in Chicago in 1919 by Crown and his brothers, here: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...mp;#entry160755 ....and of Hoy's promotion, 5 weeks after hire, to VP of the entire General Dynamics Corp. A description from the research of Peter Dale Scott of Hoy's mob ties, and his relationship with mob lawyer Sideny Korshak, and Hoy's role in suggesting that Crown and Crown's business partner, Conrad Hilton, of putting Korshak on permanent retainer. I could find no link between "mentalist" and ESP performer David Hoy, and Patrick Hoy. Just six months after the June, 1949 article (posted above), Pat Hoy's mentor, Ernest L. Byfield Sr., suddenly died: http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=byf...;hl=en&um=1Pump Room Run On Star System . St. Petersburg Times - Google News Archive - Jul 16, 1967 The Pump Room opened Oct. 1, 1938 Ten days later, Ernie Byfield had his star, ... The Pump Room fell on difficult days when Ernest Byfield died in 1950 The ... … , 60; President of the Sherman and Ambassadors in Chicago... - New York Times - Feb 11, 1950 After his father s-death in 1926, Mr. Byfield .s elected - of the Sherman ... Under Mr. Byfield's directorship the Pump Room of the Ambassador East became ... http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=pat...=1&ie=UTF-8 Nov 27, 1951 ... restaurant Including the Inn fhv location In hotel HOTEL SHERMAN Randolph end Clark CHICAGO Frank W Bering Board Chairman A Hart President Pat Hoy and ... **From 1943, Chicago Sun-Times Newspaper Columnist Irv Kupcinet was "installed" nightly in the Sherman Hotel group's Amabassador East Hotel Restaurant, the "Pump Room", with a telephone plugged in at his prominently positioned table. From at least 1949 until 1960, Patrick Hoy, as he ascended from executive assistant to Ernest Byfield, then as VP of the Sherman Hotel group, and finally as it's president, was immersed in an atmosphere similar to this description of Kupcinet's at the "Pump Room". Two men who Kupcinet knew from childhood, Ira and Jimmy Colitz, wrote part of Kupcinet's daily newspaper column, for many years, under the pen name, "Ivan Bunny". Ira Colitz testified to the WC that he and his brother knew Jack Ruby from school days, and that Ruby patronized their "Clover Bar", acquired about 1946, located next to the Hotel Sherman. Ruby's brother told the WC that Ruby lived at the Hotel Sherman for a time after he was discharged from the military in 1946, and stayed there when he later visited Chicago from Dallas. Until abandoned in favor of airline transport, sometime in the 1950's trains transported all VIPs coming or going from NY to LA stopped in Chicago. Ernest Byfield took advantage of this by sending limousines to the train station to transport Hollywood stars and other celebrities to the Pump Room and his three hotels. Unlike in other cities, the hotels' dining room and night spots were also enthusiastically patronized by Chicago locals and by members of the mob.** Warren Commission, Volume XXII: CE 1289 - FBI report dated June 5 ... - Dec 25 File of Ivan Bunny which appears frequently in Irv Kupcinet's ... JACK L . RUBY. IIe bought the Clover Bar next to the Sherman Hotel on Clark. Street after selling the Realto .... group of Jewish people which included Ruby, Colitz and their ... http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...H22_CE_1289.pdf Warren Commission, Volume XXII: CE 1236 - FBI report of interview ... Union Local 20467,. AFL, is quoted in IRV KUPCINET's. column "Chicago ... COMMISSION EXHIBIT NO. 1235. 2. On November 25, 1963, mini, 74PR II : ... http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...H22_CE_1236.pdf Warren Commission, Volume XXII: CE 1199 - FBI report dated ... - 12/27/08 Commission, IRA COLT= owner of the Clover Bar, and LOUIS. SCHNITZ were friends of RUBY. ... RUBY was at the Clover Bar about five years ago . RUBY at the ... http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...H22_CE_1199.pdf http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...st&p=123442 "....on the Assassination weekend, Karyn Kupcinet with friends and mobster Paul "Red" Dorfman were both in Palm Springs. While there, Dorfman was tracked down by Irv Kupcinet who asked about Ruby shooting Oswald. Dorfman said, "Sparky is the last guy you'd expect to do this. He was a nebbish sort of guy." Dear Bob, I am all too happy to give you the sources. In Kup: a Man, an Era, a City, Irv Kupcinet wrote that after Ruby shot Oswald he tracked down Paul "Red" Dorfman at Palm Springs. Page 176 Hardcover. Bonus Books, 1988 Kathy..." http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine...amp;si=6#artanc By Carol Felsenthal ....Like Kup, Lyon went out almost every night, always accompanied by his wife, Lyle. Jeff Lyon says the two columnists had a friendly competition, but there was nothing friendly about the competition between their wives. Richard Christiansen, the former chief critic for the Tribune, says that Lyle and Essee were "very conscious of status." At the all-important Pump Room, the Kupcinets emerged on top. Booth One was always theirs..... http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine...amp;si=6#artanc ...As Kup and Essee made their rounds, meeting friends and collecting items, he almost never paid their way-freeloading that would be barred by most major publications today. To the restaurateurs and club owners, however, a "Kup's Column" mention of a new chef, a new show, or a celebrity sighting was worth a lot more than the food and drinks that Kup and his party consumed. Peggy Schatz says that neither Herb Lyon nor Kup ever paid at the Chez Paree. If the nightclub "could get that one little inch [of newsprint] advantage," she says, "a $50 check, that was a cheap price.... .... "It's not fair," Lyon says, "to look at it through the lens of today." * * * Over the years, Kup expanded his roster of sources to include the underworld. He ran into "the boys" at clubs on Rush Street or at places like the Chez Paree. Kup treated them in his usual manner-a "Hi, buddy," a slap on the back, and an expectation that they, like anyone else, would be a source of tips. And they were. Audri Adams, who handled publicity for the Pump Room, says Kup got items from Tony Accardo, Sam Giancana, and Gus Alex, all major Mob figures. When Bugsy Siegel was shot to death in the Beverly Hills mansion of his girlfriend, Virginia Hill, in 1947, a True magazine reporter named Mike Stern called Kup. Hill had been hiding out, and Stern had heard she was living on money funneled to her by a local Mob bookkeeper. Stern guessed correctly that Kup might know him. Kup arranged a dinner at the Blackstone Hotel, and the bookkeeper mentioned in passing that Hill was staying in a small town in Montana. Stern found her and got his scoop. Why didn't the mobsters retaliate against Kup? Stern, now 93, says they liked him. And by then he was too powerful to harm. And he was very close to Sidney Korshak, the Los Angeles–based Mob lawyer, a childhood friend from the West Side. Korshak, who died in 1996, was an incomparable source of news for Kup, not only about Mob matters but also about Hollywood (he represented studios and studio heads) and labor (ditto unions and union bosses).... http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine...amp;si=6#artanc "The Lost World of Kup," ...According to Jerry Kupcinet, Chicago mobsters offered to send associates to Los Angeles to help expedite the investigation. Kup declined that offer-and an offer, Jerry adds, from Mayor Richard J. Daley to send some Chicago detectives to Los Angeles. "My dad was totally convinced that the [L.A.] sheriff's department could figure this out." Kup also declined to hire a private investigator, again because he did not want to offend the sheriff's detectives. He grew bitterly to regret that decision, referring to it as "a colossal blunder." Instead, he called FBI director J. Edgar Hoover, "a person I had met on many occasions," Kup noted. "He wrote a warm letter, in which he urged the police to be aggressive in their investigation."... http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine...amp;si=5#artanc "The Lost World of Kup," "....On November 30, 1963, the Saturday after the holiday, the Goddards stopped by her apartment, worried that they had not heard from her. Mark had a "funny feeling" that something was wrong. They found her nude on her back on the sofa. She had been dead for about three days, and Mark assumed that she had overdosed on pills. She was 22. ...." .... "Mr. Kupcinet went in a corner in the dining room and faced the wall and put his hand over his head and he cried like a baby." Accompanied by his lawyer and his brother Joe, a football coach at Taft High School, Kup flew to Los Angeles. His friend Sidney Korshak "took care of them," Louis Spear says. Korshak identified the body." http://books.google.com/books?id=WrgC6N_oS...3+years+korshak The Nick Tosches Reader By Nick Tosches Korshak was "a man who was more investigated by more authorities than any person I ever heard of: the FBI, the Secret Service, the local police in various communities. Never once was he ever indicted or charged with anything." "....Korshak was "a very dear friend" who would "do anything in the world for you." But Kupcinet conceded there was also a dark side." He could be very tough on some members of the Mob who would get in his way and interfere with him. He knew he had the backing of (Chicago crime boss) Tony Accardo.Tony Accardo loved him: he depended on him." Korshak, Kupcinet said, "was considered to be a fair haired boy in the organization with the blessings of Tony Accardo." According to an FBI informant, it was also through Korshak and Jake Arvey that Accardo and Gus Alex, by 1961, were able to acquire large blocks of stock in the Hilton hotel chain. Korshak was involved not only with Hilton but also with the Hyatt chain, having arranged a Teamster loan for Hyatt. He was close to the Pritzker family, who owned Hyatt, and to the Hiltons as well. Today, Korshak's son Harry is married to the sister of Trish Hilton, the widow of Nicky Hilton...." Items of interest and "coincidences": Along with Dean Acheson, former US Atty Gen. Tom Clark, knowing Crown's background, enabled Earl Warren advising his fellow commissioners on December 16, 1963, http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...bsPageId=172531 that Tom Clark had vouched for Albert Jenner's appointment as WC senior assistant counsel: http://books.google.com/books?um=1&q=r...nG=Search+Books Deep Politics and the Death of JFKý - Page 155 by Peter Dale Scott - History - 1996 - 424 pages "....Tom Clark told me afterward that it led to very high places. ... and the Hilton-Korshak retainer was in fact recommended by Patrick Hoy, a vice- president of ... " Pat Hoy was at least acquainted with Larry Bell, related to a helipad installed on the Hotel Sherman roof: http://books.google.com/books?ei=fR9fSd71E...nG=Search+Books Flying - Page 98 Aeronautics - 1956 "Airman Arthur Godfrey made the inaugural flight in a Bell 47-G helicopter and was ... Patrick H. Hoy, president; Larry Bell, president of Bell Aircraft; ..." The former wife of Hoy's late employer, Gladys Rosenthal Byfield Tartiere (Mrs. Raymond F. Tartiere) supposedly leased, with great reluctance, her 400 acre Middleburg, VA estate, "Glen Ora", to serve as the JFK family's "week end white house", from late 1960 until March, 1963. JFK shut down the 1961 Bay of Pigs CIA "Op", from Glen Ora. http://books.google.com/books?ei=fR9fSd71E...nG=Search+Books Jacqueline Bouvier Kennedy Onassis: A Life - Page 169 by Donald Spoto - Biography & Autobiography - 2000 - 416 pages "Eventually, after considerable coaxing from Walton and Clark Clifford, one of Kennedy's attorneys and advisers, Mrs. Tartiere agreed — but only to a ..." http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&q=...sa=N&tab=wp