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Jim Root

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  1. Greg

    The day Edwin Walker took command of the 3rd Regiment of the FSSF he was told that he had to be "jump qualified." He went directly to a plane and had a jump master put a parachute on him, went up and jumped out of an airplane without any training. Some men thought him a fool.....all believed him to be brave enough to lead them in combat.

    At Little Rock High School Walker had his men load live amunition and fix bayonets in front of the civilians blocking the entrance of the school. He then ordered his men to aim at the civilians as he told the crowd to disperse. Some thought Walker a little over the top, none doubted that he was willing to fire on US civilians and he accomplished the mission assigned to him in a most effective and dramatic way.

    A study of Walker's whole life will show that he always did his job with enthusiasm and it was not unusual for him to, "order(ed) the program to enlarge its antiommunist mission..." or whatever mission he was assigned.

    As the DeRosa book points out the Pentagon came to the conclusion that, "it would be difficult to prove that any aspect of the program was not based on existing troop information materials"

    You also point out once again that DeRosa says, "A month after the [Overseas Weekly] story first broke, Gene Grove of the New York Post infiltrated a meeting of the John Birch Society in New York where, he reported, a member confided to the group that Robert's was secretly working with the Society." Once again this says nothing about Walker and is in line with what the author of the Overseas Weekly article said....Roberts was the man responsible for placing the Birch Material on the base.

    But, it was Walker that the "Kennedy Administration silenced" and had relieved of command only days after the story broke and without an investigation being completed! A rather rapid response by the White House and President based upon a magazine article that had been published just days earlier.

    I will continue to suggest that this supports my hypothesis that IF Oswald was allowed to defect to the Soviet Union to provide information that could be used to down a U-2 and if the downing of the U-2 on May 1, 1960 was a US intelligence coup to scuttle the Paris Summit (as John J. McCloy hoped) then the return of the "patsy" Oswald could be embarrassing to the United States if Walker had provided Oswald with the information necessary to enter the Soveit Union.

    If as Walker believed, Oswald was working for both the Soviets and the Americans, (within my hypothesis) the Soviets would have to prepare to cover their intelligence tracks where it concerned Oswald just as the OW article and dismissal of Walker provided American Intelligence with plausible deniability if Oswald attempted to point a finger at General Walker as being the man (now Right Wing Nut) who helped him into the Soviet Union. In the case of the Soviets we find that at the same time that Oswald is departing Russia, Yuri Nosenko first makes contact with CIA agents and offers to provide information for money. Immediatley following the assassination Nosenko defects to the US (while at an Arms conference which was being attended by McCloy) and just happent to have been the man that "knows" everything about Oswald's Soviet Intelligence file which of course shows Oswald had no connection to Soviet Intelligence even though he worked with radar and the U-2.

    To me it is very coincidental that both nations each had a man that would have more information about Oswald (Walker who would provide a German newspaper with informatopm about Oswalds attempt on his life and Nosenko who gathered info on Oswald for the Soviets following the assassination) but who would first be cast in a negitive light by both of their own governments. Walker and Nosenko, both castigated by their own governments, both connected to Oswald by the timing of Oswald's singular action of returning to the United States.

    Greg, I didn't find this timing thing by accident. The hypothesis made me search for it! The fact that it exists supports the hypothesis that I have developed......it does not prove it but it remains there to support it!

    As far as running programs to indoctrinate US troop I will stand by my statement that Walker had been entusiastically doing that for years prior to the Overseas Weekly article without ever running fowl of anyone.

    Jim Root

  2. What I believe

    On November 22, 1963 John F. Kennedy was assassinated!

    Since that date a lot of speculation has centered around this case but no one has conclusively proven that their particular theory of the events is true.

    There is much speculation from many researhers that can answer each of these posted questions either way....what each person wishes to believe from the conflicting research will slant how they answer those questions and how they view the answers of others.

    To me what is essential to the assassination story, whatever else YOU wish to believe is up to you, is that Lee Harvey Oswald worked in the TSBD building where a rifle and three bullet casing were found and that the motorcade was directed to pass that building, the last building it was to pass before backtracking to the Trade Mart lucheon. Lee Harvey Oswald left that building (after shots had been fired weather or not Oswald fired them is irrelevent in many ways) and was later arrested after a police officer was shot and killed.

    What is more important to me than who fired what shots is who ran the motorcade past the TSBD building and who would have known that Lee harvey Oswald worked there. Toss in who would have the ability to eliminate evidence that could have shown who knew that Oswald was working at the TSBD building prior to the motorcade route being decided upon and I think we can move this case forward......

    If a group of conspirators did assassinate the President (which I now believe they did but will admit that I have not always believed that) the search for those conspirators will not begin with what happened on Nov. 22, 1963! A successful search IMO will only be uncovered by researching what occured in the days, weeks, months, and years preceeding that date as well as what happened after that date. Understanding what brought the conspirators together and what allowed them to accomplish their goal without ever being brought to justice is the key.

    Continuous arguing over how many shots were fired and from what direction has brought us no closer to solving this case but seems, perhaps as the conspirators wished, to keep us devided in our research and away from what is really essential:

    Who were the conspirators and how did they both plan and accomplish the assassination as well as being positioned to manipulate the Warren Commission?

    Jim Root

  3. Mark

    I believe it was in the early 1970's that Congress ordered the Army to destroy all its civilian intelligence files. As I understand it the Army willingly complied.

    Have ofter wondered what they had as well!

