Michael G. Smith

Lighten up; we don't have to be serious all the time!I agree regarding the "accusations" made against West and Piper; they're totally indefensible and unsupportable beyond my analogy that if they can't prove they were in New Hampshire, then they must've been in California. My original question stands unanswered: My primary curiosity here is to determine what, if any, results came about from the dusting of the Dr Pepper bottle that Bonnie Ray Williams left on the sixth floor. The bottle along with other "remains of the chicken lunch" were removed from the 6th floor on the afternoon of November 22, 1963; I'm not personally aware of the disposition of those items of evidence; can anyone elucidate them? Does anybody know the answer? I have a great sense of humor, and joke around most of the time. But when it comes to these types of things, I dont have a choice but to be serious. To be honest, Ive looked at this subject at length before, and with others. My point wasnt about the post, but about your content of replies concerning these men. If you wont address that, and move right along continuing your posts, like it doesnt matter, fine. My opinion was made concerning what was posted about these men, and that is what matters to me. Im sure, as I stated earlier, that Im speaking for others also. Im sure your original question will remain unanswered. -MS

Are you kidding? You mean - you're saying - you're trying to tell me that Bonnie Ray's nickname of "Insinkerator" - pulverizing chicken bones - is - isn't - you mean - it's not - it's not true?!?Oh ... My ... Gawd. This sheds a whole new light on things, doesn't it. To imagine someone put whole chicken legs onto a couple of slices of bread - or peeled the meat off the bones before making a sandwich of it ... and here all this time, I'd thought the man was someone who bit soda bottles open (after all, no evidence of a church key, right?). I'm devastated. Deflated. Derailed. Deranged. Debunked. But mostly just deranged .... Where's that emoticon with the balloon flying around at when ya need it most? This post started out to be something of value, and a subject that had been debated and discussed over the years many times. The chicken bones, bag lunch, the location of certain people in the building at the time prior to the shooting, after the shooting, and many other questions related to the events that day. This subject needed to be addressed concerning that part of the evidence found at the scene. But I have to say, where this post has gone, up to this point, has dropped to a new low. Certain things said in the past two replies here, certainly add nothing to the content of the subject at hand. They tend to do nothing but shine an "unjust" light on these employees being discussed here, and these men certainly do not deserve that, let alone the offending of others, including myself here on the Forum. Taking this post to this level is totally uncalled for, and certainly unprofessional. Im sure I can speak for others, and am not alone with this opinion concerning these last few replies. -MS

The whole Bethesda autopsy scenerio reeks of questions. The one presented here begs for answers. Another one that that needs to be addressed is that of Lt. Cmdr. William Bruce Pitzer, whose mysterious death on Oct. 29, 1966, has never been investigated. From what I gather, Mr. Pitzer photographed most of the autopsy while it was being conducted and ongoing. Performing this autopsy was Dr. James J. Humes, and Dr. J. Thornton Boswell, both U. S. Naval Officers who conducted the autopsy on the evening of Nov. 22nd 1963. I may be wrong, but as far as I know, no one has been able to to interview these men concerning specific details of this autopsy under threat of court martial by the U.S. Navy, and other intimidating agencys. This serious unresolved mystery into Lt. Pitzers mysterious death that has gone unresolved for so many years, needs to be addressed. Why have no answers been giving concerning the autopsy on John F. Kennedy? To make matters worse, why have no answers been given into the death of Lt. Cmdr. Pitzer? His family to this point still has no closure into his horrific death of their husband and family man to this day. There are many other Doctors who have not been mentioned here, but they are all involved in the cover up into not only the falsifying of the bodies and autopsies at Bethesda, but also the cover up in the murder of Lt. Cmdr. William Bruce Pitzer. JMO FWIW -MS

