Todd W. Vaughan

Robin, that Officer D.V. Harkness (thank you Todd) must be the cop in Bronson as well, ergo Hughes must be in the LOS from Bronson's POV. Possibly the man with the black jacked without hat? Martin In Hughes, Harkness lines up with the mullion between the first two windows of the courthouse on it's south facade and north of it's southwest corner. Given that, I believe that the tall man in the light blue shirt just to the left of Jackie in Bronson is Hughes. To his left are several men in blue/grey hats who could be responsible for the blue/grey object in the forground in the later frames. The blue/gray oval is RETOUCHING, not the hat of a person. I don't agree at all. Who cares? Well, apparently you do, Jack, as you're the one who's trying to tell me it's retouching.

Robin, that Officer D.V. Harkness (thank you Todd) must be the cop in Bronson as well, ergo Hughes must be in the LOS from Bronson's POV. Possibly the man with the black jacked without hat? Martin In Hughes, Harkness lines up with the mullion between the first two windows of the courthouse on it's south facade and north of it's southwest corner. Given that, I believe that the tall man in the light blue shirt just to the left of Jackie in Bronson is Hughes. To his left are several men in blue/grey hats who could be responsible for the blue/grey object in the forground in the later frames. The blue/gray oval is RETOUCHING, not the hat of a person. I don't agree at all.

John, It's an interesting question. On Duncan's forum Martin and I spent a lot of the time in the car park so he has a lot of knowledge and might be willing to help out. Consider this photo by Murray which we determined was taken from the north east wall of the pergola. Also, have you looked over CE 2118? Somewhere on my computer there's a Mark Lane photo from the tower but.... Bernice? Help? But, even if we decide that Bowers could have seen it, it doesn't mean he didn't see it just because he didn't report it. Jerry In that Murray photo, in the background, just to the left of Bowers tower, is Harkness on his 3 wheel motorcycle cycle.

Yes Todd, i think thats possible. In particular when looking at the first Hughes frame (man with yellow coat) If thats the case, i think we see the back of Bothun (below of yellow coat officer) best Martin The man in the yellow coat is DPD officer W.H. Denham.

Robin, that Officer D.V. Harkness (thank you Todd) must be the cop in Bronson as well, ergo Hughes must be in the LOS from Bronson's POV. Possibly the man with the black jacked without hat? Martin In Hughes, Harkness lines up with the mullion between the first two windows of the courthouse on it's south facade and north of it's southwest corner. Given that, I believe that the tall man in the light blue shirt just to the left of Jackie in Bronson is Hughes. To his left are several men in blue/grey hats who could be responsible for the blue/grey object in the forground in the later frames.

A few more frames John. That's DPD Sgt and 3-wheel cycle officer D.V. Harkness (call sign 260) standing with his hands behind his back. His 3 wheel motorcycle is to his left and is visible in a few frames as Hughes pans left.

I beleive that Dick Sprague identified them as the Hesters back in the 70's.

Jack, Todd's note starts 'Professor Fetzer' - is it possible Todd is quoting Fetzer and not you? It is possible. He does not write well. The communication was directed at me. No, Jack, you simply do not read well. I clearly stated that "This was a post to Dr. Fetzer..." It starts out with "Professor Fetzer". I then addresss Professor Fetzer as "you", since I am writing to him. When I begin talking to Professor Fetzer about you, Jack White, I cleary write "Shortly after this Jack White approached me..." I notice not a peep out of Jack regarding his error in reading my post. Why am I not surprised?

Thanks, Joe It seems that Fetzer and Horne, in their zeal to convince everyone the autopsy photos and Z-film are fake, have put words into the mouth of Mrs. Kennedy, so they can then claim the photos and film are in conflict with her testimony. From Part III Fetzer - And, of course, as we know from Jackie’s own testimony she said from the front he looked just fine- Horne - That’s right. Fetzer - but she had a terrible time holding the back of his head and skull together. Horne - Correct WRONG. Here is her actual testimony... (When asked if she remembered Secret Service Agent Clint Hill's climbing onto the limo after she climbed out the back.) "I don't remember anything. I was just down like that. And finally I remember a voice behind me, or something, and then I remember the people in the front seat, or somebody, finally knew something was wrong, and a voice yelling, which must have been Mr. Hill, "Get to the hospital," or maybe it was Mr. Kellerman, in the front seat. But someone yelling. I was just down and holding him. I was trying to hold his hair on. But from the front there was nothing. I suppose there must have been. But from the back you could see, you know, you were trying to hold his hair on, and his skull on.” There is nothing in this to say the wound was on the back of Kennedy's skull; it merely implied the wound was not visible when looking at his face. It could just as easily have been on the top of his head. In fact, that's where Mrs. Kennedy said it was a week after the shooting, months prior to her WC testimony. 11-29-63 interview with Theodore White, notes released 5-26-95) “They were gunning the motorcycles; there were these little backfires; there was one noise like that; I thought it was a backfire. Then next I saw Connally grabbing his arm and saying no no nononono, with his fist beating—then Jack turned and I turned—all I remember was a blue gray building up ahead, then Jack turned back, so neatly; his last expression was so neat; he had his hand out, I could see a piece of his skull coming off; it was flesh colored not white—he was holding out his hand—and I can see this perfectly clean piece detaching itself from his head; then he slumped in my lap.” (When describing the immediate aftermath of the shots) "All the ride to the hospital, I kept bending over him saying, "Jack, Jack, can you hear me, I love you, Jack." I kept holding the top of his head down trying to keep the..." (When describing her husband's condition upon arrival at the hospital) "From here down"--and here she made a gesture indicating her husband's forehead--"his head was so beautiful. I'd tried to hold the top of his head down, maybe I could keep it in...I knew he was dead." Pat, Jackie mentions seeing a "blue gray building up ahead". Since nothing like that appears in the Dealey Plaza photos, all of the photos must have been altered to remove the blue gray building that was ahead of the limo on Elm Street. Todd

