Rodney Rivers

Thanks for posting that. I don't know the publication, but it sounds mainstream, and can't beleive they allowed it to be published. hopefully this is a sign of things turning around in the MSM with the JFK Assassination. I liked reading some of the comments on that page you linked to. What are your thoughts about this (maybe this should be posted on the JFK section??): Road Trip July 2, 2012 at 3:34 PM John F. Kennedy was assassinated by a CIA hit team that had been assembled under the guise of assassinating Fidel Castro. Alexander Haig commanded the operation and Howard Hunt was the mastermind. Haig had been assigned to the CIA’s Cuban operations under Army Secretary Cyrus Vance. Hunt had been a key player in the Bay of Pigs operation. When Howard Hunt was linked to the Watergate break-in, intelligence community insiders quickly linked him to Alexander Haig. To conceal his CIA history and the truth about the JFK assassination, Haig, by then a top Nixon aide, diverted the Watergate investigations away from Howard Hunt’s CIA activities and towards Richard Nixon’s reelection committee. When Gerald Ford pardoned Richard Nixon, the entire CIA question went away. But once you understand the Haig-Hunt connection, it all comes together. The link between Watergate and the JFK assassination suddenly makes sense. When Gerald Ford pardoned Richard Nixon for Watergate, he actually pardoned Alexander Haig for the JFK assassination. This is all discussed for the first time in Against Them, the new book by Tegan Mathis: http://www.amazon.com/B/dp/1469934647/ If you’re interested in this stuff, read Against Them. Report this comment

The problem with some of the Nixon tapes as one of his aides described years later was that Nixon was just blowing off steam after a day's of work. I don't think you can claim all his quotes to this, but sometimes I wonder if this guy seriously thought these type of things or was really just blowing off steam. I wasn't around on Earth when Nixon was POTUS, but it's hard for me to believe a guy could have been so out there in modern times and actually existed. But when I talk to old timers, they all tell me he was pretty much pure evil. Few questions here, I'd like to get your responses - 1.Nathaniel H posted about two detentes? Can you please explain that? Did you mean JFk trying to reach peace with USSR and Nixon actually doing so per co-existence? 2.When I was in college, I had the opportunity to intern one summer in a government agency which I will not mention (no no not the CIA or anything like that). During this time, ,most of my superiors were either Vietnam Vets or soon to be retirees who were in their 30s and 40s in the 1960s and 1970s. So of course, being the naive young buck which I was, I always liked to know about what they thought of historical figures from their era. Of course I always mentioned JFK, RFK, MLK, Nixon, etc.. Anyway, I was surprised that maybe 1/3 of these guys told me that yes, Nixon was dirty, but the Kennedys were just as much or EVEN MORE dirty that Nixon! I was somewhat shocked to hear this and it's sort of stuck with me all these years. Basically they were saying, back when JFK was president, the media loved him and would always protect him. But when it came to Nixon and the early 70s, things had changed and they all hated Nixon and everything was out in the open. If they were the same way with JFK, the world would be shocked to learn of JFK/RFK's dirty tricks. What do you all think about that? True? Somewhat True? Or maybe these guys had an axe to grind?

I first only heard of the Steel Crisis of 1962 when I read Douglass' book last year. This never came up in my schooling from 30 years ago (elementary-middle-HS) and I'm betting it's not taught in our schools today. Why is that? Every child at least in HS should be given the history of the Steel Crisis. Amazing the 'balls' JFK had in going after industrial giants like these. It would be the equivelent of say W or Obama going after Wall Street CEOs during the whole economic collapse. I guess JFK getting his head blown off showed those 2 guys who not to mess with. They got their point across to future presidents. As for Industrial Policy, maybe you have something there. Seems like a lot of plans JFK had for his 2nd term are rare to find. Most of them we know from his secretary Evelyn Lincoln , i.e. New VP Canidate in 64, JFK wanted to make politics an honorable pursuit again for young people, getting out of Vietnam. The man did have some big ideas for his 2nd term which he obviously couldn't do in his first without the risk of not being re-elected. Will have to research this angle more. One of my favorite JFK quotes out of that Steel Crisis in 62 : 'My father always told me that all businessmen were sons of bitches, but I never believed it till now.' - John F. Kennedy They're still all sons of bitches Mr. President. Even more so now then when you were alive. At least back then we had guys like you who defended us. Now everyone who runs for President is bought off before he/she takes the office. R.I.P. Jack. We'll never forget what you did for us.

