Brian O Connor
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Posts posted by Brian O Connor
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Yes, you're absolutely right about me referring to the early actions in establishing Israel. Other sites were also proposed. There were splits in the Zionist movement. An interesting comment at the end. Israel is taking on more and more NAZI traits. There still is a militant left Jewsish movement in support of the palestinians and other dispossessed. Extremists are in control at the moment. I suspect that if it was not for outside influence Central Asia would sort out these issues more amicably than the way it is now.
Hi John, if we are talking about the early period then we will just have to disagree.
Although, someone said that as Moses had taken them 40 years up dead ends and back again then his route over Uganda might also have worked. But, the idea of Palestine as the true home of Israel is one that cant be argued with today.
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Fascinating , Brian.
I' like to look at Zionism as opposed to Judaism, which in many ways inherently has hall marks of a communal lifestyle and look at Zionism as a means to an end.
Those who could then move into the conditions created by the application of Zionism (which can be seen as an act of terrorism) need not be Zionists at all.
If we are talking about Kibbutzes and such, they have a security exonomic necessity that drives them as a model, I think. More later.
On topic. Hitlers psychology. The conclusions catch me of course by surprise, but also not as I've had some experience working with people in this spectrum. The wiki article actually describes his conclusion with : ''autistic psychopathy (as)described by Hans Asperger''
I'd say that sums up the hypothesis forming in my mind.
The causes of autism is a subject under intense discussion continuously as there are many persons struggling with it and no one seems to have a definite answer. Personally, through my experience, diet in many instances can affect the severity of the syndrome but not necessarily ''cure'' it. One strand of thought is that it has to do with a kind of irritable bowel syndrome (not only deep in the body also deep in the psyche) that can be dealt with by such things as abstaining from certain foods. Perhaps being highly functioning and or having some guidance at some point this led to his rigid food intake regime. That (autism) plus psychosis (for perhaps whatever reason) perhaps is the road to the answer of the topic?
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edit add: a minor Q : why do you say ""supposedly'' controllable?
Hi John, I don’t know enough about autism to be able to offer any opinion for the moment.
Regarding “the application of Zionism”, at least during its infancy in the period of the1880s up to the mid 1930s, I cannot agree that it in any way equates to terrorism. In fact, I believe that the philosophy of Zionism and the ideal behind the founding of the State of Israel was one of peaceful settlement, non confrontation, tolerance of and accommodation with those non Jews affected by the foundation of the State.
But, you are probably talking about the period since then and up to the present.
The late 30s up to `48 including a “dirty war” between Jewish militants responding to Arab nationalist attacks is a murky period and there were horrific atrocities committed by both sides. I think that a mistake was made in not partitioning the country in 1948, but this was not agreeable to the Arab side, which refused to accept an independent Israel, and thought it could solve the problem through war.
For me, the term Zionist stands today, for Israeli nationalism and Israel’s right to exist and defend itself. I am not defending Israel’s stance on settlements or its actions during the Intifadas or the Lebanon invasion, and I know that you will find many Zionists who are appalled and ashamed by this as well.
Probably more important than searching for a reason behind Schickelgrubers insanity, maybe I should have looked at the trauma suffered by Israelis today, born into the world to find out that their people have been discriminated against and persecuted for millennia, pogrom after pogrom, culminating in the holocaust.
Just saw the "Edit"; I meant that Hitlers industrialist financial backers may well have believed that he could be kept in check and would be a more advantageous prospect than the communist alternative they feared. And, that maybe not recognising his hold on the Nazis, probably assumed that he would be prevented from carrying out his more extreme policies.
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''Hi Brian. yes that study (I came across it in Wild Bill Donovans archive) is quite remarkable in many ways given it dates from earlier in the war. It actually predicts correctly what his end could be.
But we're really focusing at the pre WWI Hitler in the final analysis (at this point)?''
''Hi John, you`re right and I haven't been able to find the WW1 catastrophic battle event which might have triggered or caused Hitlers lust for revenge.
I have now returned to thinking that the period around the time of his birth and up to the war is just as important in understanding the development of his character and state of mind. The period was marked by an upsurge in and continued anti-Semitism throughout Austria and Europe. The world Zionist conferences began and the development of socialist Zionism continued to grow during the 1880`s and afterwards (an amazingly utopian idea and the model for the rebirth of Israel). I suppose that Hitlers need to blame others for his own shortcomings* will have found an easy scapegoat in the Jews and the Jewish socialist politics which he hated. (There is also the theory that his mother was in the care of a Jewish doctor at the time of her death and that this contributed to his hatred).
