Robin Unger

Thanks Antti. It sounds as though Oswald may indeed have had help from someone, or some agency a hidell. shipping receipt and C.O.D document for a pistol Receipt for oswalds revolver: Note the $10.00 deposit. How was that paid to "Seaport Traders" in Los Angeles,and who paid it. And why didn't oswald just order it from Kliens sporting store when he ordered the rifle, S&W hand guns were in the same kliens advertisement as the Cacarno rifle. Did Oswald have a handler who was sending him money.

Jim. Does your image show a mans face and shoulders, with leaves hiding his face. Do you have the original image from which this photo was cropped. Hi Shanet. Yes, i beleive that Moorman was re-touched, there are just too many area's that look like they have been done with a photoshop clone brush, re-placing one part of an image with a different backround of the same photo.

QUOTE: Bill Kelly made a fascinating connection regarding the June 7, 1963 Life magazine (see my appendix). I looked through it in vain for anything as obviously JFK connected as in the Esquires. Bill called on May 14, 1994 and said it is obvious if you are familiar with a little-known story among the Kennedy assassination lore. In the magazine is a small story about dredging the underwater debris field of a nuclear sub that sank the previous April, the Thresher.

Thanks Shanet I am in the process of reading the earlier thread at the moment, i am finding some usefull information.

QUOTE: Strange court correspondence. The only Edward F. Bray I found was an officer in the CCIA, the Connecticut Contractors Industrial Association. The man Bray claimed to have film of the assassination taken from the TSBD and a film of a practice ambush staged at Denison Dam, Wyoming. Anyone else heard of this anomalous film, or films? He claims to have offered it to LIFE magazine, and that is stimulated an ONI investigation. Bray also claims to have warned Connally in a letter in August of 1963. Strange.... [the court documents refer to CIVIL ACTION 27451, 7th District Court Wyoming, 1965 "Bendix Corporation vs. Bray"] Addition to post: Larry Hancock was right. I googled BENDIX BRAY and found this in FAIRPLAY online magazine. Excerpt of long article [red text copyright Richard Bartholomew 1994] : Bill Kelly made a fascinating connection regarding the June 7, 1963 Life magazine (see my appendix). I looked through it in vain for anything as obviously JFK connected as in the Esquires. Bill called on May 14, 1994 and said it is obvious if you are familiar with a little-known story among the Kennedy assassination lore. In the magazine is a small story about dredging the underwater debris field of a nuclear sub that sank the previous April, the Thresher. As I have recently learned, only a handful of researchers -- Bill Turner, Kenneth Formet and Larry Haapanen among them -- know anything about this aspect of the assassination. According to Kelly and Haapanen, no one has ever published a word about it; a fact that is most intriguing with regard to Wing's back seat magazines. It is the Bray-Thresher story. I first read about it in Bill Kelly's excellent unpublished manuscript. In brief, Edward F. Bray sent Governor Connally a warning letter on August 12, 1963. It said that, "a plot is underway to assassinate you." Bray, who worked for the Bendix Corporation, claimed he had been visited by some men who said they were investigating the sinking of the Thresher. They said they were members of an organization known as Justice for the Crew of the Thresher (JFCOTT). The men claimed its members were planning to assassinate John B. Connally and another former Secretary of the Navy, Fred Korth. Bray reported this to the authorities three months before the assassination. He also predicted, based on what he had learned from the men, that Connally would be shot by a disgruntled ex-serviceman with a high powered rifle while riding in an open car during a parade in Dallas. The men later returned, according to Bray, and left him an 8mm film of the assassination, taken from the vantage point of the alleged assassin's lair on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository. Bray claimed that stills from the film were received by Chief Justice Earl Warren. The Bendix Corp. was the plaintiff and Bray was the defendant in a trial that took place in Natrona County, Wyoming in March, 1965. Court documents obtained by researcher Kenneth Forment indicate that Bray tried, unsuccessfully, to have the film entered into evidence. Bray claimed he later showed the film to former Presidential assistant Theodore Sorensen, at a banquet in Portland, Oregon in 1966. when contacted by Formet, however, Sorensen's office, declined to comment on anything involving the assassination of President Kennedy. Bill Kelly speculates that alternative motives were being set up for Oswald in case the `lone-nut' scenario did not hold up. The JFCOTT motive, according to Kelly, "was predicated upon Oswald's dissatisfaction with his `undesirable' military discharge." Kelly also points out that during World War II, George DeMohrenschildt lived in Washington D.C. with two men, one a British MI6 agent, and the other a U.S. Naval officer named Hall, who was later a skipper of the Thresher, but not at the time of its accident. Kelly also notes that "DeMohrenschildt also went out of his way to introduce Oswald to retired Admiral Chester `Henri' Bruton, a former nuclear sub commander who was a senior executive at Collins Radio. Burton's [sic] last job for the Navy was to redesign the Navy's communications systems with its nuclear submarine fleet." On May 21, I talked with David Gage, whom I've known for several years through local politics. He joined the Navy in 1970, was in underwater demolitions, attended Marine sniper school, and spent most of his Navy career serving submarine duty. For many years he's been involved in high-level sonar research at the University of Texas. When I mentioned the June 7, 1963 Life pictorial about the dredging operations, he surprised me by saying, "Yeah, the one showing the O-rings." I asked how he knew that. He said everyone in the submarine fraternity knows about the Thresher. He had never heard of JFCOTT or the Bray incident, however -- a fact also intriguing with regard to Wing. According to Gage, the common opinion among submarine crews is that the official story is wrong. Thresher, he said, could not have been crushed due to a failure of its pressure gauges. Subs have several backup systems and the engineers even have non-technical means of sensing depth. Gage's theory, shared by other submarine crewmen, is that Thresher was involved in an unauthorized search and destroy bluff of a Soviet sub. It is a game he admitted being involved in often. They would carry the bluff as far as opening the torpedo doors -- which can be heard by the enemy sub. When I asked if they always stopped short of firing, he said, "If they fired, no one ever admitted it." Shanet Clark. Thanks Shanet

