Paul Trejo

Jason, This is a superb summary of Dallas FBI agent James Hosty's WC testimony. I want to respond to all of it -- but I can only respond to part of it right now. First, you ask about Hosty's book, A$$ignment Oswald (1996), and what we might add to the WC testimony. Here's the first thing to add -- it's from Chapter 1. My caseload in the four-man counter-intelligence squad in the Dallas office was dominated by right-wingers. I spent much of my time tracking the movements and actions of both Klan members and members of former US Army General Edwin Walker’s radical militia group, known as the Minutemen. Convinced there was a Communist hiding under every bush, the Minutemen had been quietly and discreetly arming themselves with an impressive arsenal of weapons. In the eyes of the Minutemen, Kennedy was at best a dupe of the Communists; at worst a Communist collaborator. (James Hosty, A$$ignment Oswald, 1996, p. 4). This is crucial, in my reading. It tells us that James Hosty was first and foremost concerned in his Dallas FBI case load with the Dallas Radical Right. Hosty tells us directly where he spent much of his time: he mentions two groups: (1) the KKK; and (2) the Minutemen, which he attributes to "former US Army General Edwin Walker." I'll defer a review of Walker's journey from conservatism to radicalism -- but by 1962, Walker became the leader of the violent, revolutionary "Minutemen" in Dallas, who were heavily armed and ready to defend Dallas against a feared Cuban invasion. In their view, JFK was the true leader of Fidel Castro, helping Castro at every turn. To speak of General Walker is to speak of Robert Alan Surrey, who had his office inside the home of General Walker at 4011 Turtle Creek Blvd, in Oak Lawn, Dallas (almost certainly owned by H.L. Hunt). Surrey was the President of Walker's company, the American Eagle Publishing Company, and according to Penn Jones, Jr., Surrey was also the bridge partner of James Hosty for years. At this point I want to engage in some speculation -- which I will admit it open to questioning. The continual connection of James Hosty with the Radical Right in Dallas gave him many contacts with the Radical Right. Robert Alan Surrey was not only a personal aide to General Walker, but he was also very close with many other extremists among the Radical Right. This is well-known. Yet if James Hostry really was Surrey's bridge partner for years -- that doesn't sound like an FBI relationship. To give James Hosty the benefit of the doubt, he might have been using friendly bridge games in order to pump Surrey for inside information about the Radical Right. That's plausible. Yet, if that's plausible, then it's equally plausible that at some point in 1962, FBI agent James Hosty was TURNED. This is my CT. I say that James Hosty, like General Walker, was obsessed with Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) soon after LHO first arrived in Fort Worth in June, 1962. LHO was from RUSSIA. LHO was a COMMUNIST. Why didn't the White House do something about this? The answer must be that the White House is also COMMUNIST. Simple. You noted, Jason, a crucial and possibly accidental confession on the part of James Hosty, that he had been tracking LHO since July, 1962. That corresponds well with General Walker's obsession with LHO. Surrey was also involved at some level. Gayle Nix Jackson, in her new book, Pieces of the Puzzle: An Anthology (2018) offers some surprising interview data about Surrey's alleged communications with LHO in 1963. My point is that FBI agent James Hosty was impressed with the Radical Right, and perhaps around the time of the Cuban Missile Crisis of 10/1962, and the Ole Miss Crisis of the same period, decided to join forces with Robert Alan Surrey and General Walker. James Hosty knew PLENTY about the Minutemen in Dallas, Jason, as you have amply shown in many recent FBI FOIA releases. That Hosty would deliberately lie to Washington DC about the status of the Minutemen in Dallas is material evidence that Hosty was TURNED. If we proceed with this hypothesis -- this CT -- that Hosty was working alongside the Dallas Radical Right since October, 1962 at the latest (if not July, 1962), then I believe all of his WC testimony will begin to make sense. All best, --Paul

Yes, I'll second that motion. Jason's summary of my current position is well-worded. All best, --Paul

Hi Jason, That 11/25/1963 memo from US Assistant Attorney General Nicholas Katzenbach to Bill Moyers nails the Washington DC attitude about Dallas, Texas in November, 1963. It was solidified by J. Edgar Hoover by 3pm on 11/22/1963 when he told RFK that JFK's shooter was "not a Communist" and "not an officer of the FPCC." It was all settled by the afternoon of 11/22/1963. Texas Attorney General Waggoner Carr and Dallas District Attorney Henry Wade were threatened by Washington DC that unless they had material proof of a Communist Conspiracy, there would be hell to pay. Of course, the only "proof" was that Lee Harvey Oswald had a Fake FPCC in New Orleans. So, they back-pedaled quickly, and then Henry Wade broke the news to Chief Curry, Captain Fritz and Sheriff Decker that very evening. This isn't my guess. This is all carefully documented in WC testimony. All best, --Paul Trejo

Jason, In my opinion, during this past week, you've covered the WC testimony of the Dallas Police on this thread as nobody else has ever done -- not even Walt Brown or Jeff Caufield. I'm delighted. Now, if you please, I'd like to direct this thread a little closer to General Walker. It won't be a giant step -- but a half-step. I'd like to concentrate on four people who weren't members of the Dallas Police or Deputies, but who sat with Captain Will Fritz during the final hour of Lee Harvey Oswald at the Dallas Police HQ. Here are the people: 1. Dallas FBI agent James Hosty 2. Dallas FBI agent James Bookhout 3. Dallas Secret Service Agent Forrest Sorrels 4. Dallas Postal Inspector Harry Holmes I realize you've already touched on Forrest Sorrels on 11/22/1963, but now I'd like to move to 11/24/1963, and the murder of Lee Harvey Oswald under the protection of the Dallas Police. General Walker's right-hand man, Robert Alan Surrey, was also the bridge partner of James Hosty for years (says Penn Jones, Jr.). It is James Hosty's own book, Assignment Oswald (1996) that will offer clues linking these four men with General Walker. But first -- let's look at their WC testimony, depositions and affidavits. Now, there is no need to speed through these four -- the WC testimony is sometimes quite long. Yet since they were with Captain Fritz near the end of Oswald's life -- and since their WC testimony sometimes matches very closely about that hour, and sometimes diverges widely -- I think these four Dallas Officers who worked so closely with the Dallas Police, merit intensive scrutiny. All best, --Paul

