Ed LeDoux

[What is a demilitarized zone? Sounds

like something out of The Wizard of Oz,

Oh, no, don't go in there.

Oh-we-oh

Ho Chi'Minh

Oh, look, you've landed in Saigon.

You're among

the little people now.

We represent the ARVN Army

The ARVN Army

Oh, no! Follow the Ho Chi Minh Trail.

Follow the Ho Chi Minh Trail.

"Oh, I'll get you, my pretty!" Oh, my

God. It's the wicked witch of the north.

It's Hanoi Hanna!]

Sorry John, but every time I see Ho Chi Minh I can't help but Quote Robin Williams from "Good Morning Vietnam."

It is a bad habit and don't take offense please.

As you were saying.............

Jack,

And lets not forget the library or the club/restaurant which Scoggins was parked near, also the diner in that area. Or perhaps he was breaking in some new shoes from Hardy's. Lots of places to go but not much time to get there or be coming from to get to the murder spot.

I agree totally if it was LHO he would need a destination, not just strolling about Oakcliff aimlessly.

More than likely the Tippit murderer was known by JD and was looking for Tippits girlfriend at the apartment. It could be her ex or another paramour who knew better than go to a cops girlfriends place without protection (and I don't mean contraception). Tippit calls the apartment and gets no answer, maybe he thinks she is home and is not answering because she is in bed with another. He is furious and jealousy makes him tear across Oakcliff to her place to find someone coming out of the complex who he knows to be a rival for her affections, or has no business in the area because JD knows everyone in the building. As he is parking he sees the other guy who starts away from him, so JD calls out to him from the window. When he talks to him and doesn't like the answers he is getting he decides to use a little force to get his point across to leave his girl alone or else. Before he can do that the rival shows him who's boss and drops JD with a flurry of shots. Then to make sure he never intimidates him ever again he caps him in the brain pan. A crime of passion.

Or Tippit was filling in on the assassination for Harry Olsen, and was a lose end who got trimmed. So Harry figures he is next for a dirt nap after Ruby shoots Lee and then on Sunday he takes the drive with Kathy to Henrietta to get some money to skip town from his parents and or stash something there as an insurance policy.

Isn't it fun to speculate. I could do it all day and it would get us nowhere.........

The bizarre midnight meeting Friday night with Ruby, Olsen and Kay outside Simon's Garage which lasted two or three hours according to Olsen is one place I would want to be a fly on the wall.

Sounds like they had a lot to discuss even if it was only an hour long conversation.

Back to the point that Oswald is not the Tippit shooter.

Thank you Jack for using logic and common sense to prove Tippit's murderer was not LHO.

J. Raymond Carroll also used a little thing called evidence, I like that and wish more of us used it. Mr. Lane too seems to use reality to base his remarks on this subject.

"Charlie Black

PS I would bet that mine and my wife's timepieces almost never agree....even if they were set by the same standard."

This would seem to point out that you know how much your time piece differs from your wife's and how they each correspond to say the five o'clock news. I too have several time keepers and know how each is set and how they differ, the one by the TV is fast so I won't miss a show. The one on my wrist is set to the clock at work. The one on my cellular phone is set by the provider and matches exactly the time on my computer. The one on the Microwave is one minute fast but the one on the stove is right on. We all know what time it is by looking at any device designed to keep time and whether it is fast slow or right on time by repetition of use. Mrs. Markham is no different. She would know the bus driver is fast, slow, or usually right on time most of the time and would adjust her actions accordingly. The same can't be said for the WC staff who warp time to fit a certain scenario. If they were interested in the true time they would compare the witnesses time pieces to an independent device and get a common value, this of course was not done. Even you Mr. Black realize the need for this by your statement "...mine and my wife's timepieces almost never agree....even if they were set by the same standard." Only in a true investigation, though would this be done.

Hi Myra,

Here are a few bits on the subject of his eyes,

Dennis David:....the right eye seemed to be a little more prominent than it is here in this picture. (photo 1= stare of death)

William Law: More prominent as to what?

David: Protruded.

Law: So it was popped.

David: You could say that.

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Paul O'Connor: His right eye, as I remember, was poked completely out of the orbit, the eye casing. I remember that Dr. Boswell and I looked into the back of the cranium, looking towards the front, and the orbit-the boney casing around where the eye sits was completely fractured.

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James Jenkins: ....And the only thing is that when they were preparing the body for burial, they had to put a suture in the right eyelid in order to keep it closed because apparently there may have been some bone fracture in that area, but there was no externally visible wound or fracturing there.

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Harold Rydberg: I don't think I see in the autopsy pictures--Dr. Humes told me, "make sure that right eye is blackened" because that orbital socket was fractured, and that right eye was blackened. Now even in lividity, where the blood settles to the bottom, the bruises will still show. And there is no bruise on that right eye. On that face [in the autopsy photographs].

Law: You're talking about whenyou had to do the drawings, correct?

Rydberg: Yes. That was one request: "Make sure that right eye is blackened. Bruised. Like you've got a black eye."

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Jerrol Custer: The eye was more protruded at the time, but there's nothing to say that the eye wasn't pushed back in. Because at that time also there was a mortician ther doing his work, his job was fixing, making the body more presentable.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All above quotes are from William Matson Law's "IN THE EYE OF HISTORY", how apropos!!

Great "eye" for detail Myra. I wondered why the priest did not close the eyes for the last rites, or were they already closed by the nurses or Crenshaw.

MORE QUOTES:

CE 387 Pathological Examination Report

...the eyes are blue, the right pupil measuring 8 mm.in diameter, the left 4 mm.

There is edema and aechymosis of the inner canthus region

of the left eyelid measuring approximately 1.5 ma. in greatest diameter. There is edema

and ecchymosis diffusely over the right supra-orbital ridge with abnormal mobility of

the underlying bone.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MR. GUNN: I notice that this photo is different from the first view that we took a look at. The eye, at least on the right side, appears to be open. Actually, both eyes appear to be open. Do you recall whether the eyes were open during the course of the autopsy?

DR. J THORNTON BOSWELL: I don't recall that that was a point of interest. I think we just moved back and let the photographer take the picture, and I think maybe positioning the body may have had something to do with stretching the eyelids. But I don't think we made any attempt to take the pictures with the eyes open or closed.

MR. GUNN: So the difference on whether the eyes were open or closed would not be of any material significance in terms of the timing of the photographs?

DR. J THORNTON BOSWELL: No.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MR. GUNN: Do you have any recollection as to whether the eyes of President Kennedy were open at any point during the autopsy?

JOHN T. STRINGER: Yes.

MR. GUNN: Were they open at all points during the autopsy?

JOHN T. STRINGER: Well, they kept trying to close them, and they'd open again.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MR. GUNN: Do the eyes of President Kennedy appear to be open in these photographs?

Dr. Humes: Yes.

MR. GUNN: Were the eyes, in fact, open during the autopsy, do you recall?

Dr. Humes: The picture shows me that they were.

MR. GUNN: If other photographs did not have the eyes open, would you be able to explain the difference in that appearance?

Dr. Humes: I don't know. I might, I guess. I don't know.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Arlen Specter: Upon your arrival in the room, where President Kennedy was situated, what did you observe as to his condition?

Malcolm Perry: At the time I entered the door, Dr. Carrico was attending him. He was attaching the Bennett apparatus to an endotracheal tube in place to assist his respiration. The President was lying supine on the carriage, underneath the overhead lamp. His shirt, coat, had been removed. There was a sheet over his lower extremities and the lower portion of his trunk. He was unresponsive. There was no evidence of voluntary motion. His eyes were open, deviated up and outward, and the pupils were dilated and fixed.

1. any photos of individuals milling about the epileptic who collapsed in Dealey Plaza?

or

2. Any photos of the very tall individual with a crew-cut who was seen a couple of blocks away from the Plaza on the morning of 11/22/63?