    By the way, during the CCC days of the 1930's the military was processing tens of thousands of civilian applicants for those programs......of course an officier trained in the processing of 1000's of those applications was none other than Edwin Walker......just as he would be in charge of processing hundereds of thousands of POW's both at the end of WWII and Korean War. Is it possible that the military was scanning these folks for intelligence?????

    Jim Root

  4. [Thanks for the quick reply, Jim.

    My source is a book called Political indoctrination in the U.S. Army from World War II to the Vietnam War By Christopher S. DeRosa. You might want to check it out since it seems to be completely at odds with what you've been told.

    Greg

    Thank you for your quick reply as well. Not sure I agree that the article you pointed out is "completely at odds" with what I have been told.

    Some of the comments that I read in DeRosa's account that would of course stand out in my read:

    Walker's information officers approached the task with zeal and rare command support.

    Robert's joined the John Birch Society April 10, 1961 after he left the 24th Infantry Div.

    Kennedy Administration silenced....

    "it would be difficult to prove that any aspect of the program was not based on existing troop information materials"

    "Upholding the program while denouncing its author allowed the Pentagon to insulate itself"

    "got out of hand a little bit"

    "the record of indiscretion complied by Walker and Roberts in their affairs after April 1961 suggest that the magazine article was not far off."

    What I have from the author of the Pro Blue article for Overseas Weekly provides some interesting information:

    "...Walker's PR guy, a col I think (Roberts)....sponsored a talk by a g(G)erman I believe named w(W)illie s(S)chramm who advocated a first strike by the US aginst Soviet forces in Czechoslovakia.

    "i(I) think it was j(J)ohn d(D)ornberg, the OW editor of German birth (now dead) who got the first hints. h(H)e assigned p(P)hyllis s(S)enter, a stunning, sexy reporter, to haunt various army social functions to develop a better picture. o(O)nce we had a sense of the extent of pro blue and the infiltration of the j(J)ohn b(B)irch society into the 24th division, i(I) was assigned full time for several months to prowl the division headquarters (at) a(A)ugsburg and get the material that would put us beyond a lwsuit."

    "but the Svengali for pro bule was that colonel (Roberts)in public affairs. he got all the birch literature displayed in the division library and cafeterias and arranged the speakers."

    The author finished our correspondence with this statement....

    "i think we're lucky that nutcase never launched his tank units across the border!!"

    From the DeRosa book we find that after Walker was gone the Pro Blue Progam continues, albeit without the enthuiastic support of the CO. From Jones we learn that the real culpruit was Roberts not Walker and that the Birch material was displayed and placed by Roberts.

    We also learn that the Overseas Weekly story was intitiated not by Birch material being displayed but by a speech advocating a first strike approach toward the Soviet Union.

    From DeRosa we learn that the Pentagon denounced the author (Walker) to insulate itself and that the Kennedy administration wanted Walker silenced. This fits very well with my scenerio.

    Greg, for myself this story is one piece of a rather large amount of research that I have done into the assassination. My research has led me to investigate many aspects of Edwin Walker's life including this particular event. Repeatedly I have been able to overlap timelines that, at least in my mind, suggest that events that became as spectacular as the Pro Blue program did in fact become, may be linked to other events, such as Oswald's desire to return to the United States. Things such as the FBI being ordered to begin watching Oswald within 30 days of the assassination attempt on Walker's life based upon an infomant known as T-2 who reported an event that Dallas FBI Agent Hosty suggests never occured. Too many things dealing with Oswald SEEM to impact the life of Edwin Walker....even a June 1963 letter from future Warren Commissioner John J. McCloy to Edwin Walker penned at the same time McCloy is in a dispute with Kennedy over the Limited Test Ban Treaty.....

    If, and yes I do say IF, Oswald had been helped into the Soviet Union by Walker, and if this help was provided to insure the failure of the Paris Summit (which McCloy wanted to see fail) then Walker becomes a liability if he can be identified by a returning defector named Oswald. The story that nutralizes this liability is published exactly one day prior to the State Departments issuance of permission for Oswald to return to the US. If McCloy is so enraged with Kennedy that he were to plan an assassination that would use Oswald as his "patsy," just as he may have used him to scuttle the Paris Summit, McCloy would need to nutralize Walker again.....McCloy's letter to Walker would suffice, I believe. (The letter refers to Sylvanus Thayer and a most important date in the career of Sylvanus Thayer was November 22)

    To many coincidences.....to much missing evidence.......passanger list for Oswald's flight from London to Helsinki (at the same time that Walker was traveling in Europe), Hosty's third note not put into evidence for all to see who had access to that information (Oswald's place of employment prior to the planing of the motorcade route), the coverup of the "Raleigh Call" that was made to a man who, at a minimum, shared the name of an NSA employee that was closely associated with the two men who investigated Lee Harvey Oswald for potential intelligence contacts and who had previously provided information directly to John J. McCloy. (And John B. Hurt's work is still classified to this day)

    Walker, who had very close ties to Maxwell Taylor (Kennedy's choice for Chairman of the Joint Chiefs) and who did at least two delicate missions for John J. McCloy during WWII, the man personally selected by Taylor to be at Littlerock and was personally selected by Taylor to be the point man during the First Straits of Taiwan Crisis, the man who organized Taylor's POW exchange in Korea, is suddenly made the scapegoat to "insulate" the Pentagon from a story that did not "prove that any aspect of the program was not based on existing troop information materials" is suspect and should be viewed in context with all the material that I have gathered in my investigation.

