Thomas Graves

Adrej, You seem to be avoiding my point that it is impossible for a person who has normal, equal-length legs to stand reasonably safely and comfortably with one foot on a landing, and the other foot on a step that is 7 inches below the landing, and keep their shoulders parallel with the landing. -- TG

Andrej, Since one of the purposes of this thread is to try to identify Sarah Stanton in films taken during and immediately after the assassination, I believe that what I'm posting here is on topic, in that it could help us to locate a probably average-height (5' 5" - 5' 6") Sarah Stanton in said films. To wit: It makes a lot more sense to me physics-wise, anatomy-wise, and context-wise that the "Prayer Man" who is visible in Wiegman and Couch-Darnell is a 5' 5" or 5' 6" person (Sarah Stanton?) who, as we can see in the Darnell clip, was standing sufficiently close to the EDIT ALERT: WEST wall and sufficiently near the top step to have his right hand (and only his right hand) in the sunlight, and who must be standing with both feet on the landing in order to look the way he looks in the frames. Why do I say both of "Prayer Man's" feet must be on the landing? Because in both Wiegman and Darnell, "Prayer Man's" shoulders appear to be parallel with the plane of the landing. To say it again in a slightly different way -- even if you were to depict "Prayer Man" (and the others) as they appear in a Wiegman frame by using the new software and by using the same portal dimensions you used for the Darnell frame, it would still show that Prayer Man couldn't have been standing the way he is in your Darnell graphic in which it is obvious that in order to (rightfully-so) keep "Prayer Man's" shoulders parallel with the plane of the landing, and (wrongfully, imho) his right foot on the top step, you had to make his right leg freakishly longer than his left. And here's another thing: It looks to me as though Prayer Man is turned about 70 degrees farther to his left in Couch-Darnell than he is in Wiegman, and for the life of me I can't figure out how made that pivot on just one foot. L: Wiegman frame R: Darnell frame -- TG

Andrej, I'm a bit confused. Assuming that the portal dimensions were the same for Darnell as they had been about 30 seconds earlier for Wiegman, why didn't you use the improved software program you used for your Darnell depiction to make a comparable depiction of Wiegman? -- TG

Andrej, Thank you for the explanation. Question: Were the doorway dimensions in Darnell as big a problem for you as they apparently are in Wiegman? Regardless, if I remember correctly, some time ago Brian Doyle refuted your interpreting of Wiegman as showing "Prayer Man" standing with one foot on the top step by pointing out that if "Prayer Man" had stood that way in Wiegman, his left side would have been illuminated by sunlight, not unlike the left side of a reporter was in an Allen photo. Would you care to comment? -- TG

Thanks, Andrej. By the way, have you ever considered doing a computer graphic of Wiegman? -- TG

Andrej, I do realize that this is your interpretation of a Darnell frame. Bearing that in mind, it seems to me, given the fact that Ike Altgens' LOS in Altgens 6 was about 90° to the left of Darnell's LOS in this frame (plus the fact that Lovelady had already moved to the center hand railing at some point between the Hughes clip and Altgens' 6), that your "Stanton" would have to have been standing much farther to our right in your Darnell interpretation, above, in order to have shown up in Altgens 6 looking like a blob photographically affixed from behind to leaning-forward-at-the-center-handrailing Lovelady's left cheek, not to mention the problem posed by the fact that your blob-like "5' 4" Stanton" is not only visible peeking out from behind Lovelady like that, but is also somehow tall enough to obscure the right rear portion of 5' 8" Shelley's head. So, even disregarding the above-mentioned LOS problem, do you think your five-four or so Stanton was sufficiently tall to lean her head forward enough, from behind Lovelady, to cover Shelley's head like that? All I've tried to do, above, is to point out two problems that I discern in your analysis of "Stanton" in Altgens 6, vis-à-vis your "Stanton" in that very special Darnell frame, above. Care to comment? Respectfully, -- TG PS Oh yeah, and the fact that Altgens' photo was shot at least a few feet below the clip that Darnell took while sitting on top of the "camera car," making "5' 4" Stanton's" blob-like, obscuring head lean even more improbable, in my humble opinion. EDIT: According to your overhead graphic and the abovementioned LOS problem, wouldn't your Purple Woman, as positioned in Darnell, be a much better candidate for that blob-like "growth" on Lovelady's left cheek in Altgens 6, except for the fact that you've calculated her to be only 4' 11" tall? And what are we to make of that diagonal shadow on Shelley's head? Isn't that being cast upon him by part of the building? Shouldn't your "Stanton's" face be in it, too, and therefore invisible to us? Taking into consideration all of the problematic things, above, isn't it more likely that your blob-like, omnipresent, multidimensional, shape-shifting "Sarah Stanton" in Altgens 6 is nothing but a reflection and/or a photographic "artifact" and/or ... gasp ..... Lovelady's left ear?

