Robert Harris
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Posts posted by Robert Harris
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Good effort, Robert. Interesting that you included all the different theories, those used by both the LNers as well as the CT's (single bullet theory, missed shots, sewer shot, etc.) and merged them to explain a conspiracy. The single bullet theory could very well be correct but only if a shot had come from the Dal-Tex building. Arlen Specter might have got it half right except for the angles. I still think Oswald fired no shots at all and was not on the 6th floor at the time of the shooting and that the Z film and many others as you have demonstrated have been tampered with and altered. This creates a bit of a problem for parts of your theory when you utilized the Z film so much in your explanation of the head shots. I wonder if you have read Doug Horne's books relating to the x-rays and film alteration as well as JFK's head wounds as seen in Dallas and Bethesda. Overall a pretty good job of trying to make the pieces fit from the evidence that the general public has at its' finger tips. Mafia figures might have been involved to an extent but they could not order the destruction and alteration of evidence and wounds don't you agree?
Thanks Walt. When I look at this stuff, I pay no attention to who it supports or contradicts. I just do the best I can to figure out what happened.
Actually, I don't think the Zfilm was tampered with, or at least I don't until I see stronger evidence than I have so far. I didn't mean to give the impression that I did.
I think the coverup was separate from the crime itself - umm.. mostly anyway. I think most people in government honestly believed they were doing the right thing by covering up conspiracy leads, which they believed, would lead to Castro and WW3.
Hoover is a different story, and he was the one who was phoning people in the DOJ and the cabinet, telling them that the public must be convinced that there was no conspiracy. Hoover was tight with the mob and definitely in their pocket. I think he knew good and well, who was behind the assassination, and probably had foreknowledge. Of course, the FBI was responsible for 99% of the investigation and they did things to coverup the conspiracy, which were just criminal. Did you see the section on ce399 yet?
Oswald is a very tricky issue. I discuss the question of his guilt toward the end of the presentation, but I honestly am not sure whether he was a good guy or a bad buy.
Bob
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Ok. What do people tend to do when momentarily puzzled? Just a suggestion.
Fall could be lean for a better look? Hence the notion of spotting something and a suggestion is the symbolism of umbrella a la chamberlain (?) would not have been lost on JFK?
John, do you really think JFK could have see the UM at that point? Witt didn't raise it higher into the air until JFK was much closer to him.
RH
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I think interesting. Like you say needs to be looked at again and again. Perhaps the one exciced frame from the toqner is the one between where the intensity of the subs reflection on the limo chrome peaks and overexposes it. The wave thing strikes me as possibly being not a fist clench but a movement of a relaxed hand with fingers slightly curled moved to chin then a peek ahead. Perhaps innoccuous*. (Just some devils advocate things). Seeing this and seeling an explanation in the other film could then lead to its degradation.
If you create a panorama of the towner and measure the distance of wheel travel the jump is one frame, just as the reflection peaks and likely overexposes a frame which is then exciced.
*add maybe he spotted the unbrella and knowing its symbolism and paused and had a better look, decided how to deal with it, back to normal.
John, I went back to the video (Quicktime version) and single-stepped through that section. It appears to me, that the apparent fist is visible in several frames when the hand was well above the level of the chrome.
I think the key here, in terms of understanding what was going on, is to sit down and try to duplicate JFK's reactions. Start to wave as he did, and then snap your hand back within half a second, simultaneous with making a fist (or whatever one considers it to be). Almost instantly, after that, he falls to his left and then straightens up again.
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First off I'd love to say hi to all and seeing that this board really has all the heavy hitters from my youth! Really the reason I got into the JFK case was because of the 1980's documentaries and I see allot of those researchers are on here!
As for my Theory... I have seen it is picking up steam! The great people of MaryFerrell.org liked my point of view of something I feel has been pretty much glossed over for the most part. We see most people always focusing on the 2nd shot (magic bullet) & the 3rd (head shot), but really the whole case comes down to the First Missed Shot! That is the key to conspiracy! The angles don't match, the timing makes no sense & there is a bunch of Why would anyone do that?? We have seen crazy theories from John McAdams, Gerald Posner trying to explain what they can't with the missed shot! One says it's the 3rd shot coming from JFK's head - hitting the windshield then hitting the curb (ignoring evidence from a officer saying it was the 1st shot - not the 3rd) & another saying it hit the tree even though the tree wasn't anywhere near JFK in Oswalds scope at the 157-160 Z-frame mark.
