Don Bailey

I have a couple of questions if you'd be so kind:

...

2. The Earlene Roberts statement of 11/29/63 concerning the patrol car that pulled up outside her home. In it she claimed the patrol car number was 207. Surely the fact that Jim Valentine was assigned that car and that Gerald Hill claims he went to the depository with Jim Valentine in that car creates another avenue of possibilities concerning Hill's involvement with the theatrical events in Oak Cliff from 1pm onwards? Especially as that car was then, supposedly, unoccupied from Valentine's and Hill's arrival at the TSBD until 3pm. ...

Earlene Roberts gave several numbers that she thought might've been on the car. It's very possible that she was either or both mistaken and/or confused: she was an elderly woman and blind in one eye, and she was questioned several times under some pressure from the police about what she did or didn't see. If she did see a police car that wasn't supposed to be there, it wouldn't be a wonder if she was intimidated ... something she might have felt even if the cops who interviewed her were vexed over the fact that they even had to spent time investigating the matter. As I recall, she testified to this effect.

That "investigation" was a farce to begin with. Once there was a number that could be focused upon, so it was to the exclusion of any other numbers. It was automatically exclusionary if an officer was driving (say) car #154, which didn't look even remotely like 207 or 209 or 109, inferring that said officer was not in the area. The trouble is that we know that no fewer than two other police cars were in Oak Cliff that didn't belong there during the period of time in question. The investigation was not open-ended to determine who was in that area, but rather closed-ended to investigate the whereabouts of only a limited number of vehicles.

As to Valentine's vehicle in particular, one very nearly gets the impression that there is a senior patrol officer assigned to act as a valet of sorts at all crime scenes, someone standing behind a portable lectern with a pegboard with hooks on which to hang the keys that officers dutifully checked in and out with him upon arriving and before leaving the scene. Does anyone imagine this to be so, that there was one sergeant who, in the immediate aftermath of an armed assault against the President of the United States, stood calmly around at some miniature "command post" where officers checked in before responding to the emergency? Remember, these guys rushed off to DP as soon as they got the news ....

The much more likely answer is that there was no such functionary at this particular time, and that in reality, all of the officers merely kept their keys either in their cars or on their persons, the former being the more likely. How else did, for example, Hill simply take off in Poe's car in Oak Cliff? Did they only have check-ins in downtown streets and leave the keys in the cars everywhere else? How, too, did so many officers depart DP when the "citizen call" came over the radio if they had to "check out" their keys from the sergeant on duty (who must've been a pretty harried man as that occurred: "hang onto your horses, I've got ten officers abandoning their posts ahead of you! You'll just have to wait your turn! Here we go: car 62!! Smith, that you? 207! Who wants 207? ...").

Talk about "other avenues of possibilities!" I think I'd call this one a "boulevard!"

Just off base a little but isn't this the same Officer Joe Poe that arrested the 3 tramps in DP?

What an honor it is to have you on the forum Mr. Lane, you are a hero of mine in this fight for the truth.

Question: What is your opinion on where Hunt and Sturgis were during the shooting?

I look forward to reading your new book!!!

Don

Hi Lee,

There were "No Parking" signs removed on Houston St. as seen in one of the pictures of the three hobos. Hicks was standing in the area of the removed sign.

Don

Could it be that a part of the bullet created the throat wound and most of the momentum went on to destroy the head?

Hi John.

Here's another item for consideration - the small entrance wound the lack of an entry given that the wound was a point of entry, and the absence of normal behavior [ballistics, physics, etc.] which have led some to outside-the-box thinking [generous way of putting it]. One more possibility - which would depend strongly on your perspective of the info provided to Garrison by Hicks. His account has a sign being removed - I think we've covered this before - not the actual Stemmons sign - but one of the associated road signs. We have only what Hicks said.

As Garrison would say here - can you point out where that was Hicks? Ayep. And you were standing right there, right? Ayep. And the suspicious individuals were .....right there - correct? Can you point that out - errrrrrrrrrrr....got it. Can you see where he pointed folks? Thanks Hicks.

So as opposed to assuming that Kennedy is shot in the throat intentionally - if you were to couple the location of such a sign as potentially being one alongside the Stemmons Freeway sign [thanks Jim] - what you could end up with may look like a botched xxxx that clipped a roadsign - or even passed through it - resulting in a reduced velocity, and a reduction to the size of the round - being fired from somewhere back in the parking area - if the sign in question was associated with the Stemmons sign [not necessarily] and if you credit Jim Hicks.

Just a thought.

The Bell frames show one brake light luminating under the underpass, this indicates a motorcycle stopping next to the lead car.

http://i308.photobucket.com/albums/kk351/J...ngunderpass.jpg

Don

Credit Bernice. ( Cook / Cooper ) Film

Sitzman and the Hesters seen standing behind the motorcycle.

Thank you Robin for the pictures. Is there a full film clip available from the Zapruder film of Sitzman and the Hesters?

The picture shows Mrs. Hester is standing next to the TSBD and she is holding what looks like a large white purse...this may explain what looks a sign that she is holding during the shooting.

Don

Has anyone done a photo study of the parked cars behind the picket fence?