    Yes just another single piece of a very large puzzle and yes it does fit very neatly into the grand picture.

    Appreciate the questions and information,

    Jim Root

  5. Greg

    I have spoken with the man who ran Walker's Pro Blue Program in the mid 1950's, complete with maps and what many in the 1960's would lable Right Wing Material.

    But even if you wish to disagree on the, "length, intensity and ferocious anti-anticommunist component," the fact is that the program was in existance and Walker had been using it for years prior to the Overseas Weekly article.

    I do believe that the timing is important. We cannot deny that it overlaps perfectly with Oswald's attempt to return to the United States.

    The author of the Pro Blue article even suggested, when we corresponded that the program was not even ran by Walker.

    More on that soon.

    Jim Root

  6. Personally I think that Edward Epstein and Lee Harvey Oswald both got it right!

    Epstein tells of his interview with James Jesus Angelton and the story of the Orchid Man. In this story Angelton explains how a particular insect will, without realizing it, fly into the flower of an orchid (which produces no necter to attract bees) and then engage in a sexual act with the orchid whose flower mimics the sexual organs of the female insect. The insect then exits the flower of the orchid and continues its existance unknowingly carrying the pollen of the flower. The insect then spreads the pollen to the nest orchid plant that it meets never knowing that in so doing it is perpetuating the survival of a species it is totally unrealted to. The act of a particular unsuspecting insect verity is necessary to the survival of only one particular species of orchid.

    Angleton leads us to believe that Oswald was nothing more than an insect used to spread the pollen that needed to be delivered to the next plant.

    Following the assassination of JFK and the arrest of Lee Harvey Oswald, Oswald said that he was a "patsy" and that the reason he was being arrested was because he had gone to the Soviet Union.

    I believe Oswald was speaking the truth......it was all about him being a patsy who had gone to the Soviet Union, just like he said. Really very simple, I think Oswald realized he had been nothing more than a insect who had been used by US Intelligence to spread a particular pollen that members of US intelligence wanted spread.

    If you read the information about Oswald's Spring Hill College Speech you can hear the words Oswald used to blame interests within the Soviet Union and the United States for the failure of the Paris Summit. Oswald clearly understood that the U-2 incident led to the cancilation of the Paris Summit and Oswald was perhaps uniquely capable of understanding this because of his involvement in the failure of this particular international Summit that could have led to a thawing of the Cold War.

    Oswald himself, upon his anouncement that he was defecting, had threatened to provide information to the Soviets about the U-2. Perhaps, in hind sight, Oswald did realize that because of the information he had been tricked into providing the Soviets the world was not as safe as he felt it could have been.

    If true there has never been a bigger "patsy" than Oswald and we should not be surprised if Oswald became aware of his own shortcomings it may led him to want to share with the world exactly what he knew.

    I believe that Oswald had to be watched upon his return to the United States and we know that he was watched. We can speculate that no one in US or Soviet Intelligence was quite sure who Oswald was working for (much as Edwin Walker suggested in his final interview). I believe Oswald's 201 File had to be sanitized, which even Richard Helms suggested may have happened. I believe that any suggestion that Oswald was an agent of either the Soviets or the US could have been catastrophic at that time (something that Johnson suggested in his X millions of dead comment). I believe that at least one Warren Commissioner beleived that at some point a document might be uncovered that would suggest that Oswald was and intelligece agent for some agency (that commissioner was John J. McCloy).

    I think that we will all agree that there was a need for Oswald to be at the scene of the assassination. The assassination story could not have occured as it did in fact occur without Oswald there.

    Perhaps if we can understand who had been a part of Oswald's insertion into the Soviet Union you can begin to understand how the conspirators succeeded in having Kennedy assassinated and how they escaped justice. R

    I suggest that we remember that John J. McCloy did not want the Paris Summit to happen and John J. McCloy was angry at Kennedy for pushing the Limited Test Ban Treaty of 1963.

    Interesting, the Paris Summit did not take place and Kennedy ended up dead!

    Did McCloy twice use Oswald as his "patsy" to accomplish his goals? One thing is for certain, McCloy was uniquely placed on the Warren Commission to cover up his own crime if in fact he was the key conspirator.

    Jim Root

  7. December of 1960: Oswald claims to have first applied to return to US.

    February 5, 1961: First acknowledged letter from Oswald requesting return to US and in which Oswald references his December letter that the Warren Commission speculates was never written.

    February, 1961: Walker's Pro Blue Program is up and running (which it had been since at least 1954) and Overseas Weekly is actively investigating this program

    March 20, 1961: Additional letter from Oswald forwarded to State Department.

    April 12, 1961: Overseas Weekly publishishes its article on Walker and his Pro Blue Program thrusting Edwin Walker into the Muzzling of the Military Controversey that would end his career.

    April 13, 1961: State infroms US Embassy in Moscow that Oswald will be issued a passport "available for direct return to US."

    April 17, 1961: Maj. Gen. Edwin A. Walker is relieved of command of the 24th Infantry Division in Germany.

    Quite a week for Walker that second week in April 1961. A magazine article comes out "exposing" what he has been doing for at least seven years with the full knowledge of the military brass and Walker "is tossed under the wagon" so to speak......

    oh and Lee Harvey Oswald is given permission to return to the US the day after Walker is labeled as a Right Wing Nut.