Thanks to all for these posts. I cant help but go back to when it was first known what Mr. Ford was doing behind everyones back. Here is a man who was selected to become part of an "unempeachable" group of select, impartial men who would get to the "bottom" of what truly happened from Nov. 22nd 63' onward, and before. How could a man of his stature, turn around and pass on sworn testimony to others who had no business of knowing what was transpiring behind closed doors? Can we say two-faced xxxx? How about traitor? Or even multiple organizational political conspirator? In my opinion, all these terms seem to fit this so called highly regarded elected political leader of our times. Did these goings on help push him up the political ladder later on in his carreer? It surely didnt hurt his career, knowing that he could be trusted by other like minded corrupt political allies later on in his career after reaching the position of Presidency. Not to mention how he even got into that position! Just look at his ties, and the pardon of RMN. We could continue with another post just on that subject alone. When you look at the farce of the WC, it is a shame that there were not more men, in my opinion, like Rep. Hale Boggs, and Sen. Richard Russell, who finally, after most of the facts were in, realized what a joke the Commission was, and actually spoke out concerning their suspicions. When requesting their views be noted, they were left out suspiciously, to say the least. No matter what commissions are formed {911?} and others, are only as good as the people choosing the respected members. Do you think they are just chosen at random? Or are they chosen to be closely tied to be what the outcome is to be desired? I would say the later. People who will stoop at nothing to make sure the outcome is what is desired from the very beginning. This continuing program of having commissions to solve all problems when serious problems arise is nothing more than a glorified WC, only in modern times. Needless to say, there will always be a Gerald Ford in place, along with all of the other "Holy Unimpeachables, to do the dirty work that was done in 63' Just my opinion. FWIW -MS

Thanks all for your input. Seems most are on the same page, and it is such a shame to have his death just become another forgotten milepost. Well, with all of our help we can keep this a part of our heritage, and not something to be forgotten about like so many other historical events that have shaped and formed our country. Im curious to see what next years 45th anniversary brings about. I am sure it should, I say it should, bring a better responce on our media mogols, but only time will tell. Thanks again, and keep on keeping on. MS

Is it me, or is everyone else seeing what im seeing? Every year it seems there is less and less coverage of the anniversary of our Presidents death. Is it because there are not enough people interested in this subject? I personally dont think so. I remember years ago, this date couldnt go by without several programs on all day, reliving those trajic events in 63', for not just those who were around then, but for our younger generation to learn more about their history. Could it be the government doesnt want these programs shown? Very possible. Look what they did with "The Men WHo Killed Kennedey". Gone, and not to be seen again, due to the fact of pressure from "certain" families. Talk about influence! I looked through the guide today, and I believe there is one short show on JFK on the "Discovery" channel tonight. Thats it. Channel 12 [PBS] had an hour program the other night about how the assassination was covered by the media during those 3-4 days. Other than that, nada, zip. Remeber several years ago.....TMWKK was shown every night for like 1-2 hours every night all week! Now those of you abroad, may be getting a whole lot more than we are. It wouldnt surprise me one bit, as it seems other countries seem to have more respect, and honor for our slain President than our own country does. Is this supposed to fade into oblivion? The anniversary has fallen on Thanksgiving this year, when families will be flocked around the televisions most of the day and night. What better exposure could you ask for. I love football, but I would surely change the channel to watch a program on JFK on his anniversary. [regardless of the concerns of my guests wanting the football!] What better exposure could the broadcasting stations ask for, or are they not concerned anymore. Do they consider it "done to death"? Personally I beleive that this subject needs to be kept alive, and in the forefronts of our minds for many years to come. Especially for our younger generations. I think you would be hard pressed to even find an article in the press concerning this day either. I hope that things get better, before they get worse. JMO thanks--MS

Oops. On seconds thoughts (and second look), I think you're right, Robin. Maybe the guy got the country of manufacture of the rifle right, too? Good find Lee. Looks like another person next to the [cop?] in the next east window, and one or two below on the far east 3rd floor window also. I agree, not worth a whole lot as far as any "evidence". It could have been taken at any time after the assassination. Could be it was taken after the 6th floor search, and they were checking the whole building over for more evidence. Im sure alot of people were taking photos after the fact that day, of the building, and other locations in DP. Deffinately not worth the asking price for sure, in my opinion. MS