But, I have to agree that the conclusion is, that the root cause of his hatred lay in the perceived treachery of the surrender and the oppressive nature of the Versailles settlement, with all of his other pent up angers and humiliations finally finding vent in his need to revenge these events.''
*I think this is a key. IMO most people do this, many have various pre judices, but Adolf Shickelgrubers (16 part Jew) was extreme, indicating an abnormal psychology.
I see his art as similar to that of an idiot savant, which is not to say he was an Idiot in the true sense of the word, but his focus for it to have any impact necessitates support and financial support is ultimately a very important one. For example his backers I don't regard as anything more than Capitalists doing what they do and it was likely in their interest to promote him to not only the public but also to him himself. IOW his yearning to be an equal to such as Speer plus his god complex made him malleable to others less abnormal.
Where this abnormality came from I don't think has to do with the wider situation he found himself in in his youth but had a root cause before this, (and one could argue if not him, it would have been someone else). Millions of children had lost a father figure and the economic situation was extreme hyper inflation. Hitler solved it by disposessing a huge number of people who fit a common grouping but one mustn't forget that FIRST he had to eradicate his main opposition, the Communists who were for a time the main opposition grouping in German politics. (edit add: and in Mein Kamph writes that ultimately it is the Bolcheviks, ie the USSR, that must be dealt with, which was prob music to the ears of western industrialists, who'd lost the post revolution (which brought an end to WWI) Red-White War.)
I guess what I'm trying to bring into this is a pre existing abnormality AND economics.
I'm aware of the Zionist manifesto, but I've never regarded it as a socialist document.
What do you mean by this? ''socialist Zionism''
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edit add: Brian, have you ever come across a hypothesis that he may have been a highly functioning autist? The autistic spectrum is very wide associated also with other challenges for the autistic person and the common (mis)conception is often a stereotype.
Hi John, I agree Hitler and the Nazis were welcome allies to the industrialists worried at the growing strength of communism during the 20`s and early 30`s and the implications for them if communism were to gain superiority. They were happy supporting the supposedly controllable Hitler.
When I say “socialist” Zionism, I mean "my" interpretation of the philosophic principles behind and the method by which Zionists proposed to achieve the establishment of the State of Israel.
The first pioneer communities and settlements in Palestine were a pooling of the individuals resources and labour with each individual receiving a share of the product according to his needs. A philosophy developed in response to and in spite of centuries of terrible discrimination and violence against the Jews, who seeking emancipation for themselves developed a utopian ideal of communal living and self help with tolerance of outsiders. Other Jews disagreed with the idea of a solely nationalist solution, and like Trotsky sought, an international socialist revolution.
I looked up Hitler and Autism on Wikipedia and came across this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%...h#Mental_health , where Michael Fitzgerald, an expert in autism spectrum disorders concuded that Hitlers profile fits all the criteria of Asparagers syndrome.
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Hi Brian. yes that study (I came across it in Wild Bill Donovans archive) is quite remarkable in many ways given it dates from earlier in the war. It actually predicts correctly what his end could be.
But we're really focusing at the pre WWI Hitler in the final analysis (at this point)?
Hi John, you`re right and I haven't been able to find the WW1 catastrophic battle event which might have triggered or caused Hitlers lust for revenge.
I have now returned to thinking that the period around the time of his birth and up to the war is just as important in understanding the development of his character and state of mind. The period was marked by an upsurge in and continued anti-Semitism throughout Austria and Europe. The world Zionist conferences began and the development of socialist Zionism continued to grow during the 1880`s and afterwards (an amazingly utopian idea and the model for the rebirth of Israel). I suppose that Hitlers need to blame others for his own shortcomings will have found an easy scapegoat in the Jews and the Jewish socialist politics which he hated. (There is also the theory that his mother was in the care of a Jewish doctor at the time of her death and that this contributed to his hatred).
But, I have to agree that the conclusion is, that the root cause of his hatred lay in the perceived treachery of the surrender and the oppressive nature of the Versailles settlement, with all of his other pent up angers and humiliations finally finding vent in his need to revenge these events.