Hi Jason, I doubt if most CTers even remember that Revilo P. Oliver was the very last WC witness. All these documents that you presented here were also presented by the Warren Commission during his testimony. The essence of his testimony was to defend General Walker from accusations of a JFK plot in Dallas along with the Radical Right. The CIA-did-it CT was not only a John Bircher CT in 1963-1964, but it remains so today, and the US Left is blind to the fact that since the fall of Marxism in 1990, most of their political views were simply borrowed from the John Birch Society. By the way, many people forget that Fred Koch -- father of the famous Koch Brothers -- was a founding member of the John Birch Society. Their influence lives on to this very day. What's surprising is that the US Left now rails against the Bilderbergers, the Illuminati, the Federal Reserve, the CFR, the United Nations and the "Eastern Establishment" exactly like the US Radical Right did in 1963. It would be hilarious if it weren't so tragic. All best, --Paul

Hi Jason, I'm interested in your recent hypothesis that the "sniper's nest" was tampered with soon after the JFK shooting, and in the material evidence that you cite: (POINT 1) Lt. Day admitted his crime scene photos of boxes do not "jibe" with photos of the TSBD seconds after JFK was shot. Lt. Day simply admitted to the WC that the boxes must have been moved before he arrived, because his own photo of the sniper's nest from inside the TSBD (CE 716) shows only one box next to the window on the west edge -- taken at after 1 PM -- while a newspaper photography took a photo of the TSBD from the outside at 12:31 PM, of that same window (CE 482) and it shows two boxes stacked next to that window on the west edge. (POINT 2) Newspaper photographer Tom Alyea was on the 6th floor TSBD before Lt. Day and Officer Studebaker of the "crime lab" arrived to take photographs. Alyea took his own photographs of the three bullet shells found -- assisted by Captain Fritz, who picked them up in his hands and placed them on a box for a close-up. I agree that that crime-scene tampering before the "crime lab" photographs and fingerprint dusting has been amply shown in WC testimony itself. Again, this confirms for me that although the WC attorneys were promoting a false, Lone Shooter explanation of the JFK Assassination, and would not cross-examine Dallas Officials, nevertheless the WC wasn't committed to cover-up all of the Dallas Official's inconsistencies. On the contrary, they preferred to record all inconsistencies for posterity -- even though not one would be prosecuted, in order to maintain the integrity of the Lone Shooter mythology for US National Security. All best, --Paul

Roger, Thanks for your kind remarks. I would add here that I've seen your posts over the years, and IMHO you're a well-informed CTer with a wide-range of reading in the JFK research. That said -- since this data about a Dallas-did-it CT is new to you, that must mean it's new to many, many readers as well. This is encouraging to me, that you, an intelligent contributor, are finding new and fresh insights through this fresh approach to the half-century-old WC testimony. All best, --Paul

Jason, I really like your analysis of the WC testimony of Dallas Secret Service agent Forrest Sorrels. *** You pinpointed a key exposure -- all other Dallas Officials who arrive at the TSBD do so because "somebody" told them about it. Sorrels alone fails to explain why he sped there. My CT is that Inspector Herbert Sawyer spoke with Amos Euins as a witness who saw a man sticking a rifle out of the SE window of a top floor of the TSBD -- and that Sawyer called Forrest Sorrels, who sped over to take charge of this situation. By the way -- Forrest Sorrels slightly resembles Jack Ruby at a distance. Vickie Adams testified that she thinks she saw Jack Ruby on the east side of the TSBD talking with "a colored boy." She didn't know Ruby, she just remembered his photographs in his suit after the Oswald shooting. I accept her testimony, except that this was most likely Forrest Sorrels whom she saw, not Jack Ruby, and the young lad was probably Amos Euins. (If so, then would help to add some correct timing to Vickie Adams confused timing of events.) *** It could take Sorrels 20 minutes to speed from Dealey Plaza to Parkland Hospital after JFK was killed, and then speed back to TSBD, if he had nothing else to do. Why did he bother going to Parkland Hospital? For appearances. Why didn't he stay? He had put in his appearance, and there were already countless officials at Parkland -- he wouldn't be missed. By the way -- the Dallas Secret Service was sharply distinct from the Washington DC Secret Service, and the boys from Washington DC made sure the locals knew it. They took charge with some force, and everybody else was invited to gaze on in admiration. So, Forrest Sorrels really wasn't part of the JFK protection squad -- he was an outsider, since he was a local Dallas yokel. Sorrels knew this, and this might have been some minor motive for him to join the Radical Right civilian plot in Dallas. There is lots of evidence that Forrest Sorrels was part of the JFK plot. Being with Lee Harvey Oswald during his final hour at Dallas Police HQ is only one item of evidence. His speeding to the TSBD from Parkland without any reason for it is a GREAT item that you found, Jason. Great work. *** It sort of makes sense that Sorrels would enter through the back of the TSBD (the loading dock) because he would have parked in the back *** Sorrels has no darn good reason to demand a list of TSBD employees as soon as he gets to the TSBD, unless he is part of a plot to pin the JFK shooting on one TSBD employee at the start. *** We have already stipulated that the TSBD could not have been sealed before 12:45 pm, and if Chief Curry is right, then no later than 1 pm. This fits with Sorrels' testimony. *** I have little doubt that the TSBD back door was sealed after 1 pm. *** The camera film that Inspector Herbert Sawyer testified was seized by Dallas Secret Service agent Forrest Sorrels was never mentioned by anybody else in the WC testimony. The role of the Dallas Secret Service is plain when one filters in all the testimony from the Washington DC Secret Service. Although the limo driver is still a question mark for me, my CT is willing to accept every word of testimony from the Washington DC Secret Service. It's only the Dallas Secret Service that worries me. From the Washington DC Secret Service we will learn about their "Protective Research Section" (PRS) that depends entirely on the local FBI in any city in which the President will visit. The PRS calls the local FBI with one question only: "Are there any dangerous people in your city that we should visit?" The answer back from the Dallas FBI was "No, there is not." The PRS replied, "Are you SURE? C'mon, this is DALLAS!" The Dallas FBI replied, "There is nobody dangerous in Dallas." There is little doubt in my mind that Dallas Secret Service agent Forrest Sorrels backed up Dallas FBI agent James Hosty in this filthy lie. All best, --Paul