Edited .

Robin, Forgive me if this appears elsewhere but is the group that is referred to in the letter JFO 77 , or what ? Ian <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi Ian. Yeh i must say that document is a little hard to read. I found another thread on this forum by "Wade Rhodes" which reffers to this matter. QUOTE: (JFCOTT) stands for Justice For the Crew of the Thresher http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/lofivers....php/t3219.html

Tim. I used Dons Tag: - 07HSCA175 HSCA Volume 7 / 175 And i found this. http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk..._Vol7_0088a.htm

Could this be the image of a woman. ? There appears to be a large circular "water mark" of some sort just to the left of the image in the rectangle.

Thanks Jim. I will check it out !

Hi Lee. Glad i could help.

QUOTE: According to Asst. DA Bill Alexander and reporter Hugh Aynesworth in Larry Sneed's No More Silence, the story that Oswald was a paid FBI informant was made up by Houston reporter Lonnie Hudkins. Waggoner Carr simply passed it along. Aynesworth claims that he himself made up the FBI number and gave it to Hudkins, though somebody gets the number wrong (Aynesworth says S-172, Rankin says 179). Hudkins's alleged purpose was to try to smoke out the FBI to see what they would say, and Aynesworth was just humoring Hudkins. There is also something about this in Hosty's book, which I don't have. Ron Ecker Thanks Ron.

QUOTE: Dulles: Yes. I think this record ought to be destroyed This Transcript was never meant to see the light of day.! Transcript of executive session of the President's Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy of January 22, 1964 Prepared by a Department of Defense stenotypist with the proper security clearance from reporter's notes among the records of the Commission in the National Archives at the request of the general Services Administration in August 1974. 1/22/64, 5:30 - 7:00 P.M. Gentlemen: I called this meeting of the Commission because of something that developed today that I thought every member of the Commission should have knowledge of, something that you shouldn't hear from the public before you had an opportunity to think about it. I will just have Mr. Rankin tell you the story from the beginning. Mr. Rankin: Mr. Wagner Carr, the Attorney General of Texas, called me at 11:10 this morning and said that the word had come out, he wanted to get it to me at the first moment, that Oswald was acting as an FBI Undercover Agent, and that they had the information of his badge which was given as Number 179, and that he was being paid two hundred a month from September of 1962 up through the time of the assassination. I asked what the source of this was, and he said that he understood the information had been made available so that Defense Counsel for Ruby had that information, that he knew that the press had the information, and he didn't know exactly where Wade had gotten the information, but he was a former FBI Agent. Ford: Who would know if anybody would in the Bureau have such an arrangement? A: I think that there are several. Probably Mr. Belmont would know every undercover agent. Q: Belmont? A: Yes. Q: An informer also would you say? A: Yes, I would think so. He is the special security, of the division. Dulles: Yes, I know. A: And he is an able man. But when the Chief Justice and I were just briefly reflecting on this we said if that was true and it ever came out and could be established, then you would have people think that there was a conspiracy to accomplish this assassination that nothing the Commission did or anybody could dissipate. Boggs: You are so right. Dulles: Oh, terrible. Boggs: Its implications of this are fantastic, don't you think so? A: Terrific. Rankin: To have anybody admit to it, even if it was the fact, I am sure that there wouldn't at this point be anything to prove it. Dulles: Lee, if this were true, why would it be particularly in their interest -- I could see it would be in their interest to get rid of this man but why would it be in their interest to say he is clearly the only guilty one? I mean I don't see that argument that you raise particularly shows an interest. Boggs: I can immediately -- A: They would like to have us fold up and quit. Boggs: This closes the case, you see. Don't you see? Dulles: Yes, I see that. Rankin: They found the man. There is nothing more to do. The Commission supports their conclusions, and we can go on home and that is the end of it. Dulles: But that puts the men right on them. If he was not the killer and they employed him, they are already it, you see. So your argument is correct if they are sure that this is going to close the case, but if it don't close the case, they are worse off than ever by doing this. Boggs: Yes, I would think so. And of course, we are all even gaining in the realm of speculation. I don't even like to see this being taken down. Dulles: Yes. I think this record ought to be destroyed. Do you think we need a record of this. A: I don't, except that we said we would have records of meetings and so we called the reporter in the formal way. If you think what we have said here should not be upon the record, we can have it done that way. Of course it might. . . Dulles: I am just thinking of sending around copies and so forth. The only copies of this record should be kept right here. Boggs: I would hope that none of these records are circulated to anybody. A: I would hope so too http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/wcexec2.htm