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Just some immediate thoughts. Rule in the age of Gods: an ancient chinese tradition was that anyone considered for furthering or establishing a new dynasty must have a divine prophesy. If there isn't one readily at hand, make one.
''Hitler, given his personality'' I think is key here.
Many soldiers had seemingly divinely inteventions in their lives, surviving in many incredible ways but didn''t seek to usurp that God.. Hitlers stories are relatively lame, but not for him.
Many in the trenches neither really wanted to kill, or die. Hitler makes a big thing of human compassion as if it is personal.
I have wondered in the past if Hitler didn't frag the bunker, I don't know, either way it might indicate some schizophrenia : hearing voices.
Hi again John, came accross this on the great Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analysis_of_t...f_Adolph_Hitler
Analysis of the Personality of Adolph Hitler
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Analysis of the Personality of Adolph [sic] Hitler: With Predictions of His Future Behavior and Suggestions for Dealing with Him Now and After Germany's Surrender was a report was prepared by Henry A. Murray for the United States Office of Strategic Services during World War II.
see
http://library.lawschool.cornell.edu/WhatW...er-Section1.pdf
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OK, I see my initial mistake. I've got the context, but not the letter properly translated into english. Sorry about drifting off track. I think this is also a period when one could consider the economy in Germany at the time. Fascism in its propaganda seeks to appeal to both the masters of industry and authority and to the wage slaves, (Hence National Socialist), which was a relatively latter grouping in Germany because of its belated union of feudal kingdoms.. I think the answer lies in who sponsored Hitler as well as in what the end of the war meant to Hitler, like: what did he feel he lost as a consequence?. Perhaps he saw it as a thwarted opportunity to become a warrior king that he imagined resided in himself (napoleonic complex) plus the reason so many attempts have been made to take control over the enormous resources that the USSR posessed?
edit:typo
Hi John, came accross two specific events which seem to have helped convincing Hitler that he was on the path of destiny .
http://www.firstworldwar.com/features/aslowfuse.htm
"Hitler, given his personality, became obsessed (obsessed even in the eyes of fellow veterans!) with an idea that he was being preserved by a divine force. Later, as Fuhrer, he would emphasise a number of examples that backed his beliefs. In the first case, Hitler recalled how a mysterious voice had told him to leave a crowded dugout during a minor barrage. Within minutes of walking out into the trenches an incoming shell flattened the bunker killing all of its occupants.
The second and even stranger event occurred either at the beginning or the end of the war (records are confused). Private Henry Tandey, a highly decorated British soldier, was presented with a clear shot of Hitler trying to get back to his lines.
Instead of pulling the trigger, the Englishman let him go - a moment of compassion that perversely sentenced the world to further suffering. Hitler, having seen Tandey lower his rifle, felt that the gods of war had intervened on his behalf and, strange as it may seem, had a picture of his 'saviour' hung on a wall at Berchtesgaden."
Will get around to the chapter on Stalins plan to attack Germany soon ( sorry, I am a bit stuck for time at the moment)
See you
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Hi John, the letter can be found in "Hess: Schicksal in Briefen" page 18/19
Hess, Rudolf - Hess, Ilse:
ENGLAND NÜRNBERG SPANDAU. Ein Schicksal in Briefen.
Leoni, Druffel.Verlag 1967.
Otherwise, to be seen in "Botengang Eines Toren" Rainer F Schmidt page 53/54
The Soviet attack plans are discussed in "Botengang Eines Toren" (A fools errand)
Chapter 8 Zwischen Abwarten und Angriff- Stalins Antwort auf den Hess-Flug.
(Caught between waiting and attack- Stalins answer to the Hess flight)
Page 262 discusses the troop movements on the Soviet side:
The situation in the west had radically changed by may 1941 with the reckless withdrawal of troops and divisions from the Asia and the Caucuses.
Keitel noted that the number of Rifle divisions in the west had risen from 77 to 143 between Autumn 1939 and 01 May 1941.
From these, 119 divisions were to be found in the German Russian border area.
But, more pronounced was the increase in Tank brigades and tank divisions with nearly all known motorised and tank divisions, a further 20 cavalry divisions and many parachute battalions having advanced into White Russia.
This remained the situation until the Hess flight, but by the 20th of May the "Fremde Heer Ost" were able to confirm that the mass of Soviet units of around 130 Rifle divisions, as well as 21 cavalry, 5 tank and 36 motorised tank divisions had moved into the Odessa Murmansk western border area.
