Bernie Laverick

I have answered you countless times. It was never missing in the first place. See the corpse! Are they still there? That's the proof. Swapped explanations yet Jim it's been nearly an hour since the last one?

The point I'm making Jim is this isn't just A N other piece of your jigsaw. Failure to provide even a coherent explanation for the mastoid dooms the entire charade. Disproving the Bolton Ford incident doesn't per se disprove H&L. Not finding an explanation for how 'Lee's' body came to be in Harvey's' grave does. Game over!

Steel reinforced concrete eh?? Failed?? What does this imply? Does it imply some sort of foul play by unseen hands? That someone broke into the vault to carry out the procedure? (But didn't copy his dental status at the same time? Comedy gold!) So now this explains the identical mastoid? Jim jumps from explanation number 1 to explanation number 3 in record time. Just three posts! But is there any evidence offered...? Any proof? Any documentation? Did any of the exhumation staff go missing? Have you even checked? Shameless...

???? I don't really care what you believe Michael. I do know that you risibly labelled me a "disinformation agent" because I question and doubt the theory generating this thread. If you believe in an Oswald project, that does NOT therefore conclude that H&L is the one and only explanation behind such a project. If we want to find the truth behind that project then we need to remove any obstacles that are in the way. I believe H&L is such an obstacle. Why is that not a perfectly legitimate stance to take? You are attacking me for questioning Jim and Sandy, that I am deliberately being "obtuse", that I don't present research, that Jim has laid out a logical series of evidence etc...forgive me for thinking you too believed in H&L. As I say, I don't give two hoots what you believe. But maybe instead of pithy one liners you join the debate and state your position. then we will all be enlightened. Don't hold back on the derogatory names Michael, it's the logical next step! Before you do though, would you like to state which of the three above possibilities you find the most likely explanation for the mastoid debacle? Bearing in mind that if that fuels some of your agnosticism then the entire H&L crumbles into the dust. It is NOT just one of the many other 'examples'. You can lose Bolton Ford and still live to fight another day. Lose this and it all tipples off the edge of a cliff. That's why I am pursuing it. And that's why you are all getting angry!

No idea then...? Thought so. Reading what others have written is precisely why I am questioning their multiple conclusions, as varied and as exotic as they have been. As you can see above, Jim has now reverted back to the operation been done by complete chance while the Hungarian/Russian refugee/orphan was 'over there'. No documentation. No evidence. Just blind faith. Only 20 posts ago Jim was convinced that the operation was "most likely" (see the evidence he provides there?) done in NY, "probably" (and again) in 1952/3. He's ditched that now. He's gone back to an exact same obscure operation been performed on a Hungarian refugee who was picked by unknown hands for an as yet unspecified espionage plot and who again, coincidentally, managed to grow through adolescence to look identical to the character he was destined to adopt. That's not even a pair of twos in a poker game! It has been said by the H&L faction that the exhumation was faked too. Is this on top of the coincidental mastoid operation explanation... or an alternative one? Three explanations for one event, and all three have been proposed without a shred of evidence. When one explanation is rebutted, even with scientific evidence, they revert to another. 1 - 'Harvey' by pure chance had had the same mastoid operation as a kid. 2 - It was done in NY in 1952/3 3 - The exhumation or its findings were faked. You would agree Michael that should one of these be true you would want to see some proof? Or is me asking that question adequate evidence in your mind that I am some spooky disinfo agent? In fact, because there are three explanations, all of which are interwovenly used, it really is beholden on those that promote the theory to go and look for the smoking gun. Or at least, pick one of them and stick to it! I implore the H&L supporters to do what the best researchers do on here. Develop it!! Prove it! Dig out more information. NOTHING has been added to this story in over twenty years. Nothing. What does that tell you Michael? That's why they don't bother looking - because there's nothing for them to find!

How do YOU explain the mastoid operation scar found on the corpse? The one that is consistent with the operation we know 'Lee' had. Please tell us how 'Harvey' also had that same mastoid scar? But don't conjure up some scenario, with or without any documentation or witness testimony, that the operation was also done on Harvey to perfectly replicate 'Lee's' mouth (should he be inevitably exhumed), because they didn't do the much easier procedure of replicating his dental status!!! Any ideas?

