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A Record from Mary Ferrell's Database Record: TORRES ALVAREZ, BERNARDO GONZALEZ Sources: CIA 84, p. 2; CIA 1227-512, p. 3; CIA 1228-513, p. 6; Plot or Politics, James, p. 165; Counterplot, Epstein, p. 40; HSCA Reel 6, Box 4, Folder B (AMKW 5) Mary's Comments: A Cuban exile living in Miami. Once helped to guard JFK during a speaking appearance in Miami. Torres worked with Jim Garrison on his investigation of the Kennedy assassination and said Garrison's investigation would make the Warren Commission investigation look pale. Worked for Military Armament Corp., one of Mitch WerBell's companies (according to Gaeton Fonzi). (Also see De Torres) http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
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Here is something to ponder, reprinted courtesy of John Armstrong's "Harvey and Lee." The last example of evidence alteration I will discuss is the most difficult to follow. It involves the two Oswald wallets found in Oak Cliff and is detailed in Dale Myers' new book _With Malice_. A wallet was found at the scene of the Tippit murder by Dallas Police which contained identification for Lee Harvey Oswald and Alik Hidell (SLIDE 18). Twenty minutes later a different wallet was taken from Oswald's left rear pocket by Detective Paul Bentley (RIGHT 7). This wallet, the "arrest wallet" also contained identification for Lee Harvey Oswald and Alik Hidell. Both wallets remained in custody of the Dallas Police from November 22nd until November 26th. Bentley turned over Oswald's "arrest wallet" to Lt. Baker. The wallet and contents were kept in this well worn envelope (SLIDE 19) in the property room until turned over to the FBI. Photographs of the "arrest wallet" and contents were taken by the Dallas Police on November 23rd and given to the FBI and Secret Service (SLIDE 20). The wallet found at the Tippit murder scene turned up in Captain Fritz's desk drawer where it remained until November 27th. On November 25th, Oswald's possessions were returned from Washington to be inventoried and photographed. Here we begin to see how the FBI tampered with the wallets. The FBI inventory listed two wallets--items #114 and #382 (SLIDE 21)--yet neither was "Oswald's arrest wallet" or the "wallet from Tippit murder scene". These inventory sheets showed the wallets coming from the Ruth Paine's house. But neither wallet was initialed by Dallas Police. Neither wallet was listed on the Dallas Police handwritten inventory (SLIDE 22) completed at Ruth Paine's house. Neither wallet was listed on the Dallas Police typed inventory-which became Warren Commission exhibits (RIGHT 8). Neither wallet was photographed among Oswald's possessions on the floor of the Dallas Police station. Yet two wallets were listed on the FBI inventory--where did they come from? Were they on the Dallas Police evidence film? To answer that question, I looked at the two rolls of film returned to the Dallas Police by the FBI. (Hold up Dallas Police film) Item #114 was listed (SLIDE 23) as "brown billfold with Marine group photograph." But negative #114 (RIGHT 9) showed only the Marine group photo. When a photograph is made from this negative, the "brown billfold"--allegedly from Ruth Paine's house--disappeared (SLIDE 24). Item #382 (SLIDE 25) was listed on the FBI inventory as "red billfold and one scrap of white paper with Russian script". But negative #382 (RIGHT 10) showed only the paper with the Russian script. When a photograph is made from this negative the "red billfold"--allegedly from Ruth Paine's house--disappeared (SLIDE 26). Both negatives were altered between the time the Dallas police turned over their original undeveloped film to the FBI and the FBI returned copies of that film to the police. Why cause the wallets in the original film to disappear? Because the original photos taken by the Dallas Police were probably photographs of the "arrest wallet" and the "Tippit murder scene wallet"--two wallets which contained identification for Oswald and Hidell which would have been unexplainable. To find out what happened to "Oswald's arrest wallet" and the "Tippit murder scene wallet" we must again look at the Dallas Police film. The 2nd roll of film begins in the middle of negative #361 (SLIDE 27) and ends in the middle of negative #451 (RIGHT 11). All of the negative images after #451, with one exception, were ruined. The one exception is the negative image of a wallet (SLIDE 28). When the negative image is developed into a photograph, you can see that it is "Oswald's arrest wallet" (RIGHT 12). This wallet, along with all other items in this film, were sent to Washington on November 26th.... Remember when I told you the Dallas Police were blamed for the 255 missing negatives because of "faulty technique"? Does this look like faulty technique? Or does this look like another example of the FBI splicing together and tampering with the original Dallas Police film? With the "Oswald arrest wallet" in Washington, the "Tippit murder scene wallet" remained in Captain Fritz's desk drawer. On November 27th, James Hosty picked up the "Tippit murder scene wallet" from Fritz and gave Fritz a signed receipt (SLIDE 29). Hosty then took that wallet and other items obtained from Fritz to the Dallas FBI office. According to Hosty, these items were neither photographed nor inventoried. They were placed in a box and flown to Washington by Warren DeBreuys. Two days later the Dallas Police notified the FBI they had failed to photograph the wallet and contents and wanted photos (RIGHT 13). The FBI ignored this request and never photographed the "Tippit murder scene wallet". The only known photos of this wallet are from WFAA newsreel film. When the FBI finished altering Oswald's possessions, Hoover sent this March 1964 memo (SLIDE 30): "the Bureau has re-photographed all of the material in possession of the Bureau and will send a complete set of these photographs to you by separate mail". Included among the hundreds of new FBI photographs were items #114 (SLIDE 31) and #382 (RIGHT 14). These two wallets were substituted for "Oswalds arrest wallet" and the "Tippit murder scene wallet".... I am extremely aware of the fact that there is a widespread and justifiable criticism of Armstrong's work, some of this criticism is based on how far he carries the two Oswalds thesis, I do not subscribe to the two Oswalds thesis to the degree that John Armstrong does, but I, as many researchers am aware that the Oswald "impersonations" are based in immutable fact "Garland Slack, et al...Other criticism's again, I think, justified, are that the finished print version leaves something to be desired, as to quality and editing issues.....i.e. disjointed is a word that come up. But, Joan Mellen's book reinforces the validity of the Oswald impersonations to the point that Armstrong's book has to be taken into the picture. Do not throw the baby out with the bathwater.... If you really want to stumble on to an Oswald impersonation scenario read former Dallas Mayor Wes Wise's revelations on an Oswald impersonator near the Texas Theatre driving off at a high rate of speed, during the same time frame that Lee Harvey Oswald is being arrested. One version is in High Treason - Groden/Livingstone pg. 277-78; Coupled with the other "Oswald" that exited the back of the Texas Theatre "seemingly in custody of the Dallas Police" see Crossfire pg 354 Bernard Haire allegations/Bernie's Hobby House next to Texas Theater. Put those two together and you are beginning to see what could be a somewhat sophisticated black-op which fortunately was witnessed at one of it's most critical moments.