"Everytime Fetzer refers to himself, his books, his conference, and his podcast, always in the most (cough) humble of terms (cough) have a drink. Enjoy!" Hilarious! I'd add in every time he refers to JFK as "Jack" and says "cognitively impaired".

Jack, Todd's note starts 'Professor Fetzer' - is it possible Todd is quoting Fetzer and not you? It is possible. He does not write well. The communication was directed at me. No, Jack, you simply do not read well. I clearly stated that "This was a post to Dr. Fetzer..." It starts out with "Professor Fetzer". I then addresss Professor Fetzer as "you", since I am writing to him. When I begin talking to Professor Fetzer about you, Jack White, I cleary write "Shortly after this Jack White approached me..."

Todd said years ago that he took a look through their transit and that it was fairly close as as the horizontal (left and right) axis went but was off in terms of the vertical (up and down) axis. I hope Todd might give us his own account. Josiah Thompson You might want to get an opinion from Stewart Galanor. He was there and was dubious about the experiment. He looked thru the transit after Mantik found the line of sight. He suggested a very minor adjustment. David made the adjustment, and Stewart agreed about the lineup. Vaughan came over and wanted to look, although none of us knew who he was. He looked without any comment to any of us. Any comments from him will be a dozen years late. Jack. Your claims about me at the experiment are simply not true. I had met both you and Dr. Mantik some years previously. I had never met Fetzer. I had met Galanor earlier in the week. I talked to you, Dr. Mantik and Fetzer, in that order. I did not talk to Galanor who during the experiment was wandering around the south-most lane of Elm Street trying to direct traffic out of that lane. My conversations with both you and Fetzer were rather brief. You and I specifically talked about the Moorman blow-up you were using for the pedestal line-up. I specifically asked you why it had a brown, sepia like color tone to it. You more-or-less blew me off. Fetzer was rather stand-offish and confrontational, for some reason not discussing the experiment but rather demanding to know what I did for a living and where I worked. Dr. Mantik, however, was as gentlemanly and as cordial as ever and invited me to look through the transit, which I did (I did not “come over and (want) to look” as you falsely claim - I was invited to look). I told him that the alignment was very close horizontally (left and right) but was off vertically because it did not account for the gap. I wrote up the entire experience and posted it on the DellaRossa board a few days after I returned from Dallas. I believe that I still have that write up and will post it here when I find it. Todd How in the world could you WRITE UP THE ENTIRE EXPERIMENT??????? You were not ANY part of participating in it. You were a bystander. Nobody but 3 of us, plus Stewart Galanor, who asked to come along, even were aware of what we were doing. WHAT WERE YOU EVEN DOING THERE? WHO TOLD YOU ABOUT IT? It was being done confidentially. Who tipped you off so that you could be a bystander. Why are you injecting yourself as a PARTICIPANT? As I recall, I rented the transit at Home Depot on Saturday and met Mantik and Fetzer in the plaza ON SUNDAY MORNING WHEN THE PLAZA WOULD BE DESERTED. Fetzer and Mantik had talked to Galanor in the hotel and allowed him to come along. The plaza was almost deserted. Mantik and Fetzer devised the experiment. I took lots of photos. A small crowd gathered to watch us. You say you ware part of that crowd, but I was not aware of anyone there that I knew. Just how did you know to come there and were there others with you, and who were they? I ask again...how did you know we were there, and how could you "write up the experiment" of which you knew nothing????? now this is getting interesting, Todd? Regardless of Todd's alleged "write-up" of the experiment by Fetzer and Mantik, I suggest that anyone wanting to know about the experiment as done by them go to: http://www.jfkresearch.com/Moorman/ There is a complete and accurate "write-up". Jack Jack, Below is the write up of my experience while observing the Moorman experiment. This was a post to Dr. Fetzer on the DellaRossa forum that I first wrote up as a Word document before posting and then saved it. The date on the Word Document is 3 December 2001. You’ll see that I quote the conversation that you and I had. Todd QUOTE ON Professor Fetzer, I came down to Dealey Plaza on 16 November 2001 while the experiment was obviously underway. I stood back a ways and just observed, taking it all in. Tony Cummings, whom I had first met a few days earlier, came up to me and we chatted a bit. He then