Cliff Varnell

(James H. Fetzer @ Feb 27 2010, 09:15 PM) *

Michael, Thanks for such a reasonable post. Jim Lewis does not have a lock on this kind of experiment, which could be performed repeatedly with junked cars, a high-velocity weapon, and a firing position of 200 yards. I cannot understand the incapacity to comprehend that (1) JFK has an entrance wound to his throat,

Always the place to start discussing the JFK assassination! But it isn't enough to point

out the obvious entrance in the throat; we must grasp the fact that the round did not

exit and no round was recovered.

(2) the trajectory from the south end of the Triple Underpass lines up perfectly;

It does? JFK was struck in the throat from the front circa Z190. At Z190 his

head was turned sharply to the right.

The round nicked the right side of his trachea, bruised the tip of his lung,

left a hairline fracture of his right T1 transverse process and an air pocket

overlaying C7 and T1.

This is inconsistent with a shot from the south knoll, to JFK's left.

It is consistent with a shot from Black Dog Man, who had "near

the region of his hands" a "very distinct straight-line feature."

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol12_0006a.htm

Rosemary Willis described this individual as a "conspicuous" person

who managed to "disappear the next instant."

Willis 5 (Z202), taken by Phil Willis as a reflex action flinching from the

gunshot. BDM red box upper left corner.

Thanks to Don Roberdeau's analysis of the Zapruder film we can pinpoint

exactly when "the next instant" was -- right before Rosemary's swift

head-snap Z214-17.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=2394

Hmmm...conspicuous person with a distinct straight line feature near

the region of their hands who disappears about a second after JFK

was shot in the throat.

Hmmmm....if it could get any more obvious I have no idea how.

[quote

Thank you for your thoughts.

I realize that there is limited Hard evidence in the JFK case. The hardest evidence, to me, seems to be a fingerprint from the snipers nest, a picture of 3 tramps analysed by a respected forensic artist and the arrest of a man in the Dal-Tex building. Interesting that those pieces lead to thugs with ties to the Good Ole boys in Texas.

Malcolm (Mac) Wallace, was born in Mt Pleasant, TX in 1921. Accused and convicted murderer.

Charles Harrelson was born in Huntsville, Texas, in 1939. Accused and convicted murderer.

Charles Rogers was born in Texas in 1921. Served in Naval Intelligence. Accused of Murder.

Eugene Hale Brading. a known Mafia courier. in town to visit Texas oil billionaire HL Hunt.

And then there's David Atlee Phillips a/k/a Maurice Bishop CIA Oswald-handler, fingered by

his own family as a Dallas perp....out of Forth Worth, Texas.

The Dal-Tex building was owned by Clint Murchison, Sr. and H.L. Hunt. The cops

never searched it. It offered the best shooter position in the Plaza.

Perhaps they were really DPD or law enforcement and went toward where they thought shots were fired and then quickly corrected their movements to another location, or got cold feet and ran for protection.

Hmmm...Can't square that with Phil Willis getting angry with cops running from

the shooting positions.

I mean, how much suicidal bravery would have it required for average citizens

of Dallas to accuse guys dressed as cops of shooting Kennedy?

I was being a little "Devil's Advocate" there. If true that would prove conspiracy right? In Dallas in those days DPD could do no wrong. I know I was raised there in the forties, fifties. I went to juvenile hall when a Dallas cop caught me drinking out of a colored marked drinking fountain in a park on a hot August day. My dad had to come down and get me out. I was ten years old. It cost my father ten dollars to get me out. Sorry, I drifted off again.

That's why it makes sense to me that the shooters on the north knoll dressed

as cops -- who would have the guts to accuse a Dallas cop knowing full well

they wouldn't be believed?

And Jack White et al did a compelling study of Badgeman -- I chalk up the cop-disguised

shooter scenario as a very high likelihood.

Question: Also about the original flight plans back that changed and the mention of meeting-up with a former Eastern Pilot. Care to comment on that?

Answer: Yes. From what I remember the flight out of Dallas (no flight plan filed) was to originally fly back to Houston Texas where (I thought) I would go back to Florida on another flight and the DC-3 would be flown back to West Palm by an Eastern Airline pilot. I was told another flight out of Red Bird went to Wichita Falls, Texas near the AFB there.

Tosh, do you remember what time it was when the abort team reassembled

back at the plane?

Perhaps they were really DPD or law enforcement and went toward where they thought shots were fired and then quickly corrected their movements to another location, or got cold feet and ran for protection.

Hmmm...Can't square that with Phil Willis getting angry with cops running from

the shooting positions.

I mean, how much suicidal bravery would have it required for average citizens

of Dallas to accuse guys dressed as cops of shooting Kennedy?

If we are to speculate then lets speculate and argue till the next century on some of these thoughts. With all the possibilities established after years.., all the pros and cons and egos.. we are going to be here for a very very-- long long time. Tosh

Not me.

