Maggie Jarvis

Geometry was always my favourite. As I have been teaching some maths to a Year 7 class this year it has been really good to dabble a bit again! (Sad that 'proper' maths teachers seem to be fewer and fewer on the ground though.) I have also, coincidentally, just been reading about the mathematicians in history who first tried to measure the size of the Earh and its distance from the Sun using triangulation. Best of all was the French astronomer/scientist who delighted in the name of Jean Picard. Any trekkies amongst us?

Cheers Andy - the new ones appeared as I was typing my last post so one is already in use! Just a big kid really!!

Larry whilst, as you say, this may be the case: I cannot support the level and type of discussion that you are all so keen on. Why do you not pool your collective intelligence and tackle something more relevant to today - the atrocities that are taking place at this very moment could do with serious investigation. Perhaps that would lead to fewer people alive at this moment losing them before they should! I repeat - John Kennedy is dead.

Uniform is in the UK news again! Yesterday's TES reported that teenagers have discovered that there is a fate worse than obeying school rules....elasticated, rubber-soled black plimsolls - the ultimate indignity for the fashion-conscious teenager! At a school in Rochdale, students who turn up wearing trainers are issued with a pair of the plimsolls to wear instead. Just one measure being taken in an effort to reduce underachievement of boys at the school, which was being blamed partly on the 'laddish' culture of disaffection and low aspiration. As they say 'the proof of the pudding is in the eating', so perhaps we will all watch with interest the progress of this school in its attempts to improve the GCSE pass rate.

Glad to hear you are having fun ... and marking! Like the videos - keep us posted on future developments on the site. Some good chemical video stuff ( as well as lots of other science) on the 'multi media science school' software - not cheap to buy but we've used lots of things on it. Assume you are familiar with it but I have to say that a particular favourite clip is the reaction of caesium with water.

Andrew is right when he says However, I do believe that the current situation is more worrying in the sense that violence as a form of entertainment is widely accepted so that the evening and weekend outings by teenagers have become, for many, a deliberate exercise in seeking a punch up or vandalism of some kind. Yes I think that parents have to take a lot of the blame but again the culture and easy acceptance of divorce and one parent families have a significant impact also. Bringing up children to be reasonable, balanced human beings is the hardest job I have ever done but I was not alone - a husband, grandparents, uncles, aunts and cousins were all involved and supportive. How so many single mums (it isn't usually dads is it?) can expect to cope with demanding toddlers and the stroppy teenagers they often become is beyond my understanding. It is no wonder that they let them go out of the house without asking where or what they will be up to - the prospect of a few hours peace must be irresistable. In addition I think that TV and film portrayal of violence is so easily available to children from an early age. Another way of parents getting the few hours of peace is to sit them in front of the TV or a video, often portraying violence. Even on news broadcasts the violent images shown leave little out. I firmly believe these all profoundly influence youngsters and they become blase about what they see - it is 'fantasy'. Society as a whole must accept blame, not just parents. The question is what are we all prepared to do about it?

You never did tell us Jay! Is it time now maybe?

Speaking of half-baked ... this one is totally raw! I had a good laugh at a section in yesterday's TES which stated that the phrase 'personalised learning' is on the lips of every government minister but few seem clear about its meaning.... but despite the lack of clarity the phrase is spreading like a virus, with schools advertising for teachers with experience and understanding of personalised learning'. What a surprise!! Yet another band wagon ...New Labour's next 'Big Idea' for trying to persuade voters that they have something really cutting edge to introduce into schools during their next term of office (when they are elected of course!). Anyone out there a secret expert? Tell us what it is!

John F Kennedy is dead and has been for many years. Why can't this topic be left in peace? I fail to see why such gruesome details should be so minutely and obsessively examined by apparently intelligent, grown men so many years after the event. This discussion is not going to change the outcome or the subsequent events in any way. I do not see how it actually contributes positively to this forum.

Everyone seems to have gone quiet on this topic! Where are the scientists!!?? We need you!! Perhaps you are all riveted on the JFK debate which seems to be such a hugely important topic to the 'Education' world! Anyway, just to show that we are still trying to engage students by producing some 'fun' materials which just might help them to remember a few scientific facts and concepts here is a link to our home produced GCSE materials:- Dartford Lignet Science Pages Some feedback would be appreciated if anyone has time!