PS Have you scanned "The JFK Murder - A Revisionist History" for photos? There are a few gems in there, particularly some footage of Dallas Police breaking up some extreme right-wing protestors [time frame unknown probably circa latter half 1963 early 1964?

Robert,

Here is what you wanted from THE MURDER OF JFK, A REVISIONISTS HISTORY.

I like the guy in black face.lol Also you can see the Adolphus Hotel in the background. Notice the one cop is a reserve officer. Is the tall guy with the crew cut the same one you were looking for around DP?

Is Joel now a member on the Forum?

Slightly edited / updated from when I originally emailed it around / posted it...brought to my attention originally by Steve Thomas - thanks Steve.

The recent relevation of a sighting by an 85 year old woman caller into a radio show - as posted by Douglas Caddy, becomes even more interesting!

FROM Coast to Coast with George Noory 11-22-06

Caller named Velma who lives hundred miles From Dallas, lived in Dallas at time, had her car parked behind TSBD and saw shooter with Very High Powered Rifle come out of back of TSBD, there was grey dove colored old one seated Plymouth car with man who had felt hat wide band and had on suit, had black hair and real heavy eyebrows, looked at her kinda dirty. A police car come told man to move, the man didn't move right away, so police man got out, who she found out later was Tippit, and said I told you to move that car. Then the man went straight on and drove around bldg that was across the street, Tippit went the other way and must have met back there. Said she had not told anyone because she had four children to support and didn't want to get shot. Host George Noory says he will continue with her when they return from commercial........

Velma: ...high-powered rifle, it was no bolt action...

Noory: Let me ask you please because that rifle that they said Oswald used to kill Kennedy was apparently left upstairs, you're saying you saw someone else come out with a high powered rifle..?

V: OK, I'm sitting in my car and there's a grey, dark, old, one-seated, Plymouth car sittin there, and there's a man with a felt hat on with a wide band on it and he had on a suit, and he had black hair and real heavy eyebrows; he looked at me kinda dirty.

Well about that time a police car come and told this man to move, and he didn't move right away and police got out of his car , and I know later it was Tippit. He told him to move that car. Well then this man..went straight on around the big building...

N: Did you say this to the Warren Commission?

V: I haven't told anybody because I had four children, had to support them, I didn't want to get shot.

N: Well what did the shooter look like when he came out?

V: Well, I'm sitting there and police had made this grey car move...he went into the parkin lot right across but the man comin out of the book building could not see that grey car then. So this man, I'm sitting looking in that direction, and all at once this man was...like in the Eisenhower jacket, you know the little short jacket...he comes running out, holding this real, high-powered rifle in his right hand with it pointin straight up in the air. And he is running so fast that he didn't realize that grey car was gone until he got almost to it and then he turned real fast, turned left and run toward that underpass. Well about that time, Tippitt...there was no street that run toward that underpass from where we were, back of the building, so Tippitt cut across that grass and right down that hill, and that's the last I saw him. Later I heard that this man in this grey car was named Elrod.

N: Elrod. How old would you have said this gunman was?

V: something in his 30's, I'd think.

N: Did he look military?

V: well, he knew how to handle a gun. That gun was so well kept, the wood was so shiny.

N: When he went running, he kept the rifle with him?

V: The rifle? His hand was never moved. His hand was about the height of his right shoulder...and all the time he's running

N: Were other people there to witness him running out of the building?

V: No, I'm the only one because I don't know if that man in the grey car saw him. But that grey car was later seen up there at the theatre...so he was picked that man up...when he got lost there in the parkin lot, this man didn't see him, he didn't wait, I mean he ran just as fast as he could. He was running so fast that the wind was catching his jacket, blowing it straight up behind.

N: And the police officer who you thought was Tippitt was chasing him?

V: Yes, Tippitt...he was suspicious seeing that car. I don't know why he never noticed me or bothered me but he made that car go on but then Tippitt circled and got behind me up the street so he was lost after he made that grey car move.

N: After all these years, how come you're saying this now?

V: Well I was supporting myself and four children, I didn't want to get shot.

N: You were convinced they would have gotten you?

V: They would have; nobody else saw it but me.

N: What about now, are you willing to...

V: I had a man from overseas contact me, and he wanted Jim Marrs to get in touch with me...some way this man got in touch with my daughter on the computer.

N: Velma, how old are you?

V: I'm 85; I was 42 then.

N: You are convinced that that person running out of the building was not the Lee Harvey Oswald that we all know about?

V: I don't think so; he was about the size of him but from what I know it was a different gun...They found Oswald's gun in the building but this is a different man and a different gun, I'm convinced.

N: You do know that you could have changed the course of this investigation?

V: Well, I didn't want to get shot.

N: Well what about now?

V: Well, I'm 85, if they shoot me...hee..hee..hee

N: So you want the truth out?

V: I want the truth out, I get tired of hearing Oswald was the only shooter...this man was a professional.

N: Would you submit to a lie detector test?

V: Well certainly, I don't have any reason not to because what I'm telling you is what I saw.

N: We're going to follow up with this. We will put Jim Marrs in touch with you as well...because you may very well have some of the biggest information of the entire John F. Kennedy assassination.

Here is link to Coast to Coast AM show from 11-22-2006

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/jfk.htm Note:this is free. Only first part of call though.

or,

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2006/11/22.html#recap Note:this is not free.

A good show and a must listen.

Don't tell me, it's to be called:

DEAD MAN (wait he already did that)

DEAD MAN'S CHEST (that's no good either)

SLOW BURN (you know, radiation...shoot did that one too)

210 JUMP STREET (polonium-210)

ONCE UPON A TIME IN PICCADILLY (no, too similar)

HOTEL GRAY (The Millenium would not like that. A gray is the equal to US rad, 1 rad = 0.01 gray)

ITSU NICE TO MEET YOU (Itsu Sushi would sue him )

Okay how about REALLY BAD FISH...or... A MEAL TO REMEMBER.

Whatever the name I would give it "glowing" reviews.

A nice find Myra!

>by crackie! this is a much more indepth investigation than the WC.

how on earth could the WC be so blind?

woops, dare it is.

what a way to run a railroad. lol<

Donald,

I call it the Oswald Express. All aboard, no stops, and full steam ahead. Now passing Truth, soon to pass Judgement.

Ed

He was a loyal foot soldier for the regime.

Maybe they'll name the next war after him or something.

Or a car like the new "Ford Pardon"

If he were still alive I would give him a pat on the back, but he would report it as the neck.

Ed

Excellent article, Ed...great research!

Thank you Jack!

Ed

Thank you Lee,

>that the whole Oswald bus scenario may have been James Worrell - mistaken as Oswald? - too bad we can't ask him.<

Oh we CAN ask him, but just don't expect an answer without a ouija board.

Mr. SPECTER - You went in an easterly direction how many blocks down Pacific?

Mr. WORRELL - I went down to Market and from Market I went on Ross.

Mr. SPECTER - You went left on Market down to Ross, and then?

Mr. WORRELL - From Ross I went all the way to Ervay.

Mr. SPECTER - Where were you heading for at the time?

Mr. WORRELL - For the bus stop near my mother's office. And I rode the bus from there out to the school and hitchhiked the rest of the way to Farmer's Branch.

I wonder if he got a transfer? Actually he would have been going to North Dallas(Farmers Branch) from Evray, wrong direction for the "lakewood" run.

I'd also be curious to know the description of the clothing left by Vaganov in the phone booth - does that exist anywhere?

Are you talking of "turk's" Dark grey suit, white shirt, blue tie, red printed vest with pearl buttons from FBI report; or what he left the apartment in , khaki trousers, white shirt, light jacket (tan?)?

Tell me more, I maybe missing something about the clothes and phone booth... I get so side tracked with your great replys.