Hi Jason, Here are two more good questions that you posed. 1. Lieutenant Day seems innocent enough -- he is surely educated and intelligent -- sharp as a tack -- so maybe he was fooled by the whole Dallas plot against JFK, and didn't notice anything strange enough to report to the Warren Commission. I don't buy it. I think Lt. Day gives a more accurate timeline than the others, because he doesn't want to be caught in perjury, and he doesn't want to take the 5th amendment. He knows the other Dallas cops have the excuse of being muscle-heads, but he doesn't. Either the Dallas Police Radio Log was tampered with -- so that the call to the "crime lab" at 12:58 was erased -- or, Lt. Day was communicating with other Dallas Police by using some other method than the Dallas Police Radio dispatcher. In other words, Lt. Day committed perjury when he said the dispatcher sent him to the TSBD at 12:58 pm. What other method? For one thing Lt. Day could have had previous orders just to pack up and go to the TSBD by 1 pm. That was when it was all planned to go down -- finding the bullets, the rifle, and the killing of Lee Harvey Oswald in the streets of Oak Cliff. 2. The first thing that Chief Jesse Curry says at 12:30 on the Dallas Police Radio Log, seconds after JFK was shot, was this: "Get a man on top of that triple underpass and see what happened up there!" A moment later, Sheriff Bill Decker, also in the same car, took command of the radio speaker and said this: "I am sure it's going to take some time to get your man in there. Pull every one of my men in there!" The next thing from the Dallas Police Radio Log is the dispatcher saying this: "Repeat, I didn't get all of it. I didn't quite understand all of it. Loud and clear!" In response, Sheriff Bill Decker said this: "Have my office move all available men out of my office into the railroad yard to try to determine what happened in there and hold everything secure until Homicide and other investigators should get there!" Yes, Jason, you're right -- they're talking about the railroad yard just east of the triple underpass, and west of the TSBD building. The minute was still 12:30 pm. JFK's limo was just then speeding to Parkland Hospital, with Jesse Curry and Sheriff Bill Decker leading the way. So -- for the first 15 minutes of the JFK drama, Dallas Police and Deputies did descend upon the so-called railroad yard, which was largely the parking lot behind the picket fence of the Grassy Knoll. We do have Dallas Police and Deputies testify to the WC about going there -- but they all agree on one thing -- the only thing they found there were other Dallas Police. Of course, nobody would suspect them. It was evidently in the next 15 minutes -- from 12:45 to 1:00 pm, that the TSBD would be sealed off. That's where the action was. All best, --Paul

No, no Tommy. YOU'RE reading this. And if you are, then so are others. Our "hit" counts are encouraging. Also, the CT coming out of his is new and fresh -- not that stale, old, CIA-did-it CT. Best regards, --Paul Trejo

Jason, I know it sounds like a heck of a lot of work -- but since I'm convinced that the JFK plot shows its full underbelly from 12:35 to 1:20 pm we will benefit from a minute-by-minute timeline of this 45-minute period. Who was standing where, when, and doing what? OK, I'm not requesting this NOW -- but I when I have more time I plan to work this out. The JFK plot is in HERE somewhere. The Dallas cops and Deputies are keeping back secrets about the TIMING of the events on the 6th floor of the TSBD from 12:35 to 1:20 pm. You can see it now -- and I have felt very alone for a long time on this Forum, calling for more attention to a Dallas-did-it CT. Thanks for posting these notes from Mary Ferrell -- she asks two questions I've asked for a long time, namely: 1. Why did the Dallas Police wait for a half-hour after the JFK shooting to arrive at the 6th floor, SE window, when they had several eye-witnesses telling them they saw men and guns up there? 2. Who were the two Dallas Officials that Luke Mooney saw coming down the TSBD stairs when he was going upstairs? According to Mary Ferrell, and perhaps most accounts, that trek was about 12:45 pm. According to Mooney himself, it was a matter of a "few seconds" after the JFK shooting at 12:30 pm. OK, a "few minutes" is a better interpretation. But Mooney doesn't describe 15 minutes of activity before his hike upstairs. My point is, that two Dallas Officials were up there already. I'd like to see a minute by minute analysis of all Dallas Officials inside the TSBD from 12:30 to 12:50. Those 20 minutes -- as far as the WC testimony and affidavits can inform us. Finally, why didn't the Dallas Police act on the TSBD eye-witnesses who were standing outside on the sidewalk across the street from the TSBD when JFK was assassinated? The answer is given in another question -- what did the Dallas Police do INSTEAD of acting on their reports to the Dallas Police? ANSWER: The Dallas Police set up a "system" to move all witnesses, willy nilly, to the Dallas County Jail to give a written affidavit. That was it. By doing that, they had a solid alibi for ignoring witnesses they knew saw something realistic -- namely -- they could claim that all these dozens of witnesses failed to agree with each other, and they needed MORE TIME to sort it all out. Maybe another day, after they had all the affidavits officially notarized. All best, --Paul

