Tom Neal

Chris, Pardon the OT y'all, but since we're having some fun here... I have an acquaintance who claims he made it from 'no stripes' to '3 up and 2 down'; E-7, (if memory serves)...in ONLY 3 years. This occurred in the late 60's. I'm unfamiliar as to how long it takes for typical promotions in the USA. Come to think of it he just said "Army" - he didn't say *whose* army... After 3 years wouldn't he have been extremely lucky to have just made SGT on his way out the door? TIA, Tom

Glenn, FWIW, Bronze Oak Leaves = Major = O-4 I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess you were Navy??? Tom (former O-3 = ADM)

As the bullet enters the spheroid skull, the expanding pressure wave preceding it dramatically increases internal pressure until the skull ruptures. Prior to the skull rupture, we have a spheroid containing high pressure with a small hole approximately equal to the diameter of the intruding bullet. This small hole is inadequate in size to prevent an increase in internal pressure. Brain tissue, blood, fluid, etc. are expelled through the small bullet hole. This is analogous to the combustion chamber of a rocket engine in the sense that "thrust" is produced by the high velocity exit of mass from within the skull. Pardon the venture into Rocket Science 101, but this is the ONLY way to calculate the forces at work: THRUST = mdot Ve + (Pe - Po)Ae "mdot" = the change in mass of the head due to the ejection of blood, brain tissue, etc. "Ve" = the velocity of the ejected matter "Pe-Po" = the pressure within the skull - the ambient pressure "Ae" = the area of the bullet hole If you will provide the mass of the ejected matter via the entry wound, the velocity of this matter at the exit point, the existing pressure within the skull,and the area of the hole in his forehead, I will gladly calculate the thrust produced via the hole in JFK's forehead. This is a simple equation, requiring only multiplication, addition and subtraction. Finally, if you will provide the time interval over which this thrust occurred, I will gladly calculate the total force available to move the body rearward. Until you can calculate this total force, the velocity of his body movement following bullet entry is pure conjecture. Your statement that this "small orifice cannot possibly move an adult, much less reverse his forward movement." begs the following question: How much force IS required to "move" an adult. Did JFK's entire 180 lb. body actually move from one location to another (i.e. translate) or did he simply pivot at the waist (and neck)? The body from the waist up, pretty much balances atop the pelvis and this balance is maintained by various muscles. This man was brain dead-did his muscles oppose the movement? I don't know how much force is require to pivot the upper body, but my guess is, not much. Not identical of course, but more easily visualized: Stand on your "tip-toes" with your body as relaxed as possible - go to your 'happy place' - without warning someone applies a small to moderate force to your head. Will you lose your balance? If you don't react to recover you balance, I suspect you will topple over backwards. Next, what happens as the bullet exits the skull leaving another avenue of pressure release? Are you certain the bullet creates a small hole in the rear of the skull, and only then does the back of the head come off? Since the pressure wave precedes the bullets position, wouldn't the expanding pressure *ahead* of the bullet blow the rear of the skull off, *prior* to the arrival of the slower traveling bullet? Your statements numbered 2-5 can only be dealt with if we can reach a consensus regarding statement 1. Tom

Are you absolutely certain that the "back and to the left" movement is the "one" reason the Z film was not released? Hiding the limo "stop", hiding the interval between JFK and JBC's reaction to being hit by the same shot, the probable damage to the freeway sign, etc. would be adequate reasons... If so, then the hiding of the Z-film does NOT prove the violent motion *HAD* to occur. As Chris states above, alteration of the film could easily create this violent motion. Suppose what actually occurred was JFK went limp from the massive blowout of his brain when he was shot in the head. He could simply have collapsed backward, but not violently. If there was a shot from the front, why don't we see more blood and brain tissue? The trunk hood, and interior were covered. To remove the blood spatter or evidence of a front shot frames had to be excised. This would cause a speeding up of JFK's rearward motion. Additionally, most believe that the limo "stopped" until the head shot, and then immediately accelerated. This would also exacerbate his movement rearward. Tom

Bob, Great to have you back! Tom

I think Chris is exactly correct here. This section of the film was almost certainly altered, and IMO this was done to remove evidence of two almost simultaneous shots. Personally, I haven't decided *exactly* what was excised from the film at this point, but I'm convinced it does *not" represent reality. IMO there were 2 closely spaced headshots, one from the rear, and one from the front that impacted somewhat tangentially. i.e. The path of the bullet did not traverse the center point of JFK's head, it passed to the right of center with respect to JFK's body. Tom