America's Queen: The Life of Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis - Page 203 by Sarah Bradford - Biography & Autobiography - 2000 - 640 pages "Bill Walton came up with Glen Ora, the property of his friend Gladys Tartiere, ... her photographs of the place; she liked it and rented it sight unseen. ..." Counsel to the President: A Memoir - Page 362 by Clark M. Clifford, Richard C. Holbrooke - Biography & Autobiography - 1991 - 709 pages "Walton soon located a beautiful four-hundred- acre estate called Glen Ora, ... There was only one problem: its owner, Gladys Tartiere, did not wish to sell ..." A public disclosure from former SS chief, seemingly at odds with protecting president: http://books.google.com/books?um=1&q=u...nG=Search+Books Secret Service Chief - Page 261 by Urbanus Edmund Baughman - Secret service - 1962 - 266 pages "It is that there is only one road that leads to the estate from the ... had a special heliport constructed and a helicopter kept in constant readiness when" Gladys and Ernest's son, Ernest Jr., was a US Army Captain, serving in OSS S1 in WWII: http://books.google.com/books?ei=fR9fSd71E...nG=Search+Books OSS Against the Reich: The World War II Diaries of Colonel David K.E. Bruce - Page 101 by David Kirkpatrick Este Bruce, Nelson D. Lankford - Biography & Autobiography - 1991 - 257 pages "One of our SI men, Byfield,'4 returned yesterday with a slight hand wound. Being on the point of boarding a transport for France, he was taking a photograph ..." Ernest Sr. suddenly left hos Chicago Hotels to "cover" the WWII European War" "Ernest Lessing Byfield, hotelier, swankster, who has never written a professional line, packed his bags to become a war correspondent for the Hearst- Chicago ..." http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...85476-2,00.html http://books.google.com/books?um=1&q=h...nG=Search+Books This Grim and Savage Game: OSS and the Beginning of U.S. Covert Operations ... - Page 259 by Tom Moon - History - 2000 - 352 pages "The OSS men who had been recruited and trained for the kidnapping plot would ... From the hospital they were transferred to the Sherman Hotel in Chicago. ..." Ernest Jr's wife from 1956 to 1970, was a White Russian noblewoman, married previously a Spaniard with fascist ties: http://news.google.com/archivesearch?hl=en...osterman+garcia Mrs. Ernest Byfield Jr. Is Dead; Active in Many Society Benefits New York Times - Aug 19, 1970 "Mrs. Byfield, the former Valentina Osterman, was born to a nobleman and 'his in_ in ... subsequently was married to Pelayo Garcia Olay, a Spanish diplomat, ... " Ernest Jr. inherited his father's Hotel Sherman group holdings, from 1950 serving as a director over president Patrick Hoy http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=...hM-SOUeAuiqilog Earl Wilson April 5, 1956 Why Wild West's Wild: Gleason In Sombrere !! "Ernie Byfield Jr., beau-about-town, a director of the Chicago Sherman and Ambassador Hotels, eloped to Williamsburg, VA, with Mrs. Vala Rubio, beautiful WHITE RUSSIAN owner of a 60 carat diamond...." JFK's landlady at Glen Ora, was married, until his 1950 death, to a man also linked to OSS in this book: http://books.google.com/books?q=raymond%20...sa=N&tab=np Wartime Washington: The Secret OSS Journal of James Grafton Rogers, 1942-1943 - Page 130 by James Grafton Rogers, Thomas F. Troy - World War, 1939-1945 - 1987 - 201 pages Tartiere, a French banker,2 drove us out as a neighbor. ... Raymond F. Tartiere may have been French, but he had been a banker in England before ... Gladys Tartiere's mother, Ernest Jr.'s grandmother, continued to reside at the Hotel Sherman group property: http://chicagojewishhistory.org/pdf/CJH.3.2002.pdf Chicago Jewish History Summer 2002. B. y 1919 "Rosenthal was spending a great ... live at the Ambassador Hotel until her death in 1970 at the age of 100" Tartiere's son from an earlier marriage was killed fighting with de Gaulle: http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=+ta...=1&ie=UTF-8 New York Times - Feb 24, 1946 "Jacques Tartiere joined de Gaulle's army and went to Syria, where he was shot in the back by Vichyites while parleying for a truce. ... " http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=+ta...=1&ie=UTF-8 Aug 20, 1941 "Friends of Mr. and Mrs. Raymond Tartiere, of Middleburg are saddened by the news of the death of their son, Lieut Jack R. Tartiere, who was killed fighting ... " In 2004, 88 year old Robert S. McNamara married the widowed second wife of Ernest Byfield Jr.: http://books.google.com/books?um=1&q=h...nG=Search+Books Washington Post - Sep 8, 2004 McNamara will wed his Italian-born sweetheart, Diana Masieri Byfield, ... decades to Ernest Byfield, a former OSS officer and public relations executive. ... Patrick Hoy pleaded guilty in 1970 to charges he borrowed millions of dollars from banks under false pretext. He was given a two year federal prison sentence: http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=hoy...=1&ie=UTF-8 Pay-Per-View - Chicago Tribune - ProQuest Archiver - Sep 23, 1970 "... public yesterday in Federal District Court revealed that Patrick H. Hoy never repaid $156738 he borrowed from the sons of Henry Crown, the industrialist. " http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=hoy...=1&ie=UTF-8 Oct 8, 1970 HOY PLEADS GUILTY; FACES SENTENCE QUIZ Hoffman Frees Jury; ... "yesterday pleaded guilty to mail fraud in applying for bank loans of more than 2 million dollars. " Compare 1966 research from Penn Jones book, and in the Torbitt manuscript, with the information available online, displayed below it: http://books.google.com/books?id=9YZxWU_Vg...2&ct=resultNASA, Nazis & JFK: The Torbitt Document & the Kennedy Assassination - Google Books Result by William Torbitt, Kenn Thomas, David Hatcher ... - 1996 - History - 238 pages 1 William Torbitt, Kenn Thomas, David Hatcher Childress 1996 Adventures ... and the Defense Industrial Security Command through the Henry Crown, Patrick Hoy ... http://www.amazon.com/Forgive-Grief-Commis...t/dp/B000IBJDY0 Forgive My Grief;: A Critical Review of the Warren Commission Report on the Assassination of President John F. Kennedy (Paperback) Product Details Paperback: 188 pages Publisher: Midlothian Mirror, Inc (1966) http://books.google.com/books?q=penn+jones...nG=Search+Books Forgive My Grief: A Critical Review of the Warren Commission Report on the ... - Page 5 by Penn Jones - 1966 - 188 pages Defense Industrial Security* Command is the most un-Democratic, dangerous and ... Defense Industrial Security Command (DISC) is the vehicle which ties each http://books.google.com/books?id=A-RJFs5Nq...e+industrial%22 Cyberculture Counterconspiracy: A Steamshovel Press Reader - Page 32 by Kenn Thomas, Steamshovel Press - Social Science - 1999 - 180 pages ... verification for the existence of Defense Industrial Security Command (DISC) , ... I have argued that veteran researcher Penn Jones wrote about DISC ... http://books.google.com/books?q=torbitt+%2...nG=Search+Books NASA, Nazis & JFK: The Torbitt Document & the Kennedy Assassination - Page 28 by William Torbitt, Kenn Thomas, David Hatcher Childress - History - 1996 - 238 pages Personnel of the Defense Industrial Agency were subject to assignment with the Defense ... The address for DISC is 3990 East Broad Street, Columbus, Ohio. ... http://books.google.com/books?q=crown%20%2...sa=N&tab=np Business Week Business - 1986 The taint has not reached to Lester or Henry Crown, both members of GD'S board. ... 25, the Pentagon's Defense Industrial Security Clearance office will ... Federal Securities Laws and Defense Contracting: Hearings Before the ... - Page 53 by United States Congress. House. Committee on Energy and Commerce. Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations - Securities fraud - 1986 ... on Lester Crown and the General Dynamics Corporation (CD) . ... defense contractor participating In the Defense Industrial Security Program, . http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&saf...amp;btnG=Search FEA seeking nominees for ‘Excellence’ awards File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML Mar 5, 2008 ... Conference Center, 3990. E. Broad St., Columbus, ..... Fitch-Gordon, a Defense Industrial Security Clearance Office associate ... http://federalvoice.dscc.dla.mil/federalvo.../2008-03-05.pdf - Similar pages Headquarters and Support Activities Joint Cross-Service Group ... File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML of the Defense Industrial Security Clearance Office and the Defense Office of ...... 3990 East Broad Street, Columbus, OH, and consolidating them with the ... http://www.defenselink.mil/brac/pdf/pt2_07_hsao.pdf - As I asked earlier in the Don B. Reynolds thread....why do you think there has been so little attention paid and research done, related to motive and opportunity of Patrick Hoy and Henry Crown in a conspiracy investigation of at the very least.....Jack Ruby? Why wasn't Crown's lawyer's appointment to the WC, given the responsibility of investigating a conspiracy, and the descriptions of Crown and Hoy in the Torbitt documents, sufficient impetus to put a lot of this "stuff", more prominently out in the CT community, over these many years? The only thing "new" here is probably McNamara's 2004 marriage to Byfield Jr's widow, and that would be treated as as much of a "fluke", as the leasing of Glen Ora to JFK. Edited January 3, 2009 by Tom Scully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Roberdeau Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 (edited) ....Good Day.... Interesting thread. Before the attack, iirc, there were several.... characters that were associated directly and indirectly with each other and/or through the Dallas-Ft. Worth-based, mega-defense contractor, General Dynamics and its subsidairies... not the least of which was Lyin' Lyndon, himself. also FYI.... WCD-1518 lists one of the DP witnesses as MALCOLM JERRY HOY. Best Regards in Research, Don Don Roberdeau U.S.S. John F. Kennedy, CV-67, "Big John," Plank Walker Sooner, or later, The Truth emerges Clearly President Kennedy "Men of Courage" speech, and JFK Assassination Research, Maps, & Discoveries for Your Considerations (Updated 12-28-08) T ogether E veryone A chieves M ore National Terror Alert for the United States: Edited January 3, 2009 by Don Roberdeau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Pat Hoy was at least acquainted with Larry Bell, related to a helipad installed on the Hotel Sherman roof: http://books.google.com/books?ei=fR9fSd71E...nG=Search+Books Flying - Page 98 Aeronautics - 1956 "Airman Arthur Godfrey made the inaugural flight in a Bell 47-G helicopter and was ... Patrick H. Hoy, president; Larry Bell, president of Bell Aircraft; ..." The Bell 47-G (MASH helicopter with girders and glass dome), was invented by Arthur Young, husband of Mrs. Ruth Forbes Paine Young, step-father of Michael Paine, Oswald's benefactor. Ruth Paine was visiting with Mr. and Mrs. Art Young, at their farm outside of Philadelphia, when Ruth wrote to Marina asking that she move to Irving with her, and then picked her up in New Orleans and drove her to Texas. BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Howard Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Pat Hoy was at least acquainted with Larry Bell, related to a helipad installed on the Hotel Sherman roof:http://books.google.com/books?ei=fR9fSd71E...nG=Search+Books Flying - Page 98 Aeronautics - 1956 "Airman Arthur Godfrey made the inaugural flight in a Bell 47-G helicopter and was ... Patrick H. Hoy, president; Larry Bell, president of Bell Aircraft; ..." The Bell 47-G (MASH helicopter with girders and glass dome), was invented by Arthur Young, husband of Mrs. Ruth Forbes Paine Young, step-father of Michael Paine, Oswald's benefactor. Ruth Paine was visiting with Mr. and Mrs. Art Young, at their farm outside of Philadelphia, when Ruth wrote to Marina asking that she move to Irving with her, and then picked her up in New Orleans and drove her to Texas. BK I suppose this is a little morbid, but do you know of John Jay Hopkins? http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?p...mp;GRid=8270772 He was the lawyer who some might say, was very responsible for the rise of GD's Electric Boat Division, when he died Henry Crown, you could say...picked up the slack until David Lewis came along...