Ian Williams

could this name four leaves be related to cryptology or substitution?

Ok, this is a thread/experiment to see what kind of a case the researchers here would make if they were before a grand jury in trial or whatever method of another inquiry headed by them. Not so much for debate as it is for finding out what kind of a case we'd have today if we were to be called upon to do another comission, or prosecute a trial against the guilty parties, or anything like that, so, name your strongest piece of evidence, the one that you think would "close the case" and establish a chain of evidence between the suspects and the crime. Although I'm not nearly as informed as most of you, I'll start to give an example: I think one of the best parts of the crime to highlight as proof of conspiracy might be the reports of two different rifles, with Oswald ordering one under alias, and it being by some reports very shoddy, whereas the other is an expert sniping weapon of that day, and the evidence that the prints on the gun may have been planted. Why: it shows that someone is attempting to frame Oswald as the killer, as well as that the press and police were already "told" to go after Oswald before they should have had reason to suspect him as a primary conspirator. *Edit* Also, please forgive me if my example is dead wrong, I never claimed to be any expert on any singular part of this case, and thus I usually avoid super specific posts like this, whereas this is intended as an example, not necessarily my "expert" opinion on it.

what do you guys think of these, then? Zapruder Film Hoax Zapruder Film Authentic

Why did RFK throw out the original coffin for JFK into the ocean? And why is he linked to disposing of some of the DNA evidence in the JFK assassination? I'm not casting theories here, just trying to understand preexisting ones: are these things true? I believe that, once again, TMWKK is where I heard this, and I was wondering if he did this, if so why, and is it connected to either assassination or not in your opinions?

I've always thought this would make for a good conversation piece/curriculum movie in a philosophy class, specially existentialism. What do you guys think?

From what I understand, their decline is well-deserved. They are mouthpieces for values such as Religious morals, conservative policies, and world leadership, but haven't actually practiced those values for at least 40 years. I don't think the democrats are much better, but at least they don't seem to always throw a senate or house temper tantrum for every bill any Republican tries to pass. And at least good domestic policy still exists on the radar to them. Neo-Conservative as a term even is a fallacy when applied to them, they should just be called the War Profiteering party, all else be damned once they actually get elected.

Real ID Wiki It's still supposedly a few years off, in 2011 sometime, and it's supposed to "streamline" our identification processes, but it just sounds like a nightmare waiting to happen to me. Aside from the obvious possible paranoia(of surveillance or whatever), how much easier would any sort of scapegoating or identity theft be when all your Identity checks stem back to one single rfid card? I was wondering if anyone here had already been researching this at all?

I know there is that dictabelt recording from a cops radio, but there's been debate as to whether that was actually there, and I was wondering if there are any other sources of audio from the assassination to cross-reference with that and the films to pin down the exact timing of events?

Are you referring to the Daltex building, Ian? Bests, Barb :-) i believe so, yes.

I have a dumb question on this subject, just to get up to snuff?? How many copies of the Zapruder film were supposedly made, and who all did it change hands through before becoming public?

And what do you think? Do you think there is a 4th film unreleased as of yet? I've not really looked into it but I haven't seen much evidence there was. Oliver seems pretty obviously to be a xxxx and the images I've seen of the "Babushka Lady" are not clear enough to say one way or the other. Supposedly witnesses saw her or someone else shooting a fourth film but I haven't seen it. That's not to say it doesn't exist, because as I said before I haven't followed this very much. As for RFK's asssassination I'm not sure I think it might even have been Sirhan but I haven't looked at it very closely either. Unfortunately my sound card isn't working I'll watch the Youtube when I get it fixed. I haven't barely looked into RFK at all, honestly didn't even know he had been assassinated until about this year or so. The theory in that vid and a few others is that the weapon was an automated gun built into the limo itself or something...just sounded interesting and not something I'd heard so thought I'd run it by here. Main question I have now is: is there any clear way to establish convincingly or even prove a motive/single set of motives that got JFK and possibly RFK murdered? I've heard lots of theories but most of them rely on witnesses only or other shaky chains of evidence to string things together. I'm not trying to take a stance on any theories out there, I just wouldn't mind a quick rundown of the currently held to be likely(and the currently totally debunked) theories, and also whether there even is a way to establish motive that strongly in this case, as I feel that legitimizing evidence we already have as well as potentially uncovering new evidence or witnesses would follow the chain of motive, provided we had a solidly provable one. On a sidenote of strangeness, while posting about a spectacularly dumb pseudo-review of Watchmen by Alex Jones on facebook, the bot check captcha was Tippit Involved.