It is certainly true that huge amounts of money have been spent in schools to provide ICT equipment and training over the last five years or so. I have to agree that that this bit from the report Andrew quotes is very pertinent: There are vast numbers of teachers (of all ages!) who are still only at the very basic level of competence in their use of ICT. In my experience they lack interest in many cases, but also lack confidence and the time to improve their skills. If they are not confident they will not attempt to use ICT in a classroom situation as many of their pupils will already be more competent than they are themselves. How true! So much money was wasted with the NOF scheme because no-one thought to work closely enough with practising teachers. Yes. They also need to ensure that there is sufficient funding to update and re-equip schools with up-to-the-minute ICT equipment, capable of running modern software applications!. Many of the students have more up-to-date stuff than their school - how is that going to improve their ICT skills or experiences?

I do agree that the JFK debate does seem to have rather taken over this forum. Whilst I can appreciate that it is of great interest to some I also fear that new members in particular may be 'put off' as it appears that there is little other debate going on! I also admit to finding it of little interest As I see it there are two possible solutions: i) we should all try to increase postings on other educational issues - not easy for many of us who are also doing a full time teaching job in the middle of the exam season! ii) as Andy indicates - perhaps the JFK debate would be better conducted in a separate forum!!

Yes. However, it depends on what sort of uniform is being insisted upon! The uniform our school expects is mostly about adhering to the colour of clothing, and key areas of concern raised by students has been about wanting comfort and practicality. Hence the simple uniform list of: white shirt brown skirt or trousers brown sweatshirt white or brown socks or tights brown or black shoes dark colour coat or jacket We appreciate that our students are not from wealthy families and it would be unreasonable to expect them to buy the expensive garments usually provided in the old fashioned 'school outfitters', so they can buy them from anywhere they wish. The school itself has sought out a supplier of good quality, reasonably priced sweatshirts which are printed with the school logo. These have proved very popular as hardly any students buy them from elsewhere. Year 11 have their own colour of sweatshirt and are very keen to purchase these - a status thing! As a parent I always supported the uniform rules of my children's schools because it meant I had no problems about: 'I've got nothing to wear today?' 'I must have money for more clothes because these are out of fashion' 'I must have more clothes because I've worn this ten times already' 'I can't wear that - I'll look stupid' etc, etc. The requirement for a uniform takes away the need for much of the 'fashion competition'. Rich and poorer students do not stand apart - the uniform of all becomes slightly scruffy so is something of a leveller. It is also possible to provide second hand garments for students who need them - no-one recognises them as having been theirs. As requirements are simple we have few confrontations about 'elaborations on the theme' of uniform - white trainers, excess jewellery and piercings are the regular problem areas. In a recent survey amongst our students the only thing they wanted to get rid of was the colour of the uniform! I agree that uniform does not improve learning but it takes away some of the distractions that hamper learning! "Where's my cap?"

It strikes me that you actually have nothing to fear from this woman if you have the level of support that you indicate from the rest of the executive board. The fact that you were fairly elected by those eligible to vote is what a democtatic process is all about. Endorsement from the outgoing president may seem, by some, to be advantageous but that assumes that the electorate have no minds of their own! Hardly the case amongst professional educators surely? Ignore the bitchy attitude and just get on with the job. You are all there to work together on a common goal but it doesn't mean you will all agree over everything, and it wouldn't be a healthy situation if you did. You will never please everyone so stop trying! If this woman sees she is getting to you she has won - she is trying to make this a personal matter rather than a professional one. Remain the professional and rise above this unprofessional behaviour. You are the union president and she will have to get used to it. She can't change the vote can she?