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Angel Murgado (Angelo Kennedy)
Robert Howard replied to John Simkin's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
What is so interesting is that a Forum provides dates and a chronology of the way information is released. The postings on this Forum will show that Robert Charles-Dunne, Pat Speer and myself were highly suspicious of Murgado’s story from the beginning. We were not alone. I also received emails from several other researchers who shared these views. My own view was this was part of a campaign to discredit Joan Mellen’s book. That it would be revealed later that Murgado was not telling the truth. I emailed Joan expressing these views. I also communicated them to two other authors who were working on books about the JFK assassination who intended to use Murgado as a source. According to Tim, Joan has two different versions of the Silvia Odio incident. One in the article and one in the book. The account in the article is consistent with Odio’s own account. The one in the book contradicts Odio’s account. In other words, the article exposes Bernardo De Torres as someone who helped set up Oswald. That is also my belief and this is reflected in what I had to say about him on my webpage. However, the revised story that appears on this Forum, provides an alibi for De Torres. According to the new story, De Torres was only playing a social visit and like Murgado did not know Oswald. The main beneficiary of this new story is Bernardo De Torres. I suspect that he is the true motivator behind this development. Bernardo De Torres is an interesting character. His name has rarely appeared in any book as being involved in the assassination. Donald Freed (Death in Washington, page 195) and Taylor Branch & Eugene Propper (Labyrinth, page 185) suggest he might have been involved in the killing of Orlando Letelier. Peter Dale Scott (Deep Politics, page 105) provides evidence that he had links to the CIA and the drug trade. William Turner (Rearview Mirror, page 143) points out he turned up as a disinformation agent in the Jim Garrison inquiry and that an informant told the HSCA that he was in Dallas on the day JFK was assassinated and had pictures of “Dealey Plaza in a safe-deposit box”. These points are also repeated in James DiEugenio article, Rose Cheramie” that appeared in The Assassinations (page 236). However, Bernardo De Torres was not looked at in any depth until the publication of Larry Hancock’s Someone Would Have Talked (pages 221-222). It was Larry who revealed that De Torres used the name of Carlos. If that is the case, is Bernardo De Torres the “Carlos” who appears in Gaeton Fonzi’s The Last Investigation (232-241)? Rolando Otero told Fonzi that Carlos was posing as a photographer in Dealey Plaza on 22nd November, 1963. Otero also claimed that Carlos was one of a five men team from Miami who assassinated JFK. Fonzi claims that Carlos was linked to Frank Sturgis and Gerry Hemming via the Anti-Communist Brigade. He also had links to Ken Burnstine, a South Florida real estate developer and Mitch WerBell, the arms dealer. Fonzi also points out that Carlos turned up in New Orleans to volunteer their services in Jim Garrison’s investigation. Fonzi adds that the HSCA discovered that the CIA planted a number of agents on Garrison’s staff. Another informant, Ten-One, claimed that Carlos and an associate fitted the description of “Angel” and “Leopoldo”. However, G. Robert Blakey stopped Fonzi from showing the picture of Carlos and his friend to Silvia Odio. Carlos received a subpoena to testify before the HSCA. What Carlos did not know was that his telephone calls were being monitored. When these were checked it was discovered that one of his first calls after receiving the subpoena was to McLean, Virginia. Another informant, Ten-One, claimed that Carlos and an associate fitted the description of “Angel” and “Leopoldo”. However, G. Robert Blakey stopped Fonzi from showing the picture of Carlos and his friend to Silvia Odio. At the risk of being controversial, I would mention that G. Robt. Blakey's name crops up several times in AFTJ in most unflattering terms. If the above paragraph is correct, I would urge Forum members to connect the dots, and draw the obvious inference. Accordingly, past experience has taught me and others an important lesson. 1. When an extremly critical aspect of information related to the assassination is delved into such as the Odio story..... 2. And there are a myriad of conjectures across the board that contradict each other...... 3. You can be damn sure that what you are looking at is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT, and MUST form your conclusions, carefully and with EXTREME attention to detail. Case in Point Oswald Talked - "It takes a Woman to Know," Counterpoint/Rebuttal "What the LaFontaines Didn't Tell You" see Link http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/odio1.txt I think the above cited conflict is an example of poor research by the LaFontaines rather than deliberate disinformation on either party's part, but the LaFontaine story does offer some interesting points, i.e. Sarita. I would like to hear what Larry Hancock makes of all of this, and is certainly invited to jump in and offer his analysis, "Did Oswald attend any anti-Castro meetings in Dallas, (I am aware of the meetings Oswald attended with Edwin Walker present on Oct. 23 and the ACLU meeting the next evening with Michael Paine, but these weren't Alpha 66 meetings, obviously. I suspect John is absolutely right about the so-called "discrepancies" in Mellen's book. I.E. Differences in the Solares Hill, article and final version of AFTJ, if, and obviously there is a difference in the versions, I think it is only common sense to interpret this as Joan taking the right path, remember the allegation that she conducted the interview without being "sufficiently prepared" shall we say is classic B.S. deception, a/k/a when youre close to the truth, lie like hell, let the researcher beware. -
Angel Murgado (Angelo Kennedy)
Robert Howard replied to John Simkin's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