The more I look at the case the less of a mystery it becomes. Others report

the exact opposite experience studying the case, but that's probably because

they spend too much time studying the head wounds.

No, I've found that the witnesses tell us all we need to know, pretty much.

The witnesses, the Dealey Plaza films/photographs, and the properly prepared

contemporaneous documents answer all the key questions, as near as I can tell.

Especially this witness: Rosemary Willis.

From the HSCA report "Presence of Possible Gunman on Grassy Knoll"

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol12_0006a.htm

Ms. Willis...gave no information on the direction or location of the shots, but stated

that her father became upset when the policemen in the area appeared to run away

from where he thought the shots came from; that is, they were running away from

the grassy knoll.

This is the typical nutteresque interpretation of Rosemary's comments, from

Wikipedia:

Rosemary was also documented in the HSCA report that her father, military veteran

Phillip Willis, became upset when the Dallas policemen, sheriffs, and detectives --who

first quickly ran onto the grassy knoll where he thought the shots came from-- then the

authorities ran away from the grassy knoll.

Bollocks!

Since when does any American -- much less a Texan like Phil Willis -- get angry

when the sheriff's posse rides out after the bad guys?

Seems to me like Rosemary and Phillip Willis saw guys dressed as cops immediately

leave their ambush positions.

What do you think, Tosh?

I believe Gator thought the man next to him was someway involved in the attempt on the President's life (Gator's POV) and stationed himself there as a possible person who only wanted to see the parade and to watch this persons movements.

Free Louis Witt!

The Umbrella Man takes a bad rap in my book. Here's Rosemary Willis to the HSCA:

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol12_0006a.htm

The Presence of Possible Gunman on the Grassy Knoll

Rosemary Willis...noticed two persons who looked "conspicuous." One was a man near

the curb holding an umbrella, who appeared to be more concerned with opening and closing

the umbrella than dropping to the ground like everyone else at the time of the shots. The

other was a person who was standing just behind the concrete wall down by the triple

underpass. That person appeared to "disappear the next instant."

Compare Rosemary's description of UM with Witt's description of his actions to

the HSCA:

"I think I went sort of maybe halfway up the grassy area (on the north side of Elm Street),

somewhere in that vicinity. I am pretty sure I sat down....(When the motorcade approached) I think I got up

and started fiddling with that umbrella trying to get it open, and at the same time I was walking forward,

walking toward the street....Whereas other people I understand saw the President shot and his movements;

I did not see this because of this thing (the umbrella) in front of me....My view of the car during that length

of time was blocked by the umbrella's being open."

Louis Witt has been accused of being a xxxx because he had his umbrella opened

as the limousine passed by.

But just because his umbrella was up in time to see JFK doesn't necessarily mean

he managed to locate JFK in time to see the President get hit in the throat. Witt wasn't

paying sufficient attention to JFK -- as per Rosemary Willis and Witt himself.

On another thread awhile back I commented on UM and DCM/Gator:

UM is a major rabbit hole, folks. DCM sat down next to him because DCM wasn't

sure if Witt was a civilian or a redundant signalman and was probably startled by

UM more than anything.

This isn't far from Tosh's view of the interaction between UM and DCM/Gator. After

reading Al Carrier's comments in Ron's article I've come around to Tosh's view on this.

Al Carrier, paraphrased by Ron Ecker: "[W]ould shooters need such a signaler?

Could not shooters more easily see for themselves, through their sights, whether more shots

were needed?"

Wouldn't the shooters have a spotter with binoculars alongside them, instead of a

signalman in the street?

Why would a signalman carry a radio that went unused during the shooting?

If UM and DCM were perps why would they stick around the crime scene?

In my view the actions of DCM/Gator are more consistent with what Tosh describes,

an abort-team member with a radio who latched on to the suspicious, "conspicuous"

(but innocuous) Louis Witt.

Thank You Cliff for taking the time to gather and post all the above. It is certainly food for thought and does seem to fit a common thread of the time.

You're welcome, Tosh. It's great to bounce this stuff to ya. There's more...Laos

was one end of the teeter-totter. The other end was Cuba...

I have been told many times that I, " flew the Attack Team in to assassinate the President". And I have been told in the manner that it was a FACT.. No it was speculation and opinion. I have ask why can't it be that a team was sent in by others in Washington that was not part of the group who wanted the President dead? I have ask many in the Pentagon and in MI about this and most all say they were aware of various people in government that hated the President and wanted him dead. Could it be that some of those launched an operation to kill the President and others in government tried to stop it at the very last minute?

Yes! But I'd speculate that the ones who tried to stop it only wanted to save it for

another day, and thus sought to "abort" the mission rather than expose it. If anything,

Oswald(s) was/were portable.