This translates as..."Anyone who has a different opinion to me must be a disinformation agent". Looks like you have the credentials to be a fully fledged member Michael. But unfortunately you say you are "agnostic". Good. That means you are not fully convinced. Good. Like to share which bits you don't believe...or would that make you a disinformation agent too? Do you even know how silly you sound calling people disinformation agents? Do you think they play their evil games here on a silly forum rather than organising an 'accident' for Jim or for Armstrong? Why have these people allowed you all to get to the 'truth'? Ever ask yourselves that? Are you in danger? According to you guys, you should be. You've discovered the 'truth' and you're telling us these people will stop at nothing to prevent this getting out. Yet here you all are every day revealing top secret information to the whole world. Why isn't anyone in the world listening though? Because they are ALL working for the American intelligence services!!! That's the only possible explanation!

Correct. There is no debate here. The "research" and "evidence" you are alluding to has all been debunked over and over and over again. Maybe you can tell us Michael how Lee's body ended up in Harvey's grave? If you can answer that then your contribution may hold some merit. But be warned, because the most knowledgeable men on H&L can't answer it. Have I misinterpreted this? If so, please accept my apologies along with their, of your, crystal clear explanation as to how this may have happened. Of course, should you be unable to do this, then you may want to question why you make such pointless posts. While your at it, fancy trying to calculate the odds of two unrelated boys picked as children eventually growing up to look identical...?

Gosh you are so meticulous when it comes to seeking the truth eh Sandy? I don't think humanity lost a great detective when Sandy decided on a different career route...

"Two different men" He ACTUALLY sees two different men!!!!! Ha ha ha!!! You cannot argue against this kind of chronic paranoid delusion. Seriously, go see someone! Get it sorted!

They are totally identical! Joseph's believes it's possible for two unrelated boys chosen by the CIA for some as yet unnamed plan to grow up looking as identical as this! I note that 'neither' look like they have a tooth missing! Anyway, we have PROVED beyond a shadow of doubt that the entire H&L story is false. (See the exhumation report!) It can now be taken as a proven FACT that H&L never happened except in the tiny minds of some little men who refuse to grow up. You've been beaten! No, you've been thoroughly humiliated! The evidence of that runs through the entire 120 odd pages of this thread. I'm going to miss our little soirees here, but you've finally run out of time-wasting blanks to fire. You did well...sort of, like the gambler trying to bet the family fortune on a pair of threes! You recruited about a dozen followers in 20 years. That's fantastic. Well done! You do know that more people believe that the Queen of England is a lizard than believe in H&L? In fact, I'd go further, more people would probably rather accept that she was one of the shooters than accept this relentless trolling disguised as a risible theory, one that relies on deliberate falsification and mistruths, and whose sole design is to divert, confuse, and slow down the search for the truth. We have proved your theory doesn't add up. It doesn't fit the known facts. All you have to do is read the pages and the cringe worth arguments you have all wriggled and slithered with. Lee has ended up in Harvey's grave and no amount of childish excuses can change this. You can't explain it without using words such as, "maybe", and "probably", and "likely", associated with multiple scenarios - none of which you all agree on anyway - so that tells reasonably minded people that you have no PROOF of anything. NONE! The only thing that this proves is how staggeringly gullible some people can be. Of that you have more than enough evidence! Come back when you actually have some meat on the plate. Do some of your own research and stop pimping off other people's work! Find some more witnesses. Get hold of some more toothless photos. Get the dental records documenting a false tooth. Find the surgeon who did 'Harvey's' mastoidectomy. Find the hospital where it was done first though. Dig up some more on the Hungarian/Russian orphan/refugee. Show, with documentation, or new witnesses, how the exhumation findings were faked. Contact the Bolton Ford's witnesses' families to see what they may know. There must still be dozens who knew LHO while he was in the army, how many have you tried to locate? The sheer laziness is beyond belief! Until you have something new to add I don't see the point in discussing it any further. Everything else has been adequately debunked, and even your dishonest cherry picking couldn't help you in the end. It's over.