---------------------------- NOT when it is safe for her, but when it is safe for all previously connected to her, here and abroad -- she will recant and denounce the abuse put to this courageous her repeatedly by entities of the U.S. and other foreign governments. She was [and still is] a very brave warrior, especially so when she operated with us inside Cuba. Many others like her, agreed with my challenge to Nazario Sargent, Medina, Fleites, et al. [Alpha-66] when I stated that: "....With so many family members now here inside the U.S.; just whose brother, sister, cousin, uncle or aunt are we going to murder inside Cuba NOW ??"!! "...They are targets and "enemies" now, just because they joined the Militia in order to feed their families !!" "...It is OVER !! Let us honor our dead, and those honorable warrior 'enemies'....and get on with really saving the Cuban people !!" [1970 -- After returning from disaster relief operations in Peru] 'VOLVEREMOS !!' Gerry Patrick Hemming, Ejercito Rebelde Cubano, F.A.R. [1958-1960] ________________________ I agree with Gerry 1000%., As well as some other comments he made today about Senor Bush and his pardon should the waters get even more troubled over the Plame affair. I suspect this November 22nd is not going to be your average affair, but I have been wrong before, more than once. But if I am right, hell maybe we could even get our country back while we're at it. -
************************************************************************** "Mark Lane is an American hero. He used his position as a lawyer and former member of the JFK political camp to do about as much as any researcher can do to expose the conspiracy. Rush to Judgment was a landmark book, and his court victory over E. Howard Hunt (and the info that came from that case) was priceless. I remember reading Lane say somewhere that he feels he has done his part. I agree." EXACTLY!!! Rush To Judgement and Plausible Denial answered many questions, and posed much more than any of us ever hoped possible. The fascists would rather have us believe that Mark Lane was nothing more than a showboater, the same as they wanted us to believe of Garrison. But, those of us who actually read with the willingness to learn, and the skepticism to know better than to trust the U.S. gov. to give us ANYTHING BUT the truth, will always be indebted to attorneys such as Lane, Garrison, Weisberg, and those who've worked tirelessly behind the scenes. Yet, in the face of brutal ridicule, and despite the orchestrated attempts at derision by Operation Mockingbird's "media machine", have managed to bring the dirty laundry regarding this American coup d'etat to the light of day for all the world to see. They said it couldn't happen here, but it sure in hell did. Anybody that Hoover and Company were calling Communists in the 1960's is in the company of the elect, certainly Mark Lane was in at the beginning, as far as serious enquiry about the assassination. His bona fides are impeccable, if he were to join the Forum, it would be a feather in the cap.
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Familiar DGI Faces In Dealey Plaza
Robert Howard replied to Tim Gratz's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
---------------------------- Owen: Now let me grab a handle on this: Veciana told tall tales, but we can still nit-pick [out-of-context] other "truths" which might fit some of our pre-conceived notions, I guess thats, OK -- everybody else dooz-it !! Tony grew tremendously annoyed that Fonzi, et al. were "centering-upon": That LHO with "Bishop" in Dallas automatically means that -- either they were complicit in the conspiracy to murder JFK; or maybe "Bishop" was "Patsying" LHO by taking him by Bunker's office; or......never mind. Tony was compartmented, but aware of the RFK "road-watcher/shooter" teams, especially the South Dade and McLaney [Hammond, Algiers, Covington, LaFitte] teams; but really wasn't in the mood for endlessly drawnout tutoring of [obviously-being-sabotaged] "investigators" who had mostly "nil" at the time. He knew that Gaeton, Gonzales, et al. were being vectored away from serious "subjects-of-interest" by the HSCA & Intel Community upper/mid echelons. Moreover, he suspected that the exposure of many of these people would solve nothing but DGI's interest in documenting JM/WAVE and other CIA operations. The NSA's most dreaded "Flap", the emerging ability of code-breakers to de-cipher ancient cable intercepts through the matching-up of the then current subject matter. As for where Veciana was on 11/22/68 ?? Now let me see, if you can give me a few more "suspects" I can consolidate most of my long-distance calls to maybe three nights. Would the other inquiring member prefer that I preface each query with "...picking your toes.." or "...quit beating your wife...?"!! I don't know whether Tony got the November 18th, 1963 urgent calls for Dallas & Ft. Worth meetings with VIP "financiers" who were in a funds disbursment mood. Felipe did, and "Bishop" went with him to Dallas. Sturgis and Diaz Lanz [sans "Monica" Lorenz] did and hit Dallas on Thursday [11/21/63]. Many others, and I only suspect that Tony also, heeded my advice about staying clear of JFK's travel itinerary; especially after the MIA scenario. Felipe vidal Santiago [and brother Ivan] were encouraged to defect personnally by the then Caracas, Vanezuela CIA/COS Jake Esterline. Jake got him an urgent P.OA., and dispatched him to a Bogota, Colombia safehouse. [Felipe was then Fidel's Cuban Naval Attache in Caracas] Once in Miami, Felipe was quickly vetoed by the Bender [Droller] Bastistiano-loving clique -- and especially since Felipe had been one of the leaders of the 1957 Cienfuegos navy base uprising against Batista's thugs. What I do know is: The "Bishop" CIA case officer for Felipe [1962-1963] was NOT either Jake nor Philipps. Say, I know what -- Frank Terpil has been "hanging-out" in Habana for years, not sure if he ever "chilled" there with Phil Agee; but give Phil a call, maybe he has Frank's number, and...maybe Frank has more "Intel" or might want to rephrase or recant. NOT that I would ever think that he had any malice whatsoever against Dave Philipps [perish-the-thought]. And especially NOT because Dave was promoted over him into the Clandestine Service -- and egaads, up from being a Paul Bethel type [but just CIA/jounalistic cover "NOC"] to a career DDP/DDO pay grade to boot !! I guess Ed Wilson [who knew Veciana way back when] really knew how to pick them for the MOSSAD penetration Op against Qhadaffy-Duck. Tony could have "chilled" with Ed at "Super-Max" Marion FP if they hadn't sent him elsewhere. Then again, bunking 4 levels underground might discourage a tropicalized Cubano. The only thing that irritated me, was that the .357 Magnum used on the anti-Daffy-duck raghead in Idaho was purchased from my Son's Fire Chief at Bonnie Doone V. F. D., FAY/NC !! Oh well, nada new here...but Yada, Yada...so its back to Oprah for me...maybe then Dr. Phil -- mucho mas intellesting for us Yanqui-running-dogs-of-imperialism; eh