>I said the Rambler station wagon was light green. The Warren Commission: Changed to a white station wagon; <

I said the driver of the Station Wagon had on a tan jacket. The Warren Commission: A white jacket;

Was Craig color blind or did the Rambler look that color in shadow? Or am I trying to fit Wing's Rambler into the scenario again?

More later,

Ed

>Another view of his clothing<

john,

Thats a cool shot. Colorized?

His clothing or just his head....

Ed

"Oswald and the Amazing Technicolor Jacket"

..and the chameleon like qualities of the alleged assassins coat.

Marina Oswald said Lee had only two jackets - one Dark Blue and one a lightweight Gray.

At least two witnesses at the scene of Tippit's slaying

reported his killer wore a White jacket.

One of these, Helen Markham, was shown Oswald's gray jacket

by a Warren Commission attorney who asked,

"Did you ever see this before?"

Despite having been shown the jacket by the FBI prior to her testimony, Markham replied:

"No, I did not....that jacket is a darker jacket than that, I know it

was."

Witness Domingo Benavides was shown a jacket by Commission Attorney David

Belin, who said, "I am handing you a jacket which had been marked as

Commission's Exhibit 163, and ask you to state whether this bears any

similarity to the jacket you saw this man with the gun wearing?"

Benavides responded:

"I would say this looks just like it..."

The problem here is that Commission's Exhibit 163 is Oswald's dark blue jacket.

The gray jacket is Commission's Exhibit 162.

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ON THE BUS?

The driver, Cecil McWatters, and passenger Roy Milton Jones said the man who

boarded the bus was wearing a jacket.

Jones said the jacket was LIGHT BLUE in color. Interestingly, the cab driver

initially said the man who rode in his cab during the time in question was

wearing a faded BLUE jacket. The WC said the man in both instances was

Oswald, but the commission also insisted Oswald wasn't wearing a jacket

after he left the Book Depository. The commission had to deny the accounts

of a light blue jacket because it claimed Oswald left his blue jacket at

work that day, where it was "found" WEEKS later, and because that

jacket was not light blue. (WCR p. 163).

Roy Milton Jones described this man as follows:

Races White

Sex. Male

Age. 30-35

Height. 5'11"

Weight. 150

Builds Medium

Remarks. wore no glasses and no hat

Hairs. Dark brown, receding at temples

Dress. Light blue jacket and gray khaki

trousers

Mary Bledsoe describes Oswald's shirt, that is was undone, dirty, had a hole in the sleeve at the elbow. Why is Bledsoe the only one who notices this?

Only Bledsoe described such a shirt. No one else who saw Oswald that day referred to Oswald as wearing a ripped or torn shirt.

McWatters and Jones said Oswald was wearing a jacket. (2H 264;277, CE 2641, also Meagher p.81) McWatters thought he was identifying a man who most closely resembled Jones.

McWatters testifies, "...he was the shortest man in the lineup...and the lightest weight one...the rest of them were larger men....he kind of had a thin like face and he weighs less than any of them...I really thought he was the man who was on the bus...that stayed on the bus." (2H281)

Mr. Ball.- "Were you under the impression that this man that you saw in the lineup and whom you pointed out to the police, was the teenage boy who had been grinning?"

Mr. McWatters.- "I was, yes, sir;"

Bledsoe never went to a line up. She identified Oswald from photographs shown to her by the Dallas police of Oswald holding a gun. ( Meagher p. 80)

Only Bledsoe gives the condition of his shirt as undone, ripped, torn, dirty, and missing buttons. If Jones and McWatters saw Ozzie wearing a jacket then how did Bledsoe see the shirt? Was she on a different bus altogether?

Mr. Ball - "What bus did you catch?"

Mrs. Bledsoe - "Well, I don't remember whether it was the Marsalis or the Romana."

Later counsel asks this pointed question:

Mr. Ball. - "Did you remember seeing him get on or are you telling me something you read in the newspapers?" <6H410>

Then comes this exchange about the shirt:

Mr. Ball.- No, I am talking about---I am showing you this shirt now, and you said, "That is it." You mean---What do you mean by "that is it"?

Mrs. Bledsoe.- That is the one he had out there that day?

Mr. Ball.- Who had it out there?

Mrs. Bledsoe.- Some Secret Service man.

Mr. Ball.- He brought it out. Now, I am---you have seen this shirt then before?

Mrs. Bledsoe.- Yes.

Mr. Ball.- It was brought out by the Secret Service man and shown to you?

Mrs. Bledsoe.- Yes.

Mr. Ball.- Had you ever seen the shirt before that?

Mrs. Bledsoe.- Well---

Mr. Ball.- Have you?

Mrs. Bledsoe.- No; he had it on, though. (6H413)

To recap; Oswald is said to be on the bus with Bledsoe, then goes home and changes his clothes, takes off ripped torn shirt (WCR 604-605, 622), gets arrested and somehow has on the same ripped torn dirty shirt which is shown to Bledsoe. Right.

More plausible Oswald did not go home he rode by bus all the way to the theater. He wore only the clothes he had on when he left work, the same clothes he was arrested in.

Or... in a Rambler.

Oswald was under the impression that he left Dealey Plaza in "Mrs. Paine's" station wagon. Bert Sugar and Sybil Leek apparently had information that Paine borrowed a car similar to the one seen in Dealey Plaza. What was not mentioned, however, was that they claimed she "sometimes borrowed" the car from Jack Ruby. 1

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

IN THE CAB?

Cabdriver William Whaley, who reportedly drove Oswald home from downtown Dallas.

Whaley identified the gray jacket as the one Oswald was wearing in his cab.

Yet the Warren Commission, based on testimony from Earlene Roberts, stated that Oswald

put on the jacket AFTER arriving at his lodgings.

At the police lineup, Whaley picked out eighteen-year-old David Knapp instead of twenty-four-year-old Lee Harvey Oswald ( Knapp did not even resemble Oswald). Whaley had said that Oswald was number two in the lineup he witnessed. The numbers were from left to right and clearly visible; each man in the lineup had a number that was clearly visible to the man trying to identify the ‘suspect’. The Commission, however, said that Oswald was number three. Trying to explain this problem (this really meant that he didn’t identify Oswald but the man next to him), he said that he had counted from the right to the left, ignoring the numbers that were put there to aid identification (why make it easy when it can be done in a more difficult way?). This could mean, of course, he identified number 5, since he believed there were six people in that lineup.

Mr. Ball.

Did you notice how he was dressed?

Mr. Whaley.

Yes, sir. I didn't pay much attention to it right then. But it all came back when I really found out who I had. He was dressed in just ordinary work clothes. It wasn't khaki pants but they were khaki material, blue faded blue color, like a blue uniform made in khaki. Then he had on a brown shirt with a little silverlike stripe on it and he had on some kind of jacket, I didn't notice very close but I think it was a work jacket that ALMOST MATCHED THE PANTS

(EMPHASIS MINE- MEANING A FADED BLUE JACKET).

He, his shirt was open three buttons down here. He had on a T-shirt. You know, the shirt was open three buttons down there.

Whaley’s identity as the man who drove that taxi, however, is not an ‘open and shut’ issue.

Henry Wade said that man was “Darryl Click”. The mistake was explained as Wade having

misunderstood “Oak Cliff” as the name of the cabdriver.

On November 27, Click became Whaley.

Another cabdriver, Charles Kimerlin, however, would later say he was the man who

took Oswald to his boardinghouse.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Whaley and TWO jackets?

Mr. Ball.

Here is Commission No. 162 which is a gray jacket with zipper.

Mr. Whaley.

I thank that is the jacket he had on when he rode with me in the cab.

Mr. Ball.

Look something like it?

And here is Commission Exhibit No. 163, does this look like anything he had on?

Mr. Whaley.

He had this one on or the other one.

Mr. Ball.

That is right.

Mr. Whaley.

That is what I told you I noticed. I told you about the shirt being open, he had on the TWO JACKETS with the open shirt.