Here is a demonstration of the kind of pure power that can launch abort missions:

Max Hollands's The Assassination Tapes, pg 57:

At 6:55 p.m. Johnson has a ten minute meeting with Senator J. William Fulbright

and diplomat W. Averell Harriman to discuss possible foreign involvement in the

assassination, especially in light of the two-and-a-half-year sojourn of Lee Harvey

Oswald [in Russia]...Harriman, a U.S. ambassador to Moscow during WWII, is an

experienced interpreter of Soviet machinations and offers the president the

unanimous view of the U.S. government's top Kremlinologists. None of them

believe the Soviets have a hand in the assassination, despite the Oswald association.

Well, that certainly cleared that up -- dinnit?

JFK's body wasn't back in town a half hour before Harriman foreclosed

on any Soviet complicity in his murder -- in spite of a stream of

Oswald-as-Castro-agent "evidence" proliferating like an oil slick that

afternoon and evening.

How could Harriman responsibly rule out the Soviets unless he

actually knew who killed Kennedy?

We know that the Oswald-as-lone-nut "official story" emanated from

the White House Situation Room that afternoon:

From Vincent Salandria's "The Tale Told by Two Tapes":

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...art=#entry31073

(quote on)

In November of 1966, I read Theodore H. White's The Making of the President, 1964...

[O]n page 33 I read the following about the flight back to Washington, D.C. from Dallas:

On the flight the party learned that there was no conspiracy, learned of the

identity of Oswald and his arrest; and the President's mind turned to the

duties of consoling the stricken and guiding the quick.

...* The Situation Room of the White House first fingered Oswald as the

lone assassin when an innocent government, with so much evidence

in Dealey Plaza of conspiracy, would have been keeping all options open.

Therefore this premature birth of the single-assassin myth points to the

highest institutional structure of our warfare state as guilty of the crime

of killing Kennedy. Such a source does not take orders from the Mafia

nor from renegade elements. But such a source is routinely given to

using the Mafia and supposedly out-of-control renegade sources to do

its bidding.

* McGeorge Bundy was in charge of the Situation Room and was spending

that fateful afternoon receiving phone calls from President Johnson, who

was calling from Air Force One when the lone-assassin myth was

prematurely given birth. (Bishop, Jim, The Day Kennedy Was Shot,

New York & Funk Wagnalls, 1968), p. 154) McGeorge Bundy as the

quintessential WASP establishmentarian did not take his orders from the

Mafia and/or renegade elements.

(quote off)

Who did Bundy take orders from?

Joseph Trento, The Secret History of the CIA pgs 334-5:

Having served as ambassador to Moscow and governor of New York,

W. Averell Harriman was in the middle of a long public career. In 1960,

President-elect Kennedy appointed him ambassador-at-large, to operate

“with the full confidence of the president and an intimate knowledge of

all aspects of United States policy.” By 1963, according to [Pentagon aide

William R.] Corson, Harriman was running “Vietnam without consulting

the president or the attorney general.”

The president had begun to suspect that not everyone on his national security

team was loyal. As Corson put it, “Kenny O’Donnell (JFK’s appointments

secretary) was convinced that McGeorge Bundy, the national security advisor,

was taking orders from Ambassador Averell Harriman and not the president.

He was especially worried about Michael Forrestal, a young man on the

White House staff who handled liaison on Vietnam with Harriman.”

I'd speculate the blue-blood types who pushed the Oswald-lone-nut "official story"

the afternoon of 11/22/63 had a motive to keep Kennedy in power -- they were

already getting their way with him!

To wit: W. Averell Harriman was the architect of the overthrow of Diem.

Kennedy in his own words put Harriman at the front of "those in favor of the coup,"

the overthrow of the So. Vietnamese government and murder of Ngo Dinh Diem

and his brother Ngo Dinh Nhu on 11/1-2/63.

http://www.whitehousetapes.net/clips/1963_...nam_memoir.html

From Ira Wood's JFK Timeline:

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/v2n1/chrono1.pdf

November 2, 1963.

(John Kenneth) Galbraith writes (W. Averell) Harriman, “The South Vietnam coup is another

feather in your cap. Do get me a list of all of the people who told us there was no alternative

to Diem.” A cautious Harriman tells his secretary, “File and don’t answer."

From David Talbot's Brothers, pg 217:

The Pentagon and CIA were taking secret steps to sabotage [JFK's Vietnam] troop

withdrawal plan. And even trusted advisors like Harriman, the Moscow-friendly

globe-trotting tycoon whom Kennedy thought he could rely on to broker a deal

on Vietnam, were brazenly undercutting his peace initiatives.

Harriman was conducting his own foreign policy in South East Asia. As Kennedy's

chief negotiator on the 1962 Geneva Accords he took a dovish approach and sought

total neutralization of Laos while the rest of the US foreign policy establishment

wanted to put in 60,000 US troops ("Ave's Cave" the hawks called it.)

But on Vietnam policy Harriman was a covert super-hawk.

Gareth Porter describes Harriman's machinations in detail in his great book,

The Perils of Dominance, in a section titled: The Hidden Struggle Over

Peace Diplomacy, pgs 153-64.