    Since I believe it was Walker who provided Oswald with the necessary information to sucessfully "defect" to the Soviet Union and since a returning Oswald could perhaps identify Walker as the man who had helped him to enter the Soviet Union (and perhaps provide the information necessary to down an American U-2 and scuttle the Paris Summit) turning Walker into a Right Wing Nut may have been necessary to protect American Intelligence......

    and a reading of the Walker Papers shows that Walker knew he was being "burned" by the CIA but he did not know why!

    Was it because Oswald was returning?????? I believe so.

    jim Root

  8. Reading some of the information here I had to add my two cents on Earl Warren:

    Earl Warren's father was murdered and the murder was never solved.

    When the Japanese from California were being interred Warren was working very closely with Asst. Sec. of War John J. McCloy

    When Warren first ran for Gov. of California, as I understand it, he received financial backing from many Wall Street interests who had interests in California. It is not to much to suggest that Wall Street insider John J. McCloy, who was impressed by Warren's work on Japanese Internment, may have helped him in this capacity.

    When Warren ran for re-election to the position of Gov. in California there was no election because Warren had won both the Democratic and the Republican primaries.

    In 1948, with the support of John J. McCloy, Earl Warren was Windel Wilke's Vice Presidential candidate.

    Prior to the 1952 election, Earl Warren was promised the "next" seat on the Supreme Court for agreeing to stay out of the Republican Primary against Eisenhower. This allowed Eisenhower to win the Republican Primary with virtually no opposition. It is believed that McCloy brokered this deal and then, when the next seat open on the Supreme Court was the seat of Chief Justice, McCloy then influenced Eisenhower to honor his word (interesting to note that I believe at the moment of the assassination of JFK McCloy was actually lunching with Eisenhower).

    McCloy believed very strongly that the guarentees of racial equality and racial integration were paramount issues that would be used by the Soviets during the Cold War to promote civil strife in the US. McCloy believed that the US must act to eliminate this potential internal wedge issue in a positive and progressive manner. McCloy himself authored the rules that integrated the military and by pushing Warren into the position of Chief Justice seems to have influenced the Warren Court and the Nation in this direction as well.....

    In the first meeting of the Warren Commission McCloy let Warren know that it would not be his perogitive to choose the Lead Attorney......McCloy would control that........

    Etc., Etc.

    Just some thoughts!

    Jim Root

  9. Did Oswald, by calling that number and asking for John B. Hurt, sign his own death warrant? Depends on whose number it was, and who answered the phone that night. But my suspicion is that Oswald's death was hastened by that phone call. [And unlike Harry Holmes, I'm just an amateur "suspicioner."]

    Ditto

    Jim Root

  10. Mark

    There is no record of any call to Raleign in the DPD Phone logs. If there had been this controversy would have long since been more clearly researched. There is a contemporary news film clip of a reporter mentioning the attempted call (just prior to the assassination of Lee Harvey Oswald) as well as all the information that was examined at the HSCA hearings.

    In 1963 a person to person collect phone call was only completed if the person on the other end accepted the charges. Once a person knew who was attempting to call them or if the intended recipiant of the call was not home home a choice could be made to accept or decline the call. This ttype of call could take a substantial amount of time to connect in 1963 and required operator assisstance. For myself it was not unusual to make this type of call to alert a girlfirend of some information without ever being charged for "sending" the information and without ever speaking to her. No call completed, no charges, no record. The perfect cut out type call.

    I believe the information available supports this. In Oswald's attempts to contact Jonnathan Apt the operator had to access multiple numbers and made multiple attempts. It is my belief that she assumed Oswald would be as aggressive in contacting this new person. Instead Oswald seemed to be indifferent to the call being accepted and the operator tossed the additional numbers that she had accessed in case Oswald wanted make addition attempts to contact the particular named person in the same geographical area. SS was available and ready but Oswald was content with the fact that no one had accepted this call.

    Two attorneys working for the Warren Commission and investigating the Silvia Odio incident speculated that the two men alledgedly with Oswald may have been able to supply Oswald with contact information or phone numbers to be used if Oswald needed to make contact for some reason. Until I uncovered this particular piece of information I was stumped to understand how Oswald would have had a number of a "cut out" to call. The fact that this speculation was made during the actual investigation intrigues me. On a side note the Edwin Walker collection at U. Of Texas Austin documents Walkers deep interest in the Odio inccident as well. One more person that is intrigued by this particular incident is Vincent Bugliosi. Bugliosi, the conspiracy skeptic, leaves the Odio incident as an open case that could perhaps be developed to uncover a potential conspiracy........but as yet he sees no evidence coming from this incident.

    For myself I speculated (with I believe good reason) on who the Raleigh Call went to. That has led me to a cache of information that, for myself, supports everything I now belive to be true dealing with who and how the conspirators were and how they came together to first inset Oswald into the Soviet Union in 1959 and then, using the physco knowledge they had about him from that operation and what was gathered as a result of his return, were positioned to have the FBI begin to monitor Oswalds activities in 1963 and finally to direct the motorcade past where Oswald was working.

    My story is complex I know. But the fact that John B. Hurt shares a name with someone Oswlad was alledgedly attempting to contact and that the work of John B. Hurt (1947-1963) is still today classified leads me to believe that Oswald may have been duped into signing his own death warrent by making that call. It would have been understood by any conspirators that a post assassination call made by an accused assassin would surely have been intercepted by the SS and passed on up the chain of command either by the perhaps who received the call but surely by those same SS men assigned to listen in on any call Oswald was making.

    Toss into this mix that two very close associates of John B. Hurt were assigned by the NSA to investigate Oswald's potential intelligence contacts and we have a clear cut example of the fox guarding the hen house.