How many were there at the time?

Can you read any license plates from the photos?

What cars moved immediately after the assassination?

Have the owners of any of the cars/trucks been indentified?

BK

Well, Chauncey Holt's (or I should say Licavoli's) Oldsmobile stationwagon was ther untill the next day, for he had Michael Whitlock pick it up.

Wim,

That doesn't answer my question.

Has anyone done a photo study of the vehicles in the lot behind the picket fence?

And thanks for the photos Jack,

BK

Bill,

The attached drawing is from Sam Holland’s description of the area behind the picket fence.

Enhancements to the diagram provided by: Sam McClune.

Don

It appears to me that Pamela has hybristophilia syndrome.

Jack

Who gets to play Wim in the movie?

BK

Ashton Kutcher, maybe?

In my many

talks with Jean, she steadfastly and uniformly insisted that both she and

Mary STEPPED INTO THE STREET as the limo passed.

Jack

Well, Jack ... in my many talks with Jean Hill, she always said that she was not in the street when the car passed her. I want to refresh your memory and remind you that Jean Hill appeared on Black Op Radio and was specifically asked by a caller who asked if she was in the street and when and Jean point blank told the caller that she had stepped into the street when JFK came onto Elm, but had gotten back up over the curb BEFORE the first shot was ever fired.

Bill Miller

Lest the unwary be fooled, Jean despised Gary Mack, Dave Perry, Bill Miller and their ilk.

Jack

Thanks Jack, from my own experience I now understand why she despised that trio.

Don

Thanks Chris,

In the bottom picture you posted, the two center window openings on the second floor are inconsistent with the window openings during the aftermath in the Hughes film and the Murray photo at 12:43. These inconsistencies in the window openings have always boggled my mind when reviewing the aftermath films and photos of the Records Building.

Don

The Murray photograph was taken around 12:43, more than enough time for the assassins to escape. The windows are also closed in the photo.

In the Hughes film near the end in the part where the people are running towards the grassy knoll, you see the two center windows are still open… one open all the way and one open partially. You see the two windows open the same way at the beginning of the Hughes film.

It doesn’t make sense for someone to watch the parade with the windows open then shut the windows to watch the aftermath.

The people seen in the window could possibly be part of a clean-up crew… the power of Pine-Sol will make it smell like someone just shot a Christmas tree.

Don

Very interesting topic Robin!

Bernice: Where did you get the cropped picture of the lady and baby with her back to the camera? The full photo may show running man nearby.

Attached is a better close-up of the Willis photo captured from the Groden video.

Don

Bernice: The Shaw & Harris research is something that I’ve never heard of… can you point me in the direction of where I can find a book or documents on their research?

Robin: The photo from Groden’s book was taken in the 70’s or later. No need to believe that it was taken right after the assassination.

FYI, the 2nd floor window CRB office photograph that I posted shows the Probate Court No. 2.

Don

The attached photo was something that was found on the Internet showing a view from a County Records Building window looking out towards Elm.

Have you ever examined the bullet holes in the skull, despite what others say?? The rear of the skull shows a bullet entrance in the back of the skull, shot from the vicinity of the 2nd floor CRB.

Don

Gary Mack sent a message informing me about a tree blocking the view of a shot from the 2nd floor CRB. So I guess we should call it quits with this new information… NOT.

The Texas Live Oak on the southern part of Elm in 1963 had openings between the lower branches making it possible for a shot from the 2nd floor CRB.

The attached photo shows the tree and windows view from a higher level near the area of the head shot point of impact from the 2nd floor CRB shooter, also seen in the z-312 frame.

Don

Some of the other witnesses to the shooter on the 2nd floor of the County Records Building were never heard from again or were made to look like a participant in the conspiracy.

Jim Hicks, the man who stood on the west side of Houston across from the CRB gave his statement at the Orleans Parish Grand Jury Trial on 01-11-68:

GARRISON: Where were you standing Jim?

HICKS: Right in here approximately. The shots seemed to me like they came over the top of my head. The sign that was here was approximately here.

GARRISON: How long did it take before they removed the sign?

HICKS: It was within thirty minutes.

Beers photographed the removed signs Hicks spoke about around 2:30 when the three hobos are marched through Dealey Plaza.

A few of the people standing on the north side of Elm are people I’d like to speak with but there is no record of their identities. In the Altgens 6 photo, you see 3 women looking away from the limo that just passed by… 2 of the 3 women together are looking up in the direction of the 2nd floor of the CRB. It is my opinion these women observed the shooter in the CRB.

Don

When was the city bus transfer holder invented? Back in the 60’s the bus transfers were held in a stack of 50 or so in a tear-off box next to the driver… no need to ask the driver for a transfer.

Don

It’s amazing to see that others have an interest in this topic and have studied the 2nd floor CRB shooter location. Thanks to everyone for the pictures and information.

Lee: The people in that office said they did not work there in 1963 and as far as they knew their office has always been the same office with the 2 center windows. It has always been my belief a silencer was used at this location. When you view the Willis close-up it shows 2 people in the right center window and an arm out the left center window.