Jason, You've been posting a lot of stuff, and I haven't had time to respond to it -- until now. First, this post from yesterday: About Ricky White --- 1. The problem with that 1990 Texas Monthly attack on "I am Mandarin," was that it was too hasty. The article did not grasp the enormity of Geneva White having another BYP. Also, the article did not sufficiently discount the fact that both Ricky and Geneva White were inarticulate to a fault, and so their stories were necessarily sloppy. Ricky White, for example, said that his father Roscoe was belonged to "the right-wing of the CIA." Well, there's no such thing. Sure, there are Republicans in the CIA -- but officially, one cannot belong to the US Radical Right (which is openly racist, sexist and classist) and also be an employee of the CIA. This error was due to Ricky White's lack of political education. As for Geneva White, she was subjected to shock treatment long before this interview -- so her neurosis was added to her lack of political savvy -- and IMHO a sincere journalist would have made discounts and allowances for these flaws. The Texas Monthly article of 1990 failed to make these allowances. The material evidence of the BYP is much better than any diary, allegedly written by Roscoe White, claiming to be "Mandarin," because anybody could argue that such a diary was merely a Hollywood pitch, and leave it at that. 2. The brilliance of Jack White was demonstrated in two ways: (2.1) in his discovery of Roscoe White as the body double in the BYP; and (2.2.) in his theory of the Dallas Police plot in the assassination of JFK. I very much appreciate that you quoted Jack's 8-step theory from The Third Decade, Vol 6, No. 6, September 1990. The only reason I'm not a Jack White fan is because nobody is perfect, as proved by his original authorship of the ridiculous "Harvey and Lee" CT. As I say, nobody's perfect. 3. As for Dave Perry's article attacking Ricky White, pretending to be a defense of Ricky's own father, Roscoe White, in The Fourth Decade, Vol 4, No 1, November 1996, I have only one comment. I read that weak article years ago, and it surprises me that nobody has shot it down, point by weak point, since 1996. That's more than 20 years ago -- and CTers let that stand. Pitiful. 4. The fact of the BYP produced by Geneva White, exhibited in 1977 by the HSCA, is perhaps the most important material evidence we have of a Dallas Police plot to assassinate JFK, because Roscoe White was on the Dallas Police Force starting in the month that Lee Harvey Oswald entered Dallas for the last time in his life -- October, 1963. 5. In my humble opinion, the testimony of Mike Robinson is a perfect match for Geneva White's BYP. A perfect match. 6. ...Why would Roscoe White end up with this totally new BYP? My theory is that Roscoe knew Lee Harvey Oswald in some US Marines scenario before 1963. The BYP go back to the George De Mohrenschildt period of Oswald in Dallas (1/1963 - 3/1963), so this is before the Walker shooting, before the New Orleans FPCC period -- very early in 1963. Yet we have Roscoe White's body in the BYP (says Jack White). In my CT, the BYP were Faked on professional grade photo equipment Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall, when Oswald worked there. There must be some evidence of this -- the children of former JCS employees must have something. All best, --Paul

Hi Jason, Yes, the ho-hum attitude of Captain Will Fritz toward the so-called sniper's nest is extra evidence of the Good Old Boy Network among Dallas Officials in 1963. I feel confident, on the basis of existing evidence, that the sniper's nest was constructed by the Dallas Deputies and Police starting from a few minutes after the JFK Assassination until 12:58 pm when Captain Fritz and Sheriff Decker arrived. Fritz knew his boys made it. All best, --Paul

Jason, Great analysis of the WC testimony of Jesse Curry. Curry feels he can speak with authority about all the activities of the Dallas Police because he was the Chief. He read or heard all of the reports from his men. He was the highest authority in the DPD just as Bill Decker was the highest authority in the Dallas Sheriff's Department. The only Dallas Policeman to publish a book about the JFK Assassination was Jesse Curry. It is mainly a printout of the Dallas Police Radio Log, with commentary by Chief Jesse Curry. My point is that even though Jesse Curry was almost entirely at Parkland Hospital with LBJ, and on AF1 with LBJ during the entire Oswald crisis, he considered himself an expert on whatever his men did. It is indeed bizarre that he would mention searches of license plates and automobile checks when other ranking officers didn't. However, some officers did. For example, Deputy Roger Craig (who reported to Sheriff Decker) says that he saw a lady in a car leaving the parking lot behind the picket fence of the Grassy Knoll two minutes after the JFK shooting -- and he refused to let her pass. He detained her, despite her protests, and then he turned her over to a Dallas policeman, with instructions not to let her pass. We never heard about her again -- nor from any Dallas policeman who detained her. You ask a great question, Jason, when you demand to see a written record of license plates checked from cars behind the picket fence of the Grassy Knoll. That parking lot had only one exit, which was the same as the entrance, and only those with a lock for the key could enter. It was almost exclusively for Officers of County Jail. Finally -- you are absolutely correct that Jesse Curry gives the most generous leeway for the sealing of the TSBD than any other witness -- a half-hour after the JFK shots! Even after high-school student Amos Euins told Dallas Police within a couple minutes of the JFK shots at 12:30pm, that he saw a man stick a rifle out a top floor of the TSBD, and he saw a shot blast -- the TSBD was still not sealed off until 1pm, according to Curry. Amos Euins saw no face, but he saw a man with a rifle and a shot. Next thing he knew after he told Dallas Police, he was in the custody of Dallas Secret Service agent Forrest Sorrels and then detained at Dallas County Jail until 6pm. All best, --Paul

Jason, Your feedback about Forrest Sorrels is amazing. He is a prime suspect. Here is my addition: Sorrels sped to the TSBD specifically to meet with high school student Amos Euins. Euins had been an eye-witness to a rifle firing from one of the top SE floors of the TSBD, and Euins had to be arrested and confused with expertise. All best, --Paul