I will read the chapter again and try a synopsis soon.
On Hess and Speer; well both deserved the noose as far as I am concerned.
Speer managed to convince the judges that he was a "good" Nazi, who somehow overlooked his demands on Fritz Sauckel, hanging Sauckel instead of, rather than together with him.
Hess too, got better than he deserved, and remained the convinced Nazi and Hitler devotee till the end.
His responsibility for Nazi crimes before the war and up to his departure for Scotland would be sufficient for a death sentence, in my opinion.
I have never seriously considered the stay behind scenario. No doubt, there many who, like Himmler, were deluded enough to think, that there would be a regime change with the old order remaining.
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Paul? ...
Brian, I have not read Mein Kampf. I am aware of it. I've read sections and accounts of it. I can readily access a copy and in time refer to it. (the first and last time I tried to read it was in my youth. I found it to be repetitive propagandish nationalistic supremacist emotive drivel of the foulest kind and have no interest in it except as a historical artifact.)
At the same time I'm a pacifist and anti capital punishment for ANY reason. I'm also realist enough to recognise that as an ideal of a flawed human.
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At the moment, without referring to Mein Kampf on my part, I wonder whether you factor in the relatively recent formation of Germany as a united Nation as opposed to a coalition of Kingdoms of which Bavaria, Prussia, and others contributed particular qualities.
The death for the fatherland syndrome, in a form, was deeply instilled in the minds of many.
The revolution Hitler refers to is the Russian Revolution of 1917 that lead to cessation of fire. (WWI).
The years that followed were years of turmoil (look at Rosa Luxembourg and co (even the Wobblies in the US).
Germany signed the Versaille documents.
I think he held a number (incl Hess) to be friends and acted accordingly. Hess could perhaps seen to be a person who saw a personal advantage in cultivating this. Possibly this could feed a god complex.
I don't believe people are born with a destiny of evil.
Stalin:
(Again, not referring to MK). With the absence of Trotsky as the head of the Red Army, duties fell to other brilliant military strategists. The Soviets had basically already perfected the Blitzkrieg in defeating the Go Northists of Japan in the far east and its armaments were spread across the giant Soviet landmass as OP Barbarossa drew closer.
The intial tactic was to form self strenthening buffers that synchronously grew stronger as one withdrew into the next (combined witha scorched earth policy) and so on, while Hitlers rapid advance stetched the supply lines.
In the end Leningrad became the testing ground and it's here where German Generals conspired to permit a Finnish conspiracy to keep the Soviet supply lines open.
Basically the end of that conflict was the end of the war.
A few weeks later, the allies bagan the race for Berlin, from Normandy, where (Berlin) they sat back for three days while the Red Army took the city with 300 000 casualties, (half of all US pacific and european war total),
well by then Hitler was dead and the rest is another story.
I don't know whether Stalin was an impediment to this incredibly sacrficing conflict (USSR total war casualties variously numbered at around 35 million.) I know the eastern front was not exactly a theatre of choice for combatants.
edit:typos
edit add: In the ''Wild Bill'' Donovan's online archive is an interesting psychological analysis of Hitler compiled relatively early in the war (WWII).
Apologies John, don't know how that happened, but got your name right in the postscript at least
. However, I was not referring to MK , which is as you say, a total waste of loo paper.The book I was referring to is by Prof Schmidt and his investigation of the Hess Flight "Botengang einen Toren" which might be translated as "A fools errand". It has not been published in English.
Mentioned there is the letter written by Hess and describing the scene in Landsberg prison and it finishes with the quote " I adore him" supporting your proposition that Hess fed Hitlers God complex.
Reading the book, I was left with the opinion that Hess was more the lapdog than the friend in their relationship. And apart from Hitlers mother, Geli Raubal, and Eva Braun, I don't know that Hitler ever had a serious human relationship that caused him any grief at its loss. Hence, the question as to how Hitler could appoint himself an avenger of dead comrades with whom it appears he had no human bond.
I agree that the surrender and Versailles settlement were at the root of the em bitterness which eventually led to the 2nd WW. But in Hitlers case it seems to me that the fanaticism for revenge was something more. I am certainly not trying to find an excuse for him, it just seems to me that his megalomaniac illness was worse than that of his co conspirators, and I wonder were it stemmed from.