    Jim Root

  11. Jim, Given that Hurt could master languages very well (even without formal intruction) is it possible that he taught Oswald Russian ? Or, at least tutored him in the skills to master it in a short period?

    -Bill

    Bill

    I guess one might say that anything is possible. In this case I find it highly unlikely that Oswald and John B. Hurt would have ever met. I have never seen anything that even suggests that they may have been in the same place at the same time.

    I find that it is highly likely that Edwin Walker was very much aware of John B. Hurt and may have been assigned, at one time, to monitor his activities. I also have it confirmed that John B. Hurt did provide intelligence information directly to John J. McCloy and that McCloy would have been very aware of and even directed Hurt's work. Can also make a connection between Hurt and Maxwell Taylor. Taylor and Hurt were working in the same location on the translation of Japanese Intelligence at exactly the same time but they may have been in seperate areas and may have never crossed paths. Although the former is correct to a degree I believe that there would have been many reasons why their paths may have crossed at that particular moment in time making it intirely possible that they did.

    Jim Root

  12. J Raymond Carroll

    If you read my posts you will find that I have seldom if ever written anything about Nov. 22, 1963. My research has been directed at identifying potential conspirators (primary being McCloy) rather than potential shooters.

    Hi Jim: I do indeed read your posts, and am especially grateful for your focus on Richard Helms. I am not as convinced about the level of McCloy's involvement, though it seems clear that JFK was sick of him, and no doubt the feeling was mutual.

    My comment about "the assassin" was meant to be seen as tongue-in-cheek, since I think most of us, probably including yourself, do not believe that Lee Oswald fits the bill.

    Keep up the good work.

    J Raymond Carroll

    Thank you for the compliment....

    I understand that "the assassin" comment was perhaps tongue-in-cheek and appreciate your pointing that out. I have been very careful to avoid dealing with that question for several reasons that I don't wish to go into here. But on the other side of that question is a problem that bothers me horrifically. And in all the years of my research I have never seen answered.

    How many people were required to frame Oswald and maintain the "offical position?"

    It does not seem to be to difficult of a question to answer with all the information that has been gatherd over the years.

    Let's see perhaps we could start with the development of a second Oswald, the infiltration of Oswald into the TSBD building, Parkland Hospital, the autopsy, persons on Air Force One, SS men on the ground in Dallas, recurtiment, training and placement of additional assassins, persons to collect film of the assassination and the modification of those films, the planing for and elimination of persons of importance to the investigation and over 45 years of continued cover up.

    I am sure that numerous people on this forum could provide countless names or actions of countless unnamed person that would begin to fill this list of conspirators or those in the employee of the conspirators.

    This may be tongue-in-cheek but for the past 45 years this particular methodology has not seemed to have worked successfully.

    One thing that I think that most everyon in the world that has any knowledge whatsoever of the assassination can agree upon is that Lee Harvery Oswald (in one form or another) was an essential element in the assassiantion of John F. Kennedy, conspiracy or not!

    It is my investigation into Oswald, shooter or not, and how the President and Oswald ended up in exactly the same place at exactly the right moment for the assassination to occur that leads me to suspects. This investigation has led me to believe that McCloy may well have been the primary conspirator. He had motive, he had means and most importantly he had the ability to cover up the information that very well may have pointed directly to him and it was in fact covered up. And this, according to Bugliosi, makes him a viable suspect!

    Jim Root

  13. Robert

    Yes I am aware of Bolden and what he wrote.

    In my simple mind I would guess that the SS would have followed two courses of investigation.

    The first would have been to look for records of a John Hurt/Heard in intelligence data banks since Oswald had attempted, without success, to place a call to a person of similiar name. This would explain the Bolden claim that we have no reason, especially with what we now know about the Raleign Call, to think was some accidental or unimportant action by the SS.

    The second, which I believe would have been more important, we find no record of anywhere. Simply tput it seems that it would have made since o interview or make contact with the person who the actual call went to (the original number) and who the person was that refused to accept the call (who would have said there was no John Hurt at that number). The Warren Commission interviewed thousands of people but we find no record of the call or of any interview of the recipiant of that call anywhere in the record.

    Buliosi, love him or not, was a good prosecuter. In his book he points out that if a person/s actively covers up information in an investigation it can be used as support in the proof of guilt. The information about the Raleigh Call in one of three very important pieces of information that are, without question, in fact covered up by those who investigated the assassination. In wone primary instance the information is presented before McCloy as he is questioning FBI agent Hosty and McCloy neglects to make the information a part of the record. Each of the other two pieces of information that are missing from the offical report do point to areas that McCloy can be attached to as well seems to suggest, as Bugliosi might, that McCloy must have been involved because he so willingly participated in not only withholding information from the investigation but withholding information which could associate him with the crime itself.

    We know that McCloy was in a dispute with Kennedy. We know that at the point of break between McCloy and Kennedy, Richard Helms of the CIA had the FBI begin monitoring the movements of Lee Harvey Oswald (who at the time was in Dallas and a Presidential Trip to Dallas was already in the works). We know that McCloy penned a letter to Maj. General Edwin Walker, who according to Gerrald Patrinck Hemming was involved in the insertion of Oswald into Russia (why no passenger records of Oswald's trip from London to Helsinki, another item not in the Warren Commission Report) some five months prior to the assassination but in conjuction with McCloy's break with Kennedy. We know that McCloy was insrumental in deciding who the lead counsel would be for the Warren Commission, for that matter we know that McCloy was instumental in ochestrating the entire career of Earl Warren. We know that McCloy was associated with John Hurt and his work. We know that Edwin Walker was assigned several very sensitive assignments that were of extreme interest to McCloy during WWII. And we can suggest that the actions of Edwin Walker in the immediate hours following the assassination could easily be discribed as the actions of a man who wanted to distance himself from any positive association with Lee Harvey Oswald.