American Pie Don McLean - I know it's about Buddy Holly / Richie Valens but this part Is speculated to be about JFK Assassination : Now, for ten years we've been on our own And moss grows fat on a rolling stone But that's not how it used to be When the jester sang for the king and queen - oswald In a coat he borrowed from james dean And a voice that came from you and me Oh and while the king was looking down - JFK Assassination The jester stole his thorny crown - JFK Assassination The courtroom was adjourned -Warren Commission No verdict was returned -Warren Commission And while lenin read a book on marx The quartet practiced in the park And we sang dirges in the dark The day the music died We were singing

Nixon was clearly removed from power by the CIA. Although he deserved it (his crimes were far worse than Watergate), the fact remains, like JFK, the CIA removed an elected president. That's an interesting theory but why would they want to remove him? I know Nixon threatened to come out with the whole 'Bay of Pigs thing' that the CIA was afarid of. I don't know if this is legit or not, but somewhere sometime long ago I read where Nixon was souring on the CIA as well. Is that sort of where you're going with the CIA removed Nixon theory? Very intrigued to hear your thoughts. Who knows what other diabolic things Nixon did as VP and POTUS. We may never know the truth.

Nelson's book has some good info. LBJ was ducking down in the car before the turn into the snipers nest. One of the patrol men noticed this and documented it. Also, in the Altgens photo, you cannot see LBJ in the car since he's ducking down. Also, there is a story of an argument between JFK/LBJ about who should ride besides LBJ in the motorcade. It was reported to be a highly volitile argument. LBJ wanted Yarborough to ride besides JFK and Conally besides LBJ. Also he wanted Jackie to ride in the VP Car. Of course JFK was like eff that idea. Maybe JFK knew something was up and thought if he had LBJ's best friend and his wife in the same car , nothing would happen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyRQ_Ym4gTw&list=PL38390ED8460039CA&feature=plcp

I think he is a very honorable man. He knows what really happened, but he's a loyal agent thru and thru, and won't ever go against the current standard line the gov. gives us. Also, I speculate Jackie probably told him not to delve into conspiracy and he probably kept that promise to her.

Nelson's book 'LBJ: The Mastermind of JFK's Assassination' has a pretty good account of Sen. Yarborough's recollections if you can get a hold of it.

l'm not sure if this is true or not, but it's interesting to listen to. Description : Ian Punnett welcomed author Peter Levenda, who discussed how his research suggests that Adolf Hitler faked his death and escaped to Indonesia using an underground network of Nazi sympathizers. He detailed a myriad of inconsistencies surrounding the official story that Hitler died in his bunker in April of 1945, including how the German witnesses who claimed to have seen Hitler's dead body in the aftermath of his suicide all had drastically different tales. Additionally, he noted discrepancies surrounding the verification of the body using dental records as well as the incongruous handling of it once it was declared to be Hitler. "The whole scenario is unreal," Levenda said, "Forensically, medically, no matter how you look at it, it could not have happened that way." Based on his investigation, Levenda put forward the theory that Hitler and Eva Braun actually fled from Germany via an elaborate escape plan that saw Nazi war criminals spirited out of the country by hiding them at monasteries and giving them forged travel documents. He theorized that the couple first went to Argentina, where many other high ranking Nazis had also gone, but that it was too dangerous for Hitler to stay there due to his notoriety. Therefore, Levenda said, the duo then decamped to the remote Indonesian island of Surabaya, where Nazi sympathy was high, but Hitler was not as well known at the time. Levenda suggested that Hitler and Braun assumed the identities of Austrians Georg Anton and Hella Poch, who had fled to Indonesia as the war was ending. The Pochs' escape, Levenda observed, was particularly suspicious because they were not wanted by the Allies and Hella abandoned a highly successful career as an anthropologist for a life of anonymity in Indonesia. Having investigated what is known about the Pochs in Indonesia, Levenda was struck by the fact that 'Hella Poch' left the country to go back to Europe the same year that Eva Braun's father became sick and died. Additionally, Levenda shared the story of his trip to Indonesia to visit the grave of Georg Anton Poch, who died in 1970. Despite not sharing the true reason for his visit to the graveyard, Levenda revealed that the man who brought him to the tombstone whispered "Hitler" to him when they arrived at the grave. For related information check out this video of Levenda's visit to Surabaya and this article on the disguises American intelligence agencies thought Hitler may have used if he had escaped. Starts with Part 2 linked below - continues with Part 3 and 4 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a45eT3t_awA&feature=bf_prev&list=PLD66D9C1B71B6A4EF Part 3 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Q2__JQ4EQ4&feature=bf_next&list=PLD66D9C1B71B6A4EF Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBsIEPrwbjc&feature=bf_next&list=PLD66D9C1B71B6A4EF