Prof Schmidts book continues with an investigation of the political and psychological impact the Hess flight had on Stalin. The Russians had refused all requests from Britain to join in alliance against Hitler, but it appears from the evidence he lays out based on the memoirs of many Soviet and German military leaders, that Stalin was not quite so naive and was preparing to make a pre-emptive strike on Germany.
So, if Prof Schmidt is correct the idea that Stalins plan was to retreat, leaving a wilderness to the advancing Wehrmacht, was not the case, but in fact quite the opposite.
Stalins delay in carrying out the attack was based on his belief that Hitler wouldn't make the same mistake as in WW1 and fight on two fronts, and that he therefore could choose his time.
The Wehrmacht had identified the configuration of Soviet troops and warned Hitler that these could be changed from a defensive to an offensive position at any time.
The logistics of this still required some weeks, but Stalin was convinced that these were available, and continued the cat and mouse game supplying Germany with raw materials, but biding his time.
Sorry, for the misunderstanding it seems that we we were talking about two different things; a book and a bog roll.
Afraid I cant go with you on the capital punishment thing; at least not in the case of genocide.
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Thanks Paul and thanks Pamela,
I was struck by the quote about Hitler’s promised retribution and wondered how he could see himself somehow appointed to exact revenge.
The “stab in the back” syndrome seems to be common to the virulence which affected all Nazis. But, reading the revenge quote, I am wondering if some other cataclysmic event during the war or the attrition of war itself had been responsible for Hitler’s state of mind in particular.
Somehow, the quote about merciless vengeance and the presence of his dead comrades at his day of reckoning leaves me thinking, that he saw himself as a latter-day Goel (or maybe not) taking blood retribution on their behalf, and that the monster might have been born out of personal loss he had suffered in the trenches. (It’s odd; when one considers that excepting his mother, possibly his niece Geli Raubal or maybe Eva Braun he doesn’t seem to have been close to anyone during his life). And, I don’t know that there is any indication that he had any close friends or human relationships during the war, and whose loss might somehow have led to him assuming their cause, or invested him in his crusade of revenge?
Throughout his career Hitler constantly refers to the divine providence which has led him to his mission, but did he have an epiphany or was he simply born evil?
p.s John, I see that you have read the book. What did you think of the Stalin preparations to attack Germany ? I have not seen this discussed elsewhere ?
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The following excerpt is taken from Prof. Rainer F. Schmidt`s book on the Hess flight (Botengang einen Toren), and describes a scene between Hess and Hitler during their time in Landsberg prison. Hitler and Hess were working on his book Mein Kampf.
The passage is taken from a letter written by Rudolf Hess to Ilsa; the woman he later married, and may help in understanding the development of Hitlers character and state of mind, the trauma he suffered during the Great War and its contributory influence on his later actions.
I would be interested to hear member’s views on it.
When I brought him his tea at lunchtime, he signalled that I should stay; I should listen to a corrected passage: Political observations on the beginning of the Great War, the convulsion of and darkening clouds on the horizon, until the lightening burst of the catastrophe strikes ground, and the clash of thunder mixes with the howl of the artillery salvos.
He tells of his joining up with the Bavarian army, of marching out of barracks, the journey along the Rhein, the train with the young recruits passing the Niederwald monument gleaming in the sun through a thin mist of fog, then, the marching song “Wacht am Rhein” breaking forth from the lads mouths- and shortly thereafter in Flanders, the first whistling greetings of war, singing back to them in reply.
Suddenly, from the far right, a ringing, at first only a murmur, but growing louder and closer “Deutschland Deutschland uber Alles”, again and again, new mouths taking up the anthem, passing it on, until the whole front is one voice, in a storm of song.
But, between the columns of singers the whipping of the sheaves, flattening Germanys young blooms. The tribune had now begun to read more slowly, stuttering, with blank expression on his face, it appeared to me as if he were searching for, had become lost in his thoughts, he made longer and longer pauses, then letting the page drop, he fell silently weeping, his head in his hands.
- At this moment my own composure was also at an end, but do I need to tell you that!
Then he spoke a few words of the incomparable heroism of our boys, of his own battles and suffering, and then of the treachery at home, “ Oh! when the day finally arrives, when I have the chance, what a terrible and merciless retribution will I take !”
“I will take revenge in the name of the dead, who I see then, standing before me!”
At the end of his account, nothing more was spoken between us; but as I was leaving we offered and silently clasped hands with one another.
