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Gene Kelly

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  1. Thanks for the response Jim. Not sure why any objective person - who does their due diligence - would continue to defame Garrison, or defend Thornley. I suppose that I'm preaching at the saved here, but strong opinions/emotions still prevail. I can understand putting some stock/faith in Thornley's persona (and skepticism about Jim Garrison) in the mid-to-late 60's ... but not today, after all the released AARB records. It seems that informed readers are correct in thinking that Garrison should've aimed his prosecution at Thornley instead of Shaw (and for sound reason). But I remain curiou
  2. Jim I just finished reading your two-part series on Kerry Thornley. Its wonderfully laid out, and convincing. Its difficult to see how anyone would portray this character as an innocent libertarian. Thornley's life is full of numerous "remarkable coincidences" (as Garrison once stated) which crop up in his purported association with Oswald. I agree with your conclusion that - along with the Paines - Thornley's testimony and so-called 'books' were intended as an incriminating character assassination of Oswald (and clearly disinformation). His inexplicable move to New Orleans in Februa
  3. Elmer Moore's comments (and confession) to University of Washington graduate student James Gochenaur in May of 1970 have always given me pause. In this complex assassination story - with so many twists/turns, uncertainties and misdirection - his simple statement that "JFK was a Commie sympathizer" sums the whole thing up. It reflects motive, validates that the autopsy and wounds were misrepresented, HSCA and AARB knew who/where the true plotters were, FBI and SS complicity, and even Oswald's limited role. That conversation with Moore is a Rosetta Stone for the entire affair.
  4. I don't recognize too many names in this list of celebrity supporters that I would hold on a pedestal or personally admire ... no one here to brag about (imho): Roseanne Barr, Gary Busey, Mike Tyson, Kid Rock, Dennis Rodman, Dana White, Tia Tequila, Chumlee from Pawn Stars, Willie Robertson, Jerry Falwell Jr., Charlie Sheen, Tom Brady, Stephen Baldwin, Kirstie Alley, Sarah Palin. Jack Nicholas surprises and disappoints me, but Golf Week published an article that explains Nicklaus being a vocal Republican and no wallflower when it comes to election campaigns.
  5. Micah As a physicist, I couldn't resist addressing the topic of why the sky appears "blue": Before white light reaches the Earth’s surface, the light waves collide with the nitrogen and oxygen atoms in the atmosphere. The light scatters or is re-emitted at different frequencies (or colors). Higher frequencies or smaller wavelengths (blue and purple) are more intensely scattered and thus bounce in all directions more than lower frequencies (red or orange). The scattering of high frequencies alone would cause the sky to appear blue and purple, but our eyes work better (because our reti
  6. Sorry to be late to this thread, but I just finished O'Neill's "Chaos" book. Its well done, a good read, and makes a compelling case for CIA/Jolyon West involvement in the Tate/LaBianca murders (imho) even without the elusive smoking gun. O'Neill certainly did his homework, and tried to leave no stones unturned over a 20-year effort. He talked to an impressive array of witnesses and sources. I'm more than ever convinced that Dr. West was an evil sort, and the TLB murders (and many others not officially connected) were - as one colleague of West's described it - an MK/Ultra experiment t
  7. Jim I too enjoy your work immensely, particularly the added perspective you provide on American history in the 60's and 70's. As a scientist/engineer, I paid little attention to those topics during the course of my education. I grew up during those times, yet know so little about the unvarnished truth. Unfortunately, that truth is not always found in the history books that our schools and teachers schools are constrained by. One of the reasons that I find the JFK assassination so interesting is that it has provided me with a more sophisticated view of (and a renewed interest in) modern