I don't know if this may be of any interest to anyone, probably not if I'm honest, certainly to no one outside of this little bubble...(and very few within no doubt) but I'll post it anyway. Here's a link to a thread from 2008 At the top of page 12 there is a reply by Duke Lane to my post from the previous page. I'll paste that post below. I've added the bold. ............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... I have always been intrigued as to why Tippit was waiting at the Good Luck Oil station, or more importantly, who he was waiting for. What could have been so important that, only moments after the nearby assassination, would have required him to be there? Given his subsequent actions, described earlier in this thread as “a man frantically looking for someone”; the erratic movements; the manic search of Andrews’ car; running a stop sign; the failed telephone call at the Top Ten Records shop, and the then seemingly successful conclusion to that search at the corner of 10th and Patten surely points to only one thing: he was waiting at Gloco looking out for Oswald to pass over the Houston Street viaduct. If so, logic dictates that the original plan would be for Tippit to identify a particular vehicle crossing the viaduct, a vehicle that Tippit may have been familiar with or had at least been briefed on, and then follow it to a pre-arranged rendezvous. It either didn’t turn up, or he got there too late, or there was a forced change of plan – one of many that weekend – provoking the ensuing frantic search. Given the well documented testimonies of an Oswald sighting climbing into a Nash Rambler close to the TSBD moments after the assassination, could this be the car Tippit was anxiously waiting for? It would certainly seem logical. Many researches suggest he was waiting for Oswald’s taxi. But surely, whatever Tippit’s role was you’d have thought his handlers would have given him better odds than that! So this, in my opinion, lends credence to the sighting by Officer Craig and others of an Oswald escaping by the more conventional means of a get-away car as opposed to the risible public transport pantomime. If indeed it was Oswald in that Nash Rambler, and Tippit’s actions point further to that possibility, this means we have a major discrepancy that can only be explained by the presence of two Oswalds. That or the entire section of the WC that deals with Oswald’s journey (journey, not get-away!) from the TSBD to his room on Beckley - including the witness testimonies of all those who identified him at various points along the way, bus driver, taxi driver, former landlady etc - is a pack of lies from start to finish. We can dismiss any amount of the conclusions drawn up by the WC but can we pick and choose which group of witnesses we want to believe or disbelieve on the basis of inconvenience to a pet theory? Is it in any way likely that the above WC witnesses were complicit in the conspiracy when they described Oswald’s public transport movements? This is probably the same odds as the witnesses to the Nash Rambler get-away scenario, among others who placed ‘Oswald’ in all the ‘wrong’ locations, conspiring to create a red herring that may muddy the waters for the next half century. If just one witness from each of the alternative scenarios is correct we know for certain that there were indeed two Oswalds. Pure conjecture but I often wonder whether Tippit eventually encountered the ‘wrong’ Oswald. (I now know this to be Lee) The one he didn’t know! That would certainly explain the initial casual nature of the meeting at 10th and Patten, only turning sinister as Tippit’s suspicions are raised during the course of the conversation, when something just didn’t quite ring right. This scenario also accounts for the impossibility of the patsy Oswald, (i.e. the one known by Tippit) by now nervously seeking his contact in the Texas Theatre, being physically capable of reaching the crime scene in the time available to do the deed. Of course this is pure speculation and tells us nothing of what the real connection was or what the ultimate outcome of the rendezvous was supposed to be. But it does underline the importance of an often overlooked aspect to this case – Tippit’s role. Who was moving him around the chessboard and why? Edited March 18, 2008 by Bernie Laverick ..................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... See how easy we can all get carried away with things...? We all get things wrong sometimes. The question is, do you have the strength of character to face up to it and correct it?

Ok, more accurately is...your version accepts in its entirety the testimonies of Bledsoe, Whaley and McWatters. Just as the WC does. Just as DVP does. Just as the FBI does. You all make strange bedfellows...it's not often you champion the accuracy of the FBI. Yet here, regarding the bus and taxi ride and Oswald staying at Bledsoe's house, the FBI got it smack on the button. The bus ride and the taxi ride have been falsified Jim! The FBI faked the findings and inserted its preferred view of events by manipulating witnesses as you are always telling us they do, so that the sole guilt could be directed at LHO. You are aware that these people can and do fake evidence aren't you?