John, Indeed. Foreman also represented Peter Lazaros, George Parr, Dr. Harold Eidenoff and Melvin Lane Powers in their high profile cases. By the time he repped Ruby, it was claimed that Foreman had been involved with the defense of some 700 murder cases. His relationship to the Hunt family was a most curious one. During the mid 1970's, Foreman found himself mixed up and charged in this bribery/wire-tapping case with the Hunt brothers. The Hunt's were very vocal at the time saying they were being hounded by the Justice Department because they refused to allow the CIA to operate within their business. As a curiosity, Foreman was jailed briefly in 1974 on a drunken driving charge. James Great photo James. Your right about the bushes. The worst parts is, from what I understand is that the very next morning, they had people out there clearing out all of the bushes. They cleaned the area of any evidence, so as not to have anything to go on if anybody came forward to say he was shot from those bushes.The Memphis Sanitation Dept. was supposedly ordered by the Memphis PD inspector to clear the area behind Jims Grill. Within hours, the crime scene was completely sanitized by orders of the police. You can find a very good account of this in "The Assassinations" by the authors of Probe Magazine. Very good book covering the assassinations of Malcom X, RFK, MLK, and JFK.

Tim, I've met and talked to Brownlow on two separate occasions. I include him as a witness on my witness list at patspeer.com. He told me the same story each time. He was with his grandma in front of the Dal Tex. He heard four shots. He had NO IDEA where they came from, but, seeing people run towards the knoll, ASSUMED the shots came from the knoll. He stands on the knoll with Groden, selling his videos. Brownlow has interviewed many of the Dallas citizens on the periphery of the assassination, and sells videos of his interviews.. In my opinion he is very knowledgeable. I am totally surprised by the allegation he claims to have seen a shooter, and doubt he said anything so wild. Both times I spoke to him, a year apart, he mentioned that he personally liked Jean Hill and Beverly Oliver, but had extreme doubts they'd seen any shooters on the knoll. I, like others have met and talked to Mr. Brownlow at the pergolas end, where the steps start. He and Robert Groden set up several times a week selling Grodens books, and such, and swapping assassination stories. I talked to him several times, and he never mentioned seeing anything. All he had to ad was that he was there with his family. I dont know how old he is, but he cant be much older than me, so he couldnt have been that old. I was in the 3rd grade when the assassination took place. I dont think anyone that age would be that alert to notice these things and recall these events so clearly after all these years. Im not saying he didnt, but I find it hard to believe, as I cant recall much about anything about 3rd grade, let alone yesterday. I can believe that he heard what his family talked about for years, and has elaborated it to the point it has become today. [if he is saying what you say hes saying] No offense to Mike intended, as he seemed like a very nice guy. He is just working alongside of Bob Groden trying to inform people who come to the plaza. I have his # and mailing address. If you want it, contact me through the message board. thanks-smitty

The report is in the 26 Volumes, which means that it does exist. Not having a set of the 26 volumes does not constitute the report not existing. And as I recall - the only difference I am seeing is that Weitzman asked the guy where did he see this "toss" take place and the guy had told him that it was over near the steam pipe. Bill Miller I have read most of Mr. Hoffmans testimony, and I have seen his interview for the film "The men who killed Kennedy". Which basically confirms his story that he saw someone shooting from the fence, turn and toss the "rifle" to the suppossed railroad man, who inturn took it to a switchbox, disassemble it and put it in a bag. then calmly walk away. Problem I have is that the switchbox in question is in full view of the group of r/r workers, pedestrians, and policeman standing on the overpass. By the time shots were fired, these people were on their way around the fence to see what had happened, as they were sure that shots had been fired from there. I dont believe there could have been time to pass it, disassemble the rifle, and not be seen by those people on the overpass, without being questioned or detained by the policemen. That has always been the glitch in the story for me. I have been there and seen for myself. At the time I believe he did have a clear look into the parking lot, before overgrown trees and the suppossed raised billboad. But for someone to take the gun away, and take it apart, and put it in a r/r bag, had to be done further away, or behind other cover than a switch box. Those switch boxes do not give you enough area to hide behind, not to be seen by those converging on the parking lot, as it is straight on the way to the lot. Just my popinion, FWIW-smitty