Debra Conway did a great presentation on this at the 2005 Lancer.

http://jfklancer.com/dallas05/ppt/conway/versions.ppt.htm

Here's a passage about Harriman's influence on SE Asia policy from an

article titled: "William Colby, the Hmong, and the CIA":

http://www.hmongnet.org/hmong-au/hmongcia.htm

(empahsis added)

American desire to adhere to the spirit of the [Laotian] Geneva Accords deemed it necessary

that the Hmong serve as a clandestine force which could harass the North Vietnamese without

being directly linked to the United States. The Hmong were prohibited from taking any offensive

actions as that could lead to an escalation in the war on the part of the North Vietnamese.

Increased fighting also had the potential to expose the American support of the Hmong and could

possibly lead to a complete annulment of the Geneva Accords. Colby - then CIA Deputy Director - was

instructed by Assistant Secretary W. Averell Harriman of the State Department to keep the effort in

Laos purely defensive in nature.

"'Okay, one hundred guns but no attacks, only for defense,' " Colby said of Harriman's orders.

Since Harriman gave orders to Lyndon Johnson, it shouldn't surprise us that

the Assistant Secretary of State gave orders to the deputy director of the CIA.

Why did Harriman personally seek a de-militarized Laos and a SVN

gov't friendly to American military ascendancy?

The former policy-- a low-level conflict in "neutral" Laos -- bucked the US foreign-policy/military

Establishment. The latter policy -- a covert sabotage of Kennedy's Vietnam peace

initiatives -- obviously bucked Kennedy.

Kernnedy wanted to get out of Vietnam. Harriman had his own agenda.

Maybe it had to do with those bright fields of Laotian opium poppy...

Anyway, its all speculations and perhaps will never be answered either way.

Got that right ...But this beats 99% of anything else discussed on the subject.

In which case it is likely that the contact man between the hit team and the blue-bloods

was none other than George H. W. Bush, who failed to get the correct details of the shooter

positions (or so I have the luxury of supposition).

Albeit a reasonable supposition. Quite.

http://www.nytimes.com/1988/07/11/us/63-fb...ml?pagewanted=1

It was Yankees vs Cowboys in Dealey Plaza.

Bad day for the Yankees, eh, Tosh?

Tosh, I need to ask you a few questions and I hope you don't get angry because we like you on this forum. But there are things I wish to clear up.

What good is an assassination abort team that arrives minutes before the motorcade?

How were you going to find the shooters? How were you going to do that in that short time?

It sounds like a "half-assed" scheme to me.

Makes perfect sense to me considering the reasonable suspicion that the

faction of the US government most likely (in my view) to have ordered

the "abort team" was the same blue-blood group who ordered the cover-up.

In which case it is likely that the contact man between the hit team and the blue-bloods

was none other than George H. W. Bush, who failed to get the correct details of the shooter

positions (or so I have the luxury of supposition).

Bush sent bad info down the chain, it was a delicate operation because the blue-bloods

didn't want to expose the plot, only abort it and keep the assassination-plots as a

contingency plan.

Or so I'd reasonably speculate...fwiw...

I don't think you had ever been in Dealey Plaza before. In what way were you going to stop Kennedy (and Connally)'s execution?

If they'd been correctly placed on the north side of Elm around the picket fence

they could have stopped the head shot and throat shot.

I don't see how anyone stops the Dal-Tex back-shot/kill-shot. That building was owned

by HL Hunt and Clint Murchison, and it wasn't searched. That had to be the best shot

in the Plaza.

Other questions: Had you ever met Lee Harvey Oswald? Do you believe there were 2 Oswalds? Did you ever meet David Ferrie? Did you ever consider the possibility that you were flying the assassins themselves, with only minutes to spare? Something's not right. I hope you will answer these questions. I don't mean them in a mean-spirited way. I'm just not following your logic.

Kathy C

Tosh's account makes perfect sense to me, fwiw.

Please consider the attempts made to prevent JFK from going to Dallas. There was the

FBI teletype warning of "a revolutionary group" plotting to assassinate JFK in Dallas. There

had been plots scuttled or avoided in Chicago, Miami and Tampa in the weeks preceding

Dallas.

But most telling is this:

"We were getting all sorts of rumors that the President was going to be assassinated

in Dallas; there were no if's, and's, or but's about it."

That's a quote from Marty Underwood, interviewed by Vince Palamara.

Marty Underwood was the Democratic National Committee advance man in

Houston for Kennedy's trip to Texas.

Isn't it an interesting co-incidence that the town where rumors of Kennedy's

certain demise were the thickest is the same town where the local Republican

Party was run by none other than George H. W. Bush?

One view point might be a back throat shot

JFK was first struck in the throat circa Z190 and seized up paralyzed

by circa Z230.

He was looking hard to the right at Z190:

I plump for 3 head shots incl south-knoll/grassy knoll/west-TSBD6thfl... fwiw...

Excellent, Steve. But I feel the Assassination was helped the most not by tricky gadgets but by the limo stop. And they got him.