moved away, and I continued to view the experiment. Tony soon came back to me and told me that he had talked to you and that you had asked him who I was. He told me that he replied with "Todd Vaughan.". He further stated that upon hearing that you said "Oh, xxxx.". Thinking that odd, I asked him again, and he repeated what he had just told me. Shortly after this Jack White approached me and held out his hand. I shook his hand, and the following conversation took place: WHITE: "Are you Todd?" VAUGHAN: "Yes. We've met before, back at the 1991 ASK conference I think." WHITE: "Well I think we can agree to disagree." VAUGHAN: "Yes, I think so." We then parted and I continued to watch the experiment. You had been in the street for quite a while, holding the scale. When you finished and returned to the curb, I approached, shook your hand, and the following conversation took place: VAUGHAN: I just wanted to introduce myself, Professor, I'm Todd Vaughan. FETZER: Oh hi. (pause) You know, you never did tell me just what kind of work you do. VAUGHAN: I work in corporate security for a large company. FETZER: Oh. After the experiment appeared to be complete, but before the transit was moved and broke down, I introduced myself to Dr. Mantik. I mentioned that he and I had met before. Cordial as ever, he seemed to recall this and then invited me to look through the transit at the established line of sight. I did so, and immediately and clearly commented that I thought the alignment was close in the horizontal planes but was off in the vertical plane. I then examined three versions of Moorman that were being used in the alignment attempt. The first was a large blowup of the pedestal area mounted on stiff cardboard. It was obvious that this was an enlarged computer image that was somewhat pixilated, blurry, and off color, having a sepia like tone.* It was also obvious that there was a crosshair overlaid that in the horizontal plane attempted to line up the bottom of the window with the top of the pedestal. As Josiah Thompson pointed out some months ago and here recently, those points DO NOT line up in Moorman. Rather there is a gap between them. I pointed all these facts out and commented that this version of Moorman did not allow one to see the correct relationship of the window to the pedestal. Dr. Mantik then produced an 8x10" glossy of Moorman. This was better quality, but as the area in question was not blown-up, it was of little use. I then looked at, on my own accord, a copy of Grodens' TKOAP that was being used. That version of Moorman was completely useless. After all of the above, Dr. Mantik kindly asked me if I wanted to move the transit to where I thought the alignment point was. However, as there was no good copy of Moorman available to use for a proper evaluation of the alignment point, I decided that would have been impossible. Further, it was now 11:05 am, and my ride, parked behind the grassy knoll, had waited for me for over an hour and had just called me via cell phone and informed me that we needed to depart to remain on schedule. As I was now 1 hour and 5 minutes over my scheduled departure time, I explained to Dr. Mantik that I had seen enough and had to leave, as my ride was ready to go. I closed by thanking him for his time and allowing me to observe and participate to the degree that I did. I then departed by crossing Elm Street and going up the steps on the knoll into the parking lot where my ride awaited. Todd *At one point after I looked through the transit I tried to ask Jack White what the source was for this Moorman enlargement but he seemed not to know and rather somewhat disinterested. QUOTE OFF So I said two sentences to a guy I did not know, and you are making a federal case out of it? And I can tell your account is false when you say: "Tony soon came back to me and told me that he had talked to you and that you had asked him who I was. He told me that he replied with "Todd Vaughan.". He further stated that upon hearing that you said "Oh, xxxx.". Thinking that odd, I asked him again, and he repeated what he had just told me." FOR YOUR INFORMATION, I DO NOT USE THAT SORT OF LANGUAGE, ESPECIALLY IN PUBLIC AND TO A STRANGER. (maybe in private if I hit my thumb with a hammer). I had never met Tony nor you and would NEVER say "Oh, xxxx" to either of you. One of you LIED about this! So Todd Vaughan, I bid you adieu. I do not wish to associate with a person like you in any way. Go elsewhere to peddle your version of the LN lie. Jack (who once shook the hand of the famed (in his own mind) Todd Vaughan!) Jack, As you've demonstrated several times, reading comprehension is not your stong suit. The quote of ""Oh, xxxx." was something Tony Cummings told me that Fetzer had said, and I wrote it up that way. Todd