Ronald Fischer worked in the Records Building and told the WC this interesting piece of advice from his boss:

Mr. FISCHER - Oh, about---well, let's see. We got off for lunch at a quarter of twelve and Mr. Lynn, our boss, said that we could take go ahead and go on down the street after we got through with lunch, in other words, don't come back to the office after lunch. Just go on down the street and watch the parade. Everybody was due back after the parade was over.

IMO, this verbal memo to stay out of the building was passed on to all of the employees so they can allow a shooter team to enter the building, set up, shoot and escape undetected.

Don

For those of you that have asked the question: "Was there a shooter on the 2nd floor of the County Records Building?" I say yes there were at least 2 shots fired from one of the two windows on the 2nd floor. After reading Hugh McDonald’s book, “Appointment in Dallas” it peaked my interest in the possibility of a shooter on the 2nd floor and noticed in some of the films and pictures that both of the windows are open with someone waving outside of the right window. In 1993, I sent a team of investigators to take pictures from inside of this office on the 2nd floor and it turns out to be a small office space occupied by two people with both windows in this small work area. (See attached photo)

My opinion of the autopsy photos shows two wounds to Kennedy that seem to have come from the 2nd floor of the Records Building, his back wound and the first shot to his head.

Don

Like this guy Don?

Duncan

That's the Dal-Tex shooter, not to be confused with the County Records Building Shooter.

Don

For those of you that have asked the question: "Was there a shooter on the 2nd floor of the County Records Building?" I say yes there were at least 2 shots fired from one of the two windows on the 2nd floor. After reading Hugh McDonald’s book, “Appointment in Dallas” it peaked my interest in the possibility of a shooter on the 2nd floor and noticed in some of the films and pictures that both of the windows are open with someone waving outside of the right window. In 1993, I sent a team of investigators to take pictures from inside of this office on the 2nd floor and it turns out to be a small office space occupied by two people with both windows in this small work area. (See attached photo)

My opinion of the autopsy photos shows two wounds to Kennedy that seem to have come from the 2nd floor of the Records Building, his back wound and the first shot to his head.

Don

Please understand Chris, this is my version of the DPD dictabelt Track 1 recording of the shots. If you look at the audio waveform starting at 3:43 you'll see changes that are not consistent with the motorcycle sounds up to that point. From 3:43 to 5:14, Channel 1 becomes a circus of events that do not make sense, when you actually listen for gunfire on the track recording you'll hear it in different parts, what I did is edit the gunfire from the recording and piece them together within a time of about 7 seconds.

Don

In the B/W image below, could it be the same woman in blue who can seen in the Dorman frame standing next to Rosemary Willis.

They both have short sleeve dresses, are holding a camera in there hand,and appear to have a very similar appearance.

Those are two different women Robin, the woman running in Dorman is wearing a mutli-colored shirt with a sleeve length above the elbow, the lady in the B/W image has on a single color shirt that has a sleeve length beyond the elbow.

Sounds as if the answer is a resounding 'NO.'

I am satisfied that the 'rifle' seen is a DPD shotgun, and I also feel pretty strongly that the man seen at the left taking a photo in the DCA film is none other than Jay Skaggs.

Someone pointed out to me that this individual has some serious scars on his neck - I would imagine that this would be helpful in identification. Perhaps he is simply a witness - he certainly appears to have the interest of the police.

Thanks to Sean Murphy who did a nice job on the spot for the plaid shirt man on the grass in Cancellare.

- lee

As always - if someone wants to be anonymous - send me an email to lforman23@comcast.net - something is with this guy and I would like to know what.

Lee, what causes those very strange, even suspiciously phony(?!) shadows on the man's face?! Very strange, indeed....

His attire does seem to match in all of the posted photos... white pants, dark jacket with a plaid shirt and wearing a beret.

The attached MP3 file is my version of the shots in Dealey Plaza taken from the DPD dictabelt recording from Channel 1 on 11-22-63. The dictabelt recording was edited at some point to include the sounds of a moving motorcycle. With a few edits to eliminate the moving motorcycle sounds you start with a radio broadcast, “Alright Jack” then a few seconds later a pop like a firecracker, a few seconds pass then a volley of shots continues within a 4 second period. The volley of shots came from different weapons at different locations including the distinctive sounds of a high-powered rifle. The recording ends with a voice saying, “Sorry Jack.”

The original dictabelt recordings are here:

http://www.nap.edu/html/JFK_audio/

Don

(Edited)

This post has been revised....

The attached MP3 file is my version of the shots in Dealey Plaza taken from the DPD dictabelt recording from Channel 1 on 11-22-63. The dictabelt recording was edited at some point to include the sounds of a moving motorcycle. With a few edits to eliminate the moving motorcycle sounds you start with a radio broadcast, “Alright Jack” then a few seconds later a pop like a firecracker, a few seconds pass then a volley of shots continues within a 4 second period. The volley of shots came from different weapons at different locations including the distinctive sounds of a high-powered rifle. The recording ends with a voice saying, “Sorry Jack.”

The original dictabelt recordings are here:

http://www.nap.edu/html/JFK_audio/

Don

(Edited)

dealeyplazashots.mp3