I haven't read about the bus/taxi fiasco for years, I would need bit of time to brush up. But you do realise don't you that your version of events re the 'escape' tallies perfectly with DVP's and the WC? So, the people you have been accusing of all kinds of skulduggery, falsification, lying, torturing witnesses, faking and destroying of evidence are now to be taken at their word for the entirety of this part of the story? All of a sudden they have become your star witnesses, carving out a narrative that perfectly fits with your H&L plot. Now we mustn't question anything they have concluded, and that this part of the WC is as accurate as it gets. Can you believe that I am imploring YOU to not have so much trust in the authorities' version of events? Yet here you are promoting it for them I don't want to get into a discussion on the Mcwatters/Whaley/Bledsoe saga because 1) I don't have the relevant information to hand and don't want to argue from a position of ignorance and 2) I don't want to facilitate your deft change of subject when we haven't had a satisfactory explanation for why 'Lee's' head was found in 'Harvey's' grave.

Escape from the 6th Floor I've just read this article and if you take away the H&L nonsense, and the acceptance of the WC narrative (2nd floor encounter and the public transport escape plan) it is quite a thought provoking piece. I'd like to do a bit more reading up on the idea of snipers escaping through the elevator shafts. He may have really discovered something there, but I fear, without alternative information to hand, I'll discover that it is either someone else's work or has already been robustly debunked. I genuinely hope it hasn't though... With reference to the Nash Rambler incident whereby an Oswald look alike (Lee), according to Craig, was seen dashing towards the car before it sped off down Stemmons. He confirmed that the man he saw in the rambler was the same man he later saw in police custody...See where I'm going with this Jim? The one in custody was 'Harvey'. Oops! So either there is just one Oswald or even YOUR witness Craig, the one and only one who was observant enough to see Oswald climb into the rambler, couldn't tell the two apart! So they were absolutely identical after all! This incident occurred while Harvey Oswald, the man accused of killing President Kennedy, was riding in a city bus several blocks east of the Book Depository. You still believe in the bus story??? Really? Have you not seen the pioneering work done on that? It was one of the most illuminating threads this forum has ever had. It proves that Bledsoe, possibly the most inept witness in the history of humanity, was lying through her teeth and CLEARLY coached as to what to say. She even blurts that out! McWatter, the bus driver, hadn't a clue who LHO was and he too was coached/led by the nose. The whole bus/taxi escape is a fallacy from start to finish! As for the 2nd floor encounter, I'd recommend anyone to read this. it clearly proves that the WC narrative, adopted and accepted by Armstrong, is a crock of sh*t from start to finish. http://www.prayer-man.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Anatomy of the second floor lunch room encounter Aug 27 2017-by_Bart Kamp.pdf Are you even remotely capable of understanding how far these people would go to safeguard this assassination plot? You have to stop trusting the CIA and the FBI Jim, they have lied through their teeth all the way through this investigation. The WC is a lie from start to finish. Yet here you are, using the FBI's narrative to back up your H&L story... Oh if only you had irony receptors...

