Chris Scally

Dr.Fetzer: On January 5, in post #4 of this thread, you said: "WE KNOW THE FILM IS A FAKE AND WHERE AND WHEN IT WAS DONE" (your emphasis). Today, over 500 posts later in the thread, I'm still waiting to see any direct evidence in support of that statement, so I would like to put the following three short questions to you, if I may: 1. Where, specifically, was the Zapruder film altered? 2. When, specifically, was it altered? 3. Can you provide the names of any of those who were directly involved in altering it, or even present during the alteration process? I would respectfully ask that you do not respond by telling me to read your books (I have purchased and read them), telling me to read your published articles (I have done so), or telling me to study your Duluth material (I have done so). Chris.

David: I would like to discuss something with you "off line", but I don't appear to have a current e-mail address for you. When I tried to PM you through this Forum, I got a message saying that "The member cannot receive any new messages". I would be very grateful if you would contact me at your convenience (it is not a matter of any urgency) by e-mail directly, or via the "Click here to e-mail me" option in my profile here. Many thanks. Chris Scally.

Belated but Very Best Wishes for a Happy Birthday, Bill. Keep up the good work, young man.... Chris

Michael & Hugo: Many thanks indeed for your help. I don't know how I missed the reference in Larry Sneed's book..... Chris

Can anyone help me, please, with a query regarding assassination witness Malcolm Summers (seen falling to the ground in the background of Zapruder frames 353-356)? About a month ago, David Lifton wrote (in the Moorman thread, IIRC):"Interviews conducted by one researcher, years ago, with Malcolm Summers (who is shown falling in the Z film) indicate that [DPD motorcycle officer B.W.] Hargis cycle actually tipped over, and that he had to then place it rightside up, before leaving it, in the street, and running over to the light pole. Other films show Hargis' cycle upright, and simply standing there (upright) with the kickstand down, as Hargis is about to leave it (and/or has already left it) and run towards the light pole (see Darnell's film)." A private e-mail, and one sent via the Forum to David have not been answered - so if you are lurking, David, have you changed your e-mail address recently? Does anyone have any more information about the researcher, and if he/she wrote anything further about Summers' story anywhere, please? I've looked everywhere, but cannot find any other reference to this story about Hargis' bike falling over. Did any other eyewitnesses mention it? Again, I cannot find anything on this. Interestingly, however, two of the other motorcycle cops in the motorcade mentioned this incident, but I always assumed they were mistaken, and were confusing Hargis with Officer Haygood, who parked his motorcycle on the north side of Elm (see Couch film). Any information will be very much appreciated. Chris