Bart, How many minutes before the assassination did Pauline Sanders "place" Sarah Stanton's exact position on the top platform? Five? Ten? Isn't it possible that Stanton moved to a different part of the platform during the intervening minutes? -- TG

Michael, And I absolutely love it when Peter Dale Scott tells John Newman (to James DiEugenio's great mortification, no doubt) that John has just now convinced him (Peter) that Nosenko was a false defector! -- TG

I agree. I guess I missed it. -- TG

David, Here's a little something for your followers to consider. http://www.russianbooks.org/oswald/discrep.htm (Do try to be nice, now.) -- TG

Bumped for Vanessa Loney. If Castro or Khrushchev did it, what kind of evidence should we expect to find, Vanessa? Neither the Cuban nor the Russian government is subject to the Freedom of Information Act, right? And how much evidence? Oodles and gobs? Isn't it interesting that false defector Yurily Nosenko said KGB didn't even interview Oswald in the USSR ("because Oswald looked so crazy and dangerous"), when in fact they interviewed him twice (according to John Newman)? Regardless, how are we to explain the fact that Silvia Duran told the Mexican authorities right after the assassination that the "Oswald" she'd dealt with was short (she was only 5' 3.5", herself), blond-haired, and blue-eyed, which not only described 5' 7" Nikolai Leonov, but dovetailed perfectly with Eusebio Azcue's even more Leonov-like 1978 description, i.e., that "Oswald" was about 35 years old, blond-haired, skinny, very thin-faced, and was wearing a suit (as KGB officer Leonov did every workday as Third Secretary at the Soviet Embassy)? And how could it be that in the 1990s, the above-mentioned Nikolai Leonov said that HE had met ONE-ON-ONE with the emotional, revolver-packin' Oswald at the Soviet Embassy on SUNDAY, September 29, 1963? -- TG

Paul, It seems to me that you're preaching to a choir of one, here. -- TG

What "indications" are there that your Russian-speaking Hungarian, "Harvey," and his "caretaker mother" moved to my hometown of San Diego in 1955? -- TG

Vanessa, I'm saying that Oswald was a CIA asset but had nothing to with the assassination? Really? I'm saying that? In case you're wondering, I now believe that Oswald (based on what my hero, Tennent H. Bagley, *allegedly* told Malcolm Blunt) must have been a witting false detector to the USSR in 1959, but I fail to see how that in-and-of-itself has any bearing on Oswald's guilt or innocence in the JFK assassination, or how it, in-and-of-itself, implicates the CIA or any members thereof in same. Ditto regarding Oswald's probably-CIA/FBI sponsored FPCC activities. Perhaps you could explain it to me? PS If you're thinking Mexico City, it's my opinion that all we can be sure of there is that Oswald was telephonically impersonated twice in that city (and perhaps once physically at the Cuban consulate by a short, 30-ish, blond-haired, blue-eyed, very thin-faced, suit-wearing man), but probably not impersonated by anyone at all (not even himself!) at the Soviet one. -- TG

