Jump to content
The Education Forum

Sean Murphy

Members
  • Content Count

    384
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Everything posted by Sean Murphy

  1. Sean, was any reason given for blocking the discussion? I am curious now if there are other topics that have been blocked. Richard, No, it's as if the topic doesn't exist. On the (very) rare occasions Prayer Man does get a passing mention, it is strictly in the context of a Cinque-focused discussion. The policy is clear: force an association of Prayer Man with Cinque's nonsense. The editors of Pravda ca. 1975 would have been proud of McAdams's performance.
  2. After several weeks of canvassing hardline Lone Nut Theory believers over on Duncan's forum for credible alternatives to Oswald as Prayer Man, the results are as follows: They've got nothing. They've thrown the world and his brother at that doorway, and not a single suggestion has come close to holding up under close inspection. It started with Steve Barber taking one look at Prayer Man and identifying him confidently as Billy Lovelady. And that about set the standard intellectually for the WC defenders' subsequent suggestions. ** Meanwhile over on alt.assassination.jfk, Lone Nut propaga
  3. David, the most significant words in Truly's 11/22 statement are: "... and he accompanied the officer into the front of the building. They saw no one there..." Why is Truly even telling us this? Because the 'no one' he and the officer saw there, in the front of the building, is in custody. And he's talking.
  4. The story told by Baker is clear and maximally damning of the 'man': He and Truly were coming up the stairs together, Baker leading. As they were reaching the third or fourth floor (i.e. both of them just reaching the landing--not Truly way ahead already halfway up to the next floor), Baker (being in front) was the first to spot a man walking away from the stairway up which Baker and Truly were running. The man had clearly been on his way down when he had heard Baker & Truly running up, so he had turned tail and started walking away from the stairway. But not quickly enough--Baker saw him
  5. David, Truly first told the basic second-floor lunchroom story late 11/22. It was, as you note, markedly different to the story told in Marrion Baker's affidavit given several hours earlier. And also markedly different to the first-floor Oswald-officer encounter everyone else had been talking about that day. Sean - can you please cite the source for that... WHO did he tell this too and HOW was it recorded... Here it is, David.
  6. Tommy, The too-good-to-be-true coincidence of Baker's and Brennan's 11/22 descriptions is indeed troubling. I believe Baker went back to City Hall that afternoon and told his superiors the truth: he and the building manager went upstairs and saw and found nothing and nobody. This caused consternation, so Baker was given the 'Oswald' description (as well as the detail as to 'tan jacket', which had come in either from Tippit witnesses or from someone at the Depository imperfectly recalling Oswald's tan shirt [CE151]) and instructed to go on the record with a phoney story about intercepting an
  7. David, Truly first told the basic second-floor lunchroom story late 11/22. It was, as you note, markedly different to the story told in Marrion Baker's affidavit given several hours earlier. And also markedly different to the first-floor Oswald-officer encounter everyone else had been talking about that day.
  8. Yes, and I think Truly had genuine grounds for reporting Oswald to the police. He had seen this man apparently on his way out of the building before the smoke from the shots had even cleared. And when he came back downstairs from the roof with Baker, he noticed that he was indeed gone. Very suspicious haste on this employee's part to leave the building. So Truly reported Oswald's name to Lumpkin & Fritz as someone who might be involved somehow. But Oswald as the actual sixth-floor triggerman? The very furthest thing from Truly's mind. When it became clear to Truly later that evening
  9. Chris, the guy in Altgens is Billy Lovelady. Oswald cannot be seen in Altgens, for he is standing slightly behind and to the right of Lovelady--as shown in the Wiegman film. The Altgens Doorman issue has been one big decades-long distraction. It did however throw the FBI into a panic on the evening of the assassination. Oswald in custody was putting himself "out front" at the time of the shooting, and the presence of an Oswald-resembling man on the steps in Altgens seemed to be bearing him out. So they made a beeline to Billy Lovelady's home and, in Lovelady's own words, gave a sigh of re
  10. Either Prayer Man is Lee Oswald or he is a non-TSBD person. The first option makes sense: Oswald, being a TSBD man, emerges from the vestibule to the front steps just as the President is passing the building. At this time everyone else's attention is riveted on the motorcade, so the presence back in the shadows over on the west side of nondescript grunt Oswald goes unremarked. The second option does not make sense: A stranger to the building cannot emerge from the first floor vestibule. They must walk up the front steps in full view of everyone already there and, instead of sticking out li
  11. Sean, as part of this scenario (last line bold-faced above), there is an issue which needs to be addressed. The back walls of each elevator were 3/4 walls, with a wire mesh on the remaining 1/4 to the roof. Both elevators were in a single, open air shaft. There was no barrier between them. This means occupants in one elevator could look into the shaft and see the other elevator. Truly certainly would have observed the descending East elevator passing them as the West elevator was ascending. In fact, it would also be difficult for Baker not to have noticed. I am not saying this could
  12. Marvin Johnson's account of what Baker told him as he gave his affidavit within hours of the assassination is suggestive of a more physical--and realistic--confrontation I'm lost again, Sean. Who is Marvin Johnson again? Robert, he's the DPD detective who took Baker's affidavit at City Hall that day.
  13. Marvin Johnson's account of what Baker told him as he gave his affidavit within hours of the assassination is suggestive of a more physical--and realistic--confrontation