Chris, thanks for your response. First, a bit of confusion. In your earlier post you said the first HSCA interview was on November 16, 1977. In your new post you write that it was on October 26. 1977. Which is correct? Second, if you ever get access to the interviews again, I'd appreciate it if you could post the exact words in the report regarding 1) Hargis' location when he heard the shots, 2) How many shots he thought he heard, 3) the impact location of the shots, 4) Kennedy's and Connally's response to the shots, and 5) from where he thought the shots were fired. While he has been interviewed plenty, I have turned chapters 5 through 9 of my website into a database of witness statements, so that people can see ALL the recorded statements of the many witnesses to the shooting at one glance, to minimize the impact of cherry-picking. Thanks again, Pat Pat: First, my apologies that it has taken me so long to get back to you, but I didn't get an opportunity to look for the files until last night. Re the discrepancy over the date of the second contact with Hargis. This was brought about by the fact that the actual interview took place on October 26, 1977, but the interview notes were not typed up until November 16. Again, my apologies for any confusion caused. I have typed below, verbatim, the interview notes as they relate to the questions you asked, followed by my answers to your five questions. However, as I now have the material to hand, please let me know if there is anything further you require. Chris. Interview of Bobby Weldon Hargis at his home on August 8, 1978 at 2:30 pm Interviewer Jack Moriarty; interview notes transcribed by "Ross" on August 23, 1978 JFK document #014362, RIF 180-10113-10272 "When the first report sounded, he was "about one-third of the way down Elm", having made the last turn from Houston. It sounded like a firecracker, but he was unable to tell where it came from. He looked to his right and saw Connally turning and the President appeared to be leaning forward as if he was trying to hear what the Governor was saying. He had seen JFK lean forward in like manner during the motorcade as he and Connally had been conversing. This time, though, the President had an expression of pain on his face. When the second shot was fired - no doubt gunfire this time as it hit the President's head - the limousine slowed so much it practically stopped and he had to put his feet down to maintain balance. Then the driver accelerated and several motormen started the escort. Hargis remained behind parking his bike where it stood in the left side of Elm now about one half way down the hill. He ran to the grassy knoll and continued until he had reached the top section of the underpass. Finding nothing significant, he returned to his bike - still on the stand with the radio on (and working) and the engine off. He started the bike and drove back up Elm and parked just west of the front door of the TSBD where he joined Brewer as they became part of the effort to seal off this building, although, he adds, at that time no-one was certain just where the shots had come from." So, in summary - 1) Hargis' location when he heard the shots - about one-third of the way down Elm 2) How many shots he thought he heard - he mentions two shots 3) the impact location of the shots - only mentions the second shot, which hit the President's head 4) Kennedy's and Connally's response to the shots - Connally turning, and the President leaning forward as if trying to hear what Connally was saying. President had an expression of pain on his face 5) from where he thought the shots were fired - unable to tell where the first shot came from. Overall, no one was initially certain where the shots had come from Interview of Robert Hargis at his home on October 26, 1977 Interviewers James Kelly and Harold Rose; interview notes transcribed by "am" (initials) on November 16, 1977 JFK document #003300, RIF 180-10107-10243 "When they turned left on Elm from Houston, he was watching the President's car. Shortly afterwards, he heard a shot. He saw President Kennedy slump forward and Governor Connally turn. He felt at the time that Connally might have been hit and the President was leaning forward to find out what happened. He said the first shot sounded to him like a firecracker. The second shot hit JFK in the head. The presidential car had slowed almost to a stop. After the second shot, the car accelerated rapidly and sped to Parkland Hospital. Hargis said he pulled over to the curb at the grassy knoll. He got off the bike and went up the hill on the grass. He didn't see anyone with a gun, so he went over to the Texas School Book Depository at 411 Elm Street and helped other police officers seal it off." In summary, therefore: 1) Hargis' location when he heard the shots - on Elm Street, shortly after he turned onto Elm from Houston 2) How many shots he thought he heard - not specified directly, but he referred to two 3) the impact location of the shots - thought the first one might have hit Connally, second one hit JFK in the head 4) Kennedy's and Connally's response to the shots - JFK slumped forward and Connally turned, in response to first shot. Did not comment on reactions to second shot 5) from where he thought the shots were fired - not specified Memorandum To: Clifford Fenton From: Jack Moriarty Date: December 29, 1978 Re: Bobby Weldon Hargis Reinterview JFK document # 014224, RIF 180-10109-10354 "Reached Mr. Hargis at his new residence... today and developed the following additional information. At the sound of the first shot, he was "in position" - some five to six feet from the left corner of the rear bumper of John F. Kennedy limousine. At the sound of the second shot, he was a bit closer (the limousine slowed and nearly stopped) - perhaps four feet. By the third shot (although he doesn't recall the actual, but saw John F. Kennedy's head explode), he was "almost even with Jackie - no more than two or three feet, if that."" In summary: 1) Hargis' location when he heard the shots - five to six feet to the left rear of the limo 2) How many shots he thought he heard - three, "although he doesn't recall the actual" (presumably third) shot 3) the impact location of the shots - third shot hit President's head 4) Kennedy's and Connally's response to the shots - saw the President's head explode 5) from where he thought the shots were fired - not mentioned

Chris, or anyone else in the know.... are these interviews online? If not, can you post all the statements regarding the shooting--when the shots were fired, how many, where the bullets impacted, etc? I noticed also that the last date is the date Blakey presented Hargis' WC testimony to the HSCA committee. Is the final quote a paraphrase of this testimony, or was there really a separate interview on that same date? Pat: The three interviews to which I referred are HSCA documents, all on file at NARA, but not online anywhere as far as I know (I bought copies from NARA). The details are: An interview by James Kelly and Harold Rose on October 26, 1977 (JFK document #003300, RIF 180-10107-10243); an interview report by Jack Moriarty dated August 8, 1978 (JFK document #014362, RIF 180-10113-10272); and a memorandum of yet another interview with Hargis by Jack Moriarty on December 29, 1978 (JFK document # 014224, RIF 180-10109-10354). Unfortunately, they are filed away somewhere right now, so I don't have immediate access to them, but I assure you that the dates, and the quotes, are accurate. You are correct about the one on December 29, 1978 - I hadn't spotted the significance of the date before you pointed it out. I have a vague recollection that it might have been a telephone contact between Moriarty and Hargis on that date, but I'm not certain without looking up the actual document. If you need anything further, let me know, and I'll dig the old files out of storage. Chris.