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom Scully Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 (edited) On new year's day, 1963, the last year of JFK's presidency began. From what we know unfolde later that year, and through 1964, and from later detiails contained in the Torbitt documents, can all of the following be random coincidence, or a starting point for further investigation? Patrick Hoy is president of Henry Crown's family enterprise, Material Service, a division of General Dynamics, and Hoy is also corporate VP of Gen. Dynamics. Ernest Byfield Jr., son of Hoy's late mentor at the Hotel Sherman group, and director, along with his brother, nuclear physicist Hugh Byfield, of tthe Hotel Sherman Group, where Hoy was hired away by Henry Crown, from the position of president of the Sherman Group, in 1960. Byfield Jr. was a US Army Captain in WWII, a member of OSS S1, according to the memoirs of David KE Bruce. In 1943, Byfield was the best man in the wedding of William HG Fitzgerald, Lt. Cmdr, USN, and later a philanthropist and US Ambassador to Ireland: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=w...mp;aq=f&oq= In 1963, Byfield Jr.'s mother, Gladys Rosenthal Byfield Tartiere, aka Mrs. Raymond Tartiere, had been the JFK family's "landlady" since late 1960, when she leased her 400 acres, Middleburg, VA estate, "Glen Ora", to JFK and Jackie. Byfield Jr. was married to Valentina "Vala" Osterman, described as a "white Russian noblewomen", and the former wife of a prominent emissary of Franco's Spanish regime during WWII, assigned duties in the Spanish mission in Havana, and later, in Finland. One description states that Vala's husband was assigned to Finland because his wife, Vala, spoke Russian. Vala died in 1970, and Byfield Jr. remarried.....Countess Diana Masiere. Byfield Jr. died in the late 1990's, and in 2004, Diana married 88 year old Robert S. McNamara.... Byfield Jr.'s final stepmother, widow of his fatther, Ernest Sr., was Adele Sharpe of Dallas. By 1963, Adele had been married nearly a decade to Shenley VP, Joshua A. Gollin: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...iew=getlastpost In 1963, Patrick Hoy enjoyed attorney client privilege with Material Service division of Gen. Dyn., and Henry Crown attorney, Albert E. Jenner Jr. Crown's son, John J., was, from 1959 to at least 1969, an associate, and sometime later, a law partner at Jenner's lawfirm. Late in 1963, Earl Warren sponsored Albert Jenner as assistant counsel on the WC, responsible for investigating whether the assassination of JFK, or Jack Ruby's shooting of Oswald, involved a conspiracy. Warren's daughter, Virginia, had been Hilton's escort, for several years, at social events and Hitlon Hotel openings and functions, before her 1960 marriage to John C Daly, game show panel moderator of "What's My Line" TV show. Daly was one of the last to see longtime show panelist, Dorothy Kilgallen, alive. Henry Crown had invited Virginia Warren to a private reception at the Empire State building in 1957, where he introduced Virginia Warren to his guests, Queen Elizabeth and Prince Phillip. Patrick Hoy was a close friend of Sidney Korshak and had urged Henry Crown and his hotel investment partner, Conrad Hilton, to put Korshak on permanent retainer, which they both allegedly did. Hoy's Hotel Sherman office was next to the Clover Bar, owned by Ira and Jimmy Colitz, friends of and longtime contributors to Kupcinet's daily newspaper columns. All three were friends of Jack Ruby and Ruby frequented the Clover Bar and lived at the Hotel Sherman after WWII, and stayed there as a guest when he visited Chicago from Dallas. Patrick Hoy's boss at Gen. Dynamics, Henry Crown, was the father of Lester Crown, who married Renee Crown in 1950, the sister of G. David Schine, close friend of Roy Cohn, disbarred for attempting to obtain deathbed power of attorney signature of Schenley chairman; both Schine and Cohn were bitter political enemies of RFK. Albert E. Jenner obtained a sweetheart immunity deal for Lester in a bribery prosecution of Illinois legislators by then US Atty, Jim Thompson in 1972. In 1974, Lester Crown failed to disclose that he was an unidicted co-conspirator in that bribery affair, when he was appointed to the Gen. Dynamics board of directors. When this came out in the 1980's, Lester was investigated by DISC, but Jim Thompson was, by then, governor of Illinois and interceded with DISC on Lester's behalf. Henry Crown stood, potenitally, to lose the most, financially, if the $6 billion contract/Bobby Baker senate hearings and investigation had continued. The hearings and investigation were suspended just three weeks after JFK was killed. Edited February 26, 2009 by Tom Scully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom Scully Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 (edited) Remember R. Douglas Stuart, founder of America First Committee with fellow Yale graduate student, Gerald Ford, in 1940? He's alive and well, alongside the brother of William B. Macomber, the best man in Thomas J. Devine's 1973 wedding! http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=wil...;hl=en&um=1… PETSGHEK WED IN CATHEDRal; Bride of Lieut. Commdr. Wm. G.... - New York Times - Jul 3, 1943 Lieut Ernest L. Byfield Jr., iUSA, of Chicago, was best man for! the bridegroom, who is the son ofl Commdr. William G. FitzGerald, USN, retired, .. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...6010801019.htmlPhilanthropist William H.G. FitzGerald Monday, January 9, 2006; Page B06 ...William Henry Gerald FitzGerald was a Boston native and a 1931 graduate of the U.S. Naval Academy in Annapolis, where he played baseball. After brief Navy service, he attended Harvard Law School before embarking on a business career. He returned to the Navy during World War II. From 1958 to 1960, he was deputy director for management of the International Cooperation Administration, which became the U.S. Agency for International Development..... ...He was a former vice chairman of the congressionally mandated African Development Foundation, trustee of the Corcoran Gallery of Art, chairman of the White House Preservation Fund and treasurer of the Atlantic Council of the United States, an international affairs group. He was the senior member of the Order of Malta, a lay religious order of the Catholic church..... Survivors include his wife of 63 years, Annelise Petschek FitzGerald of Washington.... http://www.acus.org/event_blog/annual-chri...-lecture-seriesSponsorship: The Atlantic Council is grateful to the following foundations, corporations and individuals who provided support to the establishment of the Annual Christopher J. Makins Lecture Series: 2006 Sponsors Mr. Francis Finlay The Honorable C. Boyden Gray Patrons The Hon. William H.G. FitzGerald The Hon. Jan M. Lodal The Hon. John D. Macomber Lockheed Martin Corporation The Scowcroft Group The Hon. Robert D. Stuart, Jr. "John D. Macomber Profile - Forbes.com Mr. Macomber is also Chairman of the Council for Excellence in Government, Vice Chairman of The Atlantic Council of the United States, a Trustee of the ..." http://people.forbes.com/profile/john-d-macomber/48969 http://web.archive.org/web/20060722021851/...org/federal.phpA Brief History of the Federal Association The origins of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta in the United States go back to 1927 with the founding of the American Association in New York. By 1953 the membership had become so diverse that the Sovereign Council established the Western Association, based in San Francisco. For twenty years the Order grew throughout the country and in 1973, with the support of Cardinal William Baum, William H.G. FitzGerald requested that the Sovereign Council approve a third national association in the United States. On November 15, 1974, the Sovereign Council approved by formal decree the formation of the Southern Association of the Order of Malta with nine original members. Seven days later the Sovereign Council approved the transfer of eleven more Knights to the Southern Association. In 1985, the Sovereign Council approved the change of the name to the "Federal" Association to reflect more accurately the national composition of the organization.... Edited February 27, 2009 by Tom Scully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom Scully Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 (edited) What improbable number of coincidences would it take to spur greater interest in the names posted in this thread, since this seems to have made no impression, and nothing that followed it, seemed to, either? Wedding Bells for Robert McNamara (washingtonpost.com) McNamara will wed his Italian-born sweetheart, Diana Masieri Byfield, ... She was married for more than three decades to Ernest Byfield, a former OSS officer and public relations executive. ... http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...6-2004Sep7.html Nor did this: http://news.google.com/archivesearch?ned=u...yfield&um=1 Chicago Sun-Times - Chicago Sun-Times - NewsBank - Mar 7, 1993 President John F. Kennedy rented her 400-acre Glen Ora farm in Middleburg ... Surviving are a daughter, Elaine Broadhead; a son, Ernest Byfield; a sister, ... Nor even this: http://books.google.com/books?um=1&q=h...nG=Search+Books Kup's Chicago - Page 53 by Irv Kupcinet - Chicago (Ill.) - 1962 - 286 pages "But I'm a hotelman," Hoy protested. "I know nothing about mixing concrete." " Maybe not," said Crown. "But without being a cook you've done an excellent job of running the Pump Room." Yielding to Crown's persuasion, Hoy began a new career at the age of....." http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=int...;hl=en&um=1 HOY SLATED TO BE NEW PRESIDENT OF MATERIAL SERVICE Pay-Per-View - Chicago Tribune - ProQuest Archiver - Mar 31, 1960 Hoy was brought into the hotel business from industry by the late Ernest Byfield in 1946. Irving Crown, one of the founders of Material Service, ... http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=Ken...ed=us&hl=enSkylarking JAMES COPP Pay-Per-View - Los Angeles Times - ProQuest Archiver - Dec 13, 1950 AND SITTING IN the Stork Club, New York, a few nights ago-Pat -Kennedy with her newest admirer, Ernie Byfield ... Pat, you know, recently deserted Los Angeles for New. Turn to Page 6, Column 3. Continued from First Page. York, at which time her name was being constantly linked with that of Bachelor Alfredo de la Vega . . . AT THE Stork, Ernie was having a great time ...celebrat. ing what he termed "our last night of peace before declaring war on China," Pat kept telling him to be quiet-or else! http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=Mrs...user_hdate=1970Mrs. Ernest Byfield Jr. Is Dead; Active in Many Society Benefits - New York Times - Aug 19, 1970 Mrs. Ernest Byfield Jr., a prominent society woman and the wife of an advertising executive, died yesterday at her home. She was in her 50's and lived at 930 Park Avenue. Besides being an accomplished pianist, ice-skater and golfer, she was also known for her ' activities on on behalf of many fund-raising affairs for charity. subsequently was married to Pelayo Garcia Olay, a Spanish diplomat, and Dr. Fernando Rubio of Mexico. Mrs. Byfield, the former Valentina Osterman, was born to a nobleman and 'his in_ in Rmsia. 