    Robert, I believe that the Bolden information is conformation that the lower levels of the SS was doing their job but the highest levels, for, I am sure, reasons of National Security, were forced to cover up the results of any investigation of who John Hurt was and why in h**l Lee Harvey Oswald would have his name and attempt to contact him.

    Jim Root

  14. Jim,

    I think I asked you this question before but don't recall the answer.

    Are you familiar with John McCloy's role on the Draper Commission?

    Thanks,

    BK

    William

    You asked me in an email.....my answer was a simple yes.

    Looking deeper at McCloy you will find that he sat in on many many meetings and commissions dealing with cold war strategic planning, intelligence, Soviet Ameican Relations, Japanese American relations, etc., etc., etc., adviseor to presidents, etc., etc. More importantly he was present at the creation of the United States' modern intelligence organization and one of its prinical authors and creators. It is my belief that he remained at the pinnical of the intelligence heap for a majority of his life after 1939. As such it is my belief that he was aware of all of the most sensitve intelligence operations of the Cold War. It is, in my belief, for this reason that J. Edgar Hoover was worried about the publicity that might be generated by McCloy being on the Warren Commission, not that McCloy was a publicity seeker. McCloy worked rather quietly behind the scenes for years and years....not a seeker of publicity!

    And people who crossed McCloy ended up dead! Period!

    Jim Root

  15. Is this an interesting statement from a man whose name, if, not the person himself, would, 16 years later, be associated with the assassin of Joe Kennedy's son?

    Jim Root

    Jim: Since we all want to end this inquiry and get on with our lives, please tell us who was "the assassin of Joe Kennedy's son"?

    J Raymond Carroll

    If you read my posts you will find that I have seldom if ever written anything about Nov. 22, 1963. My research has been directed at identifying potential conspirators (primary being McCloy) rather than potential shooters. Seems that I have taken a little different approach than researchers but my approach has led to names and a plausible working theory on not only how the assassination was carried out but also covers how the Warren Commission would have been created and controlled (much by John J. McCloy in my belief) as well as how US intelligence agencies would be motivated to eliminate Oswald for the conspirators without the conspirators having to dirty their hands with this little detail.

    It can show how Oswald was not used just once to eliminate a problem for McCloy (the first being the Paris Summit that was destroyed by the downing of a U-2 on May 1, 1960) but after a disagreement with Kennedy of the Limited Test Ban Treaty of 1963 McColy would once again become the chief arms negotiator after Kennedy's death.

    Weather you want to beleive Oswald was a shooter or not it is his existance in the TSBD at the time of the assassination that was an essential element in the assassination plot. It is not who did the shooting but who wanted the shooting done and could carry it out without getting caught that is the real question.

    Wouldn't you agree?

    Jim Root

  16. Jim,

    While it's certainly possible that John B. Hurt was the Hurt whom Oswald was trying to reach, why do you think Oswald would be given this man as a contact? What could be the mutual connection between them in the assassination plot? (This may have been previously discussed, but I don't recall any specifics.)

    Ron

    1) In the Warren Commission records we find that a couple of the attorneys dealing with researching the Silvia Odio incident speculated that the men who would have been with Oswald may have provided a contact or contact phone number to Oswald. I point this out because this possibility was not first postulated by myself but by people who were charged with investigating this murder.

    2) While Oswald made repeated attempts to contact Jonathan Abt to be his attorney and had the DPD telephone operators retrieve several different numbers for Abt it is a bit of question why Oswald only attempted one call to John Hurt in Raleigh, North Carolina and seems to have been unconcerned with making any other attempts. It is my belief that the DPD operator thought that Oswald, just as he had with Abt, would want to make additional attempts and had therefore recovered two additional numbers for two other John Hurt's in the area. With SS personal at the ready, Oswald instead made no other attempt to call any other John Hurt and the operator tossed the numbers that, I believe, were never called but retrieved by the second operator and provided to the House Select Committee on Assassinations.

    3) If number one has credence then, as most people believe, the Raleigh Call may have been placed not to John Hurt but to a "cut out" that would, by the time of the call, know exactly who Lee Harvey Oswald was and would be sure to pass the name up the "chain." Second side of this is that SS was at the ready and already knew that Oswald attempted this call but may not have know for what reason.....you can bet they investigated it but what happened to that investigation and why did it not become a part of the record?

    4) Since we know that factually the work of John B. Hurt is still to this day classified whatever he was working on must have been of vital importance to the security of the United States (not looking for an argument here just stating thoughts), it would scare the hell out of the intellegence officials that would have the ability to know exactly what John B. Hurt had in fact been working on. Even more so that Lee Harvey Oswald would have the name and a number of a "cut out" and that he would use that name would instantly make the agencies of US intelligence fearful at the very least and perhaps motivate them to insure that Oswald would be quickly eliminated.

    5) The Warren Commission some how missed this little detail (a call to someone unknown) or for reasons of perhaps National Securtiy need to avoid publishing this detail

    6) The two people who investigated Oswald for potential intelligence contacts were both closely associated with John B. Hurt and his work (Rowlett and Gardiner).