Sandy, May I demonstrate something? Above, you wrote the phrase "individual believing," rather than the correct, "individual's believing." Now, how could you, a highly intelligent and highly educated, born-in-America guy, get that sort of grammar wrong on a fairly consistent basis (iirc), but a dude who was born in Hungary (and who didn't start learning English until he was about ten years old, and had already learned the very un-English languages of Hungarian and Russian) could? -- TG

Tom Graves replied: Pamela, It's evident that you haven't read Tennent H. Bagley's 35-page (2015 PDF) "Ghosts of the Spy Wars," much less his 2007 book, "Spy Wars." Both are free to read on the Internet. Or maybe you have, and you think Bagley's a l-i-a-r? -- TG PS Are you aware that, according to Bagley, he and CIA psychologist John Gittinger both witnessed Nosenko, near the "breaking point" twice, mutter to himself, "I can't tell them the truth, I can't tell them the truth ..."? As though he'd been KGB "MKULTRAed" before he was sent here? My reply to James DiEugenio: James, Have you watched this, yet? You're in it, you know. My favorite part is when Peter Dale Scott turns to John Newman near the end of Part 2 and says "You've just now convinced me that Nosenko was a false defector." -- TG

James, Did you read my heavily edited and highly informative post? Would you like to comment on its substance? (Side question: Were you severely disappointed at John Newman's recent presentation in San Francisco when Peter Dale Scott turned to him near the end and told John that he (John) had just convinced him that Yuri Nosenko was a false defector, after all? I mean, I mean, I mean .... is that why you couldn't bring yourself to clap for John after he'd finished? (Nice "cover job," by the way. Not to worry, though. I'll just wait the mandatory 24 hours and "bump" it again, but probably without editing it nearly as much as I did this time.) -- TG

Heavily Edited and Bumped

David, Not if he was sent there as part of a mole hunt, or to try to recruit a Ruskie. But then, again, I'm not so sure he went to Mexico City. -- TG

Bart, Find Calvery yet? -- TG

Bart, Did you ever find Gloria Calvery in the Z-Film or Couch-Darnell? You do realize, don't you, that Karen Westbrook was obviously very, very confused when she recently ... "identified," ... from behind and 55 years after the fact ... "herself" (actually Sharon Simmons), ... "Gloria Calvery" (actually Gloria Jeanne Holt), ... and "... maybe Carol Reed" (actually self-described Native American, Stella Mae Jacob) in the Z-Film? Laughing Out Loud, -- TG

Bart, Is that all you got? Do you really think Sarah Stanton was standing behind 6' 1" Buell Wesley Frazier, you know, so that she wouldn't be able to see the motorcade? Wouldn't it have made more sense for her to stand between Frazier and "Prayer Man"? (That is, of course, unless she was "Prayer Man"?) If Sarah Stanton was standing behind Buell Wesley Frazier, and if she was the "Sarah" with whom Frazier had spoken, up there on the landing a few seconds after the assassination, wouldn't he have said in his 2013 interview that he had "turned" around" to speak with her, rather than "turned" to speak with her? -- TG

James, After attending John Newman's presentation in San Francisco a few weeks ago, do you still believe Yuri Nosenko was a true defector? Well, at least John convinced Peter Dale Scott that Nosenko was a false defector. -- TG

Bart, In his WC testimony, Lovelady was unfortunately cut off while listing the people near him during the assassination. In his HSCA testimony, however, he was allowed to finish, and said that the people near him were (obviously from our right to left) William Shelley, Buell Wesley Frazier, and Sarah Stanton. Period. Full stop. When we look at Altgens 6, we see that the people immediately around Lovelady were William Shelley, Buell Wesley Frazier, and your so-called "Prayer Man." It's clear to me that Lovelady named the people to his left, rear, and right. In order. -- TG

Michael, Thank you for turning me onto that article. Fascinating stuff! Until skimming it just now, I'd never considered the possibility that Jack Ruby was a Cuban asset. Hmm ....... -- TG