Thanks Robin. It's a typo (z and x are next to each other on the keyboard) and I've made the correction.

I'm not sure where Jack is on this since he seemed to have some trouble with the text editor. However, a larger frame from Wiegman gives us a more complete picture of the pattern we're looking for. And we can see again that it's a repeat of the original problem - miscounting the pergola bays. We're looking for a partially shaded front column with a slanted shadow line, next to a full sun front column. That's easy to locate. The confusion is being caused by the fact that Wiegman's perspective moves the rear columns dramatically to the right relative to the front columns. At the same time, Altgens perspective moves the rear columns to the left relative to the front columns. So in Wiegman, the rear column associated with a particular front column appears to the right of the front column. While in Altgens, the rear column associated with a particular front column appears to the left of the front column. It's really confusing at first, but once you see the system it's easy to locate the shadow patterns, they're just one bay over from where they look like they ought to be. We see the X1 and X slanted shadow pattern on the rear PS column while Y and Z are hidden by the pedestal, Zapruder and Seitzman. Although I think we may see a little of Z peeking through their shoes in the Altgens photo. VERY nice job, Jerry.

Todd said years ago that he took a look through their transit and that it was fairly close as as the horizontal (left and right) axis went but was off in terms of the vertical (up and down) axis. I hope Todd might give us his own account. Josiah Thompson You might want to get an opinion from Stewart Galanor. He was there and was dubious about the experiment. He looked thru the transit after Mantik found the line of sight. He suggested a very minor adjustment. David made the adjustment, and Stewart agreed about the lineup. Vaughan came over and wanted to look, although none of us knew who he was. He looked without any comment to any of us. Any comments from him will be a dozen years late. Jack. Your claims about me at the experiment are simply not true. I had met both you and Dr. Mantik some years previously. I had never met Fetzer. I had met Galanor earlier in the week. I talked to you, Dr. Mantik and Fetzer, in that order. I did not talk to Galanor who during the experiment was wandering around the south-most lane of Elm Street trying to direct traffic out of that lane. My conversations with both you and Fetzer were rather brief. You and I specifically talked about the Moorman blow-up you were using for the pedestal line-up. I specifically asked you why it had a brown, sepia like color tone to it. You more-or-less blew me off. Fetzer was rather stand-offish and confrontational, for some reason not discussing the experiment but rather demanding to know what I did for a living and where I worked. Dr. Mantik, however, was as gentlemanly and as cordial as ever and invited me to look through the transit, which I did (I did not “come over and (want) to look” as you falsely claim - I was invited to look). I told him that the alignment was very close horizontally (left and right) but was off vertically because it did not account for the gap. I wrote up the entire experience and posted it on the DellaRossa board a few days after I returned from Dallas. I believe that I still have that write up and will post it here when I find it. Todd How in the world could you WRITE UP THE ENTIRE EXPERIMENT??????? You were not ANY part of participating in it. You were a bystander. Nobody but 3 of us, plus Stewart Galanor, who asked to come along, even were aware of what we were doing. WHAT WERE YOU EVEN DOING THERE? WHO TOLD YOU ABOUT IT? It was being done confidentially. Who tipped you off so that you could be a bystander. Why are you injecting yourself as a PARTICIPANT? As I recall, I rented the transit at Home Depot on Saturday and met Mantik and Fetzer in the plaza ON SUNDAY MORNING WHEN THE PLAZA WOULD BE DESERTED. Fetzer and Mantik had talked to Galanor in the hotel and allowed him to come along. The plaza was almost deserted. Mantik and Fetzer devised the experiment. I took lots of photos. A small crowd gathered to watch us. You say you ware part of that crowd, but I was not aware of anyone there that I knew. Just how did you know to come there and were there others with you, and who were they? I ask again...how did you know we were there, and how could you "write up the experiment" of which you knew nothing????? now this is getting interesting, Todd? Regardless of Todd's alleged "write-up" of the experiment by Fetzer and Mantik, I suggest that anyone wanting to know about the experiment as done by them go to: http://www.jfkresearch.com/Moorman/ There is a complete and accurate "write-up". Jack Jack, Below is the write up of my experience while observing the Moorman experiment. This was a post to Dr. Fetzer on the DellaRossa forum that I first wrote up as a Word document before posting and then saved it. The date on the Word Document is 3 December 2001. You’ll see that I quote the conversation that you and I had. Todd QUOTE ON Professor Fetzer, I came down to Dealey Plaza on 16 November 2001 while the experiment was obviously underway. I stood back a ways and just observed, taking it all in. Tony Cummings, whom I had first met a few days earlier, came up to me and we chatted a bit. He then moved away, and I continued to view the experiment. Tony soon came back to me and told me that he had talked to you and that you had asked him who I was. He told me that he replied with "Todd Vaughan.". He further stated that upon hearing that you said "Oh, xxxx.". Thinking that odd, I asked him again, and he repeated what he had just told me. Shortly after this Jack White approached me and held out his hand. I shook his hand, and the following conversation took place: WHITE: "Are you Todd?" VAUGHAN: "Yes. We've met before, back at the 1991 ASK conference I think." WHITE: "Well I think we can agree to disagree." VAUGHAN: "Yes, I think so." We then parted and I continued to watch the experiment. You had been in the street for quite a while, holding the scale. When you finished and returned to the curb, I approached, shook your hand, and the following conversation took place: VAUGHAN: I just wanted to introduce myself, Professor, I'm Todd Vaughan. FETZER: Oh hi. (pause) You know, you never did tell me just what kind of work you do. VAUGHAN: I work in corporate security for a large company. FETZER: Oh. After the experiment appeared to be complete, but before the transit was moved and broke down, I introduced myself to Dr. Mantik. I mentioned that he and I had met before. Cordial as ever, he seemed to recall this and then invited me to look through the transit at the established line of sight. I did so, and immediately and clearly commented that I thought the alignment was close in the horizontal planes but was off in the vertical plane. I then examined three versions of Moorman that were being used in the alignment attempt. The first was a large blowup of the pedestal area mounted on stiff cardboard. It was obvious that this was an enlarged computer image that was somewhat pixilated, blurry, and off color, having a sepia like tone.* It was also obvious that there was a crosshair overlaid that in the horizontal plane attempted to line up the bottom of the window with the top of the pedestal. As Josiah Thompson pointed out some months ago and here recently, those points DO NOT line up in Moorman. Rather there is a gap between them. I pointed all these facts out and commented that this version of Moorman did not allow one to see the correct relationship of the window to the pedestal. Dr. Mantik then produced an 8x10" glossy of Moorman. This was better quality, but as the area in question was not blown-up, it was of little use. I then looked at, on my own accord, a copy of Grodens' TKOAP that was being used. That version of Moorman was completely useless. After all of the above, Dr. Mantik kindly asked me if I wanted to move the transit to where I thought the alignment point was. However, as there was no good copy of Moorman available to use for a proper evaluation of the alignment point, I decided that would have been impossible. Further, it was now 11:05 am, and my ride, parked behind the grassy knoll, had waited for me for over an hour and had just called me via cell phone and informed me that we needed to depart to remain on schedule. As I was now 1 hour and 5 minutes over my scheduled departure time, I explained to Dr. Mantik that I had seen enough and had to leave, as my ride was ready to go. I closed by thanking him for his time and allowing me to observe and participate to the degree that I did. I then departed by crossing Elm Street and going up the steps on the knoll into the parking lot where my ride awaited. Todd *At one point after I looked through the transit I tried to ask Jack White what the source was for this Moorman enlargement but he seemed not to know and rather somewhat disinterested. QUOTE OFF