thanks moved it

Ya it's definately out there, but for stuff like this, if I don't believe it, I just take it as good fiction. It's healthy to keep an open skeptical mind, key word skeptical

moved to appropriate group - http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19098

Thought you all would be interested in this show dealing with conspiracy theories. Here's a brief description from the website - Historian and President of Washington Grove Institute, a think tank in Washington D.C, Webster Tarpley, discussed the conspiratorial mindset, and shared his intriguing analysis of current geopolitical and historical situations. More and more people are turning toward conspiracies because the "official story" behind such events as 9-11 and the JFK assassination are unbelievable or fantastic, he said. Tarpley doesn't consider himself a conspiracy theorist, but a seeker of truth, though he admitted that the uncovering of facts in many instances often does point to conspiracies. We live in an oligarchy run by financiers, and they often do conspire together for shared goals, he noted, adding that they compose a shadow government that secretly rules the US, intersecting with people at the State Dept., the CIA, and perhaps the Treasury and the Federal Reserve. Tarpley spoke about his forthcoming book about Pearl Harbor and the assassination of FDR. We're told a lot of fakery about Roosevelt like he provoked Japan, and that he kept his Naval Admirals in the dark, but the opposite was true, he said. Further, a group of Wall St. Republicans that FDR put in control of the Pentagon wanted a defeat to weaken FDR in the postwar world, and Churchill knew the time and place of the Pearl Harbor attack but kept quiet in order to draw the US into the war, he continued. Roosevelt was poisoned by a female Russian painter in April 1945, Tarpley claimed, and Stalin reportedly told FDR's son "your father was poisoned/murdered by the Churchill gang." Tarpley also commented on current situations in France, China, and Russia, as well as Syria and Libya, two countries that he visited during recent turmoils. America can get out of its economic woes by seizing control of the Federal Reserve, and stop using it to give 0% loans to bankers and financial interests, and instead give these loans with a hundred year maturity to the states, who could then start massive infrastructure rebuilding projects, he argued. Starts from PART 2 below- continues in PART 3 and PART 4 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3keoJTT6FQ&list=PL5986E75716F0892F&index=2&feature=plpp_video Part 3 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDJIqdJ1MU4&feature=bf_next&list=PL5986E75716F0892F Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shkyBShW66g&feature=bf_next&list=PL5986E75716F0892F

Since we're on the subject of Castro, has he ever said what he thinks happened to JFK on 11/22/63? Who was really behind it? I recall Oliver Stone visited him and conducted an interview (HBO?) some years back and hinted Castro knew who was behind it all but Stone never revealed it on the show. Has he leaked anything over all these years?