Kathleen C

The "tricky gadget" leads us to a Person of Interest.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKwerbell.htm

I do not dispute the "soluble bullet" or "paralytic bullet" theories.

It's a bit more than a "theory," Jack. It was the preliminary conclusion

of the autopsists the night of the autopsy, before the cover-up completely

swept them up.

This preliminary conclusion by the prosectors is a matter of historical record.

From autopsy-attendee FBI SA Francis O'Neill's sworn affidavit for the HSCA:

(quote on)

Some discussion did occur concerning the disintegration of the bullet. A general

feeling existed that a soft-nosed bullet struck JFK. There was discussion concerning

the back wound that the bullet could have been a "plastic" type or an "Ice" [sic]

bullet, one which dissolves after contact.

(quote off)

From autopsy-attendee FBI SA James Sibert's sworn affidavit for the HSCA:

(quote on)

The doctors also discussed a possible deflection of the bullet in the body caused

by striking bone. Consideration was also given to a type of bullet which fragments

completely....Following discussion among the doctors relating to the back injury, I

left the autopsy room to call the FBI Laboratory and spoke with Agent Chuch [sic]

Killion. I asked if he could furnish any information regarding a type of bullet that

would almost completely fragmentize (sic).

(quote off)

This is not some pet theory spun off from the over-active imagination

of certain critics.

However, I do not believe there was a real Blackdogman.

Jack

What you, I, or anyone else for that matter believe about the assassination

is irrelevant.

Rosemary Willis described Black Dog Man as a "conspicuous" person who

happened to "disappear the next instant."

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol12_0006a.htm

The HSCA analysis of Willis 5 identified a "very distinct straight-line feature" near the region

of BDM's hands.

The Z-film establishes Rosemary Willis' rapid head-snap (thank you Don Roberdeau!)

Z214-217.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=2394

This is all consistent with the testimony of Nellie Connally, Clint Hill, and Linda Willis

regarding JFK "grasping" or "clutching" his throat after the first strike, which of course

is consistent with what we see of JFK in the Z-film during that

time frame.

The neck x-ray shows a bruised lung tip, a hairline fracture of the right T1 transverse

process, and an air pocket. No exit, no bullet.

The Z-film shows JFK seizing up paralyzed in roughly two seconds, consistent with

known CIA testing.

You can believe what you want, Jack. The JFK assassination is a false mystery.

I have just reread A Deeper, Darker Truth by Donald Phillips which presents the work of Photonic expert Tom Wilson. In one chapter, Tom analysed an enlargement of Atlgens photograph #5. Tom Wilson's conclusion of the Dal-Tex second floor open window shows a man with a beard looking with his left eye through a device described as follows:

I believe it was an enlargement of Altgens 6 Wilson analyzed.

This is Altgens 5:

Altgens 6:

Altgens 6 corresponds to Z255. It's interesting that the shooter was still looking

through the device.

He hasn't fired yet, or fired in that instant.

Thank you, Jack. I have been able to find the phone number of the co-inventor , the CEO of Jet Energy, Inc and thought I might try call to learn of the devices history. Not sure he'll say much, but it worth a try.

Regards,

Steve

Interesting, and not the first time I've heard of bullets make of ice in Dallas - or of frozen mercury. The only minor problem is the date of the patent filing being 2001, but it could well have been used by the intelligence agencies or military prior and only recently filed for public patent. That you'd need to find out - if one can. I do, nonetheless, think it a very interesting find! Also, check for earlier similar patents.

This is not new, Peter. Hardly.

http://karws.gso.uri.edu/Marsh/New_Scans/flechette.txt

In 1975 the CIA performed a limited modified hang-out of this technology.

Most critics either laugh this off or use it to hang Louis Witt for treason and murder.

Rosemary Willis, along with the Willis 5 photo, indicts Black Dog Man as the first strike

(throat wound) shooter.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol12_0006a.htm

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=2394

Terrific work, Steve!

Humes, Boswell and Finck got it right the night of the autopsy: JFK was hit with

blood soluble rounds.

The Dal-Tex shot was the second shot. The first shot was from Black Dog Man

circa Z190 striking JFK in the throat with a paralytic.

The second shot was the kill shot, a toxin. They weren't aiming for JFK's head -- they

were aiming for his heart, missing a few inches to the right.

Close enough for government work.

If I had Stone's talent and opportunity, I'd have made "JFK" about Vincent Salandria,

not Garrison.

No one has penetrated to the core of the case with more clarity than the lawyer from Philly.

Cliff makes a very strong point. The original assassins shooting from the front and the back and setting up Oswald as the Cuban-Commie Patsy were over ruled and at some point - early in the proceedings - it was decided to go with the single assassin - Oswald the Lone-Nut scenario and force feed that down our throats, regardless of what the real evidence indicated.

At what point was that decision made and who made it?

I'd bet the farm on Harriman.

As soon as Oswald was arrested, Harriman (Skull and Bones 1913) pulled the plug on

the commies-did-it scenario and ordered Bundy (Skull and Bones 1940) to inform LBJ

of the "official" decision. Or so I'd reasonably speculate.