    7) I think it was only the name, not the man, John B. Hurt that Oswald was to mention to a "cut out" and this would have been done by the opporator when they attempted to place a person to person call from Lee Harvey Oswald to John B. Hurt. The call never needed to be completed. If nothing else the SS men had the name.

    8) The conspirators could potentially have guarenteed the elimination of Lee Harvey Oswald if he used this name, as he did, without they themselves having to order his elimination. Nifty to say the least but they would have had to have known who John Hurt was, what his work was, who the right "cut out" would have been and how to get the info to Oswald (the Odio incident).

    9) The person I believe the call went to was involved with Operation Stella Polaris as was Rowlett and Gardner, Edwin Walker, Richard Helms and John J. McCloy.

    10) During WWII John B. Hurt was providing extrememly sensitive intelligence directly to John J. McCloy. McCloy was intimately familiar with the work of Hurt and would have known exactly the 'flags" that would have been raised by Oswald's attempt to contact a person with the name John Hurt no matter who the call went to!

    11) And once again the information did not make it into the Warren Commission Report!

    Jim Root

  17. Robert

    Love where my research has taken me surrounding John B. Hurt.

    Just for the record. Hurt was working in the "Old Munitions Building" that also housed General George Marshall and his staff. On Marshall's immediate staff (one of twelve, I believe) was the Armies best Japanese Linguist, Maxwell Taylor, who would later become Chairman of the Joint Chiefs during the Kennedy asminsitration. It is now speculated that the Armys Secret Intelligence Organization, headed by Whitney Shepardson and/or John Grombach maintained a second group of Japanese translators of which Taylor may have been a part.

    In a document written by Hurt in 1947 he states that the information was available to know beforehand, that the Japanese were going to bomb Pearl Harbor but, because of the backlog of documents to be translated, the limited number of translators, and the priority assigned to his unit of what to translate the document in question were not seen by him until several months after Dec. 7, 1941.

    Interestingly, the Black Chamber (Americas code breaking operations prior to 1930), were operated by Herbert Yardley. In one of the great mysteries of recent year espionage research is why would John Grombach (head of SI) dedicate a book to Herbert Yardley? We do know that Yardley maintained an office in New York and it is now beleived that he was still doing code for SI (Grombach, Shepardson and perhaps Shepardsons good friend, John J. McCloy).

    The best information that I have been able to gather on the relationship between these people and Richard Helms came after speculating upon whom the Raleigh call really went to and how that call (if I am correct) went quickly through this particular "cut out" and would make it to the highest levels of US Intelligence very quickly.

    While there is a degree of speculation here that I readily admit, the fact is that I have uncovered a document that many current "Cold War" crypto historians have only heard about along with a cache of letters detailing meetings with Richard Helms in the months immediately preceeding Oswald's entry into the Soviet Union. In a series of exchanges one former SI man suggests that the CIA/(by name Dick) Helms has an important mission that he wants kept at a distance from the CIA that is going to go through Helsinki, Finland in the near future. When Shepardson and others hear what this one SI person is speculating Shepardson directs the others to keep him out of the loop. Just a few months following this exchange of letters, Oswald enters the Soviet Union via Helsinki.

    This same group of SI people (of which Richard, Dick, Helms) is a part were engaged in "Operation Stella Polaris" at the end of WWII. This operation led to "Venona" or the breaking of Soviet Codes which NSA crptomen Meridith Gardner and Frank Rowlett would be in charge of. Just by chance Gardner and Rowlett would be the two men assigned by the NSA to investigate Lee Harvey Oswald potential intellegence connections. Just as a sidelight Hurt began working closely with Gardner perhaps as early as 1942.

    And, another side note, Hurt did speak many many languages.....as far as Russian, his first and third wife (one and the same) was Russian.

    Hurt's work after 1947 for the NSA is still classified. Hurt is the only one of Friedman's original team that we do not know what he was doing in the 1950's. I had an opportunity to engage a NSA historian on the subject of John B. Hurt and he assured me that Hurt's work (with hand written notes) was made directly available to John J. McCloy during WWII although there is no record of the two men ever having met directly. After several exchanges and immediate responses from this historian I asked if Hurt spoke Russian (something that family members assured me that he did). The historian took nearly six weeks to respond with a very strange email where he said that he could only confirm that Hurt spoke "these languages...." Although a long list followed Russian was not one of those listed.

    I could be wrong but it seems plausible that Hurt not only spoke Russian (something the Historian did not deny) and that his still classified work may have been in this particular field.

    I have more but will leave you with one more thought about the creation of the Warren Commission and John J. McCloy being placed upon it.

    .......And we wonder why LBJ was worried about WWIII

    Jim Root

  18. Hi Pat

    I'm not interested in entering into a dicussion about your thoughts on Gary Mack, they seem to be very clear, but I would like to share my own experiences with the man for what it is worth.

    Gary Mack has taken the time to respond to every question that I have asked of him. He has been both gracious with his time and his encouragment in my research efforts. He has never offered opinions and has been clear that he attempts to refrain from dealing speculative opinions. Mack instead makes available a huge cache of materials and willingly provides both access and help in attaining that access by making suggestions about related materials that may be of interest to the areas that I have researched. From several hours of one on one discussion with him I believe he is sincere in his efforts to provide researchers with access to the hugh amount of materials available within the facility he opperates and is helpful in providing access to and direction toward materials beyond the walls of his own facility as well.