wot ol boy ??!! Hasta Luigi, GPH ____________________________ I took your advice hesitantly about interpreting your posts, remember the Ruth Paine query, and the "Trans-Siberian Gas Pipeline Explosion." Somehow I was able to discover through the looking-glass that Ruth Paine's Quaker buddy in NO Ruth Kloepfer had spoken to Jack Ruby preceeding the dirty deed in Dallas. I really do find your presence on the forum a good thing, for goodness sakes Oswald working for U.S Customs, you mentioned US Customs just a few weeks ago. I guess my problem is that I have never subscribed to the notion that evil can't be overcome, I believe it can. I think the cunundrum on the Forum reflects how frustrated people get when agendas and theories, get in the way of serious inquiry. I mean Tim Gratz's and his unrelenting quest to link Castro to the assassination to me comes off like trying to fulfill the plotters of JFK's demise of "Cuber." I suppose everythings relative, one mans ceiling is another mans floor sort of thing. I personally think (was it?) Oswald's "Hunter of Fascists Ha, Ha" has the potential to be the catchphrase for the New Left, in the Third Millenium. -
Jim Garrison and Oliver Stone
Robert Howard replied to Lynne Foster's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
As I noted earlier, I think the timing of Joan Mellen's book and the sudden appearance of this "Canadian researcher" who has NOTHING TO SAY except trash Garrison is quite interesting. OK Lynne, we know you like and trust "Life" magazine.... Now do ou have ANYTHING to contribute to the debate on the murder of JFK??? We know you detest Garrison, but is that the only song you know? Do you actually have any other thoughts on this matter? Dawn Ditto, I would ask our "newest member" if she is familiar with the term "Internet xxxxx," you should look into it. The forum membership you save may be your own. -
Jim Garrison and Oliver Stone
Robert Howard replied to Lynne Foster's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
"The Truth Will Set You Free" The great thing about the concept of democracy, is that "We the People" have the right to express our views irregardless of how illogical one percieves them to be. This is my response to some of the comments that Jim Garrison was some kind of deceitful person who was "protecting Carlos Marcello" a charge that I consider (as I believe anybody that didn't start researching the Kennedy Assassination yesterday, realizes the sheer idiocy of.) Courtesy of Craig DiLouie What is perhaps most alarming to many conspiracy theorists are powers that the President and the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) can assume during a state of national emergency, which the President can (and has) declared at any time. Each president going back in recent history declared 75-200+ national emergencies to justify issuing executive orders that have the power of legislation. Most of these executive orders have to do with the operation of government and foreign policy; one of Bill Clinton's executive orders, for example, required Federal buildings to become more energy-efficient. Other executive orders, however, are more ominous, which rendered into law powers of the Federal government during a national emergency. On September 30, 1973, Senators Frank Church (D-Idaho) and Charles McMathias (R-Maryland) made a joint statement regarding these orders: "The President has the power to seize property, organize and control the means of production, seize commodities, assign military forces abroad, call reserve forces amounting to two and a half million men to duty, institute martial law, seize and control all means of transportation, regulate all private enterprise, restrict travel and in a plethora of particular ways, control the lives of Americans . . . "Most [of these laws] remain a potential source of virtually unlimited power for a President should he choose to activate them. It is possible that some future President could exercise this vast authority in an attempt to place the United States under authoritarian rule. "While the danger of a dictatorship through legal means may seem remote to us today, recent history records Hitler seizing control through the use of emergency powers provisions contained in the laws of the Weimar Republic." How did the President gain these broad and dramatic powers? Again, by granting them to himself via executive order. In current times, despite the present wave of patriotism (with the Michigan Militia reportedly offering to help President Bush with homeland security), these powers, coupled with genuine emergencies now and in the future, could make one concerned. Coupled with ECHELON, a vast global intelligence-gathering network (and Carnivore, the FBI capability to read emails), they could make one nervous. Even paranoid. I believe that Earling Carothers "Jim" Garrison, District Attorney for New Orleans who put local businessman Clay Betrand on trial in connection with the assassination of John F. Kennedy, sums it all up perfectly in the October 1967 Playboy interview: PLAYBOY: Many of the professional critics of the Warren Commission appear to be prompted by political motives: Those on the left are anxious to prove Kennedy was murdered by a conspiracy within the establishment; and those on the right are eager to prove the assassination was an act of "the international Communist conspiracy." Where would you place yourself on the political spectrum--right, left or center? JIM GARRISON: That's a question I've asked myself frequently, especially since this investigation started and I found myself in an incongruous and disillusioning battle with agencies of my own Government. I can't just sit down and add up my political beliefs like a mathematical sum, but I think, in balance, I'd turn up somewhere around the middle. Over the years, I guess I've developed a somewhat conservative attitude--in the traditional libertarian sense of conservatism, as opposed to the thumbscrew-and-rack conservatism of the paramilitary right--particularly in regard to the importance of the individual as opposed to the State and the individual's own responsibilities to humanity . . . I was with the artillery supporting the division that took Dachau; I arrived there the day after it was taken, when bulldozers were making pyramids of human bodies outside the camp. What I saw there has haunted me ever since. Because the law is my profession, I've always wondered about the judges throughout Germany who sentenced men to jail for picking pockets at a time when their own government was jerking gold from the teeth of