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Sid,
I agree with you- the treatment of Hess was shameful. If he truly was on a peace mission, then the Allies should have thought of him as a "good" nazi, instead of punishing him in a vicious, unprecedented manner. What other prisoner (outside perhaps the "man in the iron mask") has ever had a prison to himself for several decades, as Hess did at Spandau? As I understand it, the authorities only permitted him a token family visit once per month, and the same person couldn't come twice in a row. They also rotated the guards constantly, who all spoke different languages, in an attempt to limit his ability to form a relationship with anyone. That is cruel and unusual punishment, indeed. Considering that Hess lived to be over 90, it is very, very strange that no one wanted to interview him in depth during all that time. Historians lost a golden opportunity to record the thoughts of one of Hitler's top aides, still alive decades after the end of WWII. What were they afraid he might say? Or were they just ashamed to publicize their disgraceful treatment of this pathetic old man? It's a sad but fascinating story.
I too once thought that Hess´s treatment was shameful, but I have thankfully woken up from this naivety and realised that there can be no redemption for a person of his conviction. He was part of the group of thugs which introduced the Nuremberg laws and supported all that went with it, remaining a convinced nazi till he died. There is no indication that Hess was trying to stop the war with his flight to Scotland, but a lot pointing to an attempt to make the Russland Feldzug easier by negotiating agreement with whover in Scotland.
We have got to stop thinking of these murderers in terms of who was more or less responsible for their horrific crimes. The fact that some were more brutal than others does not diminish the culpability of any of them.
Every single one of them should have swung !
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Oops! Link not working
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Adele and Jack, I appreciate your taking so much time for me. May I ask if there are any references available to the court cases where Tom Wilsons expertise was called upon?
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Hi Peter, and Hi Adele, like Jonathan I would like to think that this is the Rosetta stone, and as William points out 17 years is quite a stretch.
I would think too, that with the advances in computer technology since then, the replication process should be much easier ?
Not raising doubts for the sake of it, just looking for a satisfactory solution, that hopefully, the 2nd edition will provide.
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Hi Adele, Jack and Peter, and thanks but... and sorry for being so crass, but wouldn't controlled experiments, carried out under the auspices of an independent 3rd party work just as well , explain the technology and prove the theory:
A badgeman wearing a particular design badge, a cadaver with painted and real wounds, hidden electronic equipment, photos and film altered from the originals, and all tested and exposed using the photonic system.
All I`m saying is that the book, if its meant for the general readership rather than informed experts then this sort of explanation should be /might better have been included.
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Finally got hold of the book, but have to say I`m disappointed with the explanation of the science behind the technology.
Surely a chapter proving the system should be included.
I'd have to agree. I am not yet finished with the book but so far I am finding the science behind it somewhat dubious. For one thing, Wilson appears to have not used any original photographs or negatives for his analysis ... he is using copies out of books and VHS tapes. Would be interested to hear further discussion about all of this.
Completely wrong! .....
Further, I'm a scientist, and there is nothing wrong with his science or technique, in theory. I don't know where you got that he used photos out of books or tapes.....you ought to question that source of information....as they are either mis-informed or working hard at disinfo against Tom. Tom Wilson was meticulous to a fault! The book doesn't go into details on his technique nor meticulousness. I know it first-hand.
It is meant as a book the general public can also understand and appreciate. He was approved to use his techniques as an expert witness in court cases! Further, U.S. Steel had him using his technique for steel quality control for many years until his retirement!...put that in your pipe and smoke it!
Hi Jonathan, and Hi Peter, the problem is I`m not a scientist, and while I believe you Peter when you say you know Toms meticulousness first hand, that isn't the point. He didn't need to write the book for you; you already understand the process.
I need to understand a bit more and like most lay people who don't have your expertise, I need a little more than faith in your word to go on.
I am not questioning your integrity, simply pointing out that the public aren't going to appreciate his work without understanding the science behind it.
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Finally got hold of the book, but have to say I`m disappointed with the explanation of the science behind the technology.
Surely a chapter proving the system should be included. The steel plate defect example is a bit "thin", and when I discussed this with a friend, a former aircraft mechanic with experience of testing aircraft machinery he laughed me out.
The whole theory stands or falls on a controlled proof of the science supporting it.
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And why Dealey Plaza? Of all the places an assassin could get to JFK, Dealey Plaza hardly seems like a assassin friendly shooting range.....