This is the most important time because as soon as Tom Hanks project comes out, we will see the national media want to accept that and put everything else to bed with this case in the mainstream on it's 50th year. It's all set up, we all know how they have ignored evidence.
I havent really promoted my little quick site and when you see the site it's one page and pretty simple, but to the point! The people at Mary Ferrell was the first place I posted and after that I emailed a bunch of news outlets without any response. But I have now seen Jesse Ventura was on the Joy Behar Show on March 11th I believe and brought up my theory pretty quickly but to the tee.. Since then I have tried posting on his board - hoping he will do a full hour on JFK's The Missed Shot!
So this is the time to get this out there, before Tom Hanks & the mainstream media whitewash the truth and ignore something that is right out there in plan site!
Remember when The Lapel Evidence came out to The Magic Bullet - The Missed Shot is that same kind of evidence...
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Ok...
The Missed Shot is at Z-Frame 157 but we have to remember the sound has to hit Zapruder's ears to have him shake the camera which Z-Frame 160. But people we are talking about less then a second here... frame to frame. THIS is the POINT of the First Shot which Missed!!
* The House Select Committee's expert Photographic Evidence Panel's analysis of the Zapruder film placed a possible shot "at frames 158-160," based upon the blurring of the film at this point. "The most interesting thing about this hypothetical shot," the panel writes, "is that Mrs. Kennedy and Governor Connally testified before the Warren Commission and Governor Connally testified before the House Select Committee that they turned to their right when they heard the first shot, and both are seen in the film beginning a turn to the right immediately after this hypothetical shot. This appears particularly striking in the case of Governor Connally, whose head turns from mid-left to far right in less than half a second, beginning at frame 162."
* Around Zapruder frame 160-165 Rosemary Willis, who has been running on the grass alongside the President's limousine, begins to slow down; by frame 190 she has come to a complete halt. "I stopped when I heard the shot," she says. "In that first split second, I thought it was a firecracker. But within maybe one-tenth of a second, I knew it was a gun shot."
* Governor John Connally's head turns sharply to the right around Zapruder frames 161-162, Between Z 162 and 167, the Governor suddenly jerks his head to the right.
* The House Select Committee on Assassination's Photographic Panel said "The first reaction by any of the limousine occupants to a severe external stimulus begins to occur in the vicinity of Zapruder frames 162-167..."
Mostly....
The Warren Commission even took a photo of The Missed Shot. They clearly show a rifle scope around their JFK double in their reenactments.
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The Angles:
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Here is a Photo I didn't personally take, but it shows the angle of basically where "The Target" ie: JFK's Limo was at the point of the first Missed Shot. LOOK at the steep angle! Look how Oswald would have had to aim his rifle "Sharply" DOWN!
Now...
Here is a Photo I personally didn't take, but The Actual Angle of The Missed Shot where The Curb was struck is a completely different angle to where Oswald would be aiming! If he was trying to shoot JFK he would be aiming DOWN.. NOT this angle. Look at the difference!!
Totally different angles! The LIMO is under Oswald at the point of this first Missed Shot at Z-Frame 160.
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Motorcycle Officer (Sergeant) Stavis Ellis: Proving The FIRST Shot was the MISSED Shot!
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Motorcycle Officer (Sergeant) Stavis Ellis: That's when the first shot was fired. I was looking directly at the President, and I saw the concrete burst into a cloud of dust when that bullet hit the curb. . . . Then, while looking back at the President, I heard the second shot. The President became rigid and grabbed his neck."
On August 5, 1978, the committee received information from former Dallas policeman Stavis Ellis that Ellis had also seen a missile hit the ground in the area of the motorcade at the time of the assassination. Ellis said he rode on a motorcycle alongside the first car in the motorcade, approximately 100 to 125 feet in front of the car carrying President Kennedy. Ellis said that just as he started down the hill of Elm Street, he looked back toward President Kennedy's car and saw debris come up from the ground at a nearby curb.