I don't know if this answers your question, but I'll have a bash at it: For some reason, the research community is often very polarized about Garrison. To some, he is a hero who, whatever shortcomings he may have had, had the guts to expose the conspiracy. To those people, any criticism of Garrison or his case elicits anger. To others, Garrison was a bad or confused person who mounted an ill-conceived prosecution and brought our community to disrespect. To those people, any praise of Garrison or his case elicits anger. Both sides seem incapable of discussing the case without resorting to sarcasm and/or accusations. And then! To some of us who know a little more than most regarding the political structure of New Orleans, LA, Garrison was a purely political entity who, completely unknowning to himself, was, not unlike many multiple assassin chasers, led down the merry ole rabbit hole and created a lot of diversionary smoke without really knowing exactly who it was that was either lit or was fueling the fire. Rest assured, someone extremely "close to home" blew smoke up Big Jim's derriere and convinced him that he was in fact "On the Trail of the Assassin" and that he would no doubt be the first true American Hero to solve this little puzzle. Plus the fact that he was not above making a buck or two off it with his "Garrison Intelligence Agency" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Garrison On March 1, 1967, Garrison had businessman Clay Shaw arrested, charging him with being part of a conspiracy in the John F. Kennedy assassination http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_of_Clay_Shaw On January 29, 1969, Clay Shaw was brought to trial on these charges ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: "GARRISON-INTELLIGENCE-AGENCY" (INCORPORATED) File Date: 12/01/1967 Registered Agent (Appointed 12/01/1967): HON. JIM GARRISON, 4600 OWENS DR., NEW ORLEANS, LA 70122 Registered Agent (Appointed 12/01/1967): HON. THOMAS J. BAUMLER, JR., 611 ESPLANADE AVE., NEW ORLEANS, LA 70116 Registered Agent (Appointed 12/01/1967): J. S. MARTIN, 1836 ESPLANADE AVE., NEW ORLEANS, LA 70116 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_of_Clay_Shaw Jack Martin — came forward the day after the assassination with a variety of tales about Dave Ferrie, such as the claim that Ferrie "may have hypnotized Oswald and planted a post-hypnotic suggestion that he kill the President." Martin, born Edward Stewart Suggs, was a diagnosed sociopath and admitted alcoholic with a rap sheet and a history of furnishing false information to the authorities, and he nursed a burning grudge against former pal Dave Ferrie. [13] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So, one can assume quite correctly that Jack Martin/aka J.S. Martin/aka Edward S. Suggs, managed to secure employment for himself for a couple of years with this. Name: TELL ENTERPRISES, INCORPORATED, WILLIAM Type Entity: Business Corporation Status: Not Active (Action by Secretary of State) 2006 Annual Report/Reinstatement form is required in order to reinstate Print Annual Report/Reinstatement Form For Filing Mailing Address: 540 CAMP ST, NEW ORLEANS, LA 70130 Domicile Address: 540 CAMP ST, NEW ORLEANS, LA 70130 File Date: 09/15/1961 Registered Agent (Appointed 12/01/1967): J. S. MARTIN, 1836 1/2 ESPLANADE A, NEW ORLEANS, LA 70116 Registered Agent (Appointed 12/01/1967): FLOSSIE L. CARTER, 112U EIGHTH ST, NEW ORLEANS, LA 70123 I loved the film aslo, but was stretched in areas. I recently got a copy of the "directors cut" version of JFK. This version goes into alot of areas, and explains alot of things that arent in the "released version" seen in theaters. Anyone who appreciates the film, needs to watch the "directors cut" version, to really appreciate what wasnt shown. One thing great about the film was that it renewed alot of interest in the case, back in '91, and got alot of people looking into the case that never had, and I believe that more was uncovered because of this. As I said, I beleive it was "stretched in areas", and there was alot in the movie which was incorrect. Another point is that Garrison never looked at Carlos Marcello, or took any significant interest in him. Anyone looking into the case, cannot overlook the fact of Marcellos involvement, not just in the case, but in the dealings in New "Awlens". Not much was ever done in or around N.O. in the underworld, without going through Marcello. To overlook his involvement, is very suspicious indeed. For Garrison to avoid him the way he did, as far as his case went, stinks of another conspiracy in my opinion. Just my opinion FWIW.-smitty

Very fitting act for the sh--head. Cheers for that bird where ever he is.