So you are now on record as believing that these two unrelated boys - who grew up to look so identical that only a pixel biometric test can tell them apart - fortuitously for the plotters, both independently had had a mastoid operation, and in the same ear as well? Did they know this prior to the exhumation or did they only learn of their extreme good fortune after the findings were released? The super bad guys must have been pulling their hair out during that exhumation! Any minute the entire plot is going to come crashing down as soon as they learn that 'Harvey' doesn't have the scar of the known mastoid operation on 'Lee'. All they can hope for is that 'Harvey' too, unknown to them, just may have also had the same operation. It's a real long shot, almost the equivalent to winning the lottery, but if not, the H&L plotters are in deep trouble. How will they get out of this? Then the word comes through. "Hey boss, you're never gonna believe this! 'Harvey' has had the exact same operation as 'Lee...and in the same ear too'!!" "Brilliant! So, we're cool on the mastoid. Phew! What about the front tooth that 'Lee' had replaced. How do we get around that? I presume 'Harvey' didn't also lose the same front tooth independently....? No, that would be too much to ask." "Only an extremely delusional person is going to deduce that there were two Oswalds based on hearsay of dental status, Sir." "Yes you're right . We have more than enough fabricated evidence to prove conclusively there was only one Lee Harvey Oswald. The mastoid seals it really. Gosh, how lucky was that? Don't worry about the teeth; that will be just something endlessly discussed by middle aged fanatics who have no intention of doing anything about it anyway!" "Sir, can I also inform you that Agents BC and DD have been eliminated. After the Stripling fiasco we had no alternative." "Good! And the sloping shoulders debacle...? "Again Sir, given the immense complexity of our outstanding achievement, there will always be a couple of small things we slightly overlooked. The sloping shoulder photo could be a big problem for us though. It has the potential to blow the whole thing!" "No, not at all, we can go with camera angles, age difference, posture, lighting and things of that nature to get ourselves out of the sloping shoulders problem. I'm a lot more concerned about the Bolton Ford incident. I mean, who was the bright spark that sent 'Lee' out to buy trucks while 'Harvey' was in Russia? Thank goodness those two witnesses didn't mention 'Lee's' missing tooth or we could have been in real trouble!" "Sir with our meticulous planning and our staggering amount of good luck only the brightest of the bright like Armstrong Hargroves and Josephs will see through all this. They are getting dangerously close Sir." "Ok, I'm assigning top cointelpro operative, Agent Laverick, to fight all our online forum battles. He'll be using several other identities and he is a genius at disrupting future research on H&L. It's all down to him now. This entire plot rests on whether our man can stop Hargrove and Josephs in their tracks. Those two are taking on the entire might of the American intelligence machine and, up to now, they are beating us hands down! I don't know how they all managed to get to the bottom of this subterfuge, but they have. And they need stopping before they do some damage! Agent Laverick will be the one to do it!" "Won't they just see through that Sir?" "Probably, they see through everything else. But we have absolutely no choice or they will make their discoveries public and that will be the end of us all. Now, off you go, haven't you got a mountain of evidence to destroy or any exhumations that need faking?" "Yes Sir, though I have just finished vaporising the entire witness testimony of those who saw or came into any contact with 'Lee' after the assassination. When I next have another full day's access to the thermo-nuclear ovens I will vaporise those of Marguerite too." "Very good. Fancy a tab of LSD...?"

Where do I start? So you agree that Armstrong didn't leave much to be discovered. Interesting. And convenient. But tell me, how does a person who admits he has only "scratched the surface" of Armstrong's work KNOW that he hasn't left much to be discovered? Blind faith? The realisation that since Armstrong you have all found a big fat zero to add to it? Do you know FOR DEFINITE that there isn't an old photo kicking about showing 'Lee's' tooth missing? Not just the one, but others too? Find it/them and we're going to look pretty stupid aren't we? But none of you have even bothered looking. If I'm wrong however, please reveal the results of such a search. This isn't so much aimed at you Sandy, I respect what you say about being an amateur researcher and it's not you personally I'm firing these questions at. But you are defending this theory and I'm asking you what others may have done to further corroborate H&L. I'm presuming that someone who shows as much interest in this topic as you would want to know if further research has added meat from where Armstrong left it. You would be interested in such developments, right? For example, it would be brilliant for H&L if an school friend of 'Lee' came across this forum and contacted Jim with anything he knew about him wouldn't it? He may even have a photo of 'Lee' and if he too confirmed the missing tooth, your story would gain traction, it would gain credibility, and it would increase your confidence to go and look for more corroborative evidence. But I know for a fact that your boys haven't even looked. If they have looked what are the results of their new investigation? Telling me it's not worth looking for something because it's 65 years old it the biggest cop out I have ever seen on this forum. Ever! Well we may as well just pack up now then hadn't we? You do know that the JFK assassination and its prelude were about the same length of time ago don't you? But we're still looking; and we're still discovering. Even Ed Voebel was uncertain and that was 54 years years ago. Ha ha ha !!!! So even YOU reckon he wasn't certain on the missing tooth? Without him you have a blurred picture and his aunt saying he visited a dentist. That's it! On that alone you have to construct the entire H%L story to fit your interpretation of the facts. Because as you can see, if that is your 'Lee' (LHO to us!) then the whole H&L comes crashing down. That is why Jim can only repeatedly show that ONE AND ONLY photo; apparently that trumps ALL the scientific evidence! Armstrong has found most of those relevant documents, I'm sure. So all you have on this, is what you have got from Armstrong? There will be nothing more to add or to corroborate this story? And you're "sure" about this? Based on what? Based on the fact that you actually haven't found anything new? Does this mean the story has no legs? Of course not, it OBVIOUSLY means Armstrong found literally EVERYTHING so it's pointless looking. Great research ethos. Time is ticking and there is very little more research that can be done for Harvey & Lee How do you know this? What effort has gone into finding new information? Or have you all decided that if there were more information Guru Armstrong would have found it so there's no point even looking? Jim and Josephs don't even bother looking for new information. Do you know why? Because they will never find it so all they have is what Armstrong left them and not one jot of evidence has emerged since then to back it up. NOT ONE!!!