Dixie, I do recall your post and I appreciated your support then as I do now. Thanks. Todd

Todd said years ago that he took a look through their transit and that it was fairly close as as the horizontal (left and right) axis went but was off in terms of the vertical (up and down) axis. I hope Todd might give us his own account. Josiah Thompson You might want to get an opinion from Stewart Galanor. He was there and was dubious about the experiment. He looked thru the transit after Mantik found the line of sight. He suggested a very minor adjustment. David made the adjustment, and Stewart agreed about the lineup. Vaughan came over and wanted to look, although none of us knew who he was. He looked without any comment to any of us. Any comments from him will be a dozen years late. Jack. Your claims about me at the experiment are simply not true. I had met both you and Dr. Mantik some years previously. I had never met Fetzer. I had met Galanor earlier in the week. I talked to you, Dr. Mantik and Fetzer, in that order. I did not talk to Galanor who during the experiment was wandering around the south-most lane of Elm Street trying to direct traffic out of that lane. My conversations with both you and Fetzer were rather brief. You and I specifically talked about the Moorman blow-up you were using for the pedestal line-up. I specifically asked you why it had a brown, sepia like color tone to it. You more-or-less blew me off. Fetzer was rather stand-offish and confrontational, for some reason not discussing the experiment but rather demanding to know what I did for a living and where I worked. Dr. Mantik, however, was as gentlemanly and as cordial as ever and invited me to look through the transit, which I did (I did not “come over and (want) to look” as you falsely claim - I was invited to look). I told him that the alignment was very close horizontally (left and right) but was off vertically because it did not account for the gap. I wrote up the entire experience and posted it on the DellaRossa board a few days after I returned from Dallas. I believe that I still have that write up and will post it here when I find it. Todd How in the world could you WRITE UP THE ENTIRE EXPERIMENT??????? You were not ANY part of participating in it. You were a bystander. Nobody but 3 of us, plus Stewart Galanor, who asked to come along, even were aware of what we were doing. WHAT WERE YOU EVEN DOING THERE? WHO TOLD YOU ABOUT IT? It was being done confidentially. Who tipped you off so that you could be a bystander. Why are you injecting yourself as a PARTICIPANT? As I recall, I rented the transit at Home Depot on Saturday and met Mantik and Fetzer in the plaza ON SUNDAY MORNING WHEN THE PLAZA WOULD BE DESERTED. Fetzer and Mantik had talked to Galanor in the hotel and allowed him to come along. The plaza was almost deserted. Mantik and Fetzer devised the experiment. I took lots of photos. A small crowd gathered to watch us. You say you ware part of that crowd, but I was not aware of anyone there that I knew. Just how did you know to come there and were there others with you, and who were they? I ask again...how did you know we were there, and how could you "write up the experiment" of which you knew nothing????? now this is getting interesting, Todd? What's interesting, David, is how bad Jack's memory of all of this is, and how little your posts contribute to the discussion.

Todd said years ago that he took a look through their transit and that it was fairly close as as the horizontal (left and right) axis went but was off in terms of the vertical (up and down) axis. I hope Todd might give us his own account. Josiah Thompson You might want to get an opinion from Stewart Galanor. He was there and was dubious about the experiment. He looked thru the transit after Mantik found the line of sight. He suggested a very minor adjustment. David made the adjustment, and Stewart agreed about the lineup. Vaughan came over and wanted to look, although none of us knew who he was. He looked without any comment to any of us. Any comments from him will be a dozen years late. Jack. Your claims about me at the experiment are simply not true. I had met both you and Dr. Mantik some years previously. I had never met Fetzer. I had met Galanor earlier in the week. I talked to you, Dr. Mantik and Fetzer, in that order. I did not talk to Galanor who during the experiment was wandering around the south-most lane of Elm Street trying to direct traffic out of that lane. My conversations with both you and Fetzer were rather brief. You and I specifically talked about the Moorman blow-up you were using for the pedestal line-up. I specifically asked you why it had a brown, sepia like color tone to it. You more-or-less blew me off. Fetzer was rather stand-offish and confrontational, for some reason not discussing the experiment but rather demanding to know what I did for a living and where I worked. Dr. Mantik, however, was as gentlemanly and as cordial as ever and invited me to look through the transit, which I did (I did not “come over and (want) to look” as you falsely claim - I was invited to look). I told him that the alignment was very close horizontally (left and right) but was off vertically because it did not account for the gap. I wrote up the entire experience and posted it on the DellaRossa board a few days after I returned from Dallas. I believe that I still have that write up and will post it here when I find it. Todd How in the world could you WRITE UP THE ENTIRE EXPERIMENT??????? You were not ANY part of participating in it. You were a bystander. Nobody but 3 of us, plus Stewart Galanor, who asked to come along, even were aware of what we were doing. WHAT WERE YOU EVEN DOING THERE? WHO TOLD YOU ABOUT IT? It was being done confidentially. Who tipped you off so that you could be a bystander. Why are you injecting yourself as a PARTICIPANT? As I recall, I rented the transit at Home Depot on Saturday and met Mantik and Fetzer in the plaza ON SUNDAY MORNING WHEN THE PLAZA WOULD BE DESERTED. Fetzer and Mantik had talked to Galanor in the hotel and allowed him to come along. The plaza was almost deserted. Mantik and Fetzer devised the experiment. I took lots of photos. A small crowd gathered to watch us. You say you ware part of that crowd, but I was not aware of anyone there that I knew. Just how did you know to come there and were there others with you, and who were they? I ask again...how did you know we were there, and how could you "write up the experiment" of which you knew nothing????? Jack, I said I wrote up the “experience”…my experience. I never said I wrote up the “experiment” . Good God your reading comprehension is bad! What was I doing there? You guys posted the fact that you were doing the experiment ahead of time on the DellaRossa Forum including the date and time you were going to be and invited anyone to attend. That day happened to be the last day of a week-long trip I had already planned to be taking so I made it a point to show up. As I recall a few others from the DellaRossa Forum showed up as well, one by the name of Tony Cummings (sp?) Good God your memory is bad! Todd