Why Dealey Plaza? Simple. The opportunistic assassin just happened to work there. If the motorcade hadn't passed the TSBD on 22 November 1963, JFK might still be alive today.
Hi Paul, I read somewhere that LHO had also applied for and was offered a job at Lovefield airport but turned it down because he had just started work at the TBD. I have searched for the reference but cant find it; maybe someone else has come across this curious coincidence as well ?
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Hi Joe, the place to look for this I believe is, "The Defense of Berlin" by Professor Jean Edward Smith published 1963. This is about the best account of the division of Germany and Berlin and the politics behind it, I have come accross.
I have lent my copy to a friend but will get hold of it during the week and post any relevant info I find.
See you
Brian
It seems the US response began on the Sunday evening 22nd when Alan Leightner the Deputy Chief of station traveled with his wife into E. Berlin and the confrontation began in earnest when the Volkspolizie demanded to see ID papers when he tried again on the Monday.
The Sunday confrontation led to the US rolling 4 M48 tanks from the 2nd battle group and 2 armoured personnel trucks up to the checkpoint, ordered there by the Provost Marshall.
The 10 tanks arrived at the checkpoint on the following Wednesday morning at 10:30-10:50.
I will scan the relevant pages and send them on to you when i get hold ogf the book.
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Hi Bernice, and Hi David, and thanks to you both. I will be sticking with it, but hope to be a little more diligent in the presentation in future.
"Make haste slowly"
All the best
Brian
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Hi Bernice, I have seen Paul Rigby`s thread and admire and respect his resolve in defending his ideas. On the other hand, I accept that many of the arguments offered by Pauls opponents apply to my proposition, and particularly those which claim that maybe, such theorising undermines the investigation. More important though, Tim Gratz, questions the morality of accusing two deceased SS officers on the basis of a hunch or suspicion and considering that I can offer no evidence to support it, I unreservedly withdraw my accusation.
I have been accused of hijacking this thread, but would like to reiterate that "Chittybangbang" by side, the position taken up by the UM if he is signalling to a shooter then this is a valid argument in favour of the throat shot originating in a narrow field between the Stemmons sign and the limousine.
Regards to those members who have defended the right to free speech.
Brian
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I think you already realise from previous posts that I personally dont go along with your theory. But I wouldn't dream of trying to stop you presenting it. Brian, as long as its withing the forum rules, I would encourage you to post what you want, when you want. Denis.
Thanks Denis, its reassuring to know that the spirit of Voltaire or Evelyn Beatrice Hall, is still alive + kicking "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Not asking you to go that far all the same!
Thanks again
Brian
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Blair
So just stop wasting our time with it. If you continue, be assured I will tear it to shreds.
YOU ARE A BULLY, AND I WILL PERSIST REGARDLESS OF WHETHER OR NOT IT OFFENDS YOUR "SUPERIOR" INTELLIGENCE
and no need to point out the cap lock to me either!
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One that I watched, I can't remember it's daft title, but it contained something dramatic in order to perhaps shock us into obedience(?), even had the gall to keep blatanly making definite 'factual' statements which denied anything other than the square peg into the round hole, ie. Oswald was a Communist, came back to the USA, bought a gun, got a job overlooking the Plaza and fired his amazingly accurate shots into the President from afar...in record time.
CIA spin?
Why on earth do they even bother? Most Americans (and world populus?), according to endless polls, do not believe the fantastic Warren Report?
Hi John, but isn't the fact that there are still many many people still believing the WR (and I know quite a few), the more astonishing statistic.
Brian
. However, I was not referring to MK , which is as you say, a total waste of loo paper.
Hitlers psychological make up
in Nazi Germany
Posted
Hi John, I think that Autism is a possible explanation and well worth further investigation.
On the Zionist movement, I believe that the original principles and the ideal were honestly held and intended to be fulfilled in a peaceful and accommodating way in harmony with the Palestinians. Conflict and change occurred in the 20s and 30s with Arab agitation and Jewish reprisals by militant groups such as the Stern and Irgun groups. And, the conflict continues today.
The Palestinian homeland issue needs to be resolved, but when the opportunity was given the neighbouring Arab States couldn’t agree; to me it seems that for the most part all that they can agree on is their animosity towards Israel.
Sorry, still haven’t gotten round to reading the chapter on Stalins plans to attack Germany in `41, but will get back to you on this.