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Questions of WHY:
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* WHY was Lee Oswald aiming his rifle 125 feet IN FRONT of "His Target"??
* WHY was Lee Oswald not aiming DOWN but he had his body turned to his right and the angle is completely different?
* WHY did Lee Oswald watch the Limo go down Houston... turn the corner... have The Limo RIGHT under him with the easiest shot... BUT aim the rifle 125 feet in front of JFK's Limo???
Because nothing was in the way of his wide open shot as the Warren Commission Re-enactment Photo 100% proves!
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- Where's the Tree? At the most, you would hit the very end of a twig.
- Where's the Traffic Light? Its behind the Limo about 12+ feet.
Nothing is around The Limo. It is in the WIDE OPEN! NOW, Look at the angle, you are pointing straight down!
*Now to hit The Curb, you have to lift your arms up, twist your body to the right about 45 degrees to hit The Curb where James Tague was located. THE ANGLES just don't work!
**Bottomline:
CLEARLY The Warren Commission knew this was the first shot - missed shot - a shot... Because in the photo they photographed a Rifle Scope around the JFK Re-enactment Double.
WHY would you aim a Rifle 125 feet infront of the target???? You are watching The Limo come up Houston Street... then TURN onto Elm Street. The LIMO is right under you!!! WHY are you aiming at a totally different angle & 125 feet IN FRONT of where your target is?
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Bottomline:
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* The Warren Commission Re-enactment Photo with a Double proves they knew from watching the Zapruder Film that THIS was "A Shot". Which lines up with Z-Frame 160.
* Motorcycle Officer Stavis Ellis statement of it being the First shot and seeing the next 2 shots proves that the missed shot was the first shot!
"Motorcycle Officer (Sergeant) Stavis Ellis: That's when the first shot was fired. I was looking directly at the President, and I saw the concrete burst into a cloud of dust when that bullet hit the curb. . . . Then, while looking back at the President, I heard the second shot. The President became rigid and grabbed his neck."
WHY was Oswald aiming 125 feet in front of the limo at a totally different angle?
??????
Thanks for listening to my theory - if the photos don't pop up, check out my One Page site on The Missed Shot.
www.TheMissedShot.8m.com
Take Care,
Patrick
Patrick, I fully agree with you, that Oswald (or anyone else in the alleged sniper's nest) did not fire a shot around 160. Therefore, if such a shot was fired, it had to have come from elsewhere. Recently, I put together a presentation which analyzes the shooting from start to finish. It addresses the early shots and their source. I you get a chance, I hope you can take a look at it.
The complete presentation in Quicktime format can be seen here:
http://www.jfkhistory.com/ALL/ALL.mov
It is also on Youtube, broken into parts, in order to stay within their time limits. This is part 1.
Thanks for the excellent analysis.
Robert Harris
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Although I have been a member of this forum for several years, I have mostly been a lurker, soaking up a lot of good information from some of you, who are obviously, extremely knowledgeable. My postings have been mostly, to "lone nut" groups, whom I have always believed, most needed to get the word
But I believe there are important aspects of the shooting in Dealey Plaza which have been overlooked by both sides of the debate, and I would like to share them with you. In this video presentation, I look at the shooting from start to finish. Much of this will contradict what you have heard in the past. I only ask that you be objective and weigh the evidence, carefully. The complete presentation in Quicktime format, can be seen here:
http://www.jfkhistory.com/ALL/ALL.mov
It is also on Youtube, broken into parts, in order to stay within their time limits. This is part 1.
Welcome Robert - would like to ensure that you aren't 'panned' on your first post here. I have not watched your entire video - so far, only the opening - and I must say that it is VERY interesting. For example - and not sure if it was on this forum or another - a claim was made of some sort - cannot remember the context - something along the lines of the Towner not being suspect - and I did a bit on those missing frames from Towner - and was very puzzled as to a potential reason [background, botched turn, etc.]. You pose an interesting theory - and it's well worth the consideration - and I am looking forward to viewing the remainder of your video in its entirety.