Who else had the power to curtail suspicions of Russian complicity, and make the

"lone assassin" myth stick?

A MESSAGE FROM DOUG HORNE ABOUT HIS FORTHCOMING BOOK

I’m pleased to report that my book about the medical coverup in the Kennedy assassination, Inside the ARRB, is finally completed, and will be published in the near future, hopefully in December of 2009.

The only real certainty we are left with about the events in Dallas in 1963 is that there was a massive coverup, and that the two official explanations about what happened --- offered up by the Warren Commission and the HSCA --- cannot be true. So much physical evidence was destroyed, and so much tainted evidence was introduced into the official record, that I am convinced the reason the evidence in the Kennedy assassination “doesn’t come together” like a normal homicide case is because there is fraud in the evidence.

Hasn't this fraud been readily identified well before the ARRB?

It's been obvious since the late 70's that there are two kinds of medical evidence

in the JFK assassination: 1) medical evidence prepared according to proper military

autopsy protocol; and 2) medical evidence NOT prepared according to proper military

autopsy protocol.

Why not throw out the autopsy photos, the head x-rays, and the final autopsy

report -- none of which was prepared according to proper autopsy protocol -- and

deal with what's left?

The properly prepared evidence relating to the back and throat wounds is consistent

with physical evidence (JFK's clothing), the witnesses in Dealey Plaza/Parkland/Bethesda,

and the Dealey photographic evidence.

Throw out anything related to the head wound(s) and the case becomes

clear as any homicide in history, imo.

To continue to assume that all of the evidence held by the U.S. government is sacrosanct, and should be accepted at face value, will only guarantee that there will never be a consensus about what happened. Much of the evidence processed by the Federal government is suspect, and tainted.

If the tainted evidence can be identified, and separated from the more trustworthy evidence, we stand a much better chance of understanding the nature of both the murder, and more importantly, the coverup. The coverup tells us more about the assassination than endless arguments about how many shooters there were, or where they were located in Dealey Plaza.

The official cover-up tells us nothing about the assassination, which was

clearly designed to appear as a Castro conspiracy.

In order to bolster his argument for super-duper-massive evidence fraud Horne

mistakenly assumes the official cover-up was planned, rather than improvised.

I felt compelled to attempt to unravel the mystery surrounding the medical evidence by taking a serious look at how much evidence was destroyed in 1963, and which evidence in the official record is likely tainted, and cannot be trusted (and why). It was no easy task; but neither was it an impossible endeavor.

The FBI autopsy report -- a properly prepared investigative document -- records

Humes observation of pre-autopsy surgery to the head. This observation renders

"tainted" every piece of evidence regarding the head wounds, a conclusion bolstered

by Horne's own work on the "two brains."

The HSCA concluded that the autopsy photos were not properly prepared, and the

ARRB established that there was no chain of possession of these photos.

The final autopsy report locates the back wound improperly.

Throw all that out -- what's the big deal?

What's left? Burkley's death certificate, the contemporaneous notes of the

Parkland doctors, the autopsy face sheet, the neck x-ray, the FBI autopsy

report, FBI SAs O'Neill and Sibert's sworn affidavits to the HSCA.

JFK sustained wounds to the throat and back between Z186 and Z255. The throat wound

reaction described by witnesses with clear views of JFK (Nellie Connally, Clint Hill, Linda Willis)

have him "grasping" or "clutching" his thoat, which is exactly what we see in the Z-film.

In his zeal to prove fraud in the Zapruder film Doug Horne ignores the obvious

conclusions readily drawn from this "data base" of reliable evidence.

Additionally, I closely examined the statements and testimony of key Parkland hospital and Bethesda autopsy witnesses over the years to see who had been consistent in describing events, and who had changed his testimony as time passed. I acted as a very curious citizen-detective, and made no starting assumptions about the presumed authenticity of any particular item of evidence.

What one believes about JFK’s assassination depends upon which data base one relies upon; there is so much conflicted evidence that one can “cherry pick” the evidence in the official record and come to almost any conclusion about the facts of the shooting. I attempted to examine the broad range of virtually all of the medical evidence, and tried very hard to avoid the limited and selective use of evidence, a mistake made by both the Warren Commission and the HSCA.

My conclusions are that neither the autopsy report (a document rewritten at least twice), nor the autopsy photographs and x-rays (which present dishonest and intentionally misleading images of the head wounds), can be relied upon to determine the reality of the event in Dealey Plaza, and that the original observations of the treating physicians and nurses at Parkland hospital remain the best single guide to the actual wounds sustained by President Kennedy --- but that they still must be judiciously married to certain other key facts, to ascertain what likely happened.

Once one accepts that JFK was killed by a crossfire, the focus shifts to the who and the why, and my book attempts to deal with this subject as well, for the assassination can only be understood in terms of the context in which it took place: at the height of the Cold War between the U.S. and the Soviet Union.