'I e . x- ily fled with the outbreak of the Bolshevik Revolution. ...Besides her husband, she leaves a sister, ,Mrs. Placido Ervesun o'f Alpine,... http://www.metmuseum.org/works_of_art/coll...032180&vT=1Dress, Evening, 1968 French silk; [no dimensions available] Gift of Nina Ervesun in memory of sister, Mrs. Vala Byfield, 1971 (1971.45) http://books.google.com/books?id=REGCAAAAI...1#search_anchor Manual of sugar companies Published by , 1953 Page 111 ...Officers: George A. Braga, President; B. Braga Rionda, Higinio Fanjul, Aurelio Portuondo, Placido A. Ervesun, and Ramon de la Cruz, Vice-Presidents;..... http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...;sec=&spon=B. RIONDA BRAGA Published: July 25, 1986 B. Rionda Braga, a sugar merchant and former president of the Francisco Sugar Group, an importing concern, died of a heart attack Tuesday while vacationing in London. He was 75 years old and lived in Alpine, N.J. Mr. Braga, born in Manhattan, was director and president of the Francisco Sugar Group from 1954 until 1970, when he retired. From 1946 to 1969, he was vice president and director of the Czarnikow-Rionda Company, a family-owned sugar company in New York. He is survived by his wife, the former Mary Sayles Booker; two sons, David, of Manhattan, and Ames, of Millbrook, N.Y.; a daughter, Pamela Brown of Washington, and four grandchildren. http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=Geo...;hl=en&um=1 Miss Suzanne B. Hooker Married to Ames Braga - New York Times - Sep 14, 1973 George H. W. Bush, chair of the Republican National Committee, escorted the bride, who-had her sister, Mrs. Alberto Mejia, as matron of honor and Miss Susan ... http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-his...ny-History.htmlCzarnikow-Rionda Company, Inc. ...By 1913 Cuba was the world's leading sugar exporter. Czarnikow-Rionda was prominent in every part of the trade. In its heyday as a broker it handled over 60 percent of Cuban sugar sales in New York and some 60 percent in the United States. The Cuban Trading Co., established in 1907 as a subsidiary or affiliate, bought sugar, arranged loans to millers and farmers, sold jute bags for transporting the milled cane, handled insurance claims, and provided legal and notary services, even resolving local disputes and acting as liaison to the Cuban government. Rionda family members were active in the business, especially Bernardo Braga Rionda, another nephew of Manuel Rionda. Several mills passed into the hands of Czarnikow, McDougall and Czarnikow-Rionda when their owners could not pay their debts. The Riondas then acquired these properties, including the sugar mills Central San Vicente, Central San Jose (reorganized as Washington Sugar Co.), Central Elia, and Central Cespedes. They also had earlier acquired Central Tuinucu. These were organized into affiliates of Czarnikow-Rionda. Francisco Sugar Co., incorporated in 1899, purchased in 1921 the common stock of the company that owned Central Elia. Its holdings, then or later, included 117 miles of railroad, a port, a cattle ranch, and an alcohol distillery. Manati Sugar Co., incorporated in 1912, operated the Riondas' largest sugar mill, Central Manati, plus more than 200,000 acres of land. Other Cuban enterprises in which Czarnikow-Rionda was involved included another alcohol distillery, two more sugar mills, a paper mill that produced cellulose from cane bagasse, a wallboard factory, and a scheme to substitute Cuban-grown kenaf for imported Asian jute in producing bags for transporting sugar. Manuel Rionda was an investor in, and first president of, the Cuba Cane Sugar Co., which in 1916 bought 17 mills, making it the largest sugar enterprise in Cuba. Backed by J.P Morgan & Co., this company controlled 16 percent of Cuba's sugar production. At its height Cuba Cane Sugar also held over 500,000 acres of purchased or leased land and 500 miles of railroad, complete with rolling stock for transporting sugarcane. Czarnikow-Rionda's fortunes reached their zenith in this period. Sugar prices rose threefold during World War I, spurring a surge in production. The postwar lifting of U.S. price controls set off a speculative frenzy that increased the value of raw sugar at least three times more in 1919. The so-called Dance of the Millions bubble burst the following year, ruining hundreds of Cuban planters and merchants. Less Dominant Role: 1920-60 Czarnikow-Rionda survived this crisis and even purchased a Philadelphia sugar refinery, W.J. McCahan Sugar Refining and Molasses Co., in 1920. However, overproduction and low prices were a problem for the Cuban sugar trade throughout the 1920s. For a brief period in the early 1920s, Walter E. Ogilvie, a businessman who helped Rionda break another firm's monopoly on coal distribution in Cuba, served as Czarnikow-Rionda's president and tried to reorganize its operations. This endeavor was not successful, and Rionda resumed the presidency. Nearly 80 percent of all Cuban sugar was being sold to U.S. markets in 1929, but the industry had to compete against tariff-protected growers in the possessions of Hawaii, the Philippines, and Puerto Rico, as well as in the mainland United States. The situation worsened during the Great Depression, as demand fell. The Francisco, Manati, and Cespedes sugar companies, forced into receivership, were reorganized under the continued control of the Riondas. Washington Sugar and Central San Vicente were sold. Cuba Cane Sugar was dissolved in 1938. Manuel Rionda died in 1943 at the age of 89 and was succeeded as president of Czarnikow-Rionda by Bernardo Braga Rionda. The sugar refinery was sold in 1944 to the American Sugar Co. The period after World War II saw the company's fortunes gradually revive. In 1960 and 1961, however, soon after Fidel Castro came to power, Czarnikow-Rionda lost all its property in Cuba, including six remaining sugar mills. Post-Cuban Role: 1960-99 With all commercial links to Cuba also severed, Czarnikow-Rionda had to find new markets. Sugar from the Dominican Republic and the Philippines replaced much of the Cuban trade. In 1961 the company financed 15 percent of a cooperative venture to establish a mill in southern Florida, which became the nation's largest. Through a new subsidiary, Osceola Farms, Inc., Czarnikow-Rionda also dismantled a Louisiana mill and reassembled it on 4,000 acres of farmland newly drained by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers near Canal Point, Florida. The Fanjul family, long associated with the Riondas (two Fanjuls had served as presidents of the Cuban Trading Co.), took a 20 percent stake in this enterprise and eventually came to own 160,000 acres of cultivated land in the area through its Flo-Sun Inc. company... Edited February 28, 2009 by Tom Scully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom Scully Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 (edited) In the post before this, I've included the info that the son of the woman who rented the weekend white house to the JFK family from late 1960, until March, 1963 (JFK killed the Bay of Pigs invasion from phones in that rented, Middleburg, VA house...) was a former OSS officer with a White Russian sister in law married to P. Ervesun, cousin and business partner of B. Rionda Braga, nephew of Manuel Rionda who was the principle in the business promoted by Wall Street's Eugene Meyer Jr., back in the teens.... In addition to the sister-in-law link, Ernie Byfield Jr. was a business partner of and son of the protege of Henry Crown's hire, Patrick H. Hoy. Hoy managed the Pump Room restaurant where Irv Kupcinet lived each evening for more than 50 years, and the Hotel Sherman where Jack Ruby lived after his WWII service, and stayed when visiting Chicago from Dallas, during the period when Ruby did as just described. Kupcinet and his columnist partners, Ira and Jimmy Colitz, knew Jack Ruby all of their lives, Ira and Jimmy were Ruby's friends and Ruby freqiented their bar, located next to the Hotel Sherman, from the latter 1940's through 1962 when he visited Chicago..... When Edward G. Hooker's daughter walked down the aisle in 1973, it was George HW Bush who gave her away to the groom, the son of B. Rionda Braga. Bush's first partner in the oil business, Thomas j. Devine of the CIA, chose as the best man at his 1973 wedding, William B. Macomber, Jr.,former OSS and CIA operative, as well as working later for the Dept. of State, evidently involved in setting Cuban sugar prices, as well as requesting a study of US defectors to eastern block countries. He attended the Senate swearing in ceremony of Sen. JFK, as a guest of Prescott Bush, who introduced Macomber to JFK, and the two became friends. Macomber married John Dulles's personal secretary and was ambassador to Turkey when he was Devine's best man: http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&q=...sa=N&tab=wpThe Fish is Red: The Story of the Secret War Against Castro - by Warren Hinckle, William W. Turner - Political Science - 1981 - 373 pages page 33 ...been no opportunity to arrange the "accident." If the countermanding cable reflected a certain ambiguity over the matter of assassination at Quarters Eye, it soon vanished. Although E. Howard Hunt in his memoirs claims the honor for himself, it appears that the first man in the CIA to suggest killing Castro was Colonel JC King, the chief of the Western Hemisphere Division... ...unsuccessfully the previous year, 1958, with former ambassador to Brazil and Peru William "Flying Tiger" Pawley to head off Castro before he came to power." King was a classic of the Cold War hybrid of doctrinaire anticommunist and buccaneer capitalist. The West Point man proved his.... page 34 On December 11, 1959, King, in a memorandum for Dulles's eyes only, contended that there now existed in Cuba a "far left" dictatorship, which, if permitted to stand, would encourage similar actions against American holdings in other Latin American countries. be given to the elimination of Fidel Castro. None of those close to Fidel such as his brother Raul or his companion Che Guevara, have the same mesmeric appeal to the masses. Many informed people believe that the disappearance of Fidel would greatly accelerate the fall of the present government."20 Dulles took King's suggestionto the crafty Richard M. Bissell Jr., his trusted deputy director for plans under whom King served in the clandestine services. A Yale man, Bissell possessed the voice of a Milton Cross and the funny ways of the professor he once had been. He had joined the CIA in 1954 at the invitation of Dulles, and that year he had engineered the overthrow of the leftist regime which had sinned against United Fruit in Guatemala. He had proceeded to oversee the development of the U-2 spy plane; Bissell was a rising star in the CIA firmament. He had readily agreed with King's recommendation that Castro be "eliminated." The decision is memorialized by a handwritten note scrawled on the King memorandum indicating that Dulles, with Bissell's concurrence, approved King's recommendations.21 The following month Bissell asked asked Colonel Sheffield Edwards, chief of the Office of Security, to find someone capable of assassinating Fidel Castro. Bissell has said that he discussed the decision with Allen Dulles, who presumably briefed Eisenhower. Bissell did not expect specific authorization from the President because, he said, such matters were always referred to obliquely so that the "chief of state can never be proved to have authorized a particular type of operation. But since there was no red light he took it as approval "to get rid of someone."22 Colonel Edwards suggested that syndicate members who had operated casinos in Havana might be willing and able to carry out the assignment. Jim O'Connell, who worked under Edwards, suggested Robert Maheu to make the approach. Maheu was on a $500 a-month CIA retainer. The agency also covered his office rent so that, as Maheu later told Senate investigators, "I would