This is a perfect example as to why we were never able to get the remaining fragments out of Connally. Back then it was because there was too many fragments left in Connally to account for on the "magic" bullet. They were never going to let anyone get those fragments, as it would have blown the single shooter theory out of the water. Now if we had those fragments [from Connally] you would really have something to work with. I wouldnt be surprised to hear that after all these years, they "lost" the remaining fragments. Lol [i suppose they would have doctored all of the fragments by now to match] Just my opinion FWIW-smitty

It was my understanding that the white caps belonged to officers in the Traffic Division. The difference I see in the picture below is the color of the bill - white vs black. Perhaps the black bill was used by sergeants and above, or maybe had something to do with Love Field security. Steve Thomas [/quote FWIW-My thoughts have been [through visuals and such] most police depts. of that era used white hats. Using differnet colored bills were used, I suppose for divisions as mentioned. But from what I have noticed, airline pilots, state troppers, and military, seemed to use solid matching colored hats. The white hats, as mentioned, were used by local police depts, county depts, etc...... of that era. when this changed, I dont know. Just my opinion, FWIW -smitty

FWIW. I posted this photo on my blog and received these comments: Anonymous said... Russell McLarry is my uncle and he is NOT in this picture. 10:55 AM gary said... Anonymous, what can you tell us about your uncle? 11:49 AM Teresa Ravella said... My Uncle Russell was a very outspoken man with a great sense of humor. He was also a wonderful machinist as well. And he made the best barbecue in Texas! He always said, "If you've got a good rub, no sauce needed." I miss him very much...he passed away in Nov. 2002. As far as him being in Canada with Oswald, you've got be kidding. I don't think he ever ventured out of the U.S. (but I'll check with my Mom on that). My opinion, the guy in the picture is not Oswald. I know you cant see much, but what you can see, tells me no. Either its suppose to be someone else and they have it backwards, or its the 20th imposter. lol. FWIW

James, He said nothing in his letters about gun running, but I'm close to finding a concrete link. I can definitely link him with several of the main players in those operations. I'm trying to secure arrest records for him in Florida, which should prove interesting. I firmly believe that he was involved in the gun running. Given the close circle that he ran in it is very unlikely that he was not involved. In two one weeks free time from college work I was able to find a mountain of material on Harrelson that has not yet been written about in any coherrent form. All I need now is to get funding to do this stuff. I wouldn't know if publishers would have an interest in this sort of stuff. John Thanks to all who posted. There had to be a post concerning Harrelson today, and Im glad I wasnt let down. Only through his kindness, and dedication to JFK research, have I been able to trade some books with one of the most respected, long time members here. I was able to fortunately recieve "The Man on the Grassy Knoll". I suggest it, as it is a very good read, even if it all may not be true. For those not familiar, it is about the theory of Charles Rogers, as the hitman, along with Harrelson, and Holt. If only half is true, it is still a very interesting book. Something on every turn of the page. Alot of speculation on the authors part, but it gets to the core of the relationship of the men, and their early life. Im not sold on the theory, but very good, none the less. Just my opinion FWIW. thanks-smitty

Lee, Great post! To all who added, the same. Very revealing story, with many questions, and other events coming from this thread. One has to wonder what was really going on, and why more wasnt made of this a long time ago. [we know why! lol!] I dont have much to add, but wanted thank Lee for bringing this subject up, and what a good job he did of it, and to the rest of you who responded and added to the subject. Thanks-smitty

Yes, great evidence , Wim. I hear so often, "site your evidence". What more do they want? There is a mountain of evidence, like this , that has been ignored. This guy, and many others, witnessed things that were not included in the "official report". The Orwellian nature of this matter is beyond comprehension. Thanks Wim for the info. Great video, and Im going to watch them all. What is so nice is finally being able to actually see these peole, and the interviews Mark did with all of the people, and all of the "early" recorded videos of their eyewitness evidence. Im glad to call Mark my "neighbor". He did so much work on the case, and deserves alot of credit that alot of people dont want to give him. All of his books, and the Liberty Lobby winning verdict, disproving Hunts testimony, and proving him a skunk. A round of applause for Mark Lane! Just my opinion FWIW. thanks-smitty