The assassination can only be understood in terms of the context in which it took place:

a false flag attack designed to implicate Castro and ignite a US invasion of Cuba. The

official cover-up was not designed by the killers themselves, although it certainly

involved accessories before and after the fact.

As a subscriber to unknowncountry.com, I listened to the second interview of Doug Horne, which was conducted by Whitley Strieber. It was riveting. Horne added new information to that he had disclosed in Jim Marr’s interview of him. He made the following assertions:

1) Vice President Lyndon Johnson and FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover had foreknowledge of JFK’s assassination. He termed them “necessary enablers.” Their task was to oversee the cover-up following the murder in Dallas. The cover-up began within minutes of JFK’s death.

Which cover-up?

There were two cover-ups pushed hard the afternoon of 11/22 -- Oswald as a lone

nut, and Oswald as an agent of Fidel Castro.

The cover-up LBJ and Hoover were initially tasked to "oversee" was not the

cover-up that prevailed.

Around 4 pm 11/22 Hoover tried to push the Oswald-connected-to-Cuba angle with

Bobby Kennedy and got no where (see David Talbot's Brothers pg 10.)

CIA-connected gangsters Richard Cain, Frank Sturgis, John Martino and others

immediately began to push the Oswald-as-Castro-agent line on 11/22 (see

Larry Hancock's Someone Would Have Talked, pg 13).

Dallas assistant DA William Alexander initially charged Oswald with murder "in furtherance

of an international communist conspiracy [to] assassinate President John F. Kennedy."

Someone Would Have Talked pg 401:

At 1:15 PM on November 22, when the President was known to be dead, [LBJ press aide]

Malcolm Kilduff approached Johnson about making a statement. Johnson's response was:

"No. Wait. We don't know whether it's a communist conspiracy or not."

But while LBJ was still on Air Force One on the return flight from Dallas, McGeorge Bundy

informed the new President that the lone assassin was in custody (see Vincent Salandria's

"The Tale Told By Two Tapes" http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=4186 ).

The Commies-didn't-do-it line was enforced by blueblood capo di tutti capi W. Averell Harriman,

who barely gave LBJ time to take off his coat at the White House before barging in and telling

the new President what's what:

Max Holland's The Assassination Tapes, pg 57:

At 6:55 p.m. Johnson has a ten minute meeting with Senator J. William Fulbright

and diplomat W. Averell Harriman to discuss possible foreign involvement in the

assassination, especially in light of the two-and-a-half-year sojourn of Lee Harvey

Oswald [in Russia]...Harriman, a U.S. ambassador to Moscow during WWII, is an

experienced interpreter of Soviet machinations and offers the president the

unanimous view of the U.S. government's top Kremlinologists. None of them

believe the Soviets have a hand in the assassination, despite the Oswald association.

Like David Lifton, Doug Horne seems to think that the killers of JFK plotted

the crime in such a manner as to set Oswald up as a lone assassin.

The historical record indicates something else -- that Oswald was set up as

an agent of Castro, and thus the crime was designed to appear as a

conspiracy.

SWHT pg. 311-12:

Among the difficulties in understanding the Kennedy conspiracy, perhaps

the most challenging is reconciling the many elements that appear to be

contradictory. This has been made even more difficult for those who have

viewed the "cover-up" as an extension of the conspiracy. That difficulty

disappears if we first view the conspiracy to frame Oswald as a Castro (or

both Cuban and Soviet associated) conspirator, a plan that became totally

unraveled when Oswald was taken into custody. And second, we see that

the so-called "cover-up" was an independent, largely unplanned and highly

reactive effort to ensure that a Lee Harvey Oswald would [take] the fall all

by himself -- as a lone nut.

* The plot was to show the US President being killed by a Castro sponsored

conspiracy.

* The plotters were unable to execute their full plan due to Oswald's capture.

* Due to Oswald's role as an intelligence dangle and his contact with Kostikov,

the initial appearance was still that Oswald might have been acting as a

Communist dupe.

* Both the FBI and the CIA were aware of the Kostikov implications; when,

how, and if they shared this information with the new President is unclear.

* Lyndon Johnson personally led the official cover-up to eliminate any

public suggestion of conspiracy while leveraging confidential information

and the threat of war to make the cover-up work.

* The "lone nut" was a creation of the official cover-up, not of the Kennedy

plot.

* The plotters follow-on efforts to maintain conspiracy were overwhelmed

by Johnson.

Very few researchers seem interested in doing photoanalysis.

I have just been considering comparing Z 204 and Willis 5 (same moment).

There are some interesting observations to be made.

But I am about to go to bed and will be gone much of tomorrow. Someone

may want to see whether they have any observations.

Jack

As others pointed out, your argument runs in circles.

And what about the mote in your eye, Tink?

You have speculated for decades that the throat wound was caused

by a skull fragment exiting from the head shot.

Such an off-base assertion might lead one to conclude that there are

parts of the Zapruder film Josiah Thompson hasn't watched.