Will post more as I have the chance to view it, and am looking forward to it, and your response.
Many kind regards,
- lee
Robert Harris
Thank you Lee.
I think JFK's reactions in the Towner film require an explanation. They began just as the limousine pulled in front of the Daltex building and they are unlike anything we have ever seen him do prior to that point, in that or any other motorcade.
A shot that early has always been dismissed because witnesses never claimed to have heard anything then, but even the WC has admitted that most witnesses stated that they only heard one early shot, prior to closely bunched shots at the very end. That would seem to suggest that this was not the only shot that went unheard.
"..a substantial majority of the witnesses stated that the shots were not evenly spaced. Most witnesses recalled that the second and third shots were bunched together."
Anyway, I really appreciate your willingness to look at this with an open mind. I look forward to any other thoughts you might have on the issues raised in my video.
Robert Harris
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Jim Fetzer said:
If every there were a contributor to this thread who does not deserve to be taken seriously, it is Robert Harris. Notice he has only joined the forum in the last two days.
Robert Harris has managed to join the forum without having to post a phograph. Who was in such a rush that they forgot to extend the basic rules to the forum to him?
Actually, I uploaded a photo on the same day that I posted here, which shows up in my profile but not in my messages. Kathy Beckett promptly emailed me about it and I replied, explaining the problem.
If there is something simple I can do to fix this, please let me know.
Robert Harris
Ok, I think I get it now. I uploaded a photo to my profile but I think it's a different picture that appears in messages. I'll try to get that fixed no later than yesterday.
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Jim Fetzer said:
If every there were a contributor to this thread who does not deserve to be taken seriously, it is Robert Harris. Notice he has only joined the forum in the last two days.
Robert Harris has managed to join the forum without having to post a phograph. Who was in such a rush that they forgot to extend the basic rules to the forum to him?
Actually, I uploaded a photo on the same day that I posted here, which shows up in my profile but not in my messages. Kathy Beckett promptly emailed me about it and I replied, explaining the problem.
If there is something simple I can do to fix this, please let me know.
Robert Harris
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JIM, HOWARD, AND JUDYTH COMMENT ON ROBERT HARRIS
If every there were a contributor to this thread who does not deserve to be taken seriously, it is Robert Harris. Notice he has only joined the forum in the last two days. How could this guy be standing on the sidelines with his "dynamite" refutation of Judyth over more than 1,200 posts and not become involved before this? And I am quite certain that he has not even bothered to read them. This guy is as phony as they come. The gratuitous swipe at me over the Zapruder film is especially revealing, since the presentations he must be talking about are simply ones in which I show and discuss four different versions of the film which differ with respect to how much of the scene is presented in them, which is even supported by a mathematical analysis of their relative informational content. Anyone who would buy into the La Fontaine's feeble attempt to mislead the public about the identity of "the tramps" has discredited himself.
Dr. Fetzer, I posted about Judyth nine years ago, and my total postings on this subject over the years can probably be counted on one hand. I don't spend much time on the topic because it doesn't even make the bottom of my priority list. Judyth said exactly what I claimed. There is no confusion here on my part. "Anita" is the ONLY woman she even mentioned in regard to this issue. And she did say the woman double dated with her and Oswald. She admits that she told me about Anita, but she hasn't even come up with an alternative explanation for why she mentioned her.
If "anita" could corroborate her story in some other way, then surely you and Mr. Platzman have tracked her down by now. I mean, if she has a postcard, she at least has a maiden name which should allow you to track down her employment records. And surely, she told all of you about Anita a long time ago. What did you/they find out??
Or is it possible, that Anita only gets evoked as a co-worker whenever I show up??
And I noticed that she does not deny having told me about how sorry she felt for Marina, being left at home alone every night. Has she explained to you, why her story morphed into a daylight affair, after I corrected her? And if Mary La Fontaine had been wrong, then Judyth could have simply said so. But instead, she completely changed her story about the affair, from that day forward.