Erm, I think they may have noticed that at the autopsy. Because surely if they have replicated 'Lee's' mastoid status on 'Harvey' then they would have replicated his dental status too?? Surely? Why wouldn't they do that? Was there any evidence that one of those teeth were false? No. This means that even if you are right about H&L, you are totally wrong on the missing tooth. Had it been the case they would have replicated it on 'Harvey' like they did the mastoid! So even if it is 'Harvey', where is his false tooth to match 'lee's'? Whether this totally disproves H&L is mute. But it absolutely proves that LHO did NOT lose a tooth. How can you not see this? Because you are all totally blind to alternatives that don't fit the cult leader's holy word. Think for yourselves!

Tell you what Sandy, here's an exercise for you. If you take the confrontational shield down for a few minutes, and write yourself a list of all the mistakes that Armstrong may have made, in your opinion. He wrote a thousand pages and we have all written a hundred times more than that over the years. So tell me, with the benefit of hindsight what bits did he, or any of his main supporters, get wrong? You'd agree that only a tortured genius along the lines of Einstein could write a 1,000 pages of such complexity and not make even ONE mistake? I've asked this before, many times, and no one ever answers it. We have to assume therefore that you all believe Armstrong's work is 100% perfect with not a chink in its armour. If not, then which bits do you think he got wrong? Real simple question. Also could you make another list of all the NEW developments, those found since the publication of H&L, like new finds, witnesses, documents etc... that further back the story up? Because there was so obviously a plot and a cover up in the Kennedy assassination even now bits of new information are still +adding to our understanding of it. Those who believe in a plot to kill Kennedy are not just relying on a static piece of work written 20 odd years ago, but building their knowledge and changing narrative as new insights and developments come to light. Because there really was a plot, these insights and new developments will keep on flowing. But you have added absolutely NOTHING to the H&L story. NOTHING! Everything is taken from the holy book. You have found zero information since the publication of H&L that further develops its narrative. For instance... What effort has gone into tracking down 'Lee's' whereabouts since the assassination? What effort has gone into tracking down 'Marguerite's' whereabouts since the assassination? Wouldn't there be something somewhere that even hinted at their existence since the assassination? Have any of you looked? If so, what were the results of such effort? What effort has gone into corroborating the Hungarian refugee story? If so, what are the results of such effort? Have any of you made a special effort to corroborate the missing tooth story? Surely there must have been someone else who knew of this. If you found them you will have added a brick of credibility to your argument. So why aren't you even looking? And if you have looked, what were the results of such a search? Or are we saying that what Armstrong found 20 odd years ago is absolutely 100% of what is available to find - so there's no point looking for anything further? Everything else has all been destroyed except for what Armstrong found? Really? So what have you got that's new?