Gil, great post. I believe he was hit as you do, and was reacting the way he did, I would assume, as anyone would after being hit in the troat by a supposed bullet. [ I surely wouldnt know as Ive never had it happen to me] But I beleive he was reacting that way because of the hit in the throat, and I beleive they did remove it, if I am correct, there was a signed "recieved from" receipt for a "missle" from one of the Agencies. I dont beleive the damage done on his throat was from the removal, but to "hide the obvious entrance wound" that was described by the doctors at Parkland. It all makes sense when you think about it, as he wasnt hit anywhere near it in the back to be the "exit " wound, and the doctors described it as an entrance wound, as they had probably seen huundreds of them at the Parkland emergency room over the years. So it only goes to show, and prove, there had to be the "second "gunman, to throw the SB Theory out the window from the very start! Just my opinion FWIW. thanks-smitty

Thanks all for the great posts here. This subject is something that really needs immediate, serious investigation, and prosecution where deemed nessessary. These horrible acts that took place during those turbulant years, are acts that are still ringing in our ears today. It doesnt matter if the guilty people are 90 years old today, they need to be sentenced to death immediately! These crimes were hate crimes, carried out by radical racists, that were supported by all of the same types in their respective areas. This is why they got away with these crimes so many years ago. Even most of the police were Klan, and helped in assisting in the crimes themselves! All of them, including the Sherriffs, Police, and Troopers involved should also have the needles put in their arms! I have always been friends with Negroes, and still have many today. I attended my best friends [white Pastor] ,basically black, church for several years. I was accepted by most all of the congregation, but there were some who were leary of me, as can be expected. There are some blacks today who still carry that hatred from those years today, which I cant blame them. [ I may have too, but I wasnt put in that position to know]. Anything that can be done today to solve these crimes from years ago, should be supported by all who are sympathetic to this problem. Personally, there are times I am ashamed to be white, when I think of all of the hateful, hidious, and disgusting things these radical scumbags did to the blacks during that period. Just think what this country might be today if Martin Luther King wast killed so many years ago? This country might be a much better place to live today. I live in an area that has a large black population, and for the most part, we all get along very well. But you will always have some racial people stirring up trouble no matter where you live. I just hope and pray, that these people are brought to justice, and these people who were killed so many years ago, never are forgotten for who they were, and what they were trying to do. I hope you all support any and all bills brought up, that will help continue this fight against these horrible crimes, and people connected with them. Just my opinion FWIW. thanks-smitty

Thanks Bernice! I forgot all about his statement about all of the changes they made in his statements. Great post. Im sure the Dept. was trying to discredit Roger, because of what he knew. It seemed they did that to alot of people, not just Roger. [also the FBI/CIA etc.....] Anybody who saw, heard, or knew too much, were either discredited, chased out of town, or maybe even eliminated! As you posted, his wife was also under constant pressure, and, as any married couple would admit, something of that magnitude like this going on, would certainly take its toll on any marriage. I cant remeber how many times they had to move, not only from pressure, but people would not rent to them, [because of who they were, and the pressure and stories put upon them] I really dont know how they could have gotten by, if not for the help of Penn Jones. Thanks again Bernice, you always seem to post some very good stuff! lol! I will be keeping my eye on this thread, but as I posted before, there is a seperate section of past posts about Roger Craig in our [archives?] here somewhere. Maybe John can post the correct title and location of those postings. [im not very good at that type of stuff! Im liucky I can even use this computer, let alone do something tricky!!] Just my opinion FWIW. thanks-smitty