  8. Rob, I'm not a "Prouty supporter". I know precious little about him. He had a respectful military career, and was a decorated pilot. He knew many of the principals of the JFK and Vietnam stories. He wrote some books (none of which I've read), and he was suspicious of the CIA (as anyone who seriously researches this case should be). I don't put him on a pedestal or rely upon a movie to develop my opinions about the assassination. If you read my earlier post, I stated that he has always seemed too good to be true and so I view his "allegations" with some measure of skepticism. Perhaps he embe
  9. The AARB was trying to close doors/windows (not open up new ones). My experience with whistleblowers (as Prouty was treated) is that they are in a lose-lose proposition. Even when they are right (and validated), the end result of their testimony is painful and unproductive. They become pariahs and unfulfilled. I suspect that Prouty was trying to get in and out of the interview with as little damage and pain as possible. No one was going to take on those powers that are implicated ... many of whom were already dead, with the key events almost 20years in the rear view mirror. The AARB wanted
  10. Doug Valentine raises suspicions about Ellsberg. One wonders about the true nature of the Pentagon Papers, the plumbers break-in of Ellsberg's psychiatrist's office, Hunt's role and of course Watergate. The implication (by Hougan) is to misdirect the attention/spotlight on the Pentagon for Vietnam, and away from the CIA's PHOENIX atrocities and drug capers. Then there's the close association of Lansdale with Ellsberg and Lucien Conein (plus Walt Rostow, Allen Dulles and Henry Cabot Lodge). Lansdale testified (and lied) before the Rockefeller Commission, giving up William Harvey. Lansdale's p
  11. I tried to find the source of Lansdale's relationship with Daniel Ellsberg. One such article is found in Counterpunch on March 8, 2003 entitled “Will the Real Daniel Ellsberg Please Stand Up!” written by Douglas Valentine, who shares that: In 1965, Ellsberg was assigned as a Pentagon observer to the CIA’s Revolutionary Development (RD) Program in South Vietnam. Here Ellsberg came under the influence of his mentor, CIA officer cum Air Force General Edward Lansdale. The mass murderer Graham Greene used as the model for Alden Pyle in “The Quiet American,” Lansdale was the architect of the CI
  12. This thread contains one of the best groups of JFK plot "thinkers" that exist (imho) so we should all be peaceful and respectful. I'm reminded of Mick Jagger's question posed at Altamont Raceway in December 1969 (i.e. "why are we fighting?"). Maybe that's too heavy of an analogy, but it came to mind. On a lighter note, I always enjoy Steve's input ... and am wary whenever "Colonels" are introduced. I've never given Fletcher Prouty much thought, but his access and affiliations are uniquely interesting. So is that AARB interview, as well as the later Garrison letter. But not everyone
  13. Jim I read your excellent critique of the Ken Burns PBS film ... its one of the best summaries of Vietnam that I've seen. Such a complex story, so rife with politics and deception, misleading information, and of course tragedy. In returning to the thread's topic, I struggle with how to judge Edward Lansdale. Prouty's suspicions appear well-founded. Lansdale was a creature of the Cold War and its not too difficult to connect him with the Dulles brothers, Nixon and all manner of covert operations. Lansdale was characterized as a "chameleon" by Prouty in his March 1990 letter to Jim G
  14. Joe I don't know too much about Fletcher Prouty, and never thought too deeply about his opinions until reading this AARB transcript. For me personally, he has always seemed too good to be true. He authored a number of dramatic books (none of which I've read) which apparently experienced difficulty getting published. That he raised suspicions at the time is to his credit, and could be viewed as courageous. I would note however that he is an "insider" as far as intelligence operations and military liaison are concerned ... so (as many in the JFK community), I try to keep an open mind, b
  15. This is an interesting thread. I've never given much close attention to Colonel Prouty (although its always the "colonels", as Steve Thomas cautions us). He is of course interesting, and authored some interesting books. He was in a unique position to see the interconnections of the military and the intelligence community ... a valuable perspective for those who want to understand what happened in Dealey Plaza. I would try not to judge Prouty's allegations - which is what AARB was trying to substantiate in their September 1996 interview - with how he is portrayed in the movie JFK. T