men murdered in gas chambers. I'm concerned about all of this because it isn't a German phenomenon; it's a human phenomenon. It can happen here, because there has been no change, there has been no progress and there has been no increase of understanding on the part of men for their fellow men. What worries me deeply, and I have seen it exemplified in this case, is that we in America are in great danger of slowly eroding into a proto-fascist state. It will be a different kind of fascist state from the one the Germans evolved; theirs grew out of depression and promised bread and work, while ours, curiously enough, seems to be emerging from prosperity. But in the final analysis, it's based on power and on the inability to put human goals and human conscience above the dictates of the State. Its origins can be traced in the tremendous war machine we've built since 1945, the "military-industrial complex" that Eisenhower vainly warned us about, which now dominates every aspect of our life. The power of the states and the Congress has gradually been abandoned to the Executive Department, because of war conditions; and we've seen the creation of an arrogant, swollen bureaucratic complex totally unfettered by the checks and balances of the Constitution. In a very real and terrifying sense, our Government is the CIA and the Pentagon, with Congress reduced to a debating society. Of course, you can't spot this trend to fascism by casually looking around. You can't look for such familiar signs as the swastika, because they won't be there. We won't build Dachaus and Auschwitzes; the clever manipulation of the mass media is creating a concentration camp of the mind that promises to be far more effective in keeping the populace in line. We're not going to wake up one morning and suddenly find ourselves in gray uniforms goose-stepping off to work. But this isn't the test. The test is: What happens to the individual who dissents? In Nazi Germany, he was physically destroyed; here the process is more subtle, but the end results are the same. I've learned enough about the machinations of the CIA in the past year to know that this is no longer the dreamworld America I once believed in. The imperatives of the population explosion, which almost inevitably will lessen our belief in the sanctity of the individual human life, combined with the awesome power of the CIA and the defense establishment, seem destined to seal the fate of the America I knew as a child and bring us into a new Orwellian world where the citizen exists for the State and where raw power justifies any and every immoral act. I've always had a kind of knee-jerk trust in my Government's basic integrity, whatever political blunders it may make. But I've come to realize that in Washington, deceiving and manipulating the public are viewed by some as the natural prerogatives of office. Huey Long once said, "Fascism will come to America in the name of anti-fascism." I'm afraid, based on my own long experience, that fascism will come to America in the name of national security. Why don't you just order Joan Mellen's book and read it. He did prosecute corruption. He could not be bribed or bought. As for Life mag, pleeeeease. If you believe anything Life has to say on the assassination you have done no homework. Dawn -
Motive's to Kill JFK by G. de Mohrenschildt
Robert Howard replied to Bruce Campbell Adams's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
Bruce, welcome to the forum. I am aware of your work and you obviously have explored the DeMohrenschildt angle to say the least. Can you provide on this website any information regarding the mysterious Dr. Mendoza who was treating George at Parkland Hospital whom Jean was so suspicious of. He appears to me to be of the same ilk as the CIA and/or CIA sponsored individuals who were so successful in throttling Jim Garrison while he was investigation Shaw. Any confirmation of that, I suspect Mendoza is a phony name. -
I am familiar with the FBI turn around. I am not familiar with the discreting of the trajectory analysis. Could you post the material, not just his conclusions. I would like to look at it myself. As a person who spearheaded the H.S.C.A. efforts to determine the truth about the assassination of Pres. John F. Kennedy, it is an honor to have you here on the Forum, Mr. Blakey, would you care to comment about your potentially representing Life Magazine back when Big Jim Garrison was considering suing the publication for libel?
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I wish that anyone who reads this thread (and I am sure there are) watched Larry King (speaking of ghosts of JFK, Eh) Oct 27, 2005 when he had a panel type discussion with Bob Woodward, David Gergen, a former White House adviser to president's Nixon, Ford, Reagan and Clinton; Newsweek's investigative Michael Isikoff; Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C. and, Sen.Christopher Dodd, D-CT, and Robert Bork. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0510/27/lkl.01.html The 64 dollar question about the "Plame affair" is whether evidence that Fitzgerald has or will obtain will lead to a resurrection of the WMD issue, which for the most part seems to have disappeared from the media, which I think, is a sad commentary about the electorate. I personally believe that between drowning in cynicism and suspecting the worst about "our government" many American's are so unaware of the co-opted media (see Pres. Reagan vetoing of "Fairness in Media Act" to become Federal Law link http://www.twf.org/News/Y1997/Fairness.html) that the problem in restoring some semblance of reality to America's democratic process, is pre-empted by the fact that media has been asleep at the wheel for a couple of decades now. How can you solve problems in this country, when the electorate is basically sedated watching Nancy Grace and Hollywood Scandals Volume 12. IMO there is appx. a minority of Americans who realize that the Republican vs. Democrat battle royal is really more of a sideshow to the very real FACT that American government needs to "be reformed." Bad things seem to happen to people throughout American history who have "a vision" that does not fit in with the status quo, see MLK's "Re-distribution of Wealth, Poor People's March on Washington." A kinder, gentler Malcolm X who seemed ready to "join forces with MLK." RFK's - "Healing the rifts between black and white, young and old, pro or con over Vietnam and civil rights." And so it goes....as Fearless Leader once said "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, er ah #%&* can't get fooled again."