I dont believe he was lying, or trying to manufacture more into his story, than what it was, and what he saw. Im sure if you take just about anybodys testimonies who were witnesses [or where involved in anyway with the assassination] and look at them over the years, Im sure you will find some differences, and slight changes in their stories that I would think would happen to just about anybodies testimony. You hear it every day here on the Forum. [people claiming how people changed their stories over the years, and did so mostly for the glory of making themselves seem more important than they really were]. I truly dont beleive this was the case with Roger Craig. Michael, In Craig's case, the changes were more than just slight. The Rambler: Craig, WC testimony: Mr. BELIN - Did it have a Texas license plate, or not? Mr. CRAIG - It had the same color. I couldn't see the--uh--name with the numbers on it. I could just barely make them out. They were at an angle where I couldn't make the numbers of the--uh--any of the writing on it. But---uh---I'm sure it was a Texas plate. Craig, Shaw trial testimony: Q: Can you describe the station wagon in any great detail? A: It was a light green Rambler station wagon with the luggage rack on the back portion and it had out-of-state plates on it and the reason I know this is they were not the same color as ours and I couldn't read them because of the angle of the car and the traffic movement. The Rifle: Craig, WC testimony: Mr. CRAIG - Well, there was just--uh--of course, everybody stayed there, you know, and sort of mingled around and--uh--I then went back downstairs after the weapon was picked up. The identification man from the city of Dallas then, after he took his pictures, picked the weapon up and handed it to Will Fritz. And I then went back downstairs and over to the sheriffs office. Craig, Shaw trial testimony: Q: While you were on the sixth floor and in your presence was any rifle found? A: Yes. Q: And did you personally find the rifle? A: No, sir, I did not but I was about eight feet from the gentleman that found it. Q: Did you ever get closer to the gentleman holding the rifle? A: Yes, sir, I did. Q: Approximately how far? A: About one foot or one and a half foot. I was standing next to him. Q: Do you recall the man who was there? A: No, he was an ID man from the Dallas Police Department, however, he did not find the rifle, Eugene Boone, a Deputy Sheriff, he found the rifle. Q: What do you mean an ID man? A: An identification man from the Dallas Police Department. Q: Approximately how long did you view the rifle at this time? A: Just two or three minutes. They took it away immediately, they held lit up by the strap and then took it away from there. Early reports said the rifle recovered on the 6th floor of the Depository was a Mauser, a British .303, and “foreign make”. Craig’s interview with the Los Angeles Free Press in March 1968 ."PJ" is Penn Jones. FP: Did you handle that rifle? RC: Yes, I did. I couldn't give its name because I don't know foreign rifles, I know it was foreign made, and you loaded it downward into a built-in clip. The ID man took it and ejected one live round from it. The scope was facing north, the bolt facing upwards and the trigger south. But there was another rifle, a Mauser, found up on the roof of the depository that afternoon. FP: A Mauser on the roof? Who found it? PJ: I don't know who found it, but I do know that a police officer verified its existence. In later years, however, Craig's account changed and he adopted the version that has the Mauser found on the 6th floor. In his manuscript, Craig says "Lt. Day inspected the rifle briefly, then handed it to Capt. Fritz who had a puzzled look on his face. Seymour Weitzman, a deputy constable, was standing beside me at the time. Weitzman was an expert on weapons. He had been in the sporting goods business for many years and was familiar with all domestic and foreign weapons. Capt. Fritz asked if anyone knew what kind of rifle it was. Weitzman asked to see it. After a close examination (much longer than Fritz or Day's examination) Weitzman declared that it was a 7.65 German Mauser. Fritz agreed with him. Apparently, someone at the Dallas Police Department also loses things but, at least, they are more conscientious. The Mauser on the roof, which Craig didn't claim to have seen, had become the Mauser on the 6th floor. A few years later, when he was interviewed for "Two Men in Dallas," Craig claimed to have viewed the rifle close-up and saw the notation "7.65 Mauser." The Rambler plates were Texas plates(or same color as Texas plates), then they weren't. He didn't handle the rifle, then he did. There are many instances of complete opposite statements, not slight changes. The only reason I would tend to believe the Rambler story is because it was corroborated by other witnesses. Another BTW, the Jack Beers photo of Craig in the Homicide office was taken on Saturday the 23rd, not Friday the 22nd. RJS Very nice work Rich! Im impressed. Ive never heard those testimonies before. There was so much confusion those first few days, and if you have ever given a deposition, or have been ordered to tetify in a case such as this one, [ I have] there is alot of pressure. Im sure he made some mistakes, and you can find many in alot of peoples testimonies, [Helen Markham for example], but all in all, I do beleive he did the best he could under the circumstances. I think the point im making here is that he really didnt sway from his basic story of what happened. Many other officers , Im sure were ordered to change their stories or to keep their moths shut, and Roger didnt. Im not going to make excuses for Roger, or continue trying to defend him, but I truly beleive he stayed with his basic story and did his job [wasnt his fault Lummie lost maybe a very important witness that day- or maybe Lummie was told to lose her! who knows??] I dont think someone would have endured what he and his family did, all those years, if he wasnt just being an honest Deputy doing what he thought was right. Alot of people would have kept their mouths shut after being threatened, or shot at the first time. He never did. He endured all of the harrassment, ridicule, lose of county job, eventually his wife, and many jobs. But he still maintained his basic story of what happened that day. If it wasnt for Penn Jones helping the Craigs out over the years, who knows what may have happened. Thats all. I dont want to keep going back and forth on this subject. You did a good job making your point and I applaud you for that. That s what is nice about this Forum, we can discuss things in a gentlemanly way, and make our points and move on. Not argue and continue to drag things out into shouting matches as some seem to do here. Just may opinion FWIW. thanks-smitty