Todd said years ago that he took a look through their transit and that it was fairly close as as the horizontal (left and right) axis went but was off in terms of the vertical (up and down) axis. I hope Todd might give us his own account. Josiah Thompson You might want to get an opinion from Stewart Galanor. He was there and was dubious about the experiment. He looked thru the transit after Mantik found the line of sight. He suggested a very minor adjustment. David made the adjustment, and Stewart agreed about the lineup. Vaughan came over and wanted to look, although none of us knew who he was. He looked without any comment to any of us. Any comments from him will be a dozen years late. Jack. Your claims about me at the experiment are simply not true. I had met both you and Dr. Mantik some years previously. I had never met Fetzer. I had met Galanor earlier in the week. I talked to you, Dr. Mantik and Fetzer, in that order. I did not talk to Galanor who during the experiment was wandering around the south-most lane of Elm Street trying to direct traffic out of that lane. My conversations with both you and Fetzer were rather brief. You and I specifically talked about the Moorman blow-up you were using for the pedestal line-up. I specifically asked you why it had a brown, sepia like color tone to it. You more-or-less blew me off. Fetzer was rather stand-offish and confrontational, for some reason not discussing the experiment but rather demanding to know what I did for a living and where I worked. Dr. Mantik, however, was as gentlemanly and as cordial as ever and invited me to look through the transit, which I did (I did not “come over and (want) to look” as you falsely claim - I was invited to look). I told him that the alignment was very close horizontally (left and right) but was off vertically because it did not account for the gap. I wrote up the entire experience and posted it on the DellaRossa board a few days after I returned from Dallas. I believe that I still have that write up and will post it here when I find it. Todd I will talk to anyone. I did not know you and do not recall ever meeting you, so you cannot say my statements are untrue. You may have remembered meeting me, but I do not recall having ever met you. As a researcher, I meet hundreds of researchers and other people, and my memory is not prodigious enough to recall each one of them by name. You can say I did not recognize you, which is true, but you cannot say my account is untrue because I did not recognize you. I do not recall the print having "a brown sepia like color". It was an 8.5x11 sheet of white paper with the Moorman image printed on it on my b&w printer, and then mounted on a piece of white cardboard. So it has to be you stating an untruth about a sepia image. I do not recall "blowing anyone off". Fetzer, Mantik and I were busy. I was taking photos. I do not recall you or anyone else approaching me. A small crowd had gathered about 20 feet to the south to watch us, but I had NO interaction with ANY of them and did not recognize anyone I knew. If that amounts to "blowing you off", that is your interpretation. I do not recall ANYONE asking me ANY questions. You are presenting a false picture of what was happening. If Mantik recognized you and invited you to look in the transit I was not aware of it, but it may have happened. I was only aware of him asking Galanor. I gave Galanor the Moorman image at his request. So your statement: "Your claims about me at the experiment are simply not true." IS IN ITSELF SIMPLY NOT TRUE! I do not know why you are interjecting this false claim. I was busy. If I "blew you off" it was because you were interrupting what I was doing. I did not know you from Adam. Sorry if that deflates your ego. I have no memory of anyone even saying anything to me, and did not find out till much later that you were even present. I think you should specify what was not true about the experiment, or withdraw your FALSE CLAIM. Jack Jack, Allow me to spell it out for you as clearly as I possibly can. What I am saying is not true is your claim that I “looked without any comment to any of us” and that “Any comments from him will be a dozen years late.” The fact is that after looking through the transit I spoke with Dr. Mantik about the alignment being very close horizontally but off vertically because it did not account for the gap. After that I also talked to both you and Fetzer. Therefore, your claim that I “looked without any comment to any of us” and that “Any comments from him will be a dozen years late.” is completely false. Is that clear enough for you? Todd you WCR pristine evidence type, lone nut guys are taking a pasting not only here, but other web forums as well... ya made your stand, lost so live with it and move on... stipend time is coming to a close.... all your lone nut hopes and dreams are in Bugliosi/Hanks/HBO hands.... not an enviable position, I must say. Especially with Oliver Stone pondering in the wings. O-U-C-H Ah, I see Healey has weighed in once more with his typical rambling, off-topic drivel. Did you have something to add to the discussion, David?