Coast to Coast AM had William Pepper, Sirhan's Lawyer, on last week during the first hour to discuss the RFK and MLK killings. Here is the link - it's the whole show - first hour Pepper, 2nd - 4th hours - Zodiac Murders from the 60s if you're interested in that case : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H0P6fXzG9A&list=PL359DC592B1BA04DF&feature=plcp

Ted set himself up and his nephew's recklessness in flying into a situation beyond his a abilities is the most likely explanation for the crash. I am unaware of evidence Teddy was investigating the assassination or that 'John-John' was doing so in anything more than the superficial style of George. Wow, I am honored to have two of the deepest thinkers at the EF disagree with me re Ted and his nephew. I lived in Boston when this event occurred. I saw Ted Kennedy on tv and his story was not credible in the least. I have been to the scene. Driven over the bridge. The account presented by Robert Cutler and Richard E. Sprague makes the most sense to me. Simpkin posted here at Ef a few years back. I had already been familiar with this research as I knew Bob Cutler in MA. Not well, but saw him present. I give you something to ponder from these very pages. Dawn Richard E. Sprague has some interesting information about the death of Mary Jo Kopechne at Chappaquiddick. The Power Control Group faced up to the Ted Kennedy and Kennedy family problem very early. They used the threat against the Kennedy children's lives very effectively between 1963 and 1968 to silence Bobby and the rest of the family and friends who knew the truth. It was necessary to assassinate Bobby in 1968 because with the power of the presidency he could have prevented the Group from harming the children. When Teddy began making moves to run for president in 1969 for the 1972 election, the Group decided to put some real action behind their threats. Killing Teddy in 1969 would have been too much. They selected a new way of eliminating him as a candidate. They framed him with the death of a young girl, and threw sexual overtones in for good measure. Here is what happened according to Robert Cutler's (You the Jury - 1974) analysis of the evidence. The Group hired several men and at least one woman to be at Chappaquiddick during the weekend of the yacht race and the planned party on the island. They ambushed Ted and Mary Jo after they left the cottage and knocked Ted out with blows to his head and body. They took the unconscious or semi-conscious Kennedy to Martha's Vineyard and deposited him in his hotel room. Another group took Mary Jo to the bridge in Ted's car, force fed her with a knock out potion of alcoholic beverage, placed her in the back seat, and caused the car to accelerate off the side of the bridge into the water. They broke the windows on one side of the car to insure the entry of water; then they watched the car until they were sure Mary JO would not escape. Mary Jo actually regained consciousness and pushed her way to the top of the car (which was actually the bottom of the car - it had landed on its roof) and died from asphyxiation. The group with Teddy revived him early in the morning and let him know he had a problem. Possibly they told him that Mary JO had been kidnapped. They told him his children would be killed if he told anyone what had happened and that he would hear from them. On Chappaquiddick, the other group made contact with Markham and Gargan, Ted's cousin and lawyer. They told both men that Mary JO was at the bottom of the river and that Ted would have to make up a story about it, not revealing the existence of the group. One of the men resembled Ted and his voice sounded something like Ted's. Markham and Gargan were instructed to go the the Vineyard on the morning ferry, tell Ted where Mary JO was, and come back to the island to wait for a phone call at a pay station near the ferry on the Chappaquiddick side. The two men did as they were told and Ted found out what had happened to Mary JO that morning. The three men returned to the pay phone and received their instructions to concoct a story about the "accident" and to report it to the police. The threat against Ted's children was repeated at that time. Ted, Markham and Gargan went right away to police chief Arena's office on the Vineyard where Ted reported the so-called "accident." Almost at the same time scuba diver John Farror was pulling Mary JO out of the water, since two boys who had gone fishing earlier that morning had spotted the car and reported it. Ted called together a small coterie of friends and advisors including family lawyer Burke Marshall, Robert MacNamara, Ted Sorenson, and others. They met on Squaw Island near the Kennedy compound at Hyannisport for three days. At the end of that time they had manufactured the story which Ted told on TV, and later at the inquest. Bob Cutler calls the story, "the shroud." Even the most cursory examination of the story shows it was full of holes and an impossible explanation of what happened. Ted's claim that he made the wrong turn down the dirt road toward the bridge by mistake is an obvious lie. His claim that he swam the channel back to Martha's Vineyard is not believable. His description of how he got out of the car under water and then dove down to try to rescue Mary JO is impossible. Markham and Gargan's claims that they kept diving after Mary JO are also unbelievable. The evidence for the Cutler scenario is substantial. It begins with the marks on the bridge and the position of the car in the water. The marks show that the car was standing still on the bridge and then accelerated off the edge, moving at a much higher speed than Kennedy claimed. The distance the car travelled in the air also confirms this. The damage to the car on two sides and on top plus the damage to the windshield and the rear view mirror stanchion prove that some of the damage had to have been inflicted before the car left the bridge. The blood on the back and on the sleeves of Mary JO's blouse proves that a wound was inflicted before she left the bridge. The alcohol in her bloodstream proves she was drugged, since all witnesses testified she never drank and did not drink that night. The fact that she was in the back seat when her body was recovered indicates that is where she was when the car