  14. French Le Figaro correspondent Leo Sauvage was puzzled by press references to Oswald's sipping a coke when the officer saw him. So he asked Roy Truly about it in January 1964. Here's what Truly told him: “From where I stood, I couldn’t see if Oswald held something in his hand” (The Oswald Affair, 1966, p.30). As we know, Truly will change his tune for the WC appearance a couple of months later: Mr. BELIN. All right. Could you see whether or not Lee Harvey Oswald had anything in either hand? Mr. TRULY. I noticed nothing in either hand. Mr. BELIN. Did you see both of his hands? Mr. TRULY.
  15. According to James Bookhout's solo interrogation report, written just after Oswald's demise, Oswald told Fritz "he was on the second floor of said building, having just purchased a Coca-cola from the soft-drink machine, at which time a police officer came into the room with pistol drawn and asked him if he worked there". Fritz himself, in his Interrogation Report for the WC, will back Bookhout's recollection: "I asked Oswald where he was when the police officer stopped him. He said he was on the second floor drinking a coca cola when the officer came in." Both Bookhout and Fritz are clear: O
  16. Dougherty's 11/22 affidavit says nothing about the use of an elevator: On Dec 18 Dougherty does mention his use of an elevator, but only in relation to his return to the sixth floor after the shooting: Seems to me Dougherty, prior to his April 8 WC testimony, has been telling authorities he came down from the fifth floor using the stairs. Hence Redlich's implicit dismissal in his March 25 memo of Dougherty as the person who brought the west elevator off the fifth floor. And hence, one suspects, the disastrously incoherent (because coached) nature of the 'admission' Dougherty is to give
  17. Tommy, the point is rather that Truly has only the day before handed the WC a simple solution to the west elevator problem: Jack Dougherty. Yet Redlich seems to be taking it as read that Truly's solution is a non-starter. Why? Question: when did Jack Dougherty first identify himself as the person who took the west elevator off the fifth floor just after the shots? Did he do so at any point prior to his own April 8th appearance before the WC?
  18. Why is Redlich's memo is so revealing? 1. Redlich writes that "it is possible... that a worker moved the west elevator either up or down from the fifth floor" while Baker and Truly were ascending by the stairway. 2. Redlich then notes that "we don't know the name of any such worker" and that "none of the investigations appears to have turned up anyone who admits to being on the west elevator at this time". 3. Yet Roy Truly, just the day before (March 24), has offered the name of just such an employee: Jack Dougherty. 4. Perhaps Redlich is unaware of or has forgotten Truly's mention of Doug
  19. Yet another important archival discovery from Richard Gilbride over at Reopen Kennedy Case http://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t516-the-mystery-of-the-west-elevator#5134 This text bears very close reading. (My emphases in underlined red below.) March 25, 1964 MEMORANDUM TO: Messrs. Ball, Belin, Craig FROM: Norman Redlich SUBJECT: The Mystery of the West Elevator This memorandum results from a discussion between Mr. Belin and myself on March 24, following Roy Truly's testimony. Roy Truly has testified that when he and Patrolman Baker ran to the rear of the first floor, neither el
  20. Watch fourth-floor employee Sandra Styles talk to camera about her experiences that day. http://www.travelchannel.com/video/jfk-assassination-witness Sandra, in stating that she neither saw nor heard anyone else coming down the stairs, says it's possible that Oswald came down before her and Vicki Adams or after them: "He could have been behind us, he could have been ahead of us, I have no idea". He could have been behind us... That's a very interesting comment for Sandra to make, for it backs up the Vicki Adams claim that the two ladies went to the stairs very soon after the shots.
  21. Sean, You're right of course. I just listened to it again (before I read your reply, actually, because of this very issue), and the reporter asked Oswald, "Were you in the building?," not "Were you inside the building?". Then I hurried back to my post to correct it, but darn it you'd already caught my mistake! My bad. Regardless, is it fair for us to conclude that, although Oswald was not technically 'inside" the building, he was still somehow "in" it (or he thought he was somehow "in" it) because he was, after all, standing just outside the front door and underneath part of the building?
  22. Good ears, Richard: it does sound like the last words are indeed "or out". However I'm not sure about "inside". Can't for the life of me work out what it is, but it sounds like "In the st[???] or out". Or possibly: "Either st[???] or out". Since we'll never know for sure anything / everything Oswald told his interrogators, it's a shame he didn't yell out to the reporters in the hallway "I was right outside the front door!" when asked, "Were you inside the building at the time?" --Tommy It's a shame Oswald wasn't asked, "Were you inside the building at the time?".
  23. Three interesting 11/23 exchanges between Jesse Curry and reporters in the hall: 1. A reporter asks Curry if Oswald has "admitted that he was in the building at the time the shots were fired". Curry says "Yes" but then, as though thinking twice about this answer, follows up with a more qualified response: "Well, we know he couldn't deny that, we have witnesses." REPORTER: "But he did deny it, didn't he?" CURRY: "He denies everything." ** 2. Q: Did you say, Chief, that a policeman had seen him in the building? CURRY: Yes Q: After the shot was fired? CURRY: Yes Q: Why didn’t he arre
  24. Good ears, Richard: it does sound like the last words are indeed "or out". However I'm not sure about "inside". Can't for the life of me work out what it is, but it sounds like "In the st[???] or out". Or possibly: "Either st[???] or out".
  25. A startling discovery. Well done, Sean. Bearing in mind that one of the tasks assigned to the HSCA photo panel was to examine the Altgen's photo and develop convincing evidence to identify the man in the doorway who bore a strong resemblance to Lee Oswald, it seems likely they would have studied all available film and photos of the entrance for the time frame just before and just after Altgens snapped his shot. That means the panel should have looked at the Couch film, Weigman, Darnell, Towner, in addition to Martin. And they would have been looking at originals, or very good copies. (Per
×
×
  • Create New...