Mr. Ball.

Wait a minute, we have got the shirt which you have identified as the rust brown shirt with the GOLD stripe in it.

Mr. Whaley.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

You said that a jacket--

Mr. Whaley.

That jacket now it might have been clean, but the jacket he had on looked more the color, you know like a uniform set, but he had this coat here on over that other jacket, I am sure, sir.

Mr. Ball.

This is the blue-gray jacket, heavy blue-gray jacket.

Mr. Whaley.

Yes, sir. (EMPHASIS MINE)

How accommidating Mr. Whaley is.

So it was both jackets, or either jacket, you choose Mr. Ball,

but it still did not match exactly.

Even the shirt changed from silver striped to a gold striped one!

----------------------------------------------------------------

Per FBI report:

MARINA OSWALD was interviewed at 11611 Farrar,

A faded blue cloth Jacket with padding bearing

label "Sir Jac" with zipper front was exhibited to MARINA.

She immediately identified this jacket as being the property

of her husband, LEE HARVEY OSWALD. She said she recognized

the jacket because she has handled it and washed it for

OSWALD.

Does this dark blue jacket look faded? Why is the FBI altering the description of this jacket?

picture of LHO dark blue jacket*

----------------------------------------------------------------

Testifying to the Warren Commission, Earlene Roberts said:

"He (Oswald) went to his room and he was in his shirt sleeves...and he got

a jacket and put it on - it was kind of a zipper jacket."

Mr. Ball.- "You say he put on a separate jacket?"

Mrs. Roberts.- "A jacket."

Mr. BALL.- "I'll show you this jacket which is Commission Exhibit 162---have you ever seen this jacket before?"

Mrs. Roberts.- "Well, maybe I have, but I don't remember it. It seems like the one he put on was darker than that. Now, I won't be sure, because I really don't know, but is that a zipper jacket?"

Ruby associate Bertha Cheek was the sister of Earlene Roberts, the housekeeper at Oswald's rooming house. Ruby and Mrs. Cheek could have been involved in Cuban arms sales of which Oswald gained knowledge through his efforts to infiltrate the anti-Castro Cubans." 2

Mrs. Cheek was the sister of Earlene Roberts, housekeeper at 1026 N. Beckley, where Oswald was living at the time of the assassination. 3

Barbara Davis, another witness at the Tippit slaying, also could not

identify Oswald's gray jacket to the Warren Commission. In fact, she

stated the killer wore- "a dark coat...it looked like it was maybe a wool

fabric...more of a sporting jacket."

Cabdriver William Scoggins also failed to identify Oswald's jacket, saying,-"I thought it was a little darker."

Despite these problems of identification, the Commission went

right on asserting that the jacket belonged to Oswald.

Virginia Davis did not see a gray jacket.

Mr. BELIN.- "Do you remember what he had on?"

Mrs. DAVIS.- "He had on a light-brown-tan jacket."

Mr. BELIN.- "Do you remember what color his trousers were?"

Mrs. DAVIS.- "I think they were black. Brown jacket and trousers."

Ted Callaway ran from the car lot and saw the man with the gun. What does he say about the jacket?

Mr. Callaway.- "I told them he had some dark trousers and a light TANNISH gray windbreaker jacket, and I told him that he was fair complexion, dark hair."

Mr. Ball.- "I have a jacket here Commission's Exhibit No. 162. Does this look anything like the jacket that the man had on that you saw across the street with a gun?"

Mr. Callaway.- "Yes; it sure does. Yes, that is the same TYPE jacket.

Actually, I thought it had a little more TAN to it." (EMPHASIS MINE)

More Commission deception occurred in its reporting of the discovery of

the jacket. The Warren Report stated:

"Police Capt. W.R. Westbrook...walked through the parking lot behind the

service station and found a light-colored jacket lying under the rear of

one of the cars."

However, in his testimony, Westbrook was asked if he found some clothing.

He replied:

"Actually, I didn't find it - it was pointed out to me by... some

officer..."

According to the Dallas Police Radio log, a "white jacket" was found by

"279 (Unknown)" a full 15 minutes before Westbrook arrived on the scene.

The Commission made no effort to determine who really found the jacket, if

a jacket was actually found or if it was a white jacket which only later

was transformed into Oswald's gray jacket. Recently, the owner of the

Texaco station where the jacket reportedly was found told Texas

researchers that no one - neither the FBI, Dallas police nor the Warren

Commission - ever questioned him or his employees about this important

piece of evidence.

In addition, the jacket identified by federal

authorities as belonging to Oswald carried inside a laundry mark "30 030"

and a dry-cleaning tag "B 9738." A full-scale search by the FBI in both Dallas

and New Orleans failed to identify any laundry or dry cleaners using those

marks. (a fact not mentioned in the WC report)

Oswald's wife, Marina, testified she could not recall her husband

ever sending his jackets to a cleaning establishment, but that she did

recall washing them herself. (CE 1843).

Yet in CE 3000 Leslie Lawson, the owner/manager of Gray's Cleaners, 1209 Eldorado, Oak Cliff,

(that location is only a hundred yards from Oswald's rooming house) stated that he has seen Lee Harvey Oswald on one particular occasion and possibly on other occasions. Mr Lawson said that approximately a month earlier, Oswald handed in a tie, white shirt and black pair of trousers for cleaning. Two days later, when Oswald called to collect these items, he had been charged $1.25 and had complained about being charged 25 cents for the cleaning of his tie.

Lawson stated that he had seen Oswald at Reno's Speed Wash. A former Reno's employee, Joseph Johnson, was interviewed by the FBI on 28th July 1964 and stated that on the evening of 20th or 21st November 1963, Lee Harvey Oswald was 'washing laundry at Reno's Speed Wash. Oswald remained there, reading magazines, until midnight. (CE 3001)

Further investigation by the FBI turned up no laundry or dry-cleaning tags on any of Oswald's other clothing, and did not connect the laundry tag to any establishment.

If the jacket doesn't fit.

Oswald wore a size "small" shirt and jacket, all his clothes are size small, the "jacket" is a MEDIUM size, which adds to the suspicion that it was not his jacket. . If he had attorney Johnnie Cochran to represent him can you imagine what he would say?(sARCASM MINE)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Officer J. M. Poe interviewed Mrs. Markham, she told him Tippit's killer had bushy hair. She said the killer was "a white male about 25 years old, 5'10", slender build, bushy hair, wearing a brown jacket" (Myers, With Malice, p. 118, emphasis added). The jacket that the police claimed Oswald discarded after allegedly shooting Tippit wasn't even close to being brown in color. The police initially said the jacket they reportedly "found" was white. The jacket that was finally submitted as evidence was gray with a slight touch of blue.

Mr. BALL. Did he have a jacket or a shirt? The man that you saw shoot Officer Tippit and run away, did you notice if he had a jacket on?

Mrs. MARKHAM. He had a jacket on when he done it.

Mr. BALL. What kind of a jacket, what general color of jacket?

Mrs. MARKHAM. It was a short jacket open in the front, kind of a grayish tan.

Mr. BALL. Did you tell the police that?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, I did.

Comment: But the first police radio report on Tippit's killer, which was supposedly based at least partly on Mrs. Markham's description, said he was wearing a white jacket (CE 1974; Meagher, Accessories After the Fact, p. 272). In fact, three minutes after this report went out over the air, a police officer, who remains unidentified to this day, radios that he had the killer's white jacket in his possession. It would have been very hard to mistake Oswald's gray jacket for a white jacket after holding it and having a chance to look at for even just a few seconds.

To add to the confusion, one of the witnesses, Barbara Davis, said Tippit's killer was wearing a black coat. Is it not odd, and in fact astounding, that the "policeman" who allegedly "discovered" the killer's coat has never been identified (see Meagher, Accessories After the Fact, pp. 276-279; Lane, Rush to Judgment, pp. 203-204)?