Hi Jason, I want to respond to these three points: (1) I strongly agree to bring in the WC testimony of Dallas FBI agents James Hosty and Bookhout, and Dallas Postal Inspector Harry Holmes in connection with the WC testimony of Captain Will Fritz, because they all saw LHO during his final hour at DPD HQ. I would add Dallas Secret Service agent Forrest Sorrels to that number. (2) The problem I have with the WC testimony of Victoria Adams is that her memory of the TIMING of events in the 20 minutes after the JFK shooting is completely unreliable, IMHO. (3) Even if those two Deputies coming down the stairs of the TSBD as Luke Mooney was going up, were the very ones who planted Oswald's rifle and shells -- I still would not absolve Luke Mooney from plotting with them. Why does he dare to mention them? Because he's not a very accomplished L-I-A-R -- probably. Possibly his guilt led him to point out OTHER Dallas Deputies in the TSBD plot. All best, --Paul

Jason, Your reference to your hypothesis as a hypothesis is useful here. Although I like where you're going with this data, you keep us aware that we're slipping into speculation. Although this speculation is rare, some researchers shown at Mary Ferrell's website did note it in the past. (Still, nobody until now seems to have connected it with a Dallas-did-it CT.) Anyway, I agree to keep my finger here to return to it later. For now, since we have nothing more solid than the Dallas Police Radio Log, I propose to stick with it as far as possible, and give it the benefit of the doubt until we have material evidence of Log tampering. The problem I see now is that Lieutenant Day's meticulous timeline clashes with the Police Radio Log. He claims the dispatcher sent the order to take crime lab equipment to the TSBD came at 12:58 and he and Studebaker left HQ "straight up" at 1pm. Yet we see no Dallas Police Radio Log for any instruction to Lt. Day. If, however, the Dallas Police Radio Log was tampered with on the night of 11/22/1963, how could anybody PROVE that? So -- I propose to resist the temptation to argue for Log tampering (because there is no end to such a speculation) and to attribute all discrepancies as far as possible to "mistakes." Then, only the most egregious "mistakes" will fall out. All best, --Paul

Hi Jason, Thanks for posting the 8-step theory by Jack White about how Roscoe White could have killed JD Tippit. His account is close to my CT, but there are significant divergences. Here are my own eight steps: 1. I agree that Roscoe White and JD Tippit are the two cops who came to the rooming house where Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) was staying, and beeped the horn, twice, as heard and testified by Earlene Roberts. 2. I don't believe that LHO was a shooter at JFK, so I don't believe that he needed an airplane to get out of Dallas. I discount that angle. LHO knew he was a small player on a bigger team. 3. It seems to me that LHO joined Tippit and White down the street someplace -- i.e. on the way to the Texas Theater. Roscoe White would not need to pull over just to change his shirt. 4. However, once inside TIppit's car, there was some sort of a fight. Roscoe White was not assigned to shoot Tippit -- they were both assigned to shoot Oswald, and back each other up. However, Tippit somehow got out of control. My speculative guess is that Tippit was Badgeman (based on photographic theory) and that Tippit went sort of manic, bragging and boasting about being the man who shot JFK, and that he had to tell the whole world, he was so proud! Tippit then told LHO he was going to die, next, and LHO exited the car, Tippit drew his gun, LHO outdrew him, and shot Tippit -- but not fatally -- and LHO ran like hell. 5. Roscoe White, recognizing that Tippit was ready to blab everything to the world, felt he had to shoot Tippit -- in the head -- in the interest of the whole plot. 6. Roscoe White also fled the scene, to avoid witnesses. Knowing LHO fled to the Texas Theater (the planned meeting spot), Roscoe walked there, and placed a public phone call to the Dallas Police, telling them to go to the Texas Theater. On this point I also agree with Jack White. 7. I don't believe that Roscoe White pointed out Lee Harvey Oswald -- it was the Theater manager, I believe. However, Roscoe White did join his Dallas cop pals at the Texas Theater, and they drove him back to DPD HQ. 8. In no way was Jack Ruby the plot coordinator. Instead, when DPD Chief Jesse Curry realized that the subplot to shoot-LHO-in-the-street had failed, he had to find a backup hit-man in a hurry. He put pressure on his cops to put pressure on Jack Ruby -- who owed them some favors. Jack didn't want to do it, but they put on that old high-school chum pressure, and virtually promised Jack that he would be a hero if he did it. So, Jack Ruby killed LHO on his 2nd try. This, to me, is a more realistic scenario. I admit that it is largely guess-work, but notice how closely it fits with Jack White's theory -- without even trying. Also -- notice how it makes sense of Earlene Roberts' testimony, and also various eye-witnesses of LHO rushing to the Texas Theater on foot. Also, it makes sense of the 14-year old Mike Robinson's overhearing of Roscoe White's "confession." It also validates Seth Kantor's opinion of Jack Ruby (1971). Also -- I believe 90% of what Ricky White reports. The BYP that his family had is good evidence, but Jack White's photographic discovery of Roscoe White's chin, neck, shoulders, lumpy right wrist and back-leaning stance, is stronger evidence, IMHO. EXPLAINING THE BYP: How do I explain Jack White's identification of Roscoe White in the BYP? I say that LHO was a CIA-wannabe ever since he got back from the USSR. Because he was young and naive, he believed George De Mohrenschildt was a CIA agent (and George did not deny it) and since George loudly expressed his passionate hatred for General Walker, LHO thought he would get in good with the CIA if he assassinated General Walker. LHO met Roscoe White in some US Marines context in Dallas -- both having served at Atsugi during the same year -- and LHO convinced Roscoe that LHO was soon getting a job in the CIA, and when he got it, he would help Roscoe get into the CIA as well. All LHO needed was a Fake Photograph with Plausible Denial, to show he had the "right stuff" to be a double-agent. Roscoe -- also naive -- agreed to these terms, and he helped LHO create the BYP at the Neeley Street address (wearing black clothes) and LHO's access to high-tech camera equipment at the Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall company. LHO lied to Marina, used Roscoe's black clothes, and she took one photograph. LHO would use that one for the face, to paste onto the others he'd made with Roscoe. This way, Marina would always be deceived about the BYP, and LHO would always have Plausible Deniability. After LHO tried to shoot General Walker, however, Roscoe White felt like an idiot, and thought of LHO as an idiot. As Ron Lewis claimed (FLASHBACK, 1993) LHO was then "adopted" by Guy Banister and David Ferrie in New Orleans, who knew about the Walker shooting, were good friends with Walker, and so blackmailed LHO into playing ball after that. Roscoe White was willing to work with LHO later in 1963, on that basis only. OTHERWISE -- (given my acceptance of the WC testimony of Marina Oswald, Ruth Paine and all WC testimony except for Dallas Officials and all the alleged "LHO sightings" which were always cases of mistaken identity) it is next to impossible to explain how Geneva White had a unique copy of the BYP, and why Jack White said that Roscoe White was the body double. All best, --Paul

