Thomas Graves

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx In the photo (posted by Lee Forman) above in post #3, the car in the parking lot behind unknown witnesses 12 and 13 sure looks like a RAMBLER STATION WAGON. (I should know- I used to own one!) FWIW, Thomas xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Thanks for that info, Bill. I'm a bit surprised that more Forum members aren't on it but FWIW, I'll sign on. _____________________________________________ Hi Bill, I took a look at the list and I noticed that most of the people didn't give their full address. Is that going to be a problem? Thomas _____________________________________________

______________________________________ John, I agree with your assessment of Mr. Gratz and Ms. Foster. Not only does seeing their names so often on the ends of so many threads on the "front page" turn me off from checking to see if there are any recent postings on those threads by other members, but I suspect that it discourages many other people from even joining the forum. IMHO, Thomas ______________________________________

____________________________________ As does practically everything else surrounding the case... ____________________________________

This seems to be a growing problem. Especially for the man who thinks he employs Tim. His productivity must be very poor. Mind you, his mate George Bush, is another one who does not believe in working very hard for his money. The main problem is the one identified by Bill Kelly this morning. Tim often posts to redirect the thread. He does this by making silly jokes or by posting something about his theory that Castro/KGB did it. I feel it is time I stopped Tim from doing this. Therefore I will be deleting his postings if I feel it is an attempt to hamper the discussion that is taking place. ______________________________________ Gosh, it looks like Mr. Gratz is finally winding it down a bit. (It's now 03:55 here in San Diego and he's NOT logged onto the forum at the moment and he's the last member to respond to a particular topic only on SIX different topics/threads on the "front page"!) I can hardly believe my eyes. Sorry. I just checked again. Make that SEVEN. ______________________________________

___________________________________ Ron, Excellent point. Thomas ___________________________________

__________________________________ I get it! If the Secret Service or local Law Enforcement (including Chief Curry, who turned the limo left at Houston and Main on the "practice run") had just realized that DP was such an "excellent killing zone" (not just because a former Marine who had "defected" to Russia was working in the same TSBD building that the open top limo would be passing by in a Reinhard Heydrich-type hairpin turn), and if the SS and the local LE had just realized that the layout and terrain and structures, etc in and around Dealy Plaza would make it so easy for an assassin or assassins to "walk away" after the hit, and that regardless of all of that, DP was just such a darn good killing zone because "it made the hit fairly easy," then maybe the local LE would have put more people on the ground in and around Dealy Plaza to prevent any such attempted hit, that is of course if they had realized that DP was such an excellent killing zone. __________________________________

______________________________________ You're absolutely right, Mr. Gratz. For example, I remember having some very serious doubts about you the very first time I logged on to this forum. Since you seem to be ignoring the point I'm trying to make about your MO, guess what--- I give up. It's all yours, Mr. Gratz. Carry on. ______________________________________

______________________________________ Then why, in your 05:37 AM post today on this thread, did you cast doubt on John's integrity? (Very sneakily, of course.) I noticed it and, obviously, so did he. ______________________________________

___________________________________________ Dear Mr. Gratz, I'm afraid you missed my point, so let me give you a "dose of your own medicine" : Tim, I am loathe to accuse you of being stubborn, stupid, sneaky, etc... Thomas Get it, Mr. Gratz? ___________________________________________

______________________________________ Gee, Mr Gratz, I think you just have, in a very sneaky sort of way, "have you not?" ______________________________________

_________________________________________ As far as I can tell, Larry is thorough through-and-through! _________________________________________

_________________________________________ Gosh, Mr. Gratz, Thanks for settin' me straight on that! (Actually I was commenting on your overall style or modus operandi in dealing with people who don't agree with you...) And as for the Russo "case," maybe he had his own damn reasons for not divulging all of his information "when he was first interviewed." _________________________________________

________________________________________ Problem is, Mr. Gratz, you seem to think that you're involved in so many deadly legal fights here on this forum. ________________________________________

_______________________________________ John, I think you meant to write Wheaton here. Thomas _______________________________________

___________________________________________ Of course you're right in a perverse sort of way, Mr. Gratz (as you occasionally are; a way of arguing you learned in law school, perhaps?). Jenkins probably wasn't "utterly depraved and morally corrupt." He may have been just an upright member of the community who truly believed that it was his "Patriotic Duty" to help (permanently) eliminate someone he perceived to be a serious threat to our "national security" : that "notorious Commie Sympathizer and Traitor"--- JFK! FWIW, Thomas (I am hereby editing my original post.) ___________________________________________

___________________________________________ Of course you're right in a perverse sort of way, Mr. Gratz (as you occasionally are; a way of arguing you learned in law school, perhaps?). Jenkins probably wasn't "utterly depraved and morally corrupt." He probably was an upright member of the community and "Patriot" who truly believed that it was his "Patriotic Duty" to help (permanently) eliminate someone he perceived to be a serious threat to our "national security" : that "notorious Commie Sympathizer and Traitor"--- JFK! FWIW, Thomas ___________________________________________

_______________________________________ You are correct, (Ex) Counselor. _______________________________________

_________________________________________________ Mr. Baldwin, Welcome to this forum. You have very impressive "credentials." Thanks for joining. Thomas _________________________________________________

______________________________________ ?!!!?? Please elaborate on this point (and this point only), Mr. Gratz. Are you actually suggesting that Jenkins was too ethical/moral to "...participate in a plot to kill the President"? FWIW, Thomas ______________________________________

____________________________________________ Al, As regards the planning, or lack thereof, by the Secret Service and/or the Dallas Police Department for DEALY PLAZA and its immediate surroundings for 11/22/63, IMHO they should have realized that the motorcade's route would necessitate the 20'-long limo's making a virtual (Reinhard Heydrich-like) "hairpin turn" at the corner of Houston and Elm and that Greer's negotiating said turn would prevent him from accelerating to a normal speed down Elm Street until he had "straightened out" the limo and gotten it back in its proper position in the middle of the street (doing so, of course, without subjecting the Kennedys and the Connelys to too many "G's" and/or too much centrifugal force -- afterall, Kennedy did have a bad back, and regardless, I suppose that maintaining a proper level of decorum was important in any normal situation). The SS and the DPD were also (presumably) aware of the tall buildings, the concrete structures (pergolas. etc) the grassy knoll, the trees, the wooden fence atop the grassy knoll, the parking lot behind the wooden fence, the triple overpass, etc, all being in general proximity to that "hairpin turn." The Dallas Police Department, especially, should have anticipated the crowds' thinning out after the turn at Houston and Elm (as indeed it did thin out). Given this and the above-mentioned factors, the DPD should have known that that stretch of the route would be one of the more dangerous sections. Why? Unobstructed "lines of sight" for any potential shooter(s) in this section! Also, any potential shooter(s) would probably feel more free to operate here due to a lower probability of an onlooker's spotting him/them and yelling out something like "Hey, there's a guy with a gun over there!!! Duck!!!!" IMHO, therefore, the DPD should at least have posted some officers behind of/in front of the wooden fence and should have positioned more officers on the triple overpass, all with "handhelds" (and those on the overpass with "glasses," too, if feasible). What do you think, Al? FWIW, Thomas _____________________________________________

__________________________________ Yeah, take me for example. I ain't shy... __________________________________

___________________________________________ Excellent post, Duke. I've read somewhere that presidential advisor Dave Powers, who was riding in "Halfback" right behind Kennedy's limo, felt that they were "riding into an ambush." (Wonder what gave him that impression.) FWIW, Thomas ___________________________________________

_____________________________________ Pat, Points taken... Thanks. Thomas _____________________________________