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Bill, there is a wealth of valuable information in your article that you posted "Thursday Night at the Cabana Motel," the first item that linked to other stories was the Lucas B&B, as you may know a waitress there Mary Lawrence alleged that she saw Lee Harvey Oswald talking with Ruby there about 1:00 A.M., I have always found her allegation credible, even more so considering she was being badgered and threatened over the phone after she made this information available to authorities. But there is something which may be very significant about Ruby's Thursday Nov. 21, itinerary. The passage "Mrs. Norman E. Lewis…saw Ruby sometime during the day in a car at the expressway and Main St. and a few minutes later at Munger and Live Oak streets…is very compelling in that there were several members of the 112th Army Intelligence Group which lived in this area. For example, even though this list was compiled in 1962, Army Intelligence officer James L. Harris, lived just a few short blocks from the corner of Live Oak and Munger, James Powell, (who was innocently or not so innocently taking pictures at Dealey Plaza on 11/22/63 and was ostensibly "trapped" inside the TSBD, after the assassination) only lived 10 blocks away. See the links below If Mrs. Norman Lewis account is credible, it isn't far fetched to think that if Ruby had intel links, that he may have been on his way to, or from one of these addresses. I realize this is speculative but I feel well worth pointing out. Also note on the list of Army Intelligence addresses that Powell and 5 of his fellow 112th members occupied (at least in '62) just 2 apts. alone in this neighborhood. James Powell (Red Star indicates home address in 1962, and probably 11/22/1963) James Harris (Red Star indicates home address in 1962, and probably 11/22/1963) http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?searc...ate=TX&zipcode= 112th Army Intelligence Address List http://assassinat.iquebec.com/misc_112th_g..._list_page1.jpg http://assassinat.iquebec.com/misc_112th_g..._list_page2.jpg Note the 112th Army intelligence list is in bitmap format, I don't know if all members have the software to view this, this is not my area of expertise. P.S. James Powell has been interviewed several times and the whole Fletcher Prouty story about the 112th being told to "stand down on Nov. 22" takes a beating when Col. Robert Jones testifies about this. In fact he implied that there were several Army intelligence officers "supplementing" security for the President in Dallas. http://www.jfklancer.com/knollagent/knollagent.html
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I am not sure if I am stating the obvious but in the upcoming "Farewell to Justice" book by Joan Mellen she asserts that Thomas Edward Beckham was involved in the JFK assassination plot as another designated "patsy" (In what context she did not elaborate); suffice to say all indications are he was a CIA trained patsy. He will be one of the most intruiging (new,old) characters, to emerge from 1963. Beckham also testified before the New Orleans parish grand jury in the Garrison case against Clay Shaw, according to Mellen he lied his head off about everything, she further implies that if he had told what he knew Garrison would have probably unmasked the conspiracy he was so desperately trying to unmask. Pre-ordered copies arrive appx. Nov. 1, 2005. Keep up the good work.
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Bill can you fill us unenlightened ones in about Luis Castillo's trance-like recollections of being in Dallas on 11/22/63; sound's interesting to me.
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A Trujillo Sponsored Assassination
Robert Howard replied to Tim Gratz's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
If there has been an intended or un-intended residual effect of JFK research over the last 42 years it is a elaborate expounding on what David Wise and Thomas Ross called the Invisible Government some 41 years ago, unfortunately I believe, they only touched the tip of the iceberg. There is an area of research that I suspect many, many members of this forum are aware, in which the Kennedy Assassination is "somewhere amidst" a linear chart of scandals and sinister activities that go on to this day. I do not read the newspapers the same way I did twenty years ago, but I am not a "conspiracy theorist" or a "coincidence theorist" either, I am an amateur historian who delights in the Jack Webb, Dragnet "Just the fact's Maam" approach here in the land of the living. For one who wants to deal with reality on the topic the only people I can recommend (and I am sure there are others who are out there I am not aware of) are Carroll Quigley (Tragedy and Hope) and some material by Malichi Martin, who generally writes about the Catholic Church, but writes about the topic at hand as well. My other faves are Noam Chomsky (excepting that piece of dribble Re-Thinking Camelot (what is the deal with Chomsky and Nov.22 "He went to the other side"?) and Peter Dale Scott, the latter who is about? to release a book concerning 9-11 and Mess-opotamia (pseudo-phonetic spelling intended). As far as I am concerned, the biggest obstacle to a remedy for government nefarious-ness, is a Congress which does its job and isn't corrupt and an electorate that is capable of educating itself without watching CNN and Fox News to get it's take on reality. Neither of which I am afraid are the case. As for Gerry's inquiriy into members political leanings mine are posted on the thread John recently started for the Education Forum. I hope I didn't move away from the direction of the thread, I just wanted to respond to the last couple of posts. -
Thanks for the info, greatly appreciated. I would like to say I am pretty aware of pertinent threads but sometimes I miss one. Thanks Tim
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So, does this mean Larry King was a witness to RFK's meet with Rothman? If so, why has he never discussed this? And why prevent Angelo from telling Russo about de Torres and Oswald? Were you holding on to this like a rare stamp, hoping this info would go up in value? Or were you concerned for your safety? Just trying to make sense of it all. -------------------------------- "Rare Stamp !!" "Bullxxxx !!" I gave my stamp collection to my oldest daughter while ensconced in the VA hospital for 8 months, as I anticipated a somewhat dim outcome due to my afflictions. My extreme reluctance to join with Russo in the Jennings/ ("Coward-ass" Canuck warmonger who got us into Somalia !!), /Sy Hersh (Hero? of the My Lai "Pinkville-4" massacre expose') "Dark Side" castigations, caused me to set strict guidelines as to interview content. I sure as hell didn't want Russo going on to the others, Reboso, McClaney [and his aide "Steve"] prefacing his queries with: "...Well, both Angelo, Hemming, and AM/LASHs 6 thru 17 said that.....!!" [a-la AJW] -- and either turning them OFF, or worse, causing them to