Hi Jason, I agree, so let me bring the ordinary CIA-did-it CTer up-to-date. Mike Robinson -- then 14 years old -- said that he and his pals rode their bikes to the Dallas Police HQ to see the chaos with their own eyes. They had actually known JD Tippit, and (IIRC) Mike Robinson's dad was a Dallas cop, so these boys were curious. Dallas Police HQ was just packed with Dallas Police, Deputies, newspaper reporters and cameramen from around the world. Mike Robinson went to the basement to use the men's room there, and went into a toilet stall. Thinking he was not supposed to be there -- when two cops entered, he lifted his feet onto the toilet, so that his feet would not be visible, and he would not be seen. He remained very quiet. While sitting there, claims Mike, he heard the two cops bickering, and then one of the cops yelled -- "You were supposed to shoot Oswald! Why the hell did you shoot Tippit?!" Mike knew he wasn't supposed to hear that. He waited until the two cops left, and another minute afterwards, to ensure they went away. Yet Mike could never forget those voices he heard, or those words spoken. After a minute, Mike left the bathroom, yet right outside the door he heard the same two voices bickering -- and he briefly looked up and saw the face of one of the cops staring at him with looks that could kill. He swears to this day that the cop was Roscoe White. So -- that's the story. There's nothing more to it. What confounds CTers to this day is that during the 1990's, Roscoe's son, Ricky White, told Gary Mack that his father had confessed to being a shooter at JFK and had also killed JD Tippit. FURTHERMORE, Ricky's mother, Geneva White, produced a version of Lee Harvey Oswald's "Backyard Photograph" (BYP) that nobody else had before seen in US history. This BYP is material evidence of some connection between Roscoe White and Lee Harvey Oswald. FURTHERMORE -- also during the 1990's, photographer Jack White (a late, stellar member of this Forum) provided some material evidence that the chin, neck, shoulders, lumpy right wrist and backward stance in the BYP all belong to Roscoe White -- with a photo of the head of Lee Harvey Oswald simply pasted onto it. Jack White found this evidence in all versions of the Oswald BYP known to US History. So -- there's the weird connection. What do Roscoe White and JD Tippit have to do with Lee Harvey Oswald? What role did Roscoe White and JD Tippit play in any alleged JFK plot within the Dallas Police Department? These are urgent questions to sort out. Extending your argument further, Jason, we might venture a hypothesis -- that Roscoe White and JD Tippit were known to Captain Will Fritz and Sheriff Bill Decker (and likely also to DPD Chief Jesse Curry) to be part of a JFK subplot -- the Oak Cliff project to kill Lee Harvey Oswald in the street. Since the Dallas Police already had Lee Harvey Oswald's rifle (which Oswald was tricked into handing over to them outside the TSBD building that very morning, said Gerry Patrick Hemming to A.J. Weberman) and since Oswald was already thoroughly sheep-dipped in New Orleans and Mexico City earlier in 1963, there was no need for Oswald anymore. By the way -- we have two more connections to solidify -- not now, but eventually -- namely: (1) Jeff Caufield's placing of JD Tippit at Austin's BBQ with General Walker on most weekends of 1962-1963; and (2) Ron Lewis's placing of Roscoe White in New Orleans with Guy Banister during the summer of 1963. In my CT, all of these connections in the Dallas Police, the Dallas Sheriff's office (as well as all the suspects named by Jim Garrison and Joan Mellen) will come to an apex in the Dallas Radical Right, with Ex-General Edwin Walker as its leader. It may be worthwhile to take another glance at this Newsweek cover from December, 1961: http://www.pet880.com/images/19611204_Newsweek_Cover.JPG As well as this video on YouTube, which was taken around the same time period: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYyONwsHqbw As well as this photograph from October 7, 1962, showing General Walker at Love Field, returning to Dallas from the Missouri insane asylum to which JFK and RFK sent him after the deadly Ole Miss racial riots of September 30, 1962. Notice in this photo that Walker's followers bandy a Confederate Flag, and promote Walker for US President in 1964. Also notice the soot on Walker's shoulder -- that was likely from tear gas stains from the Ole Miss riots (where Robert Alan Surrey was always at his side). This was the same suit that Walker wore at Ole Miss. http://www.pet880.com/images/19621007_Walker_returns_to_Dallas.jpg All best, --Paul

Jason, You have just outlined one of the most unique and interesting JFK Conspiracy Theories I have ever read in 25 years of reading JFK CT literature. Furthermore, you have constructed it on the basis of WC evidence and sworn testimony. I conclude that this line of thinking merits further digging -- in exactly the same spot where we are currently digging. This gold mine is not exhausted. All best, --Paul