Hi Don, For curiosities sake, are you referring to King's stories in general, or 11-22-1963 specifically? There were two episodes involving time travel and the assassinations of Lincoln and JFK: 1. There was a season 2 Twilight Zone episode titled "Back There" written by Rod Serling himself. A man (Russell Johnson aka the "Professor" from Gilligan's Island) who has been discussing the possibility of "time travel" with several friends suddenly finds himself back in 1865 on the day of Lincoln's assassination. He hurries to the theater to warn the President, but is arrested as a troublemaker. A gentleman who is known to the policeman offers to take charge of this poor confused fellow and prevent him from causing any trouble. The gentleman slips him a drugged drink, and departs. Later, when the man regains consciousness he returns to the theater to find that Lincoln has been shot in the head and the "gentleman" was John Wilkes Booth. The lesson of the episode: Even if you could travel back in time you couldn't change history. 2. The (1985) Twilight Zone series featured an episode ("Profile in Silver") where a descendant of JFK travels back in time to Dealey Plaza, and shouts a warning to the SS who save Kennedy from the assassination attempt. LHO is caught and arrested. Within days, the USSR attacks the US, and we discover that now that history has been changed it is Kruschev that was assassinated. The time travelers decide that to prevent further damage to the timeline, JFK must die. The descendant of JFK is substituted for the real JFK and dies from a gunshot to the head. JFK has been brought 'back to the future' where 'he is desperately needed' and continues his political career. This explains all the controversy regarding the assassination because those in 1963 have no idea why the assassinated JFK isn't JFK at all. Thus, they must hide the truth... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profile_in_Silver Here is part 1 of the episode which will automatically continue to parts 2 and 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1UkcPFyxiU Kennedy is rightly portrayed as a hero and Andrew Robinson does an outstanding job as JFK. An ironic comment is made by a SS agent regarding "drinking on duty" in part 3. Tom

That's a good thought, Mark. But their goal is to convince the public it's the TRUTH. Personally, I thought the book was a poorly written rip-off of a multitude of Twilight Zone wannabe TV series that have appeared over the years. The only character in the story that is not 100% cardboard is LHO. And he is 100% tissue paper. King claims he "researched" LHO at great length. If so, his "research" ended in 1964, and he waited 50 years to write the book.... And of course King states that he "has no agenda" in taking the Lone Nut side, because his wife believes in a conspiracy. Tom

Thank you, Douglas! Tom

Douglas, Thank you for this. I can't find David Talbot's Facebook page...do you have a link? TIA, Tom

Greg, In the interview transcript Hargraves makes it clear that 'the commies did it.' He may have agreed to the interview to push that story. Of course, once they get talking, they talk to each other as much as they talk to Twyman. It appears that they kinda forget he was there, and spill some interesting stuff as it occurs to them. Tom

IIRC, after LeMay repeated the remark, Kennedy's final words to him were: "Well, you're in there with me." Tom

My pleasure, Larry. There is no doubt in my mind that I will enjoy it! I don't see it available as an eBook... Did I miss it? As will I. Thanks Larry. Very interesting. Presumably, with the demise of both Gerry Hemming and Roy Hargraves there would no longer be any objections? I just re-read what was transcribed. This interview has always intrigued me, and I had no idea there was more... After a quick search online, I have found no indication that Noel Twyman is deceased. Do you suppose he would allow a transcription of the tapes by me for free? Tom

Chris, I believe you're talking about several small fragments received from Burkley. Sam Kinney states that the single skull part he handed to Burkley was equal in size to the large hole in the rear of Kennedy's skull. He has further commented that 'people have been looking for this for all these years...' Tom

Chris, Blaming only a LN, but with multiple shooters used to assure success, removing the body from Dallas for a controlled autopsy was mandatory and would have been pre-planned, as you've said. However, 'they' could have allowed the public to believe multiple shooters were used, and still blamed it on Castro/KGB/USSR. Do you think that the LN scenario was chosen because it's easier to kill one shooter than several? If the public believed any conspirator 'escaped' the pretense of a search/investigation would have to continue indefinitely. Rather than allow this, the additional complexity of a controlled autopsy would have been less of a risk. Absolutely. The police had to have a reason to go to the TSBD and find the weapon, so they could blame the designated patsy who worked in that building. The fact that Ruby had assured access to LHO while in custody, has never entirely convinced me he was chosen to silence LHO for that reason alone. Certainly DPD could have arranged access to LHO for anyone, or it could have easily been an inside job by them. I'm certain they had the 'talent' inhouse. If you had to bring in an outsider would Ruby have been the obvious choice? At the midnight press conference, DA Wade stated that LFO was affiliated with the wrong Pro-Castro group, and Ruby corrected him. How would Ruby have known about LHO and the FPCC if he wasn't in on the plot? For a considerable time, I have been convinced that Ruby was in on the plot, and like you, I suspect that Ruby was somehow responsible for unintentionally preventing LHO's elimination by the DPD. If true, this would certainly explain why Ruby would be willing to take out LHO: 'You do have a choice, Jack. You can either be a hero for killing the Presidents assassin, or be executed as a conspirator.' I can't convince myself that Ruby himself was supposed to kill LHO immediately following the assassination. Did Ruby perhaps provide the cop who failed to kill LHO after the assassination? Tom