Please do some research on Craig and his various statements and testimony before accepting everything he had to say. His stories changed drastically over the years, so he never "stuck to his truthful story". Regarding "proof" that Craig was photographed in Fritz's office, he was not. He was photographed in the Homicide/Robbery office. LHO was questioned in Fritz's office, which is behind the H/R outer office. Fritz said Craig was never in his office, and when Craig showed up at Fritz's office door, he was referred to another officer in that outer office. This isn't a question of semantics concerning offices as some might say. Craig said he was in Fritz's office while LHO was being questioned. By all accounts other than Craig's, he was not. Craig is on the far right in the photo. Richard, I have read most portions of his "book, but like I said, I haven't read the book as a whole. From what I have read, and what I do know of him, [his service record, his family life, hard work, and willingness to stick to his story] I dont believe he was lying, or trying to manufacture more into his story, than what it was, and what he saw. Im sure if you take just about anybodys testimonies who were witnesses [or where involved in anyway with the assassination] and look at them over the years, Im sure you will find some differences, and slight changes in their stories that I would think would happen to just about anybodies testimony. You hear it every day here on the Forum. [people claiming how people changed their stories over the years, and did so mostly for the glory of making themselves seem more important than they really were]. I truly dont beleive this was the case with Roger Craig. I beleive he was an honest Deputy, who was doing his best job possible, and did all he could to help solve JFK's killing. The man was set up by his own department, and let go, after years of honorable service, for just being honest about what happened. You are entitled to your opinion, just like everyone else here, but I beleive his story. As I close all of my posts "just my opinion FWIW", means just that. Its my opinion, that all. thanks-smitty

Hi all, I haven't read his whole book, but alot of portions of it. Roger Craig has always been a a very interesting character to me, and has always gotten my attention. I believe his story completely, and from what happened to him after the assassination [not only the attempts on his life, but being booted by the Department, after having years of commendable service], just leads me to beleive they knew he knew more than they wanted him too. I beleive there is a separate section [threads on Roger here on the Forum somewhere] where there are many good posts concerning him, his service, and what had happened to him years later. Penn Jones and he were very close from what I understand, and Penn helped the Craig family out over the years. It is hard to beleive what he endured over the years after the assassination. It is a very sad story when you look at it. He saw many things that day, and also stopped and detained the woman in the parking lot, only to have Lummie Lewis "somehow" lose her! I have also always beleived he was correct in the I.D. of the rifle [Mauser], as were the others there who I.D.'d it correctly. [one other a former gunsmith/shop owner!] I will check out that full story at that site myself, as I would like to read the full manuscript. Thanks for that info Don! Its sad that others like Roger, backed down, and changed their stories under pressure from above, because if they hadn't, maybe things might have come out a little differently. Roger always stuck to his truthful story over the years, and look what it got him. It is truely a shame that an honest man like him had to endure all of what he did, just for being honest, and sticking to his story! Just my opinion FWIW. thanks -smitty