Thank you for the information Graham. Are you saying that this is actually happening right across the board though? I have serious doubts. Examples that might be worth mentioning are regarding graduates known to me personally - three from Oxford (not Brookes!) who achieved 2.1's and 2.2's in mathematics and geology. Each of these (state school) students gained 4 or 5 A levels (at grade A) in sciences and mathematics. Two other (state school) students who achieved firsts in theatre studies and business at ex -polys managed 3 A levels apiece at C and D grades. I know there are all kinds of reasons that might be cited for the differences in the apparent achievement of these students, but being a professional in the 'education business' I look at the evidence from my own experiences and stand by my view that there is significant variation of standards between 'degrees'.

Thanks guys - I have enjoyed some of your tales of yesteryear! Our students' imaginations only seems to run to egg and flour fights with each other, but tend include any unfortunate member of the public who happens to get in the wayonce outside the school gates. We do our best to prevent such activities but are not always totally successful. I have to say though that such 'scare stories' as Derek mentions are not just scare stories - I know of school that this week called in extra security after receiving a report that a neighbouring school's Year 11's 'were out and on their way'. It wasn't the case - they aren't out until next week! Watch this space....

I can see Andy's point about the number of exams having apparently increased over recent years in the UK but I am not sure this is only applicable to the third term of the school year. Many of the increases have appeared through newly designed modular courses having formal examinations at every stage throughout the course. Rather than having short sharp tests, reflecting the percentage of marks these carry in the overall picture, they seem to have become ever more time hungry and onerous. Some of the new vocational courses are also examination heavy - I can hardly believe that at this time there is a 'mock' IT examination taking place in our school which has to be carried out over 20 hours!! The actual exam in Year 11 will take place over 40 hours... Coursework is another bone of contention - examining in a different form and in most cases hardly an inspiring exercise for either teacher or student. Does this represent time spent developing a student's interest in and grasp of a subject. I hardly think so - it is another hoop designed by exam boards for us to jump through. A good idea in theory but trial over the years has shown that it has become virtually valueless in terms of real assessment of student achievement. (The science forum has already discussed this at length.) I have no interest in signing up as an examiner or moderator - I'm already too worn out with and bored by all the coursework assessment for my own classes! There are many well qualified and competent teachers who feel the same - this is one good reason why there is a continuing shortage of examiners each year. I don't quite know what Adrian means by 'soft assessment' - truly formative assessment is not a soft option but takes careful planning, thought and time on the part of the teacher. Poor practicioners do not tend to be good at this. Perhaps you could explain?

Until such times that all Universities offer the same courses and the same examinations, and apply the same assessment criteria as one another there is almost no way of comparing the 'quality' of degrees from one establishment to another. I believe that employers are increasingly confused about the value of degrees, and this has possibly been as a result of so many of the Polytechnics being re-designated as Universities. Traditionally the Polytechnics offered more vocational courses whilst the Universities were offering academic qualifications. The result of redesignation is that everyone in higher education apparently is achieving the same sort and level of qualification! What nonsense. Unfortunately I suspect that employers will become increasingly mistrustful of 'degrees' as Universities compete for students to fill courses and standards expected of them fall. In the end a 'degree' will be worth very little. I certainly believe that there is a case for suspecting that grade inflation is rife - it makes (some) Universities look better so they attract more/better students. This is only an extension of what is happening in our schools, of course, so should we be surprised? The question needs to be asked as to why is it we currently find overseas students so keen to study at our Universities - particularly at Oxford and Cambridge and the red brick Universities? Quality is surely the name of the game here. The government should be very careful that quality and rigour are maintained, and that quantity should be of secondary importance.

We all have to deal with communication that arrives via the 'postal system' both at home and at work. It could be argued that such items also take up a specific amount of our time such as you suggest Graham. We (educationalists) have never, to my knowledge, charged a fee for this. However, solicitors dealing with letters to and from clients do charge a fee per letter. I do not know whether they currently charge for email communications in the same way but it would seem to be a logical extension of their existing practise. In view of the increasing amount of information that is being sent around via email, however, I can certainly see a very real point in levying a charge to deal with that received in one's professional capacity. Unfortunately I cannot envisage a practical way of doing this for most of us!