Larry, When I read "2010 version" I hoped that was the one I already have. However, upon pulling it down from the shelve and discovering mine is the 2006 version, my first thought was: "GREAT! It will be like reading the 2006 version only with MORE info." For anyone who hasn't done so, this is one of a few MUST READ Kennedy assassination books. This a PDF of the Twyman/Hargraves interview for anyone that is interested: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=9&ved=0CDkQFjAIahUKEwi3ueGqn5vIAhVClh4KHWwMBqk&url=http%3A%2F%2Flarry-hancock.com%2Froy_hargraves_interview.pdf&usg=AFQjCNEauAqKFxpSv-x6CHOVQgSML37-zw&sig2=EkH7AVBb1fwFq2uBbYWsSw If you're allowed to say, who applied the pressure? Tom

Chris, Clint Hill stated that the back of JFK's skull was lying on the rear seat of the limo during his precarious ride to Parkland. The limo accompanied by two SS agents, was flown to DC in an Air Force C-130. During the flight Sam Kinney (driver of the Queen Mary) inspected the limo. On the rear seat he found this large piece of JFK's skull, which he was certain came from the back of his head. He further stated that he turned it over to his "close personal friend", Admiral Burkley. As far as I know, it was never seen again. Tom

Hi Greg, Do you have any thoughts as to what specific role ONI played in the assassination planning? I like that. It would have bypassed the Navy chain of command above Galloway to avoid any possible interference. IMO, some who know, keep quiet because they think JFK SHOULD have been murdered. Do you have an idea as to what organization is currently 'reminding' anyone who might talk as to the consequences of speaking out? Would this same organization decide when it is necessary to eliminate someone and make it happen? Thanks for your reply, Tom

Hello Chris, I may be misinterpreting you here... Your belief is that whether the original plan was to make the assassination appear to the public as a multiple-shooter conspiracy OR as a 'lone gunman', a 'controlled autopsy' was planned in advance? Do you think that the LN pretense was the original plan? Thanks for your reply, Tom

Sorry Jon, Due to the content of the many replies, I actually thought the subject of this thread WAS Bush v. Kerry. When Mark K. questioned the "relevance" I read the Subject and only then discovered my error. I already admitted "my bad" and don't want to continue to derail the discussion. Thanks for your response though, Tom

Evan, I too applaud Chris's attitude. I used to share it, but I'm no longer up to the task... Tom

Hi David, My humor meter is on the blink today... Just to be certain, I didn't say anything nasty to you, did I? Sorry

Hi Greg, Thanks for your reply! Re-reading my post, I should have left out the 7 Days in May reference, which indicates a coup entirely planned/executed by the military. My intended question ONLY pertained to the Navy's falsified autopsy. i.e. Was the Navy aware of and in agreement with the "intervention" (to use Senator McCain's terminology) assassination plot before it happened? Or were they only brought in by Johnson AFTER the assassination as part of the LN coverup? Assuming Galloway, who expired in 1992, was not in agreement with eliminating JFK, prior to his death wouldn't he have realized he was used in a cover-up? Following the lifting of the gag order and/or his retirement, why did he keep completely silent? Wouldn't he try to absolve himself of creating a falsified autopsy? Sorry for the confusion regarding the wording of my question, Tom

The clip from C14 (the FBI designation of the alleged assassination rifle) appears in two Commission Exhibits; CE 574 and CE 575. Interestingly enough, CE 574 is labeled "CLIP FROM C14 RIFLE LOADED WITH SIX CARTRIDGES" and CE 575 is labeled "CLIP FROM C14 RIFLE." If this is the same clip from the rifle, is it proper to present one clip in two different Commission Exhibits? If it's the same clip shouldn't both photos be in CE 575 to avoid confusion? Tom

LBJ 'persuaded' Richard Russell and Earl Warren to 'accept' their assignments to the WC claiming that a finding other than 'LHO the Lone Nut' would result in WWIII. Did he make the same claim to the USN presumably via the SECDEF, who passed this order down to the commanding officer at Bethesda, or did Johnson simply give an order to falsify the autopsy per Lone Nut requirements directly to RADM Calvin B. Galloway, commanding officer of the Naval Medical Complex? If neither of the above, the alternative seems to be a "Seven Days in May" military scenario. Were the Bethesda personnel acting on orders from the Chief of Naval Operations, ADM David L. McDonald, or RADM Galloway? To put it more succinctly, was the hospital acting on LBJ's orders given post assassination, or was it a Naval Operation planned prior to the assassination? Of course, as a prerequisite, the Navy would have expected LBJ's cooperation post autopsy in this scenario... Any takers? Tom