Todd said years ago that he took a look through their transit and that it was fairly close as as the horizontal (left and right) axis went but was off in terms of the vertical (up and down) axis. I hope Todd might give us his own account. Josiah Thompson You might want to get an opinion from Stewart Galanor. He was there and was dubious about the experiment. He looked thru the transit after Mantik found the line of sight. He suggested a very minor adjustment. David made the adjustment, and Stewart agreed about the lineup. Vaughan came over and wanted to look, although none of us knew who he was. He looked without any comment to any of us. Any comments from him will be a dozen years late. Jack. Your claims about me at the experiment are simply not true. I had met both you and Dr. Mantik some years previously. I had never met Fetzer. I had met Galanor earlier in the week. I talked to you, Dr. Mantik and Fetzer, in that order. I did not talk to Galanor who during the experiment was wandering around the south-most lane of Elm Street trying to direct traffic out of that lane. My conversations with both you and Fetzer were rather brief. You and I specifically talked about the Moorman blow-up you were using for the pedestal line-up. I specifically asked you why it had a brown, sepia like color tone to it. You more-or-less blew me off. Fetzer was rather stand-offish and confrontational, for some reason not discussing the experiment but rather demanding to know what I did for a living and where I worked. Dr. Mantik, however, was as gentlemanly and as cordial as ever and invited me to look through the transit, which I did (I did not “come over and (want) to look” as you falsely claim - I was invited to look). I told him that the alignment was very close horizontally (left and right) but was off vertically because it did not account for the gap. I wrote up the entire experience and posted it on the DellaRossa board a few days after I returned from Dallas. I believe that I still have that write up and will post it here when I find it. Todd I will talk to anyone. I did not know you and do not recall ever meeting you, so you cannot say my statements are untrue. You may have remembered meeting me, but I do not recall having ever met you. As a researcher, I meet hundreds of researchers and other people, and my memory is not prodigious enough to recall each one of them by name. You can say I did not recognize you, which is true, but you cannot say my account is untrue because I did not recognize you. I do not recall the print having "a brown sepia like color". It was an 8.5x11 sheet of white paper with the Moorman image printed on it on my b&w printer, and then mounted on a piece of white cardboard. So it has to be you stating an untruth about a sepia image. I do not recall "blowing anyone off". Fetzer, Mantik and I were busy. I was taking photos. I do not recall you or anyone else approaching me. A small crowd had gathered about 20 feet to the south to watch us, but I had NO interaction with ANY of them and did not recognize anyone I knew. If that amounts to "blowing you off", that is your interpretation. I do not recall ANYONE asking me ANY questions. You are presenting a false picture of what was happening. If Mantik recognized you and invited you to look in the transit I was not aware of it, but it may have happened. I was only aware of him asking Galanor. I gave Galanor the Moorman image at his request. So your statement: "Your claims about me at the experiment are simply not true." IS IN ITSELF SIMPLY NOT TRUE! I do not know why you are interjecting this false claim. I was busy. If I "blew you off" it was because you were interrupting what I was doing. I did not know you from Adam. Sorry if that deflates your ego. I have no memory of anyone even saying anything to me, and did not find out till much later that you were even present. I think you should specify what was not true about the experiment, or withdraw your FALSE CLAIM. Jack Jack, Regarding the Moorman enlargement used at the experiment, it was indeed an 8.5x11 sheet of white mounted on a piece of white cardboard, but the image did have an overall light brown sepia tone to it, which is why I asked you about it. Todd