Mr. BALL. Does it look like, anything like, the jacket the man had on?

Mrs. MARKHAM. It is short, open down the front. but that jacket it is a darker jacket than that, I know it was.

Mr. BALL. You don't think it was as light a jacket as that?

Mrs. MARKHAM. No, it was darker than that, I know it was.....

to Mark Lane:

Jacket :LIGHT GRAY looking jacket

Trousers :kind of dark trousers

Shirt :didn't see colour of shirt

in the men who killed kennedy (with her emphasis that she can exactly remember)

Jacket :BROWN jacket

Trousers :light gray trousers

Shirt :a light shirt

In his official report, Poe wrote that:

"We were met by a white female who identified herself as being Helen Marsalle, 328 E. 9th St., who stated she witnessed the shooting of the officer. When she went to his aid the suspect threatened to kill her and she ran. She identified the subject as a white male about 25 years old, 5'10", slender build, bushy hair, wearing a BROWN jacket"... "There were approximately six to eight witnesses, all telling officers that the subject was running west in the alley between tenth and Jefferson Streets"

Later in the day, Poe filed a Supplementary Offense report (Box 7, Folder # 2, Item # 37). Here he wrote:

"We were met by a white woman who identified herself as being Helen Marsille of 329 E. 9th Street who stated that she witnessed the shooting of the officer be an unknown white male of about 25 years of age about 5'10" wearing a BROWN jacket and dark pants. When she went to the aid of the Officer, the suspect threatened to kill her"...

"6 or 7 witnesses said that the suspect was running east in the alley that was between Tenth and Jefferson".

Here is radio transcript that shows when poe got to the scene:

1:22 Dispatcher Remain in the downtown vicinity, 26. Clear. 1:22.

26 (Ptm. G.W. Hammond) 10-4.

75 (Ptm. E.G. Sabastian) 75 Clear.

85 (Ptm. R.W. Walker) 85.

Dispatcher 85.

85 We have a description on this suspect over here on Jefferson. Last seen about 300 block of East Jefferson. He's a white male, about thirty, five eight, (siren) black hair, slender, wearing WHITE jacket, a white shirt and dark slacks. (Sirens)

Dispatcher Armed with what?

85 Unknown.

602 (ambulance) 602 in service.

105 (Ptm. J.M. Poe and L.E. Joz) 105.

Dispatcher 105.

105 We're at the location now.

Dispatcher 10-4.

So its Walker(85) who gives out description of white jacket before Poe talks to Markham.

------------------------------------------------------------------

The following exchange is logged at about 1:25 p.m.

279 (Unknown): "279, 279."

Dispatcher: "279" (Unknown).

279 (Unknown): "We believe we've got the suspect on shooting this officer out here. Got his white jacket. Believe he dumped it on this parking lot behind this service station at 400 block East Jefferson, across from Dudley Hughes (Funeral Parlor), and he had a

white jacket on. We believe this is it."

Dispatcher: "You do not have the suspect, is that correct?"

279 (Unknown): "No, just the jacket on the ground."

per Ian Griggs:

"Incidentally, radio call sign 279 is one of the difficult ones. It appears that it was allocated to at least two officers that day - three-wheel motorcyle officers J.R. Mackey and J.T. Griffin."

I agree the Lawrence exhibit (wh20) shows it assigned to both officers that day and shift. Why does not the other respond when he hears his number being used by the other? Griffin on parking duty and Mackey was at Stemmons Service Road & Industrial with W.E. Wilson and R.J. Kosan.

Calvin “Bud” Owens, Tippit’s supervisor from 10H79

Mr. OWENS. Yes--we were informed by a man whom I do not know, that the suspect that shot Officer Tippit had run across a vacant lot toward Jefferson, and thrown down his jacket, I think he said, WHITE, I'm not sure.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At 1:40PM Westbrook transmitted -

"We got a witness that saw him shed his jacket."

Did Westbrook ever tell us who this witness was who saw the jacket shed by the suspect? No.

Captain Westbrook's testimony at 7H 116-118:

"Yes; behind the Texaco service station, and some officer, I feel sure it was an officer, I still can't be positive - pointed this jacket out to me and it was laying slightly under the rear of one of the cars."

Now we find out it the witness maybe an officer but he is not sure who pointed it out.

Mr. BELIN. I am showing you Commission Exhibit 162, which appears to be a jacket with a zipper. Does that look like the Jacket you saw?

Mr. HUTSON. That looks like the jacket that was picked up by the officer behind the Texaco service station, behind the cars parked on the lot.

Mr. BELIN. Do you know the name of the officer that found it?

Mr. HUTSON. No, sir; I don't know.

Mr. BELIN. Do you know who he gave it to?

Mr. HUTSON. No, sir; I don't.

Mr. BELIN. You don't know if he gave it to Captain Westbrook?

Mr. HUTSON. I don't know. Captain Westbrook was there behind the house with us, and he was there at the time this was picked up with the man, but I don't know who had it in their hands.

Interrogations of Oswald do not mention any jacket; nothing in the official record indicates he was questioned about or confronted with the white jacket by the DPD, FBI or SEcret service.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

IN THE TSBD?

Marion Baker said in his report, "...as we reached the third or fourth floor I saw a man walking away from the stairway. Not second. Third or fourth. No lunchroom. No door with a glass panel. Just walking away from the stairway.

With regard to a description of this person, Baker said it was "a white man, approx 30 years old/5'9"/165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a LIGHT BROWN jacket."

Not a description of LHO, but one fitting Brennean's and Rowland's description of the man they saw.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

More witnesses

Frank Wright in interview.

Wright;"I was the first person out, and caught sight of Tippit in time to see him roll over once and then lie still." I saw a man standing in front of the car(Tippits) He was looking toward the man on the ground, the man who was standing in front of him(Tippit) was about medium height. He had on a LONG COAT, it ended just above his hands(?)I didnt see any gun. he ran around on the passenger side of the police car, he ran as fast as he could go, and GOT INTO HIS CAR, the car was about 1950-1951, maybe a Plymouth. He got in that car and drove away as fast as he could. I know what I saw, nothing in the world is going to change my opinion." (emphasis Wright's)

Jimmy Burt, across the street from the construction site where W.L Smith was working, watched the same man as he came from the direction of the Town and Country Cafe and continued walking west on 10th. Burt described him as a white male, approximately 5'8", wearing a light colored short jacket (interview of Burt by SA Christianson and Acklin 12/16/63). Burt watched as the man passed them and continued walking west toward Patton. As the man approached Tippit's patrol car, Tippit rolled down his passenger side car window and spoke to this man.

William Arthur Smith was with Burt at the time and described the same man seen by he and Burt as "a white male, about 5'7" to 5'8", 20 to 25 years of age, 150-160, a white shirt, light BROWN jacket and dark pants (interview of Smith by SA Ward and Basham 12/13/63). Both Burt and Smith watched this unknown man as he walked toward Patton, approached the squad car, spoke with Tippit, and then shot him. (emphasis mine)

Jack Roy Tatum was driving east on 10th St. As he "approached the squad car, he noticed this young white male with both hands in the pockets of his zippered jacket leaning over the passenger side of the squad car". "It looked as if Oswald and Tippit were talking to each other. There was conversation. It did seem peaceful." Tatum swore "he had on a light colored zipper jacket, dark trousers and what looked like a t-shirt on". He also remembered Oswald "as having dark hair, dark eyes of medium build and around 5'10". At the point where Tatum drove slowly past Tippit's squad car, he was less than 10 ft from Oswald. Tatum did not see Oswald wearing a brown shirt, just a white T-shirt (HSCA --- Moriarty 2/1/78)

Ted Callaway described Oswald to DPD Officer HW Summers as "white male, 27, 5'11",165 lbs, black wavy hair, fair complected, wearing LIGHT GRAY Eisenhower type jacket, dark trousers and a white shirt" (CE 705, pg 27). When interviewed many years later, Callaway again said "he had on a WHITE Eisenhower type jacket and a white T-shirt" --- again no brown shirt, just a white T-shirt.(emphasis mine)

Mary Brock was the next person who identified Oswald's clothing. She said Oswald was wearing "light clothing, a light colored jacket and with his hands in his pocket" (interview of Brock by SA Kesler and Mitchem 1/22/64).