How and why I used to be a believer in H&L...No, this is NOT satire! Some of you may of heard of 'Lobster' magazine, it was an investigative journal produced by a guy called Robin Ramsay. As it happens, Robin only lives a few doors away from me, and many decades ago we were both members of the same branch of the Labour Party. We aren't/weren't bussom buddies, (I haven't seen him for over 15 years) but I know him and I have a lot of respect for what he achieved publishing Lobster. He spent a lot of print debunking silly theories but was still uber cynical of the 'Deep State'. It was a well respected journal. Many years ago, not through this forum, I came upon the H&L story and was intoxicated by it. I read the online articles (I couldn't then afford the book) and was shall we say, 80 - 90% convinced that there was definitely something to this. At that time (10 or 15 years ago...?) I didn't have access to, or didn't know where to look for, those who were debunking it. Clearly I didn't know the nuts and bolts of H&L, but my faith in it was partly fuelled by the belief that our intelligence services would be prepared to do anything, literally anything, to get their desired outcome. Then coincidentally Robin started a thread on here (I didn't even know he was a member on here then), an infamous one as it later turned out, stating how he too felt that H&L was something that needed more research. And he was very complimentary of Armstrong's work. Wow! Even Robin Ramsay is impressed! I read a bit more and by that time, having been a lurker on here for ages and then a member for a year or so, I started posting. The two areas of interest for me were the Tippit shooting and the H&L story. I am on record here on this very forum pro actively pushing H&L. I once got into a spat with Duke Lane, someone who's posts I had always admired for their eloquence and clarity, about the Tippit shooting. During that time I wondered whether it was 'Lee' who was responsible for this, and whether it was 'Lee' who was the one taken out at the back of the cinema. Of course, he made mincemeat out of me. It was one of my first forays into this arena and he wiped the floor with me. If I have the time I'll try and dig out the thread/posts I began having a few doubts, then I started reading Greg's posts on the subject. Greg had always impressed me with his incisive research, and his tenacity to get to the very heart of the matter on other topics he had contributed on. I have to say though I was a bit disappointed when I saw his first scathing posts on H&L. I wondered if he was losing the plot a bit. Then, bit by bit the whole elaborate charade came crashing down. One brick after another. It was all a psych-ops scam after all. I felt a little used. And a little angry. Angry at myself for sure for being so naïve and allowing that intoxication to take hold and angry at the snake oil salesmen selling it. I said earlier I didn't have access to those debunking it, now I'm honest enough to realise that I obviously didn't see it as being important enough to look for it! I was happy where I was. We have three layers of interest in this assassination. The wider, seemingly disinterested public. The keen student. The researcher. I'm definitely in the second camp but united with the third because their expertise can help us understand what really went on so as to educate the first camp. Where this may lead is anyone's guess, but without public clamour nothing ever changes. So it angers me that with all the existing complexity surrounding this case we have fakes and charlatans around every corner desperate to make a name or a quick buck, or more sinister, to divert and to bog down the progress and ultimately make us look like a tin-foil hat laughing stock. That's why I post about H&L. I'm an apostate!!!

NO YOU ARE NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Read above, Jim is telling us that this operation was done on 'Harvey' "most likely" in 1952/53. Stop muddying the water by ALSO saying the exhumation findings were faked!!! Why would they need to be faked if 'Harvey' had had the operation? It's one or the other and cannot be both. This is why it is so frustrating arguing with you people. You just will not stay on topic for more than five posts without slithering off to a new position. It's like trying to nail jelly to a brick wall! And as for misrepresenting your position on Jim's now confirmed explanation that 'Harvey' too had a mastoid operation when he was young to match up the records, it is on this very thread where you cast grave doubts that the CIA would go that far. I can find you the posts if you like? Like I can find you the posts where you state you believe that there were "multiple doppelgangers" as that was only a few days ago. Remember saying that Sandy? "Multiple doppelgangers"? What page of the H&L book is that on then? And would you care to elaborate or should we all just say random stream of consciousness outlandish trash, blurting out silly nonsense on the basis that the wilder it is the more likely it is to be true? That's your idea of research and truth seeking is it? Get with it Sandy, Jim has decided you're sticking with the unnecessary operation performed on a young boy (who coincidentally turns out to be so identical to his pre chosen unrelated doppelganger that the only way you can tell them apart is by a 'pixel biometric study') so as to later match up to 'Lee's' known medical record. Of the three possible explanations you have, this was your least favourite wasn't it? You prefer the "findings were faked" road don't you? I can understand that. Lots of things have been faked and distorted in this assassination investigation, throw your explanation into that basket and hope no one asks how it was done. But you can't now because Jim has over ruled you. You have to live with it. No doubt, within ten minutes you will become its most fearless advocate and throw your whole weight behind it. You have no choice now.