Bray said he sent his letter to Governor Connolly on August 12th - three months before JFK's murder. The issue references "Justice for the Crew of the Thresher" As you said, the Thresher was a submarine. Ironically, it went down on April 10th - the same day someone allegedly took a potshot at General Walker. If you go to the Dallas Police Archives and check the index, there are several references to Bray, the Thresher, and Justice for the Crew. Steve Thomas <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks Steve. I didn't know that the sub went down the same day as the Walker incident. Very interesting. I take it this guys claims of movie footage of a re-enactement came to a dead end, i must say the scenario of using a target towed along a dam as a dry run is intruiging. I have been trying to access the DPD archives for a week, the site seems to be down, unless the website address has changed.

Hi Tim. Thanks for the comments. Here are some of Don's photo's of the west window shooter QUOTE: This is also the exact same TSBD sixth-floor, farthest WEST, open-during-the-attack window pair that in a DILLARD photo captured about 30 seconds after the attack

Hi Tim. I'm sure that the conversation between LBJ and Hoover would have been dynamite, and was never meant to see the light of day. Didn't Nixons secretary have a bit of trouble with the ERASE button as well, i beleive there was a "section" erased from the Watergate tapes.

Pay special attention to the Dictabelt recording (ENV-2) ( Johnson to Hoover conversation ) dated 23/11/63. Conclusion by Cutting Corp: The Blank Dictabelt recording had been intentionally erased.

Hypothetical: What if there WERE two shooters from the 6th floor, (1) Far East Window (1) Far West window. Both rifles were left at the scene, but the Mausser had to vanish because (2)-rifles equalls Conspiracy. Also the west window rifle did not belong to A.H. Hidell so it had to vanish. This could have happened as the conspirators were arranging the placement of the three shells on the floor of the TSBD all lined up neatly in a row. This may account for some earlier reports of a mausser rifle being seen on the 6th floor .

What do you make of this letter which was witten by Harry Mckormack of the Dallas Morning News. Regarding a letter which was sent to Connally on the 12/8/63 by a man named "Edward.f.Bray" pre-warning that there would be an assassination attempt made in dallas. I looks as though bray has taken the letter from the news which was sent to him, then he has written across it and then returned it . I seem to recall this story from some where, something to do with the sinking of a submarine, and the cover up which followed. ?

Some researchers have theorised that this man may have a rifle in his left hand. ? If he did, he wasn't worried about witnesses behind the wall seeing him.

James. I see a strong resemblance in these two men, especially in the forhead and mouth area.

In this image the man driving the pick up truck is being questioned. Look at this man's hat and clothes and compare it to the man in the images from inside the DPD below. (Credit: Denis Morrisette} Could this be the same man. ?? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Interesting Robin. James Richards had posted a likeness of the individual at the DPD to Dick Whatley in the thread on Interpen. Did you see it? The pick-up truck is interesting. Multiple references to pick-up trucks that day. It doesn't appear that this pick-up is the same make as the one seen at the start of the Muchmore film. But Muchmore's truck may be a fit for the one seen by Julia Mercer. What about the one seen in Zapruder, that Jack White has demonstrated to be retouched? Are there 2 pick-ups parked on Main? Wish we had this in color. Does it appear in Hughes panning of the parking lot? I had the 'behind the fence scene' from KOAP - I now realize it is a frame from Hughes. - lee Lee. I must have missed James post. There certainly were a lot of pick up trucks around that day, i even remember seeing a photo of one at parkland hospital, and at love field.

In this image the man driving the pick up truck is being questioned. Look at this man's hat and clothes and compare it to the man in the images from inside the DPD below. (Credit: Denis Morrisette} Could this be the same man. ??