FBI statement of Mary Brock:

"The man wearing a WHITE shirt AND jacket hurried west on Jefferson and passed the Ballew Texaco Station. Mary Brock said an individual with a "light complexion" and wearing "light clothing" walked passed her at a fast pace with his hands in his pockets." (emphasis mine)

DPD dispatch 1:22 PM: Last seen about the 300 block East Jefferson. He's a white male about 30 5'8". Black hair, slender, wearing a WHITE jacket, white shirt and dark slacks.

DPD dispatch 1:33 PM: w/m/30 5'8", very slender build, black hair, a WHITE jacket, white shirt and dark slacks. (emphasis mine)

The police broadcast of Tippit's killer described him as a "white male, 5'8", black hair, wearing a white jacket and shirt." Oswald passed Hardy's Shoe store and slipped into to the Texas Theater. Julia Postal, the cashier, called the police. Police broadcasts reported the suspect in the balcony of the theater. When the police arrived, they were told by a "young female", probably Julia Postal, that the man was in the balcony. All policemen who entered the front of the theater went to the balcony. They were questioning a young man when more police entered the main floor of the theater from the rear entrance.

They were looking for a man in a white shirt and white jacket in the balcony, but they arrested a man on the main floor wearing a brown shirt. Captain Westbrook told the officers to "get him out of here as fast as you can and don't let anybody see him". Harvey Oswald was brought out the front entrance, placed in a police car and escorted to jail.

The police homicide report of Tippit's murder read "suspect was later arrested in the balcony of the Texas neater at 231 W. Jefferson". Detective Stringfellow's report states "Oswald was arrested in the balcony of the Texas Theater". But the man in the balcony was not arrested. He may have been escorted out the rear of the theater and driven away in a police car. Bernard Haire, owner of a hobby shop two doors from the theater, witnessed this event. For 25 years Mr. Haire and other witnesses thought they had witnessed the arrest of Oswald at the rear of the Texas Theater. Who was this person if not Lee Oswald? Three police officers were directed to obtain the names and addresses of all theater patrons, but no list exists. There is no police report, no record of arrest, nor mention of any person taken from the rear of the theater.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Did they gather the names of theater witnesses?

Mr. Ball.

Were you the senior officer there?

Mr. Westbrook.

Possibly--I don't think there was another captain there. There was a lieutenant and then I ordered all of them to be sure and take the names of everyone in the theatre at that time.

Mr. Ball.

We have asked for names of people in the theatre and we have only come up with the name of George Applin. Do you know of any others?

Mr. Westbrook.

He possibly might have been the only one in there at the time the rest of them might have been working there, because I'm sure at that time of day you would have more employees than you would have patrons.

Mr. Ball.

You didn't take the names of any of the patrons?

Mr. Westbrook.

No, Sir.

Mr. Ely.

Yes; I have one. Captain, you mentioned that you had left orders for somebody to take the names of everybody in the theatre, and you also stated you did not have this list;

do you know who has it?

Mr. Westbrook.

No; possibly Lieutenant Cunningham will know, but I don't know who has the list.

From a FBI report:

Lieutenant CARL DAY of the Dallas Police Department furnished

a rifle slug which, according to his records, had come

from the residence of General EDWIN A . WALKER, 4811 Turtle Creek,

Dallas, Texas, on April 10, 1963, being contributed by Detective

D.G. Brown .

_-The slug was identified by a cross and the word, "DAY"

which Lieutenant DAY stated he had placed on the slug . He advised

that Detective D.G. Brown had been at the WALKER home and

had obtained the slug from an officer, whose identity he does

not know, but whose identity is known to Lieutenant CUNNINGHAM

of the Forgery Bureau of the Dallas Police Department .

So if you don't know something, blame it on Cunningham? Was he ever questioned by the WC? NO.

Out of twenty odd witnesses in the theater we are left with Evangelist Jack

Davis, and two other witness in the theater at the time, only because they testified, George Applin & John Gibson.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

P.S.: Dr Liquori certified Tippit dead at 1:15 PM. That was at Methodist Hospital! per R.A. Davenport's report (note he changed it from 1:00 to 1:15 by typing over the :00)

picture of changed report by Davenport*

Per E.E. Taylor report: I along with Lt. Cunningham and J.B. Toney remained at the theater and took the names and addresses of the occupants of the theater.

But several witnesses placed Oswald, wearing a brown shirt, in the Texas

Theater at 1:15, not at 10th and Patton. Theater concession operator

Butch Burroughs sold Oswald popcorn at 1:15. Dallas Evangelist Jack

Davis said Oswald was sitting next to him while the opening credits to

the movie were running--at 1:20 p.m. Perhaps some of the twenty four

theater patrons would have remembered Oswald, but a list of their names

and addresses, taken by Dallas Police, disappeared.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

4:45 PM At a Lineup for Helen Markham, Witness to Tippit Murder Oswald said:

"It isn't right to put me in line with these teenagers. . . . You know what you are doing, and you are trying to railroad me. . . . I want my lawyer. . . . You are doing me an injustice by putting me out there dressed different than these other men. . . . I am out there, the only one with a bruise on his head. . . . I don t believe the lineup is fair, and I desire to put on a jacket similar to those worn by some of the other individuals in the lineup. . . . All of you have a shirt on, and I have a T-shirt on. I want a shirt or something. . . . This T-shirt is unfair." (what jackets did the others "cops" have on, what color?) Why would Oswald want to wear a jacket if he had discarded the one he was wearing when he shot Tippit? And why didn't police facilitate the identification process by making him wear the "WHITE" jacket in the lineups?

In the end there was "No jacket", "One jacket", "Two jackets" and was "Black", "Brown", "Tan", "Blue", "Light Blue", "Grey", "Blue-Gray" and lastly "White."

As the saying goes "The FBI always gets their man" no matter what he is wearing,4

or what color................With all this, in addition to a broken chain of evidence,

the jacket cannot be considered evidence of Oswald's guilt in the killing of Officer

Tippit.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks to Steve Thomas, Ian Griggs, Joseph Backes, Todd Teachout and others for your research efforts as this did help me with this multiple-multi-colored jacket phenomenon.

Ed

"Now facts are all very well but they have their little weaknesses. Americans often assume that Facts are solid, concrete (and discrete) objects like marbles, but they are very much not. Rather they are subtle essences, full of mystery and metaphysics, that change their color and shape, their meaning, according to the context in which they are presented. They must always be treated with skepticism, and the standard of judgment should not be how many Facts one can mobilize in support of a position but how skillfully one discriminates between them, how objectively one uses them to arrive at Truth, which is something different from, though not unrelated to, the Facts."—Macdonald, Critique of the Warren Report, Esquire, March 1965, p. 61.

other references-

1. Sugar with Leek, The Assassination Chain, p. 113.

2. CD 23, CE 2694, CD 853, cited in George Michael Evica, And We Are All Mortal: New Evidence and Analysis in the John F. Kennedy Assassination, (West Hartford, CT: University of Hartford, 1978), p. 112.

3. Canfield with Weberman, Coup d'état in America, pp. 50-52.

4. Kelly and Wearne, Tainting Evidence

post script:

The only thing I may have left out is the fiber evidence in the sleeves, BUT that does not say it was LHO's shirt in the jacket to the exclusion of all other shirts.