Jason, You are pushing the envelope, and that's good -- although I am reluctant to follow you, because this would mean re-creating the Dallas Police Radio Log based on Roger Craig's testimony. Deputy Roger Craig -- in my opinion -- was loyal to Deputy Buddy Walthers, even though Buddy Walthers dismissed Roger Craig as basically worthless. Roger Craig could not keep up with the changes -- that's my opinion. The fact that Oswald did escape in an automobile driven by an ACCOMPLICE was reported correctly by Roger Craig -- however, the entire Sheriff's Office denied Roger Craig's story! This is important, in my CT. Roger Craig was trying to play ball, but he was far too clumsy. Then, after Roger Craig was fired by Sheriff Decker some years later, and Roger Craig became a grocery bagger and shopping cart collector -- he also began to play ball with Jim Garrison and Penn Jones, Jr. So, it's hard to pinpoint the Truth in what Roger Craig says, from the Fiction in what he says. Here's my example from the Dallas Police Radio Log: 1:18 PM TIPPIT CAR RADIO: A citizen came on the Police Radio stating, "Hello, police operator!" 531 Go ahead TIPPIT CAR RADIO: "We've had a shooting here." 531 Where is it at? TIPPIT CAR RADIO: "10th Street, between Marsalis and Beckley. It's a police officer. Somebody shot him. 404 10th St." 531 Called squad 78 TIPPIT CAR RADIO: "It's in police No. 10. Did you get that?" 531 Signal 19 involving a police officer. 510 East Jefferson. TIPPIT CAR RADIO: "Thank you" So, this is very detailed, and the time given by the Dallas Police Radio dispatch was very specific about time. At 1:19 PM, there were many calls from squad cars back to the Dallas Police Radio dispatcher. So -- in this case -- why would Roger Craig's watch say 1:06 when the Dallas Police Radio dispatch had its first notice at 1:18? I am inclined to believe the Dallas Police Radio dispatcher on this point. The problem -- a recurrent problem -- in WC testimony, is that the WC witnesses cannot agree about TIMING. This is glaring in the WC testimony of TSBD workers. For example, Roy Truly thought that only 15-20 minutes had passed after the JFK shooting, before Truly told the Dallas Police that Lee Harvey Oswald was missing from his book-pickers roll call. Yet it was closer to 45 minutes by almost all other accounts. Part of the reason for that scrambled TIMING is very likely the panic and chaos after a Presidential Assassination in one's own home town. All best, --Paul

Jason, Your intuition serves you well. Here is the testimony from DPD Lt. John Day: Mr. DAY. I was in the identification bureau at the city hall. About a quarter of one I was in the basement of the city hall, which is three floors under me actually I am on the fourth floor--and a rumor swept through there that the President had been shot. I returned to my office to get on the radio and wait for the developments. Shortly before 1 o'clock I received a call from the police dispatcher to go to 411 Elm Street, Dallas. Mr. BELIN. Is there any particular building at that particular location? Mr. DAY. The Texas School Book Depository, I believe is the correct name on it. Mr. BELIN. Did you go there? Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; I went out of my office almost straight up 1 o'clock. I arrived at the location on Elm about 1:12. So, there is our answer, and so Mooney and Fritz are correct. Shortly before 1pm, the Dallas Police Radio dispatcher called Lt. Day to tell him to go to the TSBD. Let us say this was 12:58 PM, the very minute that Captain Fritz, Sheriff Decker, and Detectives Boyd and Sims arrived at the TSBD from Parkland Hospital. This was also the time that Deputy Mooney claims that he found the spent shells. So, this is correct. THEREFORE -- what is incorrect in the Dallas Radio Log is any claim that the shells were found at 1:11. Or even reported found. That is, according to Lt. Day and Det. Studebaker of the "crime lab" -- they got a call for their technical services BEFORE 1PM. They arrived at the TSBD at 1:12. All best, --Paul

Hi Jason, I may be mistaken, yet I continually return to my hypothesis about the Dallas Police Radio Log -- that all the Dallas Police and Deputies tried to follow it to the best of their memories in their WC testimony. You have presented an interesting letter from Deputy Chief Lumpkin, which states that at 1:12 PM, Lt. Day and his sidekick, Det. Studebaker, arrived at the TSBD. They comprised the core of the so-called "crime lab," or technical support which operated the photography and fingerprint equipment. How could they arrive at the TSBD from DPD HQ the very second that the shells were found? They had to be called first, and then they would get in their lab truck and unload their camera equipment and begin photographing and dusting the crime scene. Their rule was: never touch the evidence until after it has been photographed and dusted for fingerprints. Most of the time the DPD followed that rule. Now -- the Dallas Police Radio Log says that the spent rifle shells were reported as found at 1:11 PM. At that point, Deputy Luke Mooney reportedly stuck his neck out the window, saw Captain Fritz and Sheriff Decker on the sidewalk below, and shouted out that he found the shells, and to send up the crime-lab. Now -- this is only a 11 minute discrepancy from what Luke Mooney reported (1pm which seems confirmed by Captain Fritz, who said he arrived at the TSBD at 12:58 pm). So, this might be explained by simple bureaucratic sluggishness. In other words, it is possible that the shells were found at 1pm, but all the team at the TSBD waited for Captain Fritz to walk upstairs and look at them, and order people to guard them, before he called the Dallas Police Radio Dispatcher. If that's correct, then the Dallas Dispatcher didn't log when the shells were FOUND, but he logged when the Dallas Police REPORTED that the shells were found. If that's correct -- and if we allow 11 full minutes for that delay -- then Luke Mooney's timing is correct. I still think it's a problem -- but it's more complex than I've considered in the past. This will take some fresh analysis. My starting point will be Roy Truly. His timing is truly bizarre -- because he was convinced that he told Captain Fritz about Lee Harvey Oswald BEFORE 1PM. Let's see his testimony: Mr. TRULY. No, sir; I just said, "I have a man that is missing. I don't know whether it means anything, but this is the name." Representative FORD. Do you know about what time that was that you told the police? Mr. TRULY. I could be wrong, but I think it was around 15--between 15 minutes or 20 minutes after the shots, or something. I could be as far off as 5 minutes or so. I don't know. I did not seem to think it was very long. We might have spent more time up on the roof and coming down, and then I might have walked out in the shipping department. Everybody was running up asking questions. Time could fool me. But I did not think it was but about 15 or 20 minutes later. Here is Roy Truly thinking that he told the Dallas Police that LHO was missing as early as 12:45 or 12:50, and quickly called TSBD HQ for Oswald's address, and quickly took this upstairs to Captain Fritz. My point here -- is that TIMING events was obviously chaotic during the first half-hour after the JFK Assassination -- mainly because the major Dallas Police Officials who should have been valiantly leading -- Chief Curry, Captain Fritz and Sheriff Decker -- were content to follow the bureaucratic flow. Yet let me ask you, Jason. I might be mistaken, but you continually bring us back to the possibility of Mooney finding and reporting the rifle shells at 1pm -- 11 minutes earlier than logged. Captain Fritz also seems to want to say this. What would be the consequences of accepting a timing of 1pm for finding the spent shells? What am I possibly missing here? All best, --Paul