be available to them as situations arose. Maheu's job description was to deal with situations in which the CIA "didn't want to have an Agency person or a government person get caught. Maheu, for instance, took on the sleazy CIA assignment of producing a porno movie showing Indonesian President Sukarno doing unmentionable things with a woman in Moscow.... Page 79 As word of the impending invasion spread through the executive suites of American corporations the properties which had been expropriated by Castro, there was cautious optimism. The president of the Francisco Sugar Company, B. Rionda Braga, told the Wall Street Journal on Febru- ary 9, 1961 that it was "reasonable to hope that the present Cuban government will fall and American companies will be able to resume operations there." Francisco Sugar exemplified the interlock between the business world and the netherworld of intelligence. Braga's brother, George A. Braga, a Francisco director, sat on the board of Schroder's Limited, a British merchant bank that long had been the repository of a CIA contingency fund, — estimated at $50 million — which was controlled by Allen Dulles. Gerald F. Beal, the president of Schroder's New York branch, where the fund was on deposit, also was a Francisco director. The Schroder's connection dated from 1937, when Dulles, then a member of the prestigious Sullivan & Cromwell law firm that represented Schroder's, was named a bank director. When Dulles joined the CIA, other Sullivan & Cromwell partners sat in his well warmed seat on the board. The interests of the CIA and Schroder's had coincided before. The 1953 CIA-engineered coup in Iran benefited the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company the board of directors of which had been graced by a Schroder's executive for thirty years. And the 1954 overthrow of Arbenz in Guatemala made it possible for the Schroder's funded international Railways of Central America, of which Gerald Beal was board chairman, to resume profitable business as usual. When the White House gave the final green light for the Cuban invasion, a number of CIA insiders began buying the stocks of Francisco and other sugar companies the earnings of which had been depressed by the loss of Cuban plantations. Stockbrokers became curious about the sudden influx of orders as friends were cut in on the tip that cheap sugar shares might prove a sweet gamble. One astute broker called the manager of a mutual fund believed to cater to CIA types of investors. The manager revealed that the fund was very bullish on sugar stocks. The broker recommended the page 80 stocks to his firm's clients, resulting in a new wave of buying. Prices were climbing sharply when the brigade hit the beach. On April 3, the State Department issued a White Paper to prepare the American public for the invasion of Cuba.... http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=sug...;hl=en&um=1RICHES IN ROMANCE OF CUBA CANE SUGAR; Wall Street Adds $32,000,000 in... New York Times - Mar 16, 1916 With the announcement yesterday afternoon by Eugene Meyer, Jr., that the last share of $50000000 of 7 per cent. preferred stock of the Cuba Cane Sugar ... SMOOT CHARGES PLOT BY SUGAR REFINERS; OBJECTS TO INQUIRY; Sees... New York Times - Aug 8, 1922 Eugene Meyer, of the War Finance Corporation, is ready to assist in Plnancing the sugar re- Continued on Page Tliree. , Smoot's Letter to Crowder. ... Philip Graham, 48, Publisher, a Suicide; PHILIP L.GRAHAM, PUBLISHER,... - New York Times - Aug 4, 1963 His body was found in a bathroom about 1 P.M. Mr. Graham's wife, Katharine E. Graham, daughter of the late Eugene Meyer, long-time owner of The Post, ... http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=wil...;hl=en&um=1Washington Comments - New York Times - Jun 30, 1960 ... from William Macomber, an assistant Secretary of State, on the subject. The protected price for Cuban sugar, which accounts for half the island s ... CONGRESS PASSES CUBA SUGAR BILL; QUITS TILL AUGUST; Compromise... - New York Times - Jul 4, 1960 ... William B. Macomber Jr. of the State Department and Bryce N. Harlow of the ... In addition to the sugar bill, Congress completed action on a number of .. Edited March 2, 2009 by Tom Scully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Tom, In the course of your research on Patrick Hoy, Crown and General Dynamics, have you run across anything on the Electric Boat Division, which usually handles subs, being given a contract to develop a new high-speed 20 - 40 foot - motorboat - for use by Cuban raiders? Marchetti and Marks make note of this in their book The CIA and the Cult of Intelligence. Also, any General Dynamics involvement in Project Paperclip? Thanks, BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 I.B. Hale http://www.asisregionx.org/Documents/Awards Submissions/Background for Awards/IB Hale.doc http://www.asisregionx.org/Documents/Awards Submissions/Background for Awards/IB Hale.doc IB Hale served as President of ASIS in 1969-1970 and Chairman of the Board in 1970-1971. Hale suffered a sudden heart attack and passes away while serving in this capacity. His prior service to ASIS included the office of Regional Vice President-Southwestern Region; Chairman, Speaker’s Committee (1960 Seminar); Fire Protection Committee (9165-66); and General Chairman-14th Annual Seminar and Exhibits in Fort Worth. As in every project he undertook, Hale dedicated himself completely to the goals of ASIS. A graduate of Texas Christian University, Hale was named for All-American honors as a tackle and captain of the 1938 TCU football team. Hale served the FBI for 11 years during which his expertise in firearms led to his role as an instructor. He was rated as a master by the National Rifle Association and won the International Individual Pistol Championship in 1946. Born Insall Bailey Hale, September 9, 1916, in Elmont, Texas, IB Hale devoted his life to the professionalism of the industry through his activities in ASIS, his career with the FBI, and in his capacity as Manager of Industrial Security with General Dynamics, Forth Worth Division. The Darkside of Robert Hale Wrangell St. Elias http://www.mccarthy-kennicott.com/ND2005/index.html By Rick Kenyon Robert Allen Hale, AKA Papa Pilgrim, is in jail. His accusers are not the National Park Service, but rather his own family. Indicted by a Palmer grand jury on 30 felony charges including sexual assault, kidnapping and incest, the future for the high-profile McCarthy area resident looks bleak. WSEN readers are familiar with the Pilgrim family who became internationally known after the NPS closed the old mining road which was the only land access to the family’s property some 14 miles from McCarthy. …… ….It also brought international attention to the Pilgrim family. While media such as World Net Daily did a series highlighting the access issue, the Washington Post published an article spotlighting the admittedly unusual past of the family patriarch. The Anchorage Daily News took up the cause with a series of articles called “Papa’s Passage.” As our readers will recall, WSEN published many articles about the family, written by a number of reporters who are also neighbors and knew or interviewed the family. WSEN also strongly supported, and still strongly asserts, the validity of the family’s right to access their home—to Hillbilly Heaven, a term the family gave to their mountain property. But, unknown to us, their heaven was becoming anything but. Pilgrim grew up in Dallas, the son of I.B. Hale, a two-time All-American tackle who was ranked among the very best of many great players during Texas Christian University’s most triumphant football era. (He was inducted into the Texas Sports Hall of Fame in 1985.) A first-round draft pick for the Washington Redskins in 1939, the elder Hale instead chose a career in law enforcement. He became a top agent for the Federal Bureau of Investigation in Fort Worth and a close associate of FBI Chief J. Edgar Hoover. Later he became chief of security for General Dynamics, the giant military contractor. He was chairman of ASIS International, a professional association of private security firms, when he died of a heart attack in 1971. The Pilgrim children speak of Grandpa Hale in almost reverent terms, telling of his football accomplishments and of his expertise in training other FBI agents in the use of firearms. In 1958, at age 17, Robert eloped to Florida with the teenage daughter of John Connally, the future governor of Texas who rose to national attention when he was wounded by gunfire when John F. Kennedy was assassinated. According to family members, Grandpa Hale was riding in the car behind Kennedy and Connally on that tragic day. http://74.125.47.132/search? q=cache:cVxh8SazpVMJ:findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3720/is_199711/ai_n8778577+I.+B.+Hale&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us Sly Hersh’s take: The uncensored FBI reports and cables on the August break-in at Exner's Los Angeles apartment, made available for the book under the Freedom of Information Act, were urgently forwarded, in code, to J. Edgar Hoover. An FBI summary from the Los Angeles bureau, dated August 17, 1962, told Hoover something he already knew, even if some of his California agents didn't realize it. The summary described Exner as being in contact with Giancana and Rosselli and with Evelyn Lincoln. It also told Hoover something he didn't know; the Hale family and General Dynamics were linked to the break-in. "A man answering the description of the individual who entered (Exner's) apartment was observed leaving the area in an automobile registered to former Special Agent I.B. Hale who resides in Fort Worth, Texas," the summary said. "Our Dallas office has advised that. . . Hale is employed at General Dynamics. . . in charge of security." The summary noted that the crime its agents witnessed "is not being disseminated to the Los Angeles Police Department at this time." More Articles of Interest one FBI cable to Hoover, dated August 14 and marked "urgent" summarized I.B. Hale's association with the FBI and depicted him as "cooperative" in the past with Dallas agents. Hale, a prewar football star at Texas Christian University, was described as "well known in Fort Worth and . . . active in many community affairs. It is the opinion of (the FBI bureau in) Dallas (that) any additional inquiry" by the FBI into the Los Angeles break-in "would come to Hale's attention. It is also the opinion of Dallas that Hale would be completely cooperative in any interview. However, in view of the sensitive nature of Los Angeles investigation, no additional action (is) being taken in Dallas." In other words, the FBI bureau in Los Angeles was more interested in keeping up its surveillance on Judith Exner's apartment than in prosecuting a crime or trying to find out what I.B. Hale and his sons were doing there. The break-in at Exner's apartment was never investigated by the FBI, nor did it evoke a sudden rush of curiosity that fall, when the Kennedy administration's surprise selection of General Dynamics to build the TFX triggered outcries in the press and the Congress. What happened was not a cover-up, but something much more mundane. I.B. Hale, as a prominent college football star, had been one of Hoover's favorites while he was in the FBI; it would be almost reflexive for his former colleagues to find some reason not to investigate him. Most important, Judith Exner's relationship with the president and the FBI's surveillance of her were deemed state secrets that had to be kept, even if crimes were ignored in the process. http://www.religionnewsblog.com/20076/robert-hale-2 Robert “Bobby” Hale, the Scripture-quoting “Papa Pilgrim” who used the Bible to pound subservience into his 15 children, went before a judge in Alaska last month, looking old and frail beyond his 66 years as he learned his