  16. CT/Ron I'm not sure if its Rick James or the Beatles ... but personally I vote for the Rolling Stones. Gene
  17. And I agree with Robert's comments ... this was tantamount to treason!
  18. This is a great thread, and sheds light on a critical myth that's been upheld for 50+ years ... that JFK cancelled the air strikes, and caused the invasion to fail. Tragically, one could argue that this myth was used against JFK, and possibly got him killed (amongst other reasons). Bissell should be held accountable in a historical context, and what he did was unforgivable and despicable: In point of fact both Esterline and Hawkins ultimately related that Bissell had told them the D Day air strikes were cancelled by JFK but that after seeing all the information they had to conclude th
  19. Vince's only son, Ernest Anthony Salandria (Ernie), 60, of Cape May Court House, NJ, passed away on April 12, 2020. He was born and raised in Philadelphia, and graduated from Central High School (his dad's alma mater) in 1977. Ernie's obit mentions that his family’s rich Italian heritage lead him to open Ernesto’s 1521 Café on Spruce St, a popular center city restaurant. He worked side-by-side with his extended family at the café, where the family’s recipes became legendary fare to his grateful patrons. In later years, he traveled to Tuscany every August, accompanied by family and friends, f
  20. Jim Agreed and understood. I was just addressing John Butler's question. They (the CBS weapons experts) did not have access to the actual (alleged) rifle which was otherwise in poor shape. The also had larger targets, and the benefit of practice time. The published average for all of the experts was about 1.2 hits out of 3 (on the enlarged target). It also sounds like the jammed bolt action was a ruse for the added failures of the marksmen. While I'm not condoning the CBS News executive behavior, it isn't surprising to me in retrospect. This was 1967, only a little more than two years
  21. John In the 1967 CBS News trial demonstrations, of the 12 first attempts, only one shooter was able to make two hits in less than 5.6 seconds. Of the 43 total attempts, the 12 expert shooters were able to replicate the Warren Commission conclusion (two hits in less than 5.6 seconds) only four times. The marksmen were also allowed to practice prior to the tests. The more compelling observation was the number of instances where the shooter could not get any result ... once the clip was loaded, the bolt action jammed in a number of attempts. This would require the shooter to realign the tar
  22. Regarding luck versus skill, it seems the actual shooters were very good, as the objective was a head shot, and none of the incoming ever hit Jackie. The simultaneity of shots was also expert, as was use of the of "canyon shoot" technique. Distraction and diversion - augmented by the subsequent Tippit killing - allowed for a clean get-away. Blowing someone's head off while sitting next to his wife, at high noon, was not simply a murder ...
  23. Paul/Ron Its interesting that this thread was first started almost ten years ago ... and recently revisited by Lawrence. The question as to why a Carcano has always intrigued me. My reading convinces me that there's some hidden (ironic) symbolism to its selection as the incriminating weapon. Many excellent researchers have poked holes in its provenance, most notably Gil Jesus, David Josephs, Lisa Pease and John Armstrong to name a few more recently ... and historically George Evica, Craig Roberts, Graf and Bartholomew, John Craig, Michael Griffith, Bill MacDowall, William Orchard, e
  24. Thanks Ron, appreciate the shout-out. I am only summarizing the good work of others (whom I've followed on the Forum over the years) like David, Bill Simpich, Jim D. and John Armstrong (to name a few). It was CIA, all the way (with a little help from their police friends). Oswald’s postal box was likely being monitored, but (strangely) Harry Holmes never mentioned that Oswald would have to had filled out a 2162 form. All indications are that Oswald did not pick up the rifle package at the Post Office in Dallas ... there is no paperwork to substantiate this, and no witnesses. I don't t
  25. Ordering the revolver appears to be some form of an inside joke. Whoever did order that gun from Seaports was having an inside joke in the process by claiming the name of the person who could vouch for the buyer was DF Drittal. Greg Parker maintains this stands for the German phrase Dienst Fur Drittel - "on behalf of a third party." Another coincidence is the G-2 linguist John Hurt, who married a Russian immigrant, Ana Drittel, a performing, NY cellist. Eleven months later, the FBI obtains a mail order record of an order for a pistol purchase, with a witness signature signed D.E. or D.F. Drit
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