Come on Sandy keep up, Jim stopped promoting this idea more than ten posts ago!!! Exhumation evidence faked? What do you mean Sandy? Can you elaborate, because you guys in the H&L school of falsification haven't believed that for nearly a day now! No, it was "likely" to have been done in NY in 1952 or 53. All the evidence supports that. What evidence? Well, none actually but saying it was faked is making us look stupid again so let's switch it while no one's looking. Jim now (again) believes that the mastoidectomy was done while 'Harvey' was a boy but you Sandy are on record as adamantly saying that this scenario ranges from highly unlikely to totally ruled out. Can you lot at least start agreeing with yourselves? One is saying the results have been faked and the other is saying they weren't. It's not a minor point this you know. You have two totally different explanations for how 'Harvey's' body came to be found in 'Lee's' grave. One is that the exhumation findings were faked. The other is that there was no need to fake because 'Harvey' had had the exact same operation anyway. Please show how the findings could have been faked. What more juice do you have? Did any of 20 plus people in the exhumation team die in unusual circumstances? Have you even looked? Is there a letter from any of them existing that even cryptically alludes to what happened? Do you seriously have not one jot of evidence for this, but keep saying it anyway? (That is, until you get told off by Jim!) The only evidence you have is a school mate "thought" Oswald had a tooth knocked out and his aunt "thought" it needed dental treatment. Along with an old photo... THAT IS IT!!!! That is your PROOF that the exhumation findings were faked! You truth seeker you!!!!

Tell us again Sandy, how many Oswalds do you think there were...? You said earlier that there were "multiple" doppelgangers. Care to elaborate on that? Or do we just sit down, have a few beers, allow our imaginations to run riot and then use that as proof that some alcohol-induced fantasy is correct. That's how the rest of the H&L crew seem to operate. So the great studier and seeker of the truth has decided that when just ONE witness states he "thought" the tooth came out that means that nothing can now EVER disprove Voebels testimony because it will always trump all future scientific evidence, including exhuming the body to see for ourselves. You truth seeker you! Explain why all of 'Lee's' fillings were found exactly where they should have been as well as the mastoid operation. Did they fake those too? (Silly question. Of course they did. Anything that doesn't fit the H&L fantasy has been conveniently faked or destroyed hasn't it? ) I understand Sandy, you can't back down now, you have to do what Josephs does every time he gets humiliated on here...just keep going! But you still aren't a top team player yet though are you Sandy? The subject has been switched again! You have to learn to stop abruptly, preferably when you are, metaphorically, receiving a damn good kicking; that's when you have to change the subject. Like Jim is desperately trying to do now. Jim doesn't like talking about the autopsy, he often has to go away for a few days when this subject comes up. And have you noticed how Josephs has vacated the premises too...? They left you on your own for this bit Sandy because they understand how devastating this part of the story is. I think it went to your head a bit though because within less than 24 hours you had added "multiple doppelgangers" to the stew. It's a bit like the sorcerers apprentice! Now Jim has had to come back to change the subject and steer everyone away from this car crash!! But all they will do is drag the car out of the ditch and keep driving it as if nothing has happened!

."How did "Lee Harvey Oswald" grow a new front tooth in his grave?" He didn't have one missing in the first place! You can see from his corpse that there isn't one missing. Just as we have all said. But you keep insisting it's 'Harvey' So you have to explain 'Harvey's' mastoid scar that matches up with 'Lee's' medical record, and also 'Harvey's' fillings that match up with 'Lee's' dental record. The arguments are being debated here "for all to see", but just as you link to the H&L website why cry when others do likewise? The problem you are experiencing by having the arguments debated here is that you are repeatedly being cringingly humiliated. But the putrid arrogance is so far developed you really can't see how outstandingly stupid you all sound. I'm torn between the comedy gold you give so generously (and the wonderful entertainment that that provides), and the genuine concern for what seems like a profound issue with grasping reality.

Ha ha ha!!! "Still can't see that missing front tooth." That's because there wasn't one missing! "The two top teeth sure look natural." They are. They belong to LHO, and all the fillings still attached match up perfectly with LHO's dental record So, did they also replicate all the fillings as well as the mastoidectomy? So they gave 'Harvey' an unnecessary mastoidectomy AND they replicated all of 'Lee's' fillings so as to match...? But then didn't see fit to remove a tooth. How far lost do you have to be to believe in this crock of sh it?