punishment — 14 years behind bars — for sexually assaulting one of his daughters. Prison time is only the latest chapter in the bizarre life of Hale, the son of a legendary TCU football player. He grew up in the west Fort Worth neighborhood of Ridglea Hills, attended Arlington Heights High School and, at age 18, eloped with the 16-year-old daughter of one of the most powerful and famous politicians in Texas history. Hale’s story, as well as the stories of those he was close to, is, indeed, nearly unbelievable. The wrinkled lines on his gray-bearded face suggest as much — early tragedy, religious extremism, family estrangement, government standoffs and a conspiracy theory that reaches all the way to the White House. ‘Hillbilly Heaven’ In the past 48 years, a lot has happened with Hale, most recently the fallen patriarch of his family’s religious compound — nicknamed “Hillbilly Heaven” — in the Alaska outback. Starting in 2002, they lived a life of subsistence — handmade clothes, no TV, only the Bible to read — on a 410-acre ranch surrounded by the Wrangell-St. Elias National Park, the largest national park in the United States. According to a family member in Fort Worth, Hale once said in a thank-you letter that he had hidden encyclopedias sent as a gift so that only he could read them. Last year, Hale told The Washington Post that he had ordered his children to bathe in their clothes and that they were not allowed to see each other naked. Those same children were at Hale’s sentencing in late November, when he turned a deaf ear to them as they described years of whippings, sexual abuse and psychological torture. “I can hardly believe the lips of my children,” Hale was quoted as saying in the Anchorage Daily News. He then threatened, one last time, the daughter whom he had pleaded no contest to raping. He told her, nonsensically, “I’m asking my daughter to, please, it’s got to be done.” Young wife’s death Hale was a senior at Arlington Heights High when he eloped with his girlfriend, Kathleen Connally, a junior. They married in Ardmore, Okla., moved into a modest apartment in Tallahassee, Fla., and began a marriage of young hope. It would last just over a month. Kathleen Connally Hale died April 28, 1959, from a shotgun blast behind her right ear. She was pregnant. Her husband spent the next night in jail, a Star-Telegram report said at the time. But the death was later ruled an accident, caused when the gun discharged as Hale tried to take it from his wife. Described as incoherent in the hours after his wife’s death, Hale was said to have later passed a lie-detector test, and his fingerprints were not found on the gun, despite the report that he had grabbed for it. So, authorities determined, Kathleen died during “a little squabble like kids will have.” It meant an end to Hale’s brief role as son-in-law to John Connally, then a confidant to Sen. Lyndon Baines Johnson and an attorney for Fort Worth millionaires Sid Richardson and Perry Bass. John Connally later became governor of Texas and was wounded in the assassination of President Kennedy. Connally, who died in 1993, wrote in his autobiography that he had been told that there may have been a suicide pact between his firstborn child and her new husband, and that “Bobby backed out.” “I could not shake my doubts that Kathleen would never have taken her own life if her young husband had been … kind and considerate to her in the dark moments she must have experienced,” Connally wrote. As he searched for answers, he said he was troubled by what his daughter’s landlady in Tallahassee told him: “She said she thought Kathleen was afraid — of what, she did not know.” She would not be the last 16-year-old Hale would take as a companion. His future wife and the mother of the 15 children on Hillbilly Heaven ranch was reportedly the same age when Hale courted her in the 1970s. All-American’s family More than 3,500 miles and a world of difference separate the primitive ranch in Alaska — where Papa Pilgrim held court over his flock — and the home on tree-lined Fortune Road in west Fort Worth where Bobby Hale grew up with his twin brother, Billy, and younger brother, Tommy. Their mother, Virginia, was an accomplished bridge player. Their father, I.B. Hale, was an All-American lineman for the Texas Christian University Horned Frogs football team and its captain during the team’s undefeated national championship season in 1938. He was a good friend and college roommate of another famous TCU player, Davey O’Brien. I.B. Hale was a big man in town and in Texas. After TCU, he turned down an of fer to play for the Washington Redskins so he could coach at Kilgore High School. After two seasons, Hale became an FBI agent, then security chief at the General Dynamics fighter jet plant in Fort Worth. Bobby Hale and his brothers were neighborhood fixtures in Ridglea Hills. “He was just a regular little kid,” said Bob Bryden, 92, who still lives on Fortune Road. “They played down here all the time.” After the death of Kathleen Connally Hale, Bryden said, he saw Bobby Hale outside his parents’ house and offered his condolences. “At the time it didn’t seem to have a whole lot of an effect on him,” Bryden recalled. But “he was very polite and thanked me for being concerned.” Bryden said the next time he saw Bobby Hale was after he had returned from New Mexico, where “he got into some kind of cult or something.” “He came back from there and he was sitting in our front yard, next to our tree. He had all the long hair of a hippie,” Bryden said. “My wife didn’t even recognize him.” Bryden wondered at the time “whether it was the shooting that did it, or just a loose screw.” Hale seemed to answer the question during his sentencing hearing last month in Alaska, saying the loss of his first wife had begun to turn him into a hippie. “So,” the Anchorage Daily News quoted him as saying, “I became a pilgrim.” In Fort Worth, Bryden remembered another disturbing change that eventually beset the Hale household. “Billy,” he said, “turned out just like Bobby did.” Troubled twins William “Billy” Hale’s change in lifestyle came much later and was not nearly so public. He married, was well along in raising his kids and had established himself as a respected veterinarian on the west side of Fort Worth. Then, in 1993, he chucked it all — his home in Weatherford, his job, his family life. Always known as a “devout” Baptist, Billy Hale decided to step his faith up a notch. “He wanted to go out on the street and preach. … He became a street person for a while,” said Hale’s former boss, David Ellison, who still works at Ridglea Animal Hospital. On the streets, he blended his knowledge of animals with his proselytizing, attracting a crowd by training a puppy to play dead, so he could appear to bring it back to life. “He was fantastic with his hands,” Ellison remembered. After he dropped out of sight in Fort Worth, family and friends learned that Billy Hale had wound up in the Sangre de Cristo Mountains of New Mexico, where he had reunited with his twin brother, Bobby. Bobby and his wife, Kurina, or Country Rose, were expanding his family of children — all bearing names taken from the Bible. Then, in the late winter of 1997, Patsy Hale was at her home in Weatherford when she received a call from the missing man she had been married to for 35 years. Billy told her he had managed to get down from a mountain during a driving blizzard after a heated argument with Bobby, apparently over the way Bobby was treating his children. “He was not happy with that,” Patsy Hale said in a telephone interview from her current home in Florida. The argument ended, she said, with Bobby Hale ordering his two eldest sons to take Billy to the top of a mountain and leave him there in the storm. He likely would not have made it down, Patsy Hale said, if he had not come across a ranch family that allowed him to stay in their barn that night and then drove him to safety the next day. “It was not a pleasant ending,” Patsy Hale said of her husband’s falling-out with his once-close twin. “He never saw him again for the rest of his life.” The spy episode Billy Hale’s unwavering belief that God had called him “to go preach to people who needed it” somehow drove him to Managua, the capital of Nicaragua, where he died April 9, 2004, two days after his 63rd birthday. Unable to retrieve his body, Billy Hale’s family and friends held a memorial in Fort Worth. Patsy Hale believes that her husband died from complications from diabetes, an illness he had battled even as he tried to save souls in faraway places. Unlike his twin brother, Billy Hale never made headlines. But in 1997, he, along with Bobby and their father, did make it into a notable book, The Dark Side of Camelot, by Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Seymour Hersh. Hersh said in a telephone interview that he relied on confidential FBI memos to document that in summer 1962, I.B. Hale, then General Dynamic’s security chief, dispatched his sons to break into and bug the Los Angeles apartment of Judith Campbell Exner, an alleged mistress to President Kennedy. The apparent reasons for the burglary, according to Hersh, were to gain and use information about Kennedy’s extramarital affair to pressure him into making the Pentagon pick General Dynamics for a multibillion-dollar defense contract. That same year, Defense Secretary Robert McNamara overruled recommendations by both the Air Force and the Navy and, instead, ordered the TFX fighter plane, later named the F-111, to be built at Fort Worth’s General Dynamics. Hersh says in his book that Exner’s apartment was already under FBI surveillance when two young men climbed onto a balcony. “After 15 minutes or so — more than enough time to sort through or install a wiretap — the pair fled.” The FBI “tracked the break-in team to a getaway car rented by a former FBI special agent named I.B. Hale of Fort Worth,” and “the two men who entered Exner’s apartment were identified by the FBI as Hale’s twin sons,” Hersh said in the book. Bobby Hale has since called the account “ridiculous.” A person who had been close to the Hale brothers, who did not want to be identified because of a continued relationship with the family, would only say: “I know about the twins going to LA. And I know about the [rented] Corvette. “Billy came home first. Bobby stayed. I thought it was unusual.” Papa Pilgrim Bobby Hale moved his family to Alaska in 1998 and eventually settled on the remote spread in Wrangell-St. Elias National Park. Five years later, in summer 2003, Hale became a darling for land-rights activists and anti-government crusaders when he was cited by federal authorities for bulldozing a 13-mile clearing through the national park, purportedly to gain easier access to his property. “We knew this land was in the middle of a national park,” Hale told the Anchorage Daily News at the time, “but that just meant to us [that] our neighbors would be few and far between.” Now Hale’s neighbors are called inmates. And they are only a cellblock away. His surviving brother, Tommy, 59, still lives in Fort Worth, with a good job and regular family responsibilities. In a brief telephone interview, Tommy Hale said he had no interest in discussing his family’s past problems, or his brother’s most recent legal predicament. “I don’t have anything to say in regards to my brother Bobby,” Tommy Hale said. “I haven’t seen the man since 1983.” Researcher Marcia Melton contributed to this report, which includes material from The Washington Post and the Anchorage Daily News. http://www.asisphoenix.org/id29.