Todd said years ago that he took a look through their transit and that it was fairly close as as the horizontal (left and right) axis went but was off in terms of the vertical (up and down) axis. I hope Todd might give us his own account. Josiah Thompson You might want to get an opinion from Stewart Galanor. He was there and was dubious about the experiment. He looked thru the transit after Mantik found the line of sight. He suggested a very minor adjustment. David made the adjustment, and Stewart agreed about the lineup. Vaughan came over and wanted to look, although none of us knew who he was. He looked without any comment to any of us. Any comments from him will be a dozen years late. Jack. Your claims about me at the experiment are simply not true. I had met both you and Dr. Mantik some years previously. I had never met Fetzer. I had met Galanor earlier in the week. I talked to you, Dr. Mantik and Fetzer, in that order. I did not talk to Galanor who during the experiment was wandering around the south-most lane of Elm Street trying to direct traffic out of that lane. My conversations with both you and Fetzer were rather brief. You and I specifically talked about the Moorman blow-up you were using for the pedestal line-up. I specifically asked you why it had a brown, sepia like color tone to it. You more-or-less blew me off. Fetzer was rather stand-offish and confrontational, for some reason not discussing the experiment but rather demanding to know what I did for a living and where I worked. Dr. Mantik, however, was as gentlemanly and as cordial as ever and invited me to look through the transit, which I did (I did not “come over and (want) to look” as you falsely claim - I was invited to look). I told him that the alignment was very close horizontally (left and right) but was off vertically because it did not account for the gap. I wrote up the entire experience and posted it on the DellaRossa board a few days after I returned from Dallas. I believe that I still have that write up and will post it here when I find it. Todd I will talk to anyone. I did not know you and do not recall ever meeting you, so you cannot say my statements are untrue. You may have remembered meeting me, but I do not recall having ever met you. As a researcher, I meet hundreds of researchers and other people, and my memory is not prodigious enough to recall each one of them by name. You can say I did not recognize you, which is true, but you cannot say my account is untrue because I did not recognize you. I do not recall the print having "a brown sepia like color". It was an 8.5x11 sheet of white paper with the Moorman image printed on it on my b&w printer, and then mounted on a piece of white cardboard. So it has to be you stating an untruth about a sepia image. I do not recall "blowing anyone off". Fetzer, Mantik and I were busy. I was taking photos. I do not recall you or anyone else approaching me. A small crowd had gathered about 20 feet to the south to watch us, but I had NO interaction with ANY of them and did not recognize anyone I knew. If that amounts to "blowing you off", that is your interpretation. I do not recall ANYONE asking me ANY questions. You are presenting a false picture of what was happening. If Mantik recognized you and invited you to look in the transit I was not aware of it, but it may have happened. I was only aware of him asking Galanor. I gave Galanor the Moorman image at his request. So your statement: "Your claims about me at the experiment are simply not true." IS IN ITSELF SIMPLY NOT TRUE! I do not know why you are interjecting this false claim. I was busy. If I "blew you off" it was because you were interrupting what I was doing. I did not know you from Adam. Sorry if that deflates your ego. I have no memory of anyone even saying anything to me, and did not find out till much later that you were even present. I think you should specify what was not true about the experiment, or withdraw your FALSE CLAIM. Jack Jack, Allow me to spell it out for you as clearly as I possibly can. What I am saying is not true is your claim that I “looked without any comment to any of us” and that “Any comments from him will be a dozen years late.” The fact is that after looking through the transit I spoke with Dr. Mantik about the alignment being very close horizontally but off vertically because it did not account for the gap. After that I also talked to both you and Fetzer. Therefore, your claim that I “looked without any comment to any of us” and that “Any comments from him will be a dozen years late.” is completely false. Is that clear enough for you? Todd

Robin, That's an excellent photo. A minor correction - the photo shows the right front of the bus. It does seem to show the bus that was stopped at the corner during the motorcade clearly blocking the Sprague/Cutler Nix location. Per Todd, they probably didn't have access to Bronson since the original plat appeared before the Bronson photos and slides were known. Best to you, Jerry Jerry, We knew about Bronson 3 (limo on elm Street) in 1981 because it had been published in Lifton's Best Evidence (and also in one of the Dallas papers), but we did not have the earlier Bronson images. Todd

So Jack, where do you think Nix (or the tripod) was located? Surely not where this plat shows him, right? Logan As far as I know it has been well established that Nix stood on the sidewalk, not in the intersection. As far as Altgens location, I think it is established that he was at one time in the intersection. Then there is Hughes, filming from a similar location. To me the oddity is that none of these three appears in the images of the others. Cutler, now deceased, drew the map based on onsite examination by him and Richard Sprague, using images in their hands. I have never had reason to doubt their accuracy. It is interesting that they give no location for Altgens 5 or 8. Cutler's May 1970 map has errors on it with regards to the locations of the photographers, spectators, and motorcade occupants. In the summer of 1981 Cutler and I sat in his Manchester, Mass. office and corrected many of the errors for a new verson of his map that he put out later in 1981. I do not recall if we made corrections for Altgens and Nix - I'd have to dig out the map. We did not have early Bronson or any of Skaggs then.

Todd said years ago that he took a look through their transit and that it was fairly close as as the horizontal (left and right) axis went but was off in terms of the vertical (up and down) axis. I hope Todd might give us his own account. Josiah Thompson You might want to get an opinion from Stewart Galanor. He was there and was dubious about the experiment. He looked thru the transit after Mantik found the line of sight. He suggested a very minor adjustment. David made the adjustment, and Stewart agreed about the lineup. Vaughan came over and wanted to look, although none of us knew who he was. He looked without any comment to any of us. Any comments from him will be a dozen years late. Jack. Your claims about me at the experiment are simply not true. I had met both you and Dr. Mantik some years previously. I had never met Fetzer. I had met Galanor earlier in the week. I talked to you, Dr. Mantik and Fetzer, in that order. I did not talk to Galanor who during the experiment was wandering around the south-most lane of Elm Street trying to direct traffic out of that lane. My conversations with both you and Fetzer were rather brief. You and I specifically talked about the Moorman blow-up you were using for the pedestal line-up. I specifically asked you why it had a brown, sepia like color tone to it. You more-or-less blew me off. Fetzer was rather stand-offish and confrontational, for some reason not discussing the experiment but rather demanding to know what I did for a living and where I worked. Dr. Mantik, however, was as gentlemanly and as cordial as ever and invited me to look through the transit, which I did (I did not “come over and (want) to look” as you falsely claim - I was invited to look). I told him that the alignment was very close horizontally (left and right) but was off vertically because it did not account for the gap. I wrote up the entire experience and posted it on the DellaRossa board a few days after I returned from Dallas. I believe that I still have that write up and will post it here when I find it. Todd

Sure, i know what you mean Todd. Keep in mind he possibly turned to his right to make sure what his mate (Jackson) was doing. Or he reacted to a shot from the rear. (thats what you mean) 1 out of four so far. Martin Chaney stated that the shots came from over his right shoulder.