Dr. Fetzer, I have no dogs in this race. I have no money from books, movies, TV, hanging in the balance. And we all know, that if I had posted a message supporting Judyth, you would see me as God's gift to the research community, rather than as the human sewage you portray.
If you were right about Judyth and honestly believed you were right, you wouldn't need to resort to this "take no prisoners" strategy. You could discuss the issues rationally and objectively, instead of sounding like a ranting madman. I notice that you treat all skeptics, pretty much the same way. I doubt that you care, Dr. Fetzer, but when you promote things like this and your luny Zapruder film theories, you do far more damage to our credibility than the Posners and Bugliosi's of the world.
Whenever the nutters start accusing us of being lunatics, they always point to one guy as the ultimate example. Now, who do you suppose that is?
Robert Harris
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Robert,
Judyth has been subjected to a lot of abuse and has not always handled situations most effectively. She has often not been sure whether or not to provide additional information to those challenging her, especially in a case where it might put her friend on the spot without asking in advance. But she has been very responsive here. Her friend's name is Anna Lewis and a video of her talking about their double-dating may be found archived on my blog, including "The Love Affair", especially, at http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2010/03/14...udyth-vary.html The LaFontaine's OSWALD TALKED is such rubbish I can't believe anyone would take it seriously, which, I am sorry to say, raises questions in my mind about your competence. I think you need to get up-to-speed on Ed Haslam, DR. MARY'S MONKEY, http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2010/04/ed...rys-monkey.html . He (Ed Haslam) was on "Coast to Coast" for four hours last night. I suggest you check it out before drawing such damning conclusions. I have had a huge amount of contact with Judyth in the meanwhile and I am quite sure that she is "the real deal".
Jim
Dr. Fetzer, I am disappointed to learn that you are exactly what I expected after watching one or two of your presentations, on the Zapruder film, which I hope we can discuss in detail in another thread.
Judy didn't just handle a "situation" poorly. She lied to me and then significantly changed her story after she learned that her early versions didn't hold up. And she was either suffering from severe paranoia when she made up some very silly stories, or she thought I was.
After all these years, neither you nor anyone else has been able to confirm her story about an affair with Oswald, for the very obvious reason that it never happened.
As for your smear against the La Fontaines, I noticed that you support that argument every bit as well as you do this fairy tale about Judyth. The La Fontaines made some enormously important contributions, including their debunking of the "three tramps" myth, and their absolute proof that Oswald had been an informant for the FBI.
Their analysis was solidly supported by a great deal of facts and documented evidence. If you could show us 1/10th that much evidence in support of Judyth, there would be nothing left to argue about.
Robert Harris
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YouTube: Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile
http://www.youtube.com/user/JamesFetzerNews
Judyth Vary Baker, with whom I and others within the JFK community are in contact, lives in exile due to persecution in the US because of what she knows as a witness concerning Lee Harvey Oswald. The covert operation against Judyth is very serious and takes its toll upon her. She is now 66 years of age and has been forced to live in exile in Europe, where she resides in virtual poverty, even though she is a talented artist who has sold her paintings around the world for more than thirty years. The objective of this campaign appears to be to minimize awareness of her existence as a link to the alleged assassin.
My Blog: Judyth Vary Baken: Living in Exile
Dr. Fetzer, Judyth contacted me in 1999, long before she was on television and even before most researchers had heard of her. After a number of email exchanges, in which she related her story (or that version of it), we spoke on the phone for about three hours.
At that time, she talked about double dating with Oswald, with an old high school friend and her fiance, who married her in August of that year. My response was, that this would be a great way to corroborate her affair with Oswald. What were their names? At that point, she was silent for a moment and then said she didn't remember his surname, nor did she have any interest in tracking down the girl's parents, nor did she want to look at the wedding announcements in the newspaper for August, the month in which she said they got married. This is from an email exchange, she and I had in 2002
1. You said you and LHO double dated with a friend from school and her
fiance, and that you saw her wedding announcement in the paper in August
of 1963. It should be fairly easy to find that woman, through a yearbook
or the newspaper. Have you done so and do you have her name yet?