    While this is only my opinion, I also believe that Gary Mack would be very interested in a proveable theory that would expose a conspiracy in the death of John F. Kennedy (elusive over the past 46 years). It is also my own opinion (from my exchanges with him) that Gary Mack is not interested in another conspiracy theory that is held together by opinion and speculation rather than bonded together with documented facts.

    Gary Mack seems, once again in my opinion, to set a very high standard for the "facts" that he accepts and the penetrating questions and helpful information he has provided to me has led me to become very careful in deciding what I accept as a fact as opposed to what I understand is speculation within the theory that I continue to develop. Supporting speculation with provable, documented facts is a difficult stantard but one that must be maintained if we ever wish to uncover a "real" truth behind the assassination of JFK.

    Although I have not done so recently, in the past, it has been a joy to "bounce" information off of Gary Mack and in having to defend the information that I have gathered, test the credibility of my own research.

    I look forward to and hope to be better prepared for the next opportunity I have to meet with Gary mack and share my newest documented research.

    Jim Root

  19. Thank you for posting this article William

    The final statement in the article,

    "But with Oswald forever silenced by Ruby, and intelligence services capable of expunging embarrassing data about their contacts with a Presidential assassins from their files, it is doubtful that we will ever know who, if anyone, influenced Oswald to act on November 22, 1963"

    is, I believe, not true. The fact that we can prove that Hosty's third note was "expung(ed)" from the "embarrassing data" held by "intelligence services" points to the person who did not give that piece of evidence a Commission Exhibit number, John J. McCloy!

    We know the note was written based upon the testimony of Hosty. We know that McCloy questioned Hosty about the note and even asked if Hosty had kept a copy. We must question how a man with the experience of John J. McCloy (Black Tom affair) would not see fit to give a document that identified exactly where Lee Harvey Oswald was working nearly three weeks prior to the motorcade driving past Oswald's window a Commission Exhibit number, is even possible without entertaining the idea that McCloy's failure in this particular incident was a necessary element in the cover up!

    We know the CIA has never acknowledged that it had access to that particular note although we know for a fact that Hosty's two previous notes made it to the office of Richard Helms. Is this believable? It is not difficult to speculate that the need to make sure the people's names who had access to Hosty's third note would never be known would be a paramount requirement in order to protect those responsible for the assissination of John F. Kennedy and, in addition, does seem to clearly shed light on who was responsible for covering up this particular piece of important information (and perhaps the assassination as well)!

    It is not unusual to find that a sin of omission is made to protect ones act of a sin of commission.

    Do you know of any way that I could contact Epstein?

    Jim Root

  20. Why was Oswald not firing on the motorcade before it turned on Elm? He would have had a wide open shot at the President coming down Houston. But wait till the last second and shoot.

    And why Dealey Plaza? Of all the places an assassin could get to JFK, Dealey Plaza hardly seems like a assassin friendly shooting range.....

    (these are just thoughts I have when I watch these shows on tv)

    John just a couple of thoughts:

    First as the target car approached on Houston the view from the front was obstructed by the window flaps being up above the front window and the actual car which carried Kennedy, as opposed to the one used in recreations, had a bar accross the center that would have held the "bubble" top if it had been in place. A shot fired as the car approached up Houston would have been very difficult and the line of site very poor.

    Second: While most people want to suggest that the car had to turn on Elm to approach the "trangulation of fire" so many believe is necessary, I might suggest that a shot fired at the President while he was on Houston would have tempted the driver to accelerate out of the line of fire by going straight on Houston instead of slowing to make a 130 degree turn onto Elm while shots were being fired. If that would have occured the Presidents car, as I understand it, would have driven into a road that was blocked due to construction. It seems this would have provided a much better killing zone for any professional assassins and could have still made use of what so many seem to be the patsy in the window and all the planted evidence that so many believe the conspirators went to so much trouble to plant on the 6th floor.

    Jim Root

  21. Nice post William

    Of course I read so many other posts attached that want to believe that this study is just another example of the conspirators ongoing coverup.

    For myself I have always felt that the backyard photos, in particular the two magazines Oswald is displayed holding, is consistant with Oswald's request to have Jonathon Abt act as his attorney. The two magazines were produced by two different organizations that were, to say the least, at odds with each other.

    The Warren Commission is quick to point this out and suggest that Oswald's understanding of the two organizations was an example of his lack of understanding of Communism and Socialism or political organizations and philosophy in general. Yet FBI Agent Hosty's testimony shows that the FBI in general and Hosty in particular knew that Oswald's understanding of Trotsky and his Socialist views were actually very strong.

    That the photos were taken just prior to the attempt on the life of Walker is also interesting in my mind. That Marina admited taking them seems to point toward authenticity from the begining. Toss in that Oswald did not want to admit to living in the place where the pictures were taken while in custody, yet we know that he did live there is alson, in my mind telling. Why would Oswald wish to deny that he lived in the place where the pictures were taken after he had seen the pictures while in custody?

    Then again he may have had good reason to want to deny them......

    I do believe in a conspiracy and believe that I have some interesting leads on who was behind the assassination. Of course the people that I believe were behind the assassination were the same people who, during WWII, convinced the Germans that the Allied landings at Normandy were nothing more than a deception, and continued to convince many in Germany that those landings were a deception for weeks after the proof was clear that the Normandy landings were the real deal.

    It is very easy to convince people to believe what they want to believe weather it is the truth or not seems to be of no concern to those that are already convinced of their own "truth."

    As C. S. Lewis said, “In coming to understand anything we must reject the facts as they are for us in favor of the facts as they are.”

    Jim Root

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