I've just come across an interview with author Bill Bryson whose latest book is entitled 'A Short History of Nearly Everything' . He says "I had long been mystified by how it was that I'd been so bored by science at school and yet science to me seems inherently fascinating. Why should I be bored by chemistry in school when we are all chemicals?" We are always interested in ourselves...so why should these things that are so profoundly important to our very existence have been so excruciatingly dull to me at school?" Bill read about and researched a whole range of scientific topics, and questioned top scientists, to provide the basis for his book. He believes that if he had been told some of the 'human' stories he has come across during his research, he would have been much more receptive to science at school. "It struck me that ....we really want to know things and if you present it in a fun way, then you get all kinds of enthusiasm on their (children's) part. I'm not saying that you should trivialise all teaching and bring it down to a superficial level, but perhaps we can find common ground by focusing first on the sense of wonder before looking at.....a detailed level." He asked each scientist interviewed what got them interested in their branch of science - it was always a particular teacher who inspired them, who excited them about mosses or astronomy, and they decided this was going to be their life challenge. I do think he has made some valid points. I also like some of the 'attention grabbers' such as: 'atoms are constantly recycled and so numerous that some suggest that each of us has a billion atoms that belonged to Shakespeare and a billion from Mozart and any other historical figure you care to mention.' Any thoughts on who would you most/least like to have your billion atoms from?

David this topic is already being discussed in the 'debates in education' section of the forum. Check out the 'How valuable are teachers?' section. I am not only interested in the salaries being paid in different countries but also the range of duties that teachers are expected to perform in addition to their actual classroom teaching.

Thanks Lesley, I will certainly investigate your games with a view to using them with my science classes.

I have also noted that it seems to be a male idea that women and ICT don't mix. Please don't stereotype us gentlemen - many women may not be too interested in the 'guts' of computers or of software and hardware development, but then many men aren't interested either! Women are perfectly competent ICT users which is all that is necessary to take part in this forum. I, for one, am always interested to look at new ICT developments and integrate them into my 'repertoire' if they are i) useful and ii) reliable. I am happy for the experts to iron out any problems, just as I take my car to the garage for work to be done on it. I think that several of us women have made the same points about our less frequent participation in forum debates ...... Andrew at least acknowledged one of them!

Having close connections with our feeder primary schools I know that there are numbers of children aged under 11 years who display significant behavioural problems. These children are already being excluded from school as a result of their poor behaviour but can be enrolled in another school fairly easily owing to their close proximity to one another. Some of these children move schools several times during their primary career! Already they are being failed by the system that fails to address their needs. It is when these children come to enrol in a secondary school that these issues really seem to come to a head because it is much more difficult to move from school to school as there aren't so many of them. The travelling to more a distant school becomes impractical (and expensive) so 'home tuition' is supposedly the answer when they are excluded permanently. Of course, as Anne says, it is certainly not the answer - in my experience it is a total waste of time! Should we perhaps be looking much more closely at addressing the problems that show in our younger pupils rather than waiting until they become much less manageable at secondary level? Help at this stage is largely 'fire fighting' whereas at a young age there may be a greater chance of changing a child's unacceptable behaviour and supporting the parents to support the child! Sorry about the comment regarding 'genuine in government' Derek - stupid of me!!

The 'major funding issues' are also rather complex John. As you say, the number of good teachers who leave the profession because they are not prepared to deal with the so called 'challenging' behaviour of students present governments with the need to find and train replacements at an increasingly rapid rate. This is not a cheap activity and I would suggest that it probably costs rather more that the provision of appropriate special units! I wonder if anyone has done the sums? I read recently that most newly qualified teachers state that they are not planning to remain in the profession for more than 5 years. If this is indeed the case the problems will continue to be compounded as the teacher population becomes less experienced, with fewer real specialists available to work with special needs students. Governments have got to start looking further than the end of their nose. They need to consult with people who are actually working with these youngsters on a daily basis. If nothing else they need to look at the 'bigger picture' and consider what impact their actions are going to have on the voters of tomorrow, and certainly take careful note of what Jaywalker reports is happening in the US! The UK, for one, is not far behind in the litigation stakes. We only have to look at the increasing number of teachers who are being taken to court by students for actions allegedly taking place in classrooms! Does anyone know whether this forum is actually being viewed by anyone (genuine) in government? Perhaps it might be of some interest for them to do so!