hit the water. There was no way she could have dived downward against the inrushing water and moved from the front to the back seat underneath the upside-down seat back. The wounds on the back of Ted Kennedy's skull, those just above his ear and the large bump on the top indicate he was knocked out. His actions at the hotel the next morning show he was not aware of Mary JO's death until Markham and Gargan arrived. The trip to the pay phone on Chappaquiddick can only be explained by his receiving a call there, not making one. There were plenty of pay phones in or near Ted's hotel if he needed to make a private call. The tides in the channel and the direction in which Ted claimed he swam do not match. In addition it would have been a superhuman feat to have made it across the channel (as proven by several professionals who subsequently tried it). Deputy Sheriff Christopher Look's testimony, coupled with the testimony of Ray LaRosa and two Lyons girls, proves that there were two people in Ted's car with Mary Jo at 12:45 pm. The three party members walking along the road south toward the cottage confirmed the time that Mr. Look drove by. He stopped to ask if they needed a ride. Look says that just prior to that he encountered Ted's car parked facing north at the juncture of the main road and the dirt road. It was on a short extension of the north-south section of the road junction to the north of the "T". He says he saw a man driving, a woman in the seat beside him, and what he thought was another woman lying on the back seat. He remembered a portion of the license plate which matched Ted's car, as did the description of the car. Markham, Gargan and Ted's driver's testimony show that someone they talked to in the pitch black night sounded like Ted and was about his height and build. None of the above evidence was ever explained by Ted or by anyone else at the inquest or at the hearing on the case demanded by district attorney Edward Dinis. No autopsy was ever allowed on Mary JO's body (her family objected), and Ted made it possible to fly her body home for burial rather quickly. Kennedy haters have seized upon Chappaquiddick to enlarge the sexual image now being promoted of both Ted and Jack Kennedy. Books like "Teddy Bare" take full advantage of the situation. Just which operatives in the Power Control Group at the high levels or the lower levels were on Chappaquiddick Island? No definite evidence has surfaced as yet, except for an indication that there was at least one woman and at least three men, one of whom resembled Ted Kennedy and who sounded like him in the darkness. However, two pieces of testimony in the Watergate hearings provide significant clues as to which of the known JFK case conspirators may have been there. E. Howard Hunt told of a strange trip to Hyannisport to see a local citizen there about the Chappaquiddick incident. Hunt's cover story on this trip was that he was digging up dirt on Ted Kennedy for use in the 1972 campaign. The story does not make much sense if one questions why Hunt would have to wear a disguise, including his famous red wig, and to use a voice-alteration device to make himself sound like someone else. If, on the other hand, Hunt's purpose was to return to the scene of his crime just to make sure that no one who might have seen his group at the bridge or elsewhere would talk, then the disguise and the voice box make sense. The other important testimony came from Tony Ulasewicz who said he was ordered by the Plumbers to fly immediately to Chappaquiddick and dig up dirt on Ted. The only problem Tony has is that, according to his testimony, he arrived early on the morning of the "accident", before the whole incident had been made public. Ulasewicz is the right height and weight to resemble Kennedy and with a CIA voice-alteration device he presumably could be made to sound like him. There is a distinct possibility that Hunt and Tony were there when it happened. The threats by the Power Control Group, the frame-up at Chappaquiddick, and the murders of Jack and Bobby Kennedy cannot have failed to take their toll on all of the Kennedys. Rose, Ted, Jackie, Ethel and the other close family members must be very tired of it all by now. They can certainly not be blamed for hoping it will all go away. Investigations like those proposed by Henry Gonzalez and Thomas Downing only raised the spectre of the powerful Control Group taking revenge by kidnapping some of the seventeen children. It was no wonder that a close Kennedy friend and ally in California, Representative Burton, said that he would oppose the Downing and Gonzalez resolutions unless Ted Kennedy put his stamp of approval on them. While the sympathies of every decent American go out to them, the future of our country and the freedom of the people to control their own destiny through the election process mean more than the lives of all the Kennedys put together. If John Kennedy were alive today he would probably make the same statement. Back to top of the page up there ^ MultiQuote Reply -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I enjoyed reading that. I did not know of this Power Control Group angle but I could see it making sense. I've always thought that the Kennedy family knew who was behind the JFK hit and still know to this day. Possibly because of this threat, they don't want anyone to pursue it that's in power, like maybe when Bill Clinton was POTUS. So it begs me to ask, why so much hate for this family from the establishment and those that run the Power control Group(which is probably run by the CIA or other intelligence groups)?? What did the Kennedy's do that was so bad that they all must be eliminated? Maybe something we will never know. I wonder if this group still exists today in some way. It's interesting the way they described that no autopsy was performed on MJo and her body quickly buried. That's the same thing they did with JFK JR. The buried him @ sea which makes no sense. Wouldn't the family want the son buried in Arlington next to his father and mother? Looking back the best way they should have handled it is go public. Reveal this group, like people do today. Keeping it to yourself will probably get you killed. Exposing it with the Kennedy name behind them at that time may have been a good countermeasure.