Thanks for the update, Greg. I had a five-way bypass nearly six years ago, and it was very tough going for a while, but knowing that you got through the surgery, and will feel unbelievably better in due course, is a great incentive to keep fighting. Keep fighting it, Jack. Believe me, there will be good days and bad days, but soon you will be having more good ones than bad ones, and that is when you will really start to feel on top of things again. Chris

Robin: Great work, as always. Chris.

Robin: I agree with Gary - Chaney on the left of picture, and Martin on the right, without doubt. Chris

Robin: The three motorcycle officers in McIntyre's photo are Gray, Lumpkin, and Sgt. Ellis. Chris

Bill: I've had a quick search and, in summary, a (hopefully useful) reply to your two questions: Gordon Shanklin phoned FBI HQ in Washington around 5 pm on the Saturday evening, and told Cartha D. DeLoach that they had been unable to have the film copied in Dallas, and that the Dallas office has no projector capable of viewing the film. Shanklin is told to “immediately” send the film to Washington, and the film is sent via American Airlines Flight 20, which departed Dallas for Friendship Airport in Baltimore at 5:20 pm. The flight was met by FBI agents, who brought the film by car to FBI Headquarters in Washington, D.C. In a covering memo, Shanklin asks that the FBI Lab make three second-generation copies, one for Washington and two for the Dallas Field Office. References: Wrone, p. 30; Trask's "National Nightmare", pp. 121-2; Horne, p. 1346; citing FBI documents 62-109060-68 (DeLoach memo to Mohr); 89-43-1410 (Agents Barrett and Lee memo to Shanklin); 89-43-1A81 (cover sheet of package); and 60-109060-1094 (Shanklin memo to FBI). Chris.

Will: The dates on which the various camera speeds and individual frame numbers were known is as follows, to the best of my knowledge: Zapruder told FBI Agent R.M. Barrett on December 4, 1963 that the Secret Service had access to his camera on the previous day for some unspecified “checking”, and Zapruder handed the camera over to Barrett on December 4. The camera had three standard speeds – animation (single frame), run (16 frames per second), and slow motion (48 frames per second). We know that after Barrett got the camera on December 4, it went to the FBI lab for testing. On December 20, the lab reported that the “normal run speed” of the camera was actually 18.3 fps. The Warren Commission subsequently requested a more detailed study of the camera speed, which the FBI provided on February 3, 1964. That study showed that the fully wound camera (Zapruder said his camera was fully wound) ran at an average of 18.0 to 18.1 fps for the first 10 seconds, it gradually increased to 18.3 to 18.5 fps for the next 20 seconds, then gradually decreased to 18.1 fps for 10 seconds before the final 20 seconds, which ran at an average speed of 17.6 to 17.9 fps. On January 27, the FBI began their examination of the film itself, using a second-generation copy. By January 30, FBI agent Lyndal Shaneyfelt had assigned frame numbers to the individual frames of the film. In summary, then, the camera speed was naturally assumed to be the factory setting of 16 fps until December 20, 1963 when the FBI reported it to be 18.3 fps. More detailed/precise speeds were known by February 3, 1964, and the individual frame numbers were assigned January 27-30, 1964. I cannot find any reference whatsoever to the camera being in the possession of Life at any point, so I don’t know where they could have heard the 18 fps speed before mid-December, at the earliest (remember, the standard camera setting was 16 fps). Interesting..... Chris.

In an earlier post, Bill Kelly asked: "And if this is page 14 - what is a part of where's the rest of it?" Unfortunately, when I sent the single-page document about the "late 1963" examination of the film at NPIC to Bill, it had become detached in my files from the memo which accompanied it. That memo, from E.H. Knoche, Assistant to the CIA Director, to Robert B. Olsen, Senior Counsel, Commission on CIA Activities Within the United States, was dated 7 May 1975, and reads in part: "Attached is an addendum to our comments on the Hoch memorandum. The comments were sent to you on 29 April 1975. The addendum is keyed to Page 16 of the Hoch memo." So my interpretation of the context of the document is that it is an addendum to a memo from the CIA Director's office to the Commission on CIA Activities Within the United States, and attempts to answer a question raised by Paul Hoch on page 16 of a memo which he had earlier sent to the Commission, and which had been referred to the CIA for attention. So, my apologies, Bill, for any confusion caused - and, for what its worth, I believe the document refers to the Dino Brugioni NPIC event on the night of Saturday November 23, 1963. Chris.