FBI Memo, Jevons to Conrad, 12-3-63. FBI RIF 124-10009-10499 is the one they sat on for 35 years. There has to be a real

problem with the fiber evidence for this to be buried.

After the blanket was lying next to the bag at DPD (contamination), who knows what went on with the jacket and shirt.

Looking at the DPD photo CE738 I would be more concerned if they did NOT find fibers from the blanket or the shirt on other evidence.

Debra Conway said:

"If the jacket doesn't fit...you must acquit.

I had to say it."

Deb

Gary K Meyers said:

Mabye it was made by a color blind tailor who couldn't measure

correctly.

Bill Cheslock said:

Ed,

I can comment on the fiber evidence that the

Commission tried to use against Oswald. After

FBI expert Paul Stombaugh testified, there was

no way that the WC could say that Oswald's shirt

was the one that left fibers in the butt of the

alleged assassination rifle, as the following exhcange

between Eisenberg and Stombaugh illustrates:

Stombaugh: "There is just no way at this time to be

able to positively state that a particular small group

of fibers came from a particular source, because there

just aren't enough microscopic characteristics present

in these fibers. We cannot say, 'yes these fibers came

from this shirt to the exclusion of all other shirts.' "

Eisenberg: "We appreciate your conservatism, but the

Commission, of course, has to make an estimate, and

what I am trying to find out is whether your conservatism,

whether your conclusions, reflect the inability to draw

mathematical determinations or conclusions, or reflect

your own doubts?"

Stombaugh: "No."

Eisenberg: "Can you tell us which that is?"

Stombaugh: "There is no doubt in my mind that these fibers

could have come from this shirt. There is no way, however,

to to eliminate the possibility of the fibers having come

from another identical shirt." (WCH IV, p. 88)

How's that, Ed, for a very vague argument that the

fibers taken from the butt of the rifle matched the shirt

that Oswald was alleged to have worn during the assassination?

Stombaugh could not, and would not state what Eisenberg

was desperately trying to get out of him; that the fibers

taken from the rifle butt exactly matched the shirt Oswald

was alleged to have been wearing during the shooting.

All Stombaugh could give Eisenberg was the FACT that the

fibers could have come from any amount of other shirts.

So much for the shirt fiber argument.

Bill C

Anthony Frank said:

"Excellent research, Ed. Domingo Benavides, who worked at "Dootch Motors" and who identified the wrong jacket, was a really great witness."

Belin - Taking you back to November 22, 1963, anything unusual happen that day?

Benavides - On the 22d?

Belin - 22d of November 1963?

Benavides - This would be embarrassing. Was that the day of the Assassination of the President?

Belin - Yes.

Benavides - I was thinking it was the 24th. Well, nothing except it seemed like a pretty nice day.

Belin - Do you remember what day of the week it was?

Benavides - I don't remember.

Belin - Do you remember the day that the President was assassinated?

Benavides - No.

Belin - Do you remember that he was assassinated in Dallas?

Benavides - Oh, yes; I remember this.

Belin - He was going south on Patton Street?

Benavides - Yes; do you know Dootch Motors?

Belin - Do I know Dootch Motors?

Benavides - Yes, sir.

Belin - Now, the first time that you saw him, what was his position?

Benavides - He was standing, the first time I saw him. The man that shot him?

Belin - Yes.

Belin - What color hair did he have?

Benavides - Oh, dark. I mean not dark.

Belin - Average complexion?

Benavides - No; a little bit darker than average.

Belin - My complexion?

Benavides - I wouldn't say that any more. I would say he is about your complexion, sir.

Benavides kept saying that the guy who shot Tippit looked like Belin, so Belin finally says, "I might say for the record, that I was not in Dallas on November 22, 1963."

Benavides was at the scene of the Tippit shooting because some guy "stalled this car in the middle of the street and asked me if I would fix it" and after Benavides went to get a carburetor part, he "forgot the number of the carburetor," so he went back and was driving by when Tippit got shot.

Tony

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thus ends the chameleon like qualities of the alleged assassins

coat.

>The forum software had created a duplicate post for some reason, thus I deleted it.<

Hi Bill,

I believe previewing your post alleviates this strange phenomenon.

Nix frame and 337

Please use the "click to view the full image"

Ed

Does anyone besides me think that the points I tried to make in this earlier post are more important than whether or not the person completely inside the red oval (n the upper of the two photos) with hands on hips is a man or a woman???

(FWIW, I think it's a man. lol )

--Thomas

If you wanted to discuss the other points why did you keep asking me who is a woman and who is a guy and nothing about whats in the jacket or how he maybe cuban, etc.,???

I don't mind speculating on gender but yes other things are more relevant. So don't complain when you are the one who messaged me twice about who is a guy or girl. LOL If you don't think its a female great.

Next.

Can we get back on topic about the jacket and what he has in it?

First is it a jacket? The back portion looks like a sleeve with a cuff.

Or maybe its a "blanket" he borrowed from Oswald.

He could be listening to something or just scratching.

Are the others he is talking to a group of workers, like Cabbies or Bus Drivers?

Ideas?

Ed

Weigman is a clock. He shot 36 unedited seconds of film from after the second shot. He ran to the knoll with his camera running. He is a gauge for when the Zman and Sitzman did what and when. Take a look.

If you start the Weigman film and time it it takes 36 seconds.

Many others have timed it not just me.

He started filming after the second shot was heard by him.

He gets out of the camera car and runs to the knoll with the camera (clock) running.

When he finishes he runs to the passing camera car and gets back in.

Believe me this is one thing I have looked at A LOT in trying to find Lem Johns in the plaza.

Okay if weigman is a clock and is only shooting 36 seconds of film the we know within a few seconds what and where everyone else is. As you can see he is to the knoll and shooting the Hesters(Mr and Mrs H) on the ground in 20 seconds, no gaps. if you look at the other photo beside it (arrow "same") you will see Zapruder and Sitzman are off the pedestal.

The next image "25 sec" is Z and Sitz walking towards the Hesters, perhaps to talk to them or tell them something, But anyways they do not go all the way to them as Weigman is filming them and Z isn't in the frame. As you mentioned Mr. H gets up hugs the column for a few seconds and then Weigman turns away to film the Newmans.

So if Mr. H gets up while Weigman is filming, it is in the first 20 seconds of the last rifle shot, they (the Hesters) are on the ground in that pose.

Mr H does not get back down on the ground with her, agreed. He (Mr H) goes to the cupola,

and she follows behind in a few seconds. agreed. As he hugs the column she (Mrs H) is getting up to go to him. Thats when Weigman turns the camera on the Newmans.

After a few frames of the Newmans (4 seconds), Weigman pans the street and back to the area where the H's WERE and we see the Chisms running Southwest to the sidewalk. So Weigman is facing North.

In my collage the image "weigman 30 sec" is when he is filming North (see Mrs Chism just entering the frame on the right) Just visible is Z or Mr H in the cupola (the sign hides Mrs H).

In my collage the image "Weigman 36 seconds" he has finished filming and is starting to head for the passing camera car.

Mr Z is in the cupola and Mrs H is almost in. all this happens within the first minute after the second shot is fired.

Ed

Thomas,

Do you see the lady slightly forward and right of him with her hands on her hip in the top image?

Ed, for some reason the image doesn't appear. Could you check, please?

Sorry the automatic reduction washed out the text, so I was editing it while you were trying to take a peek. Its fixed now.

Robin -"Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? The Shadow knows!"-From old radio show "The Shadow"

John,

>Sitzman is a bit waffly about what exactly she did and when she went in to the cupola. She says she went first down hill where she spoke to a FBI guy, the went uphill and behind, no into, hangon a minute, was it in or behind, anyway, after some bla bla ended up in the pergola at some point.

Altgens 8 shows Zap leaning against the place he took the film from, apparently looking in the direction he thought the shot came from. There is a gap in everyones timing to account for. Sitzman didn't go straight into the cupola.<

Weigman is a clock. He shot 36 unedited seconds of film from after the second shot. He ran to the knoll with his camera running. He is a gauge for when the Zman and Sitzman did what and when. Take a look.