believe erroneously that said Intel was declassified at NARA. "Go up in VALUE?? -- to whom !!" Most insights will NEVER see the light of day, no matter what the offer. I have no clue as to whether "Rough House" Norm was at the Surfside-6 meet; as I never asked the two "Hickory Hill" RFK Cubans anything further on same. As far as I recall, the "multiple" R/Vs with Rothman were at his home on Star Island [in sight of Al Capone's winter palace] -- and the island is between mainland Miami and Miami Beach, and thus -- nowhere even near Collins Avenue.. Larry King "discuss this??!!" He would be retired the same day !! Don't you understand the real world at all?? He is where he is at today because he DID NOT disclose "this"; you think he is stupid or something?? Nor, does he have a "duty" to disclose [or enlighten] anything to anybody, and even if given immunity before a grand jury -- would seek the protections of the 5th Amendment -- and would gladly do a "Susan MacDougal" or a "Judy Miller" martyr routine; especially considering the very apparent [to HIM] risks; something that you will never face in your hindsight tabloid reading !! My brother recently nagged me about "speeding-up" my tape recordings, as without my "initial disclosure" of "highly classified Intel"; he will be left to write only about a limited number of our Ops after I have passed. Some of you people just don't get it !! If my family has limited knowledge of specific instances, why the hell should I blurt out a goddamn thing to total strangers ?? Wise-up -- I have no NDAs hanging over my head, since I was never "on-the-books" with CIA, save for certain instances. And by-the-way: The "nasty-ass" CIA is prohibited by law from answering questions posed by anyone, any "Body", any entity, under any circumstances outside the NSC/Oval Office locale !! Some of that has been changed by the so-called P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act -- but don't hold your breath in anticipation that "The Company" might respond to "uncleared" busy-nobodies. Moreover, had there been a C/CI half as competent as Angleton during the 1980s thru 2001, there would have never been: a 9/11, a traitor Howard, a traitorous Walker Family USN spy-ring -- same goes for Ames, Hanssen, "Falcon & The Snowman", and especially those dozens of others who have been kept out of "the system", or quietly "cardiac'd/car wrecked", etc. -- the same moves that Fidel made inside Cuba with HIS "rogue-conspirators"; only he has thrown in a few aeroplane and helicopter crashes. Too bad the late SOV/General Lebed didn't heed the warning about avoiding excursions in delapidated Mi-8s !! Go ahead and do a Khazar with King, you know the routine: "...GPH says that you are a two-bit paper-hanger thief...and that you traded "insider info" to gain the "prestige??" and extreme wealth held currently....Larry, old chap...eh wot ??" Hell, Boris Pash did the same, and even got CIC "Op-ALSOS" staff/ sergeants installed as junior CEOs with "Fortune-500" corporations !! 'Nuff said, ["personal safety my aching ass -- NOT likely -- especially when the likes of Chacon, Masferrer, "Benny", et al. considered me as the genuine "enfant terrible" -- and me just a home-loving wannabe-SOF nice-guy; shocking !!, it hurts SO !!] Cereal, GPH __________________________ You mentioned once that "Oswald" called in to a radio talk show in Florida while you were on-air doing an interview. Was it Miami Undercover? By the way, I sincerely appreciate you responding to my question about the Paines. I have found that "pursuing historical truth" can take a long, long time. The "reality of life" for past and present individual's in the US Government and its "lower echelons," is obviously quite different from Joe Q. Citizen, but if the relationship between the two (Gov't and ordinary people) is not structured via the constitution then democracy becomes an anachronism; But what I do feel is important in this country today is getting back to something resembling democracy. Revelations about JFK's death (as well as a host of of "other scandal's" the last 42 years has made at least some of us a little wiser. I wonder if schools today teach that the patriots of 1776 (that have been evoked countless times by the people in Washington) were fond of mentioning that one's government's devotion to democratic principles without the ever-vigilance of its own people, is not something that "the people" should assume to be as permanent a fixture in our lives as say, the sun coming up in the morning.
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Hi Matt Burned is to be expected when one, 'for good reason' blabs after the resigning. The fear was that it might upset some ongoing intelligence operations if I became publically known. But I had to get out for 'urgent reasons', and did so. It was then a withering present and future for a time. In any case, thanks for your kind post. Harry This post is addressed to Gerry Hemming. Gerry, I follow your posts very closely as you are a legendary figure in JFK lore, as well as being privy to matters that for the most part, the rest of us on the forum are "outsiders looking in," when it comes to the JFK assassination. Can you tell us anything concerning Michael and Ruth Paine and how they fit in to the real story of November 22, that has been heretofore unrevealed?
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I really don't have much information to offer of any signifigance at this time, other than the fact that his name is listed among the many documents at the National Archives, that pertain to the Kennedy Assassination.
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During the early 1990's in Dallas, there was a JFK Assassination Research Center in Dallas, I believe Larry Howard was the proprietor of it. Anyway the Center had "letters that Jack Ruby had written while in prison," although described by some as "long and rambling" the letters contained strange references to things such as "pogroms against the Jews." I never had the opportunity to peruse the documents, but have always been curious about them. Is there anyone here on the forum who is familiar with this aspect of Ruby, who may have the ability to post the letters on the forum or, provide their own insights into the material?
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I have recently come upon this name with some research I am doing, any Forum members who have any information to offer please feel free to post here.
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Bill Kelly has just joined this Forum and hopefully he will join in this debate. By the way, Joan is going to wait until her book is published before she answers these questions. Great news on both counts. Thanks John. Greg, Are you familiar with the LI/COZY Program. I read that one of the people used in that program may be "the person in question." Philip Agee's "Inside the Company" states that this program was eventually discontinued. Wish I knew more, maybe Bill Kelly will "enlighten" us.