I have just been considering comparing Z 204 and Willis 5 (same moment).

There are some interesting observations to be made.

Not to nit-pick, but it has been long generally agreed that Willis 5 matches Z202.

In my opinion the two most important photo analyses involve the Zapruder film.

Gil Jesus' "Was JFK Trying to Cough Up a Bullet?"

Don Roberdeau's "Rosemary Willis Headsnap"

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=2394

Both of these analyses concentrate on the time of the first shot, the throat shot.

There is a 4 second sequence from Z186 to Z255 during which there is perfect

agreement between the Z-film and:

1) other Dealey Plaza photos -- Betzner 3 (Z186), Willis 5 (Z202), Altgens 6 (Z255)

2) the statements of the witnesses with the best view of JFK -- Nellie Connally,

Jackie Kennedy, Rosemary Willis, Linda Willis and Clint Hill.

3) the contemporaneous notes by Parkland doctors describing the throat

wound as an entrance.

4) the neck x-ray shows damage consistent with a small round fired

from the front, causing JFK's visible traumatic response.

5) the historical fact that the Central Intelligence Agency tested blood

soluble paralytics and toxins designed to "dissolve after contact" with the

blood stream. The CIA tested paralytics on humans and dogs designed

to incapacitate the target in two seconds.

http://karws.gso.uri.edu/Marsh/New_Scans/flechette.txt

The Zapruder film shows JFk seizing up paralyzed in about two seconds.

Rosemary Willis' statements are consistent with what is seen in the Zapruder.

She described Black Dog Man as a "conspicuous" person who seemed to

"disappear the next instant." Thanks to Don's analysis, we can pinpoint that

"instant" as Z214.

The HSCA analyzed Willis 5 and concluded that Black Dog Man was a human

with a "distinct straight-line feature" in the region of the hands.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol12_0006a.htm

At Bethesda the autopsists shared a "general feeling" that JFK had been

struck by rounds that "dissolve after contact."

From autopsy-attendee FBI SA Francis O'Neill's sworn affidavit:

(quote on)

Some discussion did occur concerning the disintegration of the bullet. A general

feeling existed that a soft-nosed bullet struck JFK. There was discussion concerning

the back wound that the bullet could have been a "plastic" type or an "Ice" [sic]

bullet, one which dissolves after contact.

(quote off)

From autopsy-attendee FBI SA James Sibert's sworn affidavit:

(quote on)

The doctors also discussed a possible deflection of the bullet in the body caused

by striking bone. Consideration was also given to a type of bullet which fragments

completely....Following discussion among the doctors relating to the back injury, I

left the autopsy room to call the FBI Laboratory and spoke with Agent Chuch [sic]

Killion. I asked if he could furnish any information regarding a type of bullet that

would almost completely fragmentize (sic).

(quote off)

Had the autopsist's hunch about blood soluble rounds been followed up

by the FBI, assassination-weapons-maker-extrodinaire Mitchell WerBell 3

and a handful of others would have been interrogated Saturday morning,

or so I'd reasonably speculate.

WerBell was an associateof such men as David Atlee Phillips, Richard Cain,

Frank Sturgis and John Martino -- all of whom were active in the attempt to

tie Oswald to Castro immediately after the assassination.

And thus Z186 thru Z255 offers a Moment of Clarity in the JFK assassination

evidence -- it is, indeed, the bedrock evidence in the case.

That and the throat entrance wound which Tink Thompson and his cohort deny.

I don't see any difference between those who wage jihad against

the film evidence and those who wage jihad against the witnesses,

as both obfuscate the obvious case against individuals connected to

the Central Intelligence Agency.

So there's no evidence that supports the single bullet theory?

* JFK and Connally reacting simultaneously to being shot.

A well debunked fairy tale. Connally denied it and the Zap shows

JFK reacting to the first shot well before Connally was hit.

I found it hilarious when your hero Dale Myers showed JFK leisurely

reaching for his throat BEFORE he was struck!

* JFK and Connally aligned perfectly to receive the wounds they did from a single bullet.

Not with a back wound at T3. Not with a entrance wound in the throat.

What was it about JFK's wounds that made everyone who saw them unable to see

accurately, Paul?

* The line of the bullet goes straight back to Oswald on the sixth floor of the TSBD.

Pure circular logic.

* No evidence of any other person shooting in Dealey Plaza (most people said they heard three shots. Not eight, or nine, or ten).

Factually incorrect. The HSCA studied Betzner #3 and Willis #5 and determined

that Black Dog Man was a human with a "very distinct straight-line feature" in the

"region of his hands." Rosemary Willis described this individual as a "conspicuous"

person who seemed to "disappear the next instant" right after JFK was struck in the

throat.

There are a few pointers. It's all rather obvious, really.

Indeed.

- Believe the single bullet theory is possible - No, I think it is probable.

There's no evidence to substantiate this claim, so why keep making it?

Read the Warren Report.

That's like saying -- "Read the Bible."

You're either a believer in fairy tales, or you aren't.