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixie Dea Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 (edited) Bill... That was a good article. I compiled, from several sourxes, a series of Papa Pilgrim (Bobby Hale) articles and posted them on another forum, a few months ago. However, I could never find anything about Billy Hale, other then what Hersch claimed about them.....and nothing at all about Tommy Hale. So,o was very pleased that you did. My articles includes about Papa's arrest and his trial and the kids testimonies and about his dying in prison a few months ago. If anyone would like to read it all, just let me know and I will direct you to the articles. In addition, I had included one from John Connelly's book (In Hiistory's Shadow which inclures about his daughter Kathleen and Bobby Hale. I am posting it below...it is rather distressing! _________________________________________________\ Jathleen Connelly Information from "In History's Shadow" by John Connally.1993 pages: 154-159. In 1957 Kathleen was 16, beautiful, intelligent, and popular. She had been somewhat head strong, bright, but never difficult, but towards the end of the year her parents, Nellie and John Connally, had begun to notice subtle changes. She died in the living room of a tiny apartment she had rented alone with a boy she had married and carrying his child. Nellie and John Connally had found out about her possible condition through a phone call from the school, and during a meeting with her teacher who informed them, that she thought Kathleen was pregnant. After returning home, they confronted Kathleen who assured them she had a virus, nothing else---and was certainly not pregnant. A few days later Nellie and John, who was working as legal counsel and advisor to Sid Richardson and his nephew Perry Bass, and spending much time traveling between Fort Worth and Washington. Had barely arrived in Washington when they received a phone call, from home that Kathleen was in hospital, they immediately flew back to Fort Worth only to find that she had checked out. They were told she had been admitted after hyperventilating, the records show a puzzling description: she apparently had been rolling around over and over in the grass. Her clothes were covered in burrs and grass stains, and they had no information of where she was. It soon became clear that she had been taken in by the family of Bobby Hale, her boyfriend. They again confronted her as gently as they could, with concern and not anger. That there was nothing that was so wrong that they could not help her, and begged for her to tell them what was wrong. They asked again if she was pregnant, but again she denied such. After arriving at their home, John then called Bobby and asked him to come to their home. Bobby was 18, a senior, a star of the football team. His father was I.B Hale who had been a Hall of Fame linebacker at Texas Christian Univ. in the 30s, and was chief of security at General Dynamics in Fort Worth. They spoke to the young people, separately, and both continued to deny that anything was wrong. They confronted them together, and asked Bobby if Kathleen was "in trouble" but they continued to get the same answer. But it was certain something wasn't right. Nellie and John were frustrated and close to loosing their patience and temper, and during the next few weeks, they continued to talk to Kathleen without being oppressive, or demanding, and they were perplexed. They offered continually to help, to share the pressure she was under ,that was so apparent, but she would not share the secret she felt she had to keep. They had told her they did not want her going out at night , but she did, and they awaited one night till she came home at midnight .By this time John was furious, and more frustrated the longer this continued. He was angry with her, and accused her and Bobby of lying to them, she repeatedly again stated nothing was wrong. And then he slapped her, and "Even as I did, I wished I hadn't. A thousand times since—maybe more--I have wanted to call back my hand. She was silent and "the slap echoed in my ear". She turned and went to her room.That was late in 58. John had left for Washington on business, and he had told Kathleen that he wanted to talk to her upon his return the next day. That night she loaded her clothes into the family station wagon, while Nellie pleaded and cajoled and raged and all to no avail. She drove off with her Mother begging her to stay. She had been an open, sweet child, a daughter to be envied by anyone who raised a daughter, and watched her bloom. She had never before caused them any problems or concerns. But suddenly a wall had gone up between them and it could not be penetrated, she was almost defiant in her continual statements that nothing was wrong. John and Nellie had no control and no way to help. Nellie called the police and gave them the license number; she had called John and continued to wait for his plane to arrive, at 3am he did so, as Bobby was missing as well. They had dated almost from when they first met; they liked him as everyone seemed to. They then learned they had eloped, driving to Ardmore, Oklahoma, and married by a justice of the peace. Their first information being from a letter received from Tallahassee, Florida from "K.K" as they called her. They had taken a small apartment, and Bobby had taken a job at a shipyard for seventy dollars a week. I.B Hale and John then drove to the apartment, leaving their wives behind with other children, to see if they could persuade them to come home. They were living in two rooms which he described as grim. Reconciliations are often more emotional than the disagreements that caused them and they asked that they come back home and finish their high school and suggested they live apart until, they did not want them to divorce, and would help support them. Kathleen seem glad to see him, nervous but with lots of hugs and kisses, and relieved. They did not want them to be living in hardship but they indicated that they wanted to stay in Tallahassee awhile longer, they would think about coming home in the fall. John gave them several hundreds of dollars and told them to find a better apartment. She seemed determined to show all that they had not made a mistake, and had taken a job in a five-and-dime store. Before they left John spoke to the landlady who owned the boarding house, and what she said did trouble him. She said she thought Kathleen was afraid—but of what she did not know. That she had seen her slip into the station wagon at night alone listening to the radio. That she was not tuned into rock and roll, she would be listening to Oral Roberts preach. John thought her immature mind was in turmoil, perhaps from guilt that what she had done was wrong ,that she had disappeared from her family, but that she would make it turn out right…Both fathers spent the day with them, and even checked on the shipyard where Bobby worked. Then they pointed the car West and headed home. They knew the truth now, Kathleen was expecting a child. They had offered their help and protection and beyond that they didn't know what to do or say. They had no high hopes for the marriage but did not want it to fail. The landlady had told him there were spats, and young-lover quarrels, which were expected. The Connallys still had, at the time he wrote his book in 93, a sense of disbelief at how quickly the events moved. Two or three weeks later, on the morning of April 28,1958, John was sitting at his desk when he received a phone call from the sheriff of Tallahassee, and speaking somewhat clumsily he said, " Mr. Connally, your daughter has been shot in the head." John said, "My God, How bad is she?" He replied "Couldn't be worse. Half her head was blown away". There was no good way, no easy way to deliver such a message. John could not fault him for insensitivity. He hung up the phone, feeling shock as almost a type of seizure. He stumbled into Sid Richardson's office and told him about the call, askimg if he could borrow one of the corporations planes so Nellie and he could fly down. Sid immediately made the arrangements and called Ed Armstrong and told him to prepare a DC-3. Then he went home to tell Nellie, news that a man never expects to tell his wife that their first born was dead. They held each other and wept. Somewhere in that time it occurred to him that the sheriff had not said Kathleen was dead. But he knew she was. They made the trip on auto-pilot the passengers not the plane. Upon arrival they drove straight to the funeral home, Bobby was there. The story he told was jumbled and almost uncoherent. He said they had quarreled, Kathleen had walked out, he had gone looking for her but did not find her, and that when he had returned to the apartment she was sitting in a chair with his loaded shotgun pointed at her head, with her finger on the trigger. At the coroner's inquest he said that she told him, "Bobby, I am sick in my mind and I need help, I know now that no one can help me." He said he tried to talk to her into putting the gun down, but she kept threatening to use it. He grab for it, he said, and the gun went off." " "Exactly what happened in that room, what was said, and what was done, we will never be completely sure."" A deputy in the sheriff's office told them there may have been a suicide pact and Bobby back out. That was one of the stories, the speculations. The inquest was held the next day but obviously no amount of testimony could show clearly what had occurred. John was one of the witnesses and asked to testify on Kathleen's state of mind, to him it was all immaterial, as she was gone, and nothing could revive her, whatever blame fault or innocence might have been attached to anyone else, was of no consequence in his mind. It all passed like a bad dream. He only wanted it to end, he was ridden with regret that the two of them could not confide in them. And he could not shake his doubts that his Kathleen, would never have taken her own life, if her young husband had been more mature, kind and considerate to her in the dark moments she must have experienced. He kept recalling the landlady telling him she seemed afraid. She had left no note, letter, no diary. Just a notice for a Doctors appointment for the next day, An autopsy was performed in the county where she died. She was flown home, and the funeral was then held at First Methodist Church in Fort Worth, she was laid to rest in the family plot a few days later. They tried to put all those thoughts behind, and John had never spoken to Bobby since. Over the years, Bobby did attempt to call him, but he would never take his call. His daughter was gone and so was Bobby Hale, as far as he was concerned. "We watched her grow, heard her laugh, and cry, lived with her anxieties, felt pride in her beauty and sweet nature. She was brunette, at sixteen taller than her mother, active, and vivacious, able to dance and sing and playact, all with ease". They never got over her death. As Nellie said "We just went on". Misfortunes followed. The Assassination of President Kennedy, at less than an arms length, the bribery trial, the bankruptcy …All were traumatic, devastating, and ate away at the soul. "However sad oo grievous, none of these can equal the burden of sorrow we will carry with us to the grave over the death of Kathleen. This is the first time I have ever discussed it in any detail, and it will also be the last." John Connally.. . _______________ Dixie Edited May 9, 2009 by Dixie Dea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 (edited) Hi Dixie, Good to hear from you. Most certainly need to read more of what you have. And its comforting to know that somebody else is going down this blind alley, which I think, if followed to the hilt, touch on all of the General Dynamics connections, which are being compounded daily, it seems. Ah, damn, I guess I'll just have to go back and read the testimony of Max Clark, Esq., open a file on Sphere, Inc., and Raymond H. Beyer, Stephen Holland and any possible association with J. W. Moore, whose file keeps getting bigger too. I don't know where to peg the others, but my guess is Max Clark should be filed under Babysitters, along with Priscilla Johnson's Old