Thanks, Todd.

John: Unfortunately not - he never turned towards the camera. However, this black-and-white frame (I cannot recall offhand from what) shows what I believe is Harkness, in the vicinity of the TSBD shortly afterwards. Chris.

Jerry: Robin was correct. That is Harkness' motorcycle, with Officer Fox standing beside it. Harkness was standing at the intersection, and here he is, shown in this Hughes frame. Chris S.

Hi, Chris: Have another look at Bell - viewing the film in motion rather than as still frames, what I think we see is the Secret Service follow-up car. If you run Bell a little further forward from the point shown in the stills in this thread, you'll see the limo pulling alongside Curry as they exit the underpass, so this vehicle must be the one behind the limo - ie. the follow-up car. Agree? Chris.

Jack: I agree with your puzzlement, but I think you've only shown that Bob Groden cut frames out of his copy of Bell. The "Groden Bell" and "Costella Same" frames are very badly blurred - see the three motorcycles ahead of Curry, for example. If one didn't already know what they were, they could be anything one wanted them to be. By the same token, what you have circled in the Groden enhancement as "Chaney" could equally be anything the imagination wants it to be. However, John Costella's "Previous" frame shows the three lead motorcycles to be nothing other than what they are - motorcycles - and to me, the "blur" on Elm is clearly seen to be the limo - not Chaney. I don't know what Bob Groden did to the films - be it appears he left one or more frames out of Bell, for whatever reason (possibly because they were so badly blurred?). Has John Costella got any more sequential frames immediately before this, and we might find out how many frames Groden omitted? Chris

Jack: Hopefully this explains what I mean - and I think what others also mean, with regard to the underpasses. Now, you (or anyone else) can call them anything you like, but I hope this at least identifies the structures in question. Chris

Robin: I think what we see here is the overhead gantry, to the west of the Triple Underpass, on which there are/were traffic signs. The second "underpass" is even further west of this gantry, and is where Elm goes under the Stemmons Freeway before entering the northbound on-ramp, and it was only when they reached that on-ramp that Chaney caught up with Curry. Chris.

Jack: I agree wholeheartedly - but the inconvenient testimony could be about the number of shots, the direction of the shots, the total confusion on the Stemmons on-ramp, the open-mic, or a lot of other things that could have been troublesome to the Commission.... Chris

Jack: My slow response is due to time differences, and not a reluctance to discuss this important issue (and I sincerely hope you were not referring to me in the other "Martin & Chaney" thread as one of "the know-nothings" !). We can argue back and forth about "who said what" for ever and a day - and we'll never really achieve anything, especially when quoting press reports, which we all know are not the most reliable. Josiah Thompson has already quoted what Robin and I said in the other "Chaney/Jackson" thread, so I won't repeat it all again here. However, you said over on that other thread that "[A]ll the movies in DP are altered. All were in the hands of the FBI." Ok, they were in the hands of the FBI, but when (on what date) did all the alterations occur? I might be willing to believe that the films were all altered if the originals (and any copies which existed at that same time) were ever in the same place at the same time, or if we can have a timeline of when all this happened, but - while I have great respect for you as one of the "original" researchers - I have a problem if you are asking me to accept it just because you say so. Can you come up with such a timeline? Chris.

David: James Chaney never "testified" under oath as such. He was not called to testify by the Warren Commission, he was only interviewed by the FBI (by agents Charles T. Brown Jr, and David H. Israelson) on September 8, 1975, and he passed away on April 18, 1976 at the age of 54, before the HSCA came into effect. Chris.

I forgot to mention these quotes from Officer B.W. Hargis' interviews with the HSCA: On November 16, 1977: "The second shot hit JFK in the head. The presidential car had slowed almost to a stop"; On August 8, 1978: "When the second shot was fired - no doubt gunfire this time as it hit the President's head - the limousine slowed so much it practically stopped..."; On December 29, 1978: "... the limousine slowed and nearly stopped ..." The limo nearly, almost, practically - but never actually - stopped.... Chris