I actually saw that when it aired. Unfortunately, the only thing I can find concretely on the internet so far is evidence of a new "SuperHighway" from Canada to Mexico, bigger than any built before, and some misrepresentation sites, like taking theoretical souveneir amero coins created as a product and posing them as actual currency.

Very, very informative post for me, more like this are needed in all debates I think. The one relevant thing I can see missing is that the EFF brought lawsuits against the cooperators with the NSA in their warrantless illegal wiretapping, and the case was never allowed to go forward for fear of "state secrets" being revealed, which leads me to think that they also wanted to avoid more of the Nixon Era scandal recurring.

It appears to me at least that Science vs Religion is one of the oldest debates that still rages just as hotly, and as usual, it's a false dichotomy. I've seen plenty of religious dogma in the most science-minded, and plenty of scientific theorizing in many religious folk. It's like debating Sci Fi vs Fantasy, they both meld into each other after you've read enough books, and it's more than rare to find one that is Sci Fi to the exclusion of all Fantasy elements and vice versa. I'd say, check out Bill Moyer's take on Religion, then apply it to Science as well. Both have their uses, but are struggling to continue being totally relevant to the worldviews today.

Yeah, I've been scratching my head over his economic policies of late as well....

Hey did anyone find any evidence related to the claim(i believe it was in TMWKK) that there was a shooter in the next building from the Depository?

Maybe the "even keel" you perceive, is related to Len either claiming he does not understand obvious points illustrating the record of lack of credibility at the top of US political hierarchy supported by clear examples, along with his minimization of unusual (incredible) pronouncements made by the powerful ? Hey, I was just commenting on general non-flaminess of posts, I don't claim to know much of anything yet about the veracity of his counterclaims, or whatever. It's fairly startling to me not to have someone jump down each person with an opinions throat yelling XXXX XXX!!! or XXXXX!!! after any view that disagrees with them. Of course, I extend that to the forum in general as well, it's just, well, it seems that any kind of good earnest debate always draws flamebaiters, and that hasn't seemed to be the case here....yet. I suppose it's a little easier since it's strictly against the rules and all, but still...

And what do you think? Do you think there is a 4th film unreleased as of yet? I've not really looked into it but I haven't seen much evidence there was. Oliver seems pretty obviously to be a xxxx and the images I've seen of the "Babushka Lady" are not clear enough to say one way or the other. Supposedly witnesses saw her or someone else shooting a fourth film but I haven't seen it. That's not to say it doesn't exist, because as I said before I haven't followed this very much. As for RFK's asssassination I'm not sure I think it might even have been Sirhan but I haven't looked at it very closely either. Unfortunately my sound card isn't working I'll watch the Youtube when I get it fixed. I haven't barely looked into RFK at all, honestly didn't even know he had been assassinated until about this year or so. The theory in that vid and a few others is that the weapon was an automated gun built into the limo itself or something...just sounded interesting and not something I'd heard so thought I'd run it by here. Main question I have now is: is there any clear way to establish convincingly or even prove a motive/single set of motives that got JFK and possibly RFK murdered? I've heard lots of theories but most of them rely on witnesses only or other shaky chains of evidence to string things together. I'm not trying to take a stance on any theories out there, I just wouldn't mind a quick rundown of the currently held to be likely(and the currently totally debunked) theories, and also whether there even is a way to establish motive that strongly in this case, as I feel that legitimizing evidence we already have as well as potentially uncovering new evidence or witnesses would follow the chain of motive, provided we had a solidly provable one.