Man (with Stalan's daughter), DeMohrenschildts and Paines. Then after the assassination, Marina and Ruth Paine are cut off from each other and Marina's affairs are managed by John Martin, hotel manager, and she marries Porter, who worked for Collins Radio, another major defense contractor directly connected to Dealey Plaza. Maybe they had a team (with Braden and V. Pierra) that targeted vulnerable young women? BK Bill...That was a good article. I compiled, from several sourxes, a series of Papa Pilgrim (Bobby Hale) articles and posted them on another forum, a few months ago. However, I could never find anything about Billy Hale, other then what Hersch claimed about them.....and nothing at all about Tommy Hale. So,o was very pleased that you did. My articles includes about Papa's arrest and his trial and the kids testimonies and about his dying in prison a few months ago. If anyone would like to read it all, just let me know and I will direct you to the articles. In addition, I had included one from John Connelly's book (In Hiistory's Shadow which inclures about his daughter Kathleen and Bobby Hale. I am posting it below...it is rather distressing! _________________________________________________\ Jathleen Connelly Information from "In History's Shadow" by John Connally.1993 pages: 154-159. In 1957 Kathleen was 16, beautiful, intelligent, and popular. She had been somewhat head strong, bright, but never difficult, but towards the end of the year her parents, Nellie and John Connally, had begun to notice subtle changes. She died in the living room of a tiny apartment she had rented alone with a boy she had married and carrying his child. Nellie and John Connally had found out about her possible condition through a phone call from the school, and during a meeting with her teacher who informed them, that she thought Kathleen was pregnant. After returning home, they confronted Kathleen who assured them she had a virus, nothing else---and was certainly not pregnant. A few days later Nellie and John, who was working as legal counsel and advisor to Sid Richardson and his nephew Perry Bass, and spending much time traveling between Fort Worth and Washington. Had barely arrived in Washington when they received a phone call, from home that Kathleen was in hospital, they immediately flew back to Fort Worth only to find that she had checked out. They were told she had been admitted after hyperventilating, the records show a puzzling description: she apparently had been rolling around over and over in the grass. Her clothes were covered in burrs and grass stains, and they had no information of where she was. It soon became clear that she had been taken in by the family of Bobby Hale, her boyfriend. They again confronted her as gently as they could, with concern and not anger. That there was nothing that was so wrong that they could not help her, and begged for her to tell them what was wrong. They asked again if she was pregnant, but again she denied such. After arriving at their home, John then called Bobby and asked him to come to their home. Bobby was 18, a senior, a star of the football team. His father was I.B Hale who had been a Hall of Fame linebacker at Texas Christian Univ. in the 30s, and was chief of security at General Dynamics in Fort Worth. They spoke to the young people, separately, and both continued to deny that anything was wrong. They confronted them together, and asked Bobby if Kathleen was "in trouble" but they continued to get the same answer. But it was certain something wasn't right. Nellie and John were frustrated and close to loosing their patience and temper, and during the next few weeks, they continued to talk to Kathleen without being oppressive, or demanding, and they were perplexed. They offered continually to help, to share the pressure she was under ,that was so apparent, but she would not share the secret she felt she had to keep. They had told her they did not want her going out at night , but she did, and they awaited one night till she came home at midnight .By this time John was furious, and more frustrated the longer this continued. He was angry with her, and accused her and Bobby of lying to them, she repeatedly again stated nothing was wrong. And then he slapped her, and "Even as I did, I wished I hadn't. A thousand times since—maybe more--I have wanted to call back my hand. She was silent and "the slap echoed in my ear". She turned and went to her room.That was late in 58. John had left for Washington on business, and he had told Kathleen that he wanted to talk to her upon his return the next day. That night she loaded her clothes into the family station wagon, while Nellie pleaded and cajoled and raged and all to no avail. She drove off with her Mother begging her to stay. She had been an open, sweet child, a daughter to be envied by anyone who raised a daughter, and watched her bloom. She had never before caused them any problems or concerns. But suddenly a wall had gone up between them and it could not be penetrated, she was almost defiant in her continual statements that nothing was wrong. John and Nellie had no control and no way to help. Nellie called the police and gave them the license number; she had called John and continued to wait for his plane to arrive, at 3am he did so, as Bobby was missing as well. They had dated almost from when they first met; they liked him as everyone seemed to. They then learned they had eloped, driving to Ardmore, Oklahoma, and married by a justice of the peace. Their first information being from a letter received from Tallahassee, Florida from "K.K" as they called her. They had taken a small apartment, and Bobby had taken a job at a shipyard for seventy dollars a week. I.B Hale and John then drove to the apartment, leaving their wives behind with other children, to see if they could persuade them to come home. They were living in two rooms which he described as grim. Reconciliations are often more emotional than the disagreements that caused them and they asked that they come back home and finish their high school and suggested they live apart until, they did not want them to divorce, and would help support them. Kathleen seem glad to see him, nervous but with lots of hugs and kisses, and relieved. They did not want them to be living in hardship but they indicated that they wanted to stay in Tallahassee awhile longer, they would think about coming home in the fall. John gave them several hundreds of dollars and told them to find a better apartment. She seemed determined to show all that they had not made a mistake, and had taken a job in a five-and-dime store. Before they left John spoke to the landlady who owned the boarding house, and what she said did trouble him. She said she thought Kathleen was afraid—but of what she did not know. That she had seen her slip into the station wagon at night alone listening to the radio. That she was not tuned into rock and roll, she would be listening to Oral Roberts preach. John thought her immature mind was in turmoil, perhaps from guilt that what she had done was wrong ,that she had disappeared from her family, but that she would make it turn out right…Both fathers spent the day with them, and even checked on the shipyard where Bobby worked. Then they pointed the car West and headed home. They knew the truth now, Kathleen was expecting a child. They had offered their help and protection and beyond that they didn't know what to do or say. They had no high hopes for the marriage but did not want it to fail. The landlady had told him there were spats, and young-lover quarrels, which were expected. The Connallys still had, at the time he wrote his book in 93, a sense of disbelief at how quickly the events moved. Two or three weeks later, on the morning of April 28,1958, John was sitting at his desk when he received a phone call from the sheriff of Tallahassee, and speaking somewhat clumsily he said, " Mr. Connally, your daughter has been shot in the head." John said, "My God, How bad is she?" He replied "Couldn't be worse. Half her head was blown away". There was no good way, no easy way to deliver such a message. John could not fault him for insensitivity. He hung up the phone, feeling shock as almost a type of seizure. He stumbled into Sid Richardson's office and told him about the call, askimg if he could borrow one of the corporations planes so Nellie and he could fly down. Sid immediately made the arrangements and called Ed Armstrong and told him to prepare a DC-3. Then he went home to tell Nellie, news that a man never expects to tell his wife that their first born was dead. They held each other and wept. Somewhere in that time it occurred to him that the sheriff had not said Kathleen was dead. But he knew she was. They made the trip on auto-pilot the passengers not the plane. Upon arrival they drove straight to the funeral home, Bobby was there. The story he told was jumbled and almost uncoherent. He said they had quarreled, Kathleen had walked out, he had gone looking for her but did not find her, and that when he had returned to the apartment she was sitting in a chair with his loaded shotgun pointed at her head, with her finger on the trigger. At the coroner's inquest he said that she told him, "Bobby, I am sick in my mind and I need help, I know now that no one can help me." He said he tried to talk to her into putting the gun down, but she kept threatening to use it. He grab for it, he said, and the gun went off." " "Exactly what happened in that room, what was said, and what was done, we will never be completely sure."" A deputy in the sheriff's office told them there may have been a suicide pact and Bobby back out. That was one of the stories, the speculations. The inquest was held the next day but obviously no amount of testimony could show clearly what had occurred. John was one of the witnesses and asked to testify on Kathleen's state of mind, to him it was all immaterial, as she was gone, and nothing could revive her, whatever blame fault or innocence might have been attached to anyone else, was of no consequence in his mind. It all passed like a bad dream. He only wanted it to end, he was ridden with regret that the two of them could not confide in them. And he could not shake his doubts that his Kathleen, would never have taken her own life, if her young husband had been more mature, kind and considerate to her in the dark moments she must have experienced. He kept recalling the landlady telling him she seemed afraid. She had left no note, letter, no diary. Just a notice for a Doctors appointment for the next day, An autopsy was performed in the county where she died. She was flown home, and the funeral was then held at First Methodist Church in Fort Worth, she was laid to rest in the family plot a few days later. They tried to put all those thoughts behind, and John had never spoken to Bobby since. Over the years, Bobby did attempt to call him, but he would never take his call. His daughter was gone and so was Bobby Hale, as far as he was concerned. "We watched her grow, heard her laugh, and cry, lived with her anxieties, felt pride in her beauty and sweet nature. She was brunette, at sixteen taller than her mother, active, and vivacious, able to dance and sing and playact, all with ease". They never got over her death. As Nellie said "We just went on". Misfortunes followed. The Assassination of President Kennedy, at less than an arms length, the bribery trial, the bankruptcy …All were traumatic, devastating, and ate away at the soul. "However sad oo grievous, none of these can equal the burden of sorrow we will carry with us to the grave over the death of Kathleen. This is the first time I have ever discussed it in any detail, and it will also be the last." John Connally.. . _______________ Dixie Edited May 10, 2009 by William Kelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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