Hi Jason, 0. Captain Fritz never mentions Sheriff Decker because the JFK plot sits inside every meeting they have. (A) At the curb outside Parkland Hospital; (B ) at the curb outside TSBD; and (C) at Decker's office inside County Jail. 1. I'm delighted to read Officer Sims' testimony admitting the presence of Sheriff Decker at (A) and (C) above. Does he go off script...or is he truly innocent? Sims and Boyd appear to be muscle-headed "Yes-men" to Will Fritz. They don't seem to think for themselves. 2. Captain Fritz has one main motive in muddying the timeline, IMHO, and that is to evade any discussion about his meetings with Sheriff Decker that afternoon. 3. Capt Fritz says he left TSBD for City Hall almost immediately after the rifle is found around 1:20. This matches Roy Truly's account. Fritz was examining the rifle when he and Lumpkin interrupted Fritz to give him Oswald's name and Ruth Paine's address. Then Fritz left. The missing next hour in Fritz's timeline was probably spent largely with Sheriff Decker. 4. Boyd, like Sims, also remembers Sheriff Decker in the car from Parkland to TSBD. Boyd also remembers that Fritz and Decker had a meeting at County Jail. 5. Sheriff Decker also tries to muddy the timeline, since he implies that he arrived at the TSBD before Fritz ("and Fritz arrived") while they drove in the same car. Yet Decker will not dispute Sims and Boyd that Fritz met with Decker at City Hall. 6. Here is the closest thing to a timeframe we will get from Sheriff Decker. Mr. HUBERT: Now, when did you make any efforts to take custody of Oswald? Mr. DECKER: ...On Friday afternoon we were taking statements in my office you know --this thing...occurred just across the street from my office, and we moved all the witnesses when we were on the ground there at the scene...I was working there and I had Inspector Sawyer, who is there with me, and also Heitman of the FBI and my assistant chief deputy, and every witness, just as we picked up a witness that had any information at all, we sent him directly across the street to my office and reduced his statement to writing. Then, I talked to Fritz after he arrived. We had by then located the gun and the ammunition, my officers had located it in the building, and was awaiting the arrival of the scene searchers and also the arrival of my scene searchers; and Fritz arrived and then I talked to Fritz and then we went across the street and he phoned; and that's when I learned Oswald had been formerly employed there at that building. And, Fritz went to the city... All best, --Paul

Jason, 0. You ask why DPD Captain Will Fritz (with sidekicks Sims and Boyd) went to Parkland Hospital directly from the Trade Mart. Here is what Fritz testified: Mr. FRITZ. ...We went to Parkland Hospital as we had been instructed, and as we drove up in front of the hospital, we I suppose intercepted the chief, Chief Curry, between the curb and the hospital, and I told him we had had a call to the hospital but I felt we were going to the wrong place, we should go to the scene of the crime and he said, "Well, go ahead," so I don't think our car ever quit rolling but we went right to the scene of the crime. WIll Fritz claimed that they "had been instructed" to go to Parkland over Dallas Police Radio. That would have been by the orders of Chief Jesse Curry. This fits with Fritz's complaint to Jesse Curry that "we were going to the wrong place." Curry evidently changed his mind and let them go to the TSBD -- but Will Fritz completely left out the key fact mentioned by Sims and Boyd -- that Sheriff Bill Decker jumped into their car at Parkland Hospital. 1. I don't think Fritz created that Team Notebook -- I think Jesse Curry made it for him, to help Fritz with his confused timeline. The Team Notebook was evidently based on the Dallas Police Radio Log. 2. Fritz refers to the Team Notebook to get the time of the JFK shooting confirmation at the Trade Mart: 12:35. 3. Curry was at the curb of Parkland Hospital because he had no medical skills to share inside the Hospital. His main task was Dallas host to LBJ and Jackie Kennedy. The reason that Fritz pinpointed 12:58 arrival time at the TSBD so clearly was that this was in his Team Notebook, based on the the Dallas Police Radio Log. It was also his Hollywood scene grand entrance. 4. The best explanation for Fritz, Sims and Boyd taking 10 minutes to travel 1.5 MPH to Parkland Hospital was that they dallied. They were already in the car, as Fritz testifies, since they were listening to the Dallas Police Radio starting at 12:36. Fritz claimed that he wanted to be certain that this wasn't "a hoax." 5. It seems to me that Captain Fritz was in no hurry to get into action at the TSBD, because then many DPD cops would have followed him there -- and they might have interfered with the plan to arrange the 6th floor of the TSBD just right. Many cops were respectful enough to let the Captain get there first and give orders. It was mainly Sheriff Decker's men who were at the TSBD at this point. (It was Decker's men who found the shells and the rifle.) 6. Fritz is keen to say that his car "barely stopped rolling" at Parkland. But given the accurate timeline you've accounted for, Jason, it seems that Curry, Fritz and Decker -- the three highest ranking Dallas Officers in the JFK plot -- were having a pow-wow there at the curb of Parkland Hospital. It's significant that Fritz omits Decker getting into Fritz's car -- while Sims and Boyd admit it. All best, --Paul