Moved from John Dolvas "Shot From The North" thread:

Ed,

Great post. Although I can't make out a "couple" in the second photo, I do want to thank you for posting both photos at the same time. I for one never realized that the same guy is in both of them. In the first photo, not only does it look like he's carrying something sizeable and rigid under his jacket, but there seems to be something sticking up out of his right rear pocket which is concealed by his untucked-in shirt, and he looks like he might even be talking into or listening to a walkie-talkie/radio in his left hand! Speaking of untucked-in shirts, I think this is the only guy I've seen a photo of who was in Dealy Plaza right before or right after the asassination whose shirt wasn't tucked in. Maybe back in '63 in conservative Dallas, it was considered to be in "bad taste" or evidence of an uncultured upbringing to wear one's shirt untucked-in, especially in the presence of the President and his beautiful wife? If my theory is correct, then maybe the only reason this guy was walking around with his shirt untucked-in, at the risk of appearing rather boorish, was to conceal something, perhaps something very much like that which is easy to discern, as pointed out by Ron Ecker in another thread, in the photos of "Dark Complected Man" (DCM) walking down the sidewalk after sitting next to "Umbrella Man" on the curb, talking into a walkie-talkie/radio as he sits there looking down Elm Street after the "hit." Hmmm... If this guy in the two photos you posted was a conspirator, then maybe he and the guys he's shown talking with in the second photo aren't American "Negroes" after all, but dark-complected Cubans instead? Or even better, maybe he's "mingling" for a few minutes with some Afro-Americans in order to blend in and, so to speak, "disappear?"

It's interesting to note that the bottoms of the guy's jeans(?) legs seem to be rolled up, making impromptu cuffs as if he's really poor or a real "hick." Maybe his controller told him to do that do that, in order to "complement" the goucheness of his untucked-in shirt, thereby making the concealing of the thing in his back pocket somehow less obvious???

Are these two the black couple that was seen by Sitzman having lunch on the bench by the cupola/retaining wall.

Perhaps they are actually Cuban not African-Americans.

What is in his jacket?

Thomas,

Thanks, If John doesn't mind we can continue here, or better yet I should take this to its own thread.

(see "Cubans Packing In The Plaza?")

Its only fair to Mr. Dolva since he provided me the same courtesy.

John,

Yeah, I just know it as a cupola or shelter#3 from the "locals" and the Roberdeau diagram.

It should be remembered that Zapruder, Sitzman and Hesters moved into the shelter (cupola) quickly after. Could the "Cop" maybe gone around the pergola to the east and by cupola #4? This after running into Smith and/or Summers. Bothun 4 shows someone going that way.

Once together with the woman, he closes up the trench coat and she gives him the Generic Police Badged Hat(Highway Patrol) for the getaway.

Robin,

Great shots of the shed, interesting stuff as always!

More after Santa gets through wrapping presents,

Ed

Hello Michael,

[They surely wouldnt be wearing an "Iowa Police" badge and try to represent a Dallas patrolman!] Anyone from the Dallas area, or surrounding areas, would probably know what an area badge looked like, or resembled. From most views, there didnt seem to be many people at that time who wasnt related, knew, or werent personal friends with someone from the Dallas PD. Im sure most people knew [maybe not exactly] what a Dallas PD badge looked like, or what it closely resembled.

Let me clarify a bit. The Iowa hat badge represents a common style of badge, I'm not saying the Hat Badge Man (HBM) is an Iowa officer.

These badges all are the same style or outline, that was the first step in ID'ing the HBM.

Now if we agree the style matches then we can find out what Departments used that style of Hat Badge in 1963 Texas.

It may be a Dept. Of Public Safety device for Highway Patrolmen's Hats.

You are correct that the parts need to match, i.e., hat badge-credentials-uniform-etc. That is why he is not DPD, because the Hat badge does not match the DPD Hat Devices (badges).

The Iowa badge was just a guide to get everyone looking for pictures of uniformed individuals with that emblem design on their caps. If we couldn't define what the badge looked like then we could never tell where he worked.

Hello Jim,

Here is the seizure man.

"Jerry Belknap a Dallas Morning News employee had a seizure near the TSBD- THE NEW YORKER

November 30, 1992 by Edward Jay Epstein

Since the spectator who suffered an epileptic seizure fifteen to twenty minutes before the motorcade's arrival was not identified by the Warren report, Jim Garrison had the hypothesis that the man was part of paramilitary group in charge of diverting the attention with a simulated seizure.

Actually, that man was Jerry Boyd Belknap, a Dallas Morning News employee. He had taken medication to cure a head wound he had suffered in a car accident when a child. He was rushed to Parkland hospital in an ambulance, but left the hospital without receiving any treatment. Later, Belknap declared he had left Parkland because of Kennedy's arrival shortly after he was admitted."

The only testimony I remember was:

Mr. Liebeler.

Now after you received your instructions at 8:45, what did you do?

Mr. Smith.

I proceeded to the intersection of Elm and Houston, and it was about 9:50 or 10 o'clock when I was on the corner there. At approximately 11:50 or 12 o'clock, there was a white male that had an epileptic seizure on the esplanade on Houston Street between Main and Elm. Well, I went down to see if any assistance was needed, and I stayed there until the white male was loaded into an ambulance and sent to a hospital. Then I proceeded back to my assignment.

Mr. Liebeler.

Were there any other officers there in connection with this fellow that had the epileptic fit?

Mr. Smith.

Yes; there was one more. He was a radio patrolman.

Mr. Liebeler.

Do you remember his name?

Mr. Smith.

I don't remember his name. I swear, I was trying to think of it before this even.

Mr. Liebeler.

He was a radio patrolman? You mean he was driving a motorcycle or had a car?

Mr. Smith.

No; he was assigned, I think, if I am not mistaken, I think he was assigned to Main and Houston, and he was down there with the man when arrived at the scene.

Mr. Liebeler.

So you called an ambulance, or an ambulance was called and this man was taken away, and you went back to the corner of Elm and Houston Streets?

Mr. Smith.

Yes.

Mr. Liebeler.

How many officers were assigned at Elm and Houston?

Mr. Smith.

Three of us.

Mr. Liebeler.

Who were the other two men?

Mr. Smith.

W. E. Barnett, and E. L. Smith. I think that is his initials. I know it is another Smith boy anyway.

Mr. Liebeler.

How did you station yourself when you got there?

Mr. Smith.

Just after we got the epileptic seizure en route to the hospital, I hadn't gotten back to the corner but just a few minutes until the motorcade was coming, so I stationed myself on Elm Street in the middle from the southeast curb of Elm and Houston and held traffic up.

Not that it didn't happen just it is not in the record. Anyone else know of any nurses that were in the plaza?

Ed

Here is an enhancement of what you posted, treated with Photoshop's Shadows and Highlights filter, Levels, then Smart Sharpen.

The image was too low resolution to be able to bring out any more detail than this on the original (center) image, but I think it has brought out sufficiently more to make it worth posting:

Hello Ashton,

Thank you. That did make some details stand out. It seems that even with a better original it would still only show "Police" as the state lettering is so small. I'll still wait for some contacts to view your enhancement before shelving this for a while(till Boxing day).

Ed

here is larger image of hat badge.

Victor Klein, The Badgemaster wrote me to confirm;

"Thats a very generic style used in the 60's. Unfortunately no one produces this style badge any more so it would be a matter of waiting for one to surface."

Thats good, at least it is not unique to Iowa, but bad because it could be from anywhere around Texas.

That is the style though.

Ed

This is an old Iowa State Police Police Officers hat with the badge still attached. It is very similar.

It overlays exactly. It is just an older design year, likely 50's.

Well what does everyone think?