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LBJ and the Assassination of John F. Kennedy
Robert Howard replied to John Simkin's topic in JFK Online Seminars
I knew you would not let me down. The one I uploaded is only a photocopy of Wallace and appears in all the books. These are new to me. Where do they come from? I just had to share this photograph, after looking at it I thought about the old adage "A picture is worth a thousand words, I mean is it just me or are there not some intruiging glances being exchanged in this photo? I guess this post is a little self-indulgent, but I couldn't resist. -
I normally would not post information of this nature on the forum, but there is an old saying that "all's fair in love and war." Readers are instructed to form their own conclusions. "STUDENT TURNS UP UNREDACTED CALIPARI REPORT ONLINE - A Greek medical student at the University of Bologna in Italy, surfing the web on 1 May, found he could restore redacted portions of a 40-page U.S. report on the death of Italian senior SISMI officer Nicola Calipari with a couple of clicks of his computer mouse, the BBC reported on 2 May. news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4504855.stm The student passed the details to Italian newspapers, which put the full text on their websites. On 30 April, the U.S. released a redacted cyber edition of the report in pdf format. Removed from the report were the names and ranks of soldiers involved in firing on the car in which Calipari was traveling and rules of engagement for checkpoints such as that at which the shooting occurred. According to the BBC Rome correspondent, other redacted material included details about communication failures. Such a report would normally be released in a hardcopy but was made available online this time to facilitate access to it by U.S. media in Baghdad whose freedom of movement is restricted by the dangerous conditions there. A German systems architect, Volker Weber, reported in a blog how the report could be 'un-redacted,' using nothing more than CTRL-C, CTRL-V (cut and paste), ZD Net said on 1 May. blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=1329 Weber says when he tried to copy and paste a few pages from Acrobat into Windows Notepad, everything that was blacked out in the PDF version of the document was clearly visible. "There have been many reports in the press of how people have published Microsoft Word documents with their history easily revealed through Word’s track changes feature," he notes. "But you rarely hear about problems like this when it comes to PDF files. It will be interesting to see how this security debacle unfolds, where the finger gets pointed, and how it changes the way PDF files get handled in the future (by organizations of all types)." (DKR)
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I am not exactly enthusiastic about sharing my political philosophy, but will expound on it for what was once called the "common good." There is a famous or infamous quote falsely attributed to Winston Churchill, that went something like - "If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain." I do not agree or disagree with the statement, but use it as a way of somewhat describing the changes throughout the years that have taken place in my political philosophy. Growing up in my family was not conducive to developing any type of political outlook, in retrospect it was very stifling. Everything related to politics centered around personalities of the politicians, instead of where they stood on the issues. As a consequence, I had to learn politics, for lack of a better description. I grew up in the Deep South, here in the good old US of A. I learned quickly that patriotism was a virtuous concept, which I believe, as long as that patriotism is tempered by common sense and a deep understanding of moral values, and contributes to the common good of all members of that society. Growing up in the 1960's in the Deep South, just saying the words is evocative, was a violatle era, Civil Rights, Vietnam and the counter-culture movement, (combined with things such as COINTELPRO, the FBI program that monitored individuals whom the FBI considered a "threat to America," a view that was not shared by Congress when it was later discovered) was all happening at the same time, I would say that the intensity of political debate in America, circa 2005 has just recently reached the level it was exactly 40 years ago. In Texas, I discovered that I generally did not like politicians, they seemed to be very transparent, when it came to communicating to their potential voters, a real lack of ability to connect with voters on the "I care about you and your needs" issue. I was a tremendous admirer of John F. Kennedy for political reasons that resonated within me at an early age, i.e. civil rights. Racism towards minorities in the South has always been a problem, and in the 1960's I saw Ku Klux Klan recruitment posters, something that has always stuck in my mind as to the ugliness of it all, water fountains in Dallas had just been desegregated, and de-segregation was years away. Racism in any form to me is reprehensible and always has been, so from the very beginning I was partial to the Democratic Party something that has never left me. But as I grew older I disassociated myself from the "either/or" perspective, I began to try to see both sides, even though I associated the Republican Party with racism, example: When George H.W. Bush made his first stab at running for political office in 1964 here in Texas, he ran on an anti-civil rights platform. That has been conveniently forgotten by the media. However by the end of the 1960's and into the early 1970's I became an avid newspaper reader, and understood that LBJ's Great Society Program was percieved by the media and by many people on the left and the right, to have been an epic failure. By this time I was a Democrat completely, and immersed myself in reading books chronicling the Kennedy administration. I felt a pervasive sadness in looking back at what was lost when JFK was assassinated, and Johnson took his place, indeed Johnson never took his place in any sense of the word, excepting passage of the civil rights bill, everything else was a shambles. Then came the assassinations, Kent State, Nixon, and Watergate. All of this left me feeling that America had been cheated out of a better future. Some thirty odd years after Nixon's resignation, waxing over "what might have been" something that was pretty much an obsession in the media in those days is now for me, some remote semantic debate. The civility of political discourse, or rather the lack of it, both in the political arena itself, as well as among the people, makes me feel that on one level "we are our own worst enemy." The advent and popularity of talk-radio has elavated this fact into the public consciousness, which I feel has resulted in the "pressure-cooker" atmosphere that permeates the American political scene these days. After the Carter administration, I began having second thoughts about my political orientation, it was not that I no longer related to the values and aspirations of the Democratic platform per se, but a combination of many things too numerous to expound on. I realize now that the media had a large role in influencing my decision towards Pres. Ronald Reagan. I do not share the euphoric admiration of him and his political legacy that ostensibly most Americans do, if you go by the polls. I am aware that the "Fairness in Media" law was rescinded during his admnistration, although I do believe his policies had a lot to do with effecting change in the Soviet Union. But my only personal involvement with politics came in 1984 when I was a alternate delegate to the Dem's 1984 State Conv. in Texas for Gary Hart. But by the end of the 1980's I had come to see a certain logic (mainly economics) with the conservative outlook. Now in 2005, I am, in my view a walking combination of all the different outlooks I have voyaged through in my lifetime. If I were to state my political ideology, I would describe myself as an independent, moderate/centrist. Politically, I tilt towards conservatism but I am liberal on social issues. The last four years has made me realize that Pres. Clinton was a much better President thatn the one who sits in the White House today. I believe that George W. Bush is the worst President in the history of the United States, for many, many reasons. The nature of the beast that is politics in America is so profoundly different than it was thirty years ago, that it is scary. In politics it is always "a brave new world" out there but when fear and religion are combined in a Machivellean like atmosphere as a cattle prod on the electorate, I see no reason to be hopeful, at least in the near future. I am only glad that I was taught, rightfully so, that using violence and hate to achieve political goals whatever they may be is evil, and using fear is no less morally reprehensible.