2. You said people at Alba's garage saw you with Oswald there. Have you
figured out yet, which of them saw you? Did Mr. Alba himself, see the two
of you? If not, then who did?
3. You said that you and LHO were inseparable during your affair and that
you felt sorry for Marina because she was left alone at night, on numerous
occasions. But, Marina was asked, by the La Fontaines (in a totally
different context), if Lee was frequently gone at night, or even late
coming home. She replied that he was always there on time, and never
missing. (in New Orleans, only)
Was Marina wrong about that? If not, then when did you and LHO have the
opportunity to see each other?
And why did you tell me that you monopolized his (non-working) hours?
As I said before, I still hope/wish your story is true.
But if it is not, then you are doing a grave disservice to this country
and to history. It is already almost impossible for serious researchers to
get anything published on the JFK case, which because of all the red
herrings and bogus theories, many editors equate with UFO tales and Big
Foot sightings.
She replied:
I did respond. I sent an answer through another person because I do not
have an email address for you. PLEASE simply send me an email with a
current address. If this email arrives, I made one error; where it says
"Anita" it should say "Annette" and is not to be confused with "Anna," as
these people are two different witnesses. I am still recovering from an
auto crash and do not look at the ne3wsgroup every day by any means.
Of course, she never could come up with the name of her "best friend" in high school, who was replaced by Anna Lewis as the woman, who with her husband, David Lewis, was supposed to have double dated with them. David Lewis, is the same guy who had a lot of stories to tell about Oswald, but never once, mentioned any double dates, or any kind of social activities with Oswald.
In her private emails to me, she totally changed her story about feeling sorry for poor lonely Marina, which she mentioned several times in our phone conversation. In version II, their flaming romance was carried on during daylight hours only, apparently sneaking out from work.
And of course, she never could come up with anyone who saw her at Alba's garage.
And one more thing.
Judyth had always spent a lot of time, following the JFK usenet groups. In 2005, I wrote a piece on Oswald and his obsession with "I led three lives", and Herbert Philbrick's influence on him.
When did she first start talking about Philbrick and IL3L's?
Judyth also told me during that phone conversation that some sinister character stole the hard drive from her computer. And she told me a story about being on a plane in which they had to make an emergency landing because a passenger had a heart attack. Sitting next to her, was a men-in-black type who said, "If we can do that to him, we can do that to you.".
FWIW, I have no respect at all, for most of the people who have been actively attacking her, in alt.assassination.jfk. And I have no doubt at all, that David Ferrie was involved in setting up the assassination. But Judyth is totally phony. Maybe she doesn't even realize what she is doing. My sense was, when I spoke with her, that this woman has some very serious mental and emotional issues. But her story is just not true. I wish it was, because a legitimate Oswald girlfriend might have given us a lot of important answers.
Robert Harris
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Although I have been a member of this forum for several years, I have mostly been a lurker, soaking up a lot of good information from some of you, who are obviously, extremely knowledgeable. My postings have been mostly, to "lone nut" groups, whom I have always believed, most needed to get the word
But I believe there are important aspects of the shooting in Dealey Plaza which have been overlooked by both sides of the debate, and I would like to share them with you. In this video presentation, I look at the shooting from start to finish. Much of this will contradict what you have heard in the past. I only ask that you be objective and weigh the evidence, carefully. The complete presentation in Quicktime format, can be seen here:
http://www.jfkhistory.com/ALL/ALL.mov
It is also on Youtube, broken into parts, in order to stay within their time limits. This is part 1.
Robert Harris
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I am currently employed as an investigator for a large corporation in Florida that does background and employment checks. Prior to that I spent almost twenty years in the computer business and owned my own store in New Mexico, for about twelve years.
My interest in the JFK case has existed since 1963, but it was in 1995 that I decided to try to find an accurate and objective methodology to resolve the conspiracy question once and for all. The results of my study are detailed in the lead article at my website, which has been endorsed and recommended by the History Channel.
Another Look at the Shooting
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
Well, it's an interesting thought. And there is quite a tale to be told about UM and his dark complected buddy. But, I can't help but notice that these reactions began at almost the exact instant that the limo pulled in front of the Daltex building.
Bob