You seem to always keep your posts on an even keel rather than ranting, that's pretty rare on any net forums these days.

nm, funny vid but inappropriate i would guess for the younger people who might view these forums.

Yeah, that's what I referenced in the JFK forums, it interests me that we apparently still have rights to print metal-backed dollars yet don't. Aren't they then interest free also? Anyways do you think it ties into the motive of why he was killed?

And what do you think? Do you think there is a 4th film unreleased as of yet? Also, a couple of other questions: Do you think the murders of RFK and JFK are related/same perpetrators? what do you think of this theory?

Hey, I've been to some home-brewed constitutional law classes and a lot of websites that claim the Federal Reserve is unconstitutional and has controlled most of our depressions, but I usually find very little evidence, and I've been trying to show a friend who is very intelligent but very skeptical(in the way of denying anything but the mainstream view of things, for instance, his view was "why worry about the federal reserve or the national deficit? it's not like we'll ever have to pay it ourselves anyways"). So, I was wondering if someone could point me to books or(preferably) websites that have the factually based evidence on the Federal Reserve's wrongdoing instead of the rhetoric about it being ungodlike or whatever. Things I know about it so far: --it was built partially as "economy insurance" to protect us from just the kind of economic troubles we are having right now --it is not Federal/Governmental --it is owned by commercial banks in each district, and throughout the world --it "creates money" by how much it lends at what interest, how many stocks bonds it buys/sells, etc, and writes out a "blank check" of interest-free dollars for each expense it's facilities have. --it uses the fractional reserve deposit system in it's loans to normal banks, so as to only have roughly 2% of the money supply in actual existence at any one time(mostly) --it was pushed through without enough senators/congressman, or with the bare minimum, over a holiday, ala the Patriot Act --it(the idea) was sold to our gov't by a central banker from europe --it was created officially in 1913 --it caused the passing of new amendments(indirectly) such as the 16th about income tax, which some debate are even constitutional --it bypassed the requirements of only our congress printing money by using "US Credit Rating" to borrow billions back then at unfeasible interest even today from those banks Things I've heard thirdhand but have not looked up or have not found from a direct source yet: --it demanded all of our gold(in fort knox and elsewhere) and even seized gold from private citizens for it's first interest payment, thus the gold in fort knox may or may not be there, but isn't even ours anymore anyways --it has no clause, stipulation or explanation of how the primary debt can even be paid down in it's creation --it caused the great depression and other collapses by calling in all of it's loans at once, even though it obviously knew noone was in a position to pay them, and then proceeded to speculate in land, more banks, and other ventures --it was involved with switching from gold and silver standard monies to worthless paper credits that "resolve" your debt to the federal reserve when used but are ultimately valueless themselves, in every sense of the word --the IRS are actually it's tax collectors, and thusly, strictly illegal, which is why many have won on a constitutional grounds when not paying income tax --when every child is born, a dummy corporation with it's name in all capital letters is created with it's equal portion of the national debt, as a promissary for work it will do --there are technically 3 gov'ts in effect right now: the constitutional US, the sovereign nation of the United States, and the Federal US, and the way income tax and the national deficit works is to treat us all as indebted merchants under the admiralty law of the Federal Govt, which allows trials only as a privilege, and in which one judge's word is law, rather than a Jury of Judges who interpret within the spirit as well as the letter of the law, as I've been told Constitutional trials did.

And what do you think? Do you think there is a 4th film unreleased as of yet?

That's alright, I figured you thought it was all my post and not the original post with small responses to each paragraph. I just didn't wanna bother quote/unquoting each section.