Since we're sort of talking about figurines and art, I have a question for you all for something I've been trying to find for a while. Back in Elementary School, back in the mid 80s, schools I went to use to have a painting of both Lincoln and Kennedy, both profile shots, of them looking to the left. Lincoln was above Kennedy from the right hand upper corner, and then Kennedy below him going towards the left hand bottom corner. Anybody remember this? I tried to find it on Ebay and other places but cannot.

or the ghost of John Kennedy, who was RIGHT about Vietnam and wanted to get us out. If he lived, I believe we wouldn't have been in there. You could see his bust laughing at LBJ saying I TOLD YOU SO!

It's been said that JFK was probably the most wittiest President in the modern era, and maybe the closest to match or surpass the wit of Lincoln. If you see this whole speech on that morning in Ft.Worth, JFK deliveries one of his last and more memorable witty responses when he talks about how it feels similar going around Texas with Ms. Kennedy like in Paris. He says something to the effect 'Nobody Cares what Lyndon and I wear'. Room breaks out with laughter and you see the camera pan to LBJ, and he turns his head towards Lady Bird sort of smirking probably thinking to himself 'you got me again you son of a bitch'. You see Jackie console him a bit after the remark. JFK's last shot at LBJ I guess. Here it is, Start at 5:04 below http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWe6oqAyV50 Wish I had wit like him. I don't know who is a witty person these days anyway. Especially in politics.

If this is legit, would love to see that video. Keep us updated!

I think there was an inside joke during that segment you mention with the hat. It was maybe that JFK did not want to mess up his hair by putting the hat on, at least that's the impression I got when I saw it first. And sort of the crowd got that same impression too I guess.

Sort of a thread-jack here, but I never knew that that Ford could have been a VP of Reagan's when Ford already served as POTUS. Wouldn't that have been something! I found this article from 12 years ago discussing that and a 'co-presidency'. Talks how Bush got the VP selection. Very intriguing stuff. http://www.nytimes.com/2000/07/30/magazine/george-herbert-walker-bush-the-accidental-vice-president.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

Mr.Baker - analyze the experiment below and see where most of the blowback occurs from a bullet from the front exiting to the back.

That's nice you still have bookstores in your area. Where I live, they're pretty much extinct. I loved picking up a book out of the blue at the bookstore and browsing it eventually to buy it. Can't get that same